14 Dead, At Least 20 Injured As Bus Plunges Into Ravine In Nan

[elliss]

probably a hired mini bus

driven by one of the tachers

[ableguy]

So yet again time for baseless criticism of the driver and an appalling reason given by the police.

THis was a long week-end there are bound to be a lot of minibuses on the road

-Were they in a hurry? Had they encouraged the driver to make up time?Was the vehicle road worthy?Was the surface of the road up yo standard?.. almost certainly not!

Was there an effective barrier? - to this last one , one doesn't even have to look at the scene to say NO!!

I don't think I've seen a single piece of Armco or proper barrier set up anywhere in Thailand - basically if a vehicle leaves the road the only things to stop it are either concrete or trees - neither of which are of the remotes use to an out of control vehicle

Get real man, its the bloody driver.

[ableguy]

probably a hired mini bus

driven by one of the tachers

Ever seen a mini bus that seats 32 ?

[ginjag]

probably a hired mini bus

driven by one of the tachers

Ever seen a mini bus that seats 32 ?

No. true .but as you say seats 32. look at your 12 seater school bus, hanging out of windows -on top.-----But I agree with you a mini bus IS a mini bus...................a tour (rot tour) bus is the larger brother. as in this case. I just can't believe the statement --Un familiar with the road, police report.. what a sick statement/but maybe true. that is no excuse for any driver error. If that was the case

[agord]

probably a hired mini bus

driven by one of the tachers

Ever seen a mini bus that seats 32 ?

no but then again I never saw a scooter that seats 4-5 but here they are TIT

[Deeral]

So yet again time for baseless criticism of the driver and an appalling reason given by the police.

THis was a long week-end there are bound to be a lot of minibuses on the road

-Were they in a hurry? Had they encouraged the driver to make up time?Was the vehicle road worthy?Was the surface of the road up yo standard?.. almost certainly not!

Was there an effective barrier? - to this last one , one doesn't even have to look at the scene to say NO!!

I don't think I've seen a single piece of Armco or proper barrier set up anywhere in Thailand - basically if a vehicle leaves the road the only things to stop it are either concrete or trees - neither of which are of the remotes use to an out of control vehicle

Get real man, its the bloody driver.

Ut's sad even frightening to see the lack of understanding by some posters here.It makes you wonder what the accident rate is amongst expats, who clearly know nothing about either drivin or road safety.

[Deeral]

how many deaths before something is finally done, more guard rails, wider roads? this is a crying shame, two mishaps in one day.

Look the weekend was a long week-end the traffic was way up on normal and the roads cannot cope with the extra traffic.

I wish people could get realIf they want to see a change in the accident rates in Thailand it is not just the drivers that need to change.Anyone who thinks that is not even seeing half the picture.If you look at the stats for places like OZ and the US you'll see that they too have rather high accident rates com[pared to many European countries with denser traffic - ask yourself WHY???!?!?!!?

[ginjag]

So yet again time for baseless criticism of the driver and an appalling reason given by the police.

THis was a long week-end there are bound to be a lot of minibuses on the road

-Were they in a hurry? Had they encouraged the driver to make up time?Was the vehicle road worthy?Was the surface of the road up yo standard?.. almost certainly not!

Was there an effective barrier? - to this last one , one doesn't even have to look at the scene to say NO!!

I don't think I've seen a single piece of Armco or proper barrier set up anywhere in Thailand - basically if a vehicle leaves the road the only things to stop it are either concrete or trees - neither of which are of the remotes use to an out of control vehicle

Get real man, its the bloody driver.

Ut's sad even frightening to see the lack of understanding by some posters here.It makes you wonder what the accident rate is amongst expats, who clearly know nothing about either drivin or road safety.

For your ridiculous comments about ex pats not knowing anything about driving/ road safety. I therefore ban you forthwith from further comments of this nature. court dissmissed. Just to add-and I,m not bragging, I have netted up way over 1 million miles.....and hardly a scrape---maybe I,m lucky--in addition in Thai on a Thai licence car and m/c 200,000 kil. Are you one of the ex pats who clearly know nothing ??

[Deeral]

So yet again time for baseless criticism of the driver and an appalling reason given by the police.

THis was a long week-end there are bound to be a lot of minibuses on the road

-Were they in a hurry? Had they encouraged the driver to make up time?Was the vehicle road worthy?Was the surface of the road up yo standard?.. almost certainly not!

Was there an effective barrier? - to this last one , one doesn't even have to look at the scene to say NO!!

I don't think I've seen a single piece of Armco or proper barrier set up anywhere in Thailand - basically if a vehicle leaves the road the only things to stop it are either concrete or trees - neither of which are of the remotes use to an out of control vehicle

Get real man, its the bloody driver.

Ut's sad even frightening to see the lack of understanding by some posters here.It makes you wonder what the accident rate is amongst expats, who clearly know nothing about either drivin or road safety.

For your ridiculous comments about ex pats not knowing anything about driving/ road safety. I therefore ban you forthwith from further comments of this nature. court dissmissed. Just to add-and I,m not bragging, I have netted up way over 1 million miles.....and hardly a scrape---maybe I,m lucky--in addition in Thai on a Thai licence car and m/c 200,000 kil. Are you one of the ex pats who clearly know nothing ??

QED - your reply is a fine example of what I was talking about - thanks for your help.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Deeral

[richard_smith237]

In January of this year I took a bus from a local airport to our ski resort in the Alps - Minus temperatures, icy roads with fog, poor general visibility at night.... Not once did I worry or question the drivers speed, skill or capability. The only issue I did have was that the bus didn't have seat belts (which I would prefer to wear given the availability)....

I would not have taken this trip in Thailand. In fact I refuse outright to take bus or mini-van journeys. I can't remember the last time this was necessary. If I have to, I hire our own mini-van where the driver drives at our speeds.

I'm not suggesting that in this incident it was the bus drivers fault - there could have been a blowout. However, given the number of accidents and the speeds I've seen buses and other heavy vehicles traveling we can safely make the assumption that without any evidence to the contrary the driver was traveling beyond the limitation the conditions should otherwise dictate.

I can't see how the driver is not at fault.

And once again - Since the law was brought in (I'm not sure about large buses though) another accident where seat belts would / may have significantly altered the outcome for many.

RIP

[ginjag]

What the hell on earth are you talking about #126 and then your crazy remark about a firm but truthful reply #129.............your first comment was out of order your second comment was supposed to mean what, was it trying not to lose face ????? your other comments about the said subject ..attacking some posters comments about the driver are justified, the bibs comments on most of incidents here are outrageous.

[agord]

So yet again time for baseless criticism of the driver and an appalling reason given by the police.

THis was a long week-end there are bound to be a lot of minibuses on the road

-Were they in a hurry? Had they encouraged the driver to make up time?Was the vehicle road worthy?Was the surface of the road up yo standard?.. almost certainly not!

Was there an effective barrier? - to this last one , one doesn't even have to look at the scene to say NO!!

I don't think I've seen a single piece of Armco or proper barrier set up anywhere in Thailand - basically if a vehicle leaves the road the only things to stop it are either concrete or trees - neither of which are of the remotes use to an out of control vehicle

Get real man, its the bloody driver.

Ut's sad even frightening to see the lack of understanding by some posters here.It makes you wonder what the accident rate is amongst expats, who clearly know nothing about either drivin or road safety.

expats don't know how to drive? really? Most of us have had to go through proper training to get our license, my wife (Thai) doesn't even have a DL but drives every day. Thai driving is just plain scary! To me it seems like they think they are the ONLY ones on the road, not looking before pulling out, driving either way too fast or way too slow - most can't even keep their cars within the lane I think some think the yellow line is supposed to go in the middle of their cars

[gemini81]

how many deaths before something is finally done, more guard rails, wider roads? this is a crying shame, two mishaps in one day.

Look the weekend was a long week-end the traffic was way up on normal and the roads cannot cope with the extra traffic.

I wish people could get realIf they want to see a change in the accident rates in Thailand it is not just the drivers that need to change.Anyone who thinks that is not even seeing half the picture.If you look at the stats for places like OZ and the US you'll see that they too have rather high accident rates com[pared to many European countries with denser traffic - ask yourself WHY???!?!?!!?

well, I'm not the expert on road stats in Europe or the US or even Oz. Maybe I don't have enough free time to check up on such details.Two reasons may be the infrastructure in Europe which is great, second the terrain. just think how much greater land mass there is in OZ or the US. Sure the drivers are a factor too. put it all together, its easy to understand thailand's drivers and the budget for roads and infrastructure just arent there nor made a major priority.

As far as those commenting on foreign drivers, I got my license by doing it at jatujak like any thai (if you were driving on the left side in your native home, best to do the test). However many upcountry piad 500 baht extra and got a license if they failed. Lots of those folks on the road here! The driving skills overall are rather lacking here to say the least when it comes to logical road safety.

Edited February 26, 2011 by gemini81

[Nisa]

I think most tourists would not dare venture driving in a place like BKK because of the awareness and experience needed. I certainly have issues with the level of safety awareness for the general Thai driver but I am not ready to put down their skills in terms of awareness to other vehicles or their ability to handle a vehicle. However their knowledge of safety is certainly lacking awareness from even the most basic things westerners have drilled into their heads such as seat be;ts, drunk driving, following too closely and overtaking other vehicles in both a safe manner and safe location. Given this is an emerging nation the road conditions are also understandably bad from lack of signs (speed limit to stop signs) to a lack of engineering studies on things such as traffic congestion to banking or grading roadways. For the most part the highways are the exception.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Nisa

[ginjag]

I think most tourists would not dare venture driving in a place like BKK because of the awareness and experience needed. I certainly have issues with the level of safety awareness for the general Thai driver but I am not ready to put down their skills in terms of awareness to other vehicles or their ability to handle a vehicle. However their knowledge of safety is certainly lacking awareness from even the most basic things westerners have drilled into their heads such as seat be;ts, drunk driving, following too closely and overtaking other vehicles in both a safe manner and safe location. Given this is an emerging nation the road conditions are also understandably bad from lack of signs (speed limit to stop signs) to a lack of engineering studies on things such as traffic congestion to banking or grading roadways. For the most part the highways are the exception.

Your best post to date--good keep it up. No wonder deeral came under the hammer

[elliss]

probably a hired mini bus

driven by one of the tachers

Ever seen a mini bus that seats 32 ?

ever seen a motor bike ,

seating 4 .

:jap:

[Nisa]

ever seen a motor bike ,

seating 4 .

:jap:

When I first came here I was determined to get a picture of this for friends back home. Finally I got a picture while in a car and coming up beside the bike. Not more than 10 minutes after this (after putting the camera away) did we get passed at a light with a bike with 5 people on it. Probably better I didn't get a picture since 1 passenger was a baby. Shockingly funny but very sad when you see babies on bikes any time.

[farangbanok]

I must admit I get very bored with all the members who put denigrating Khon Thai even before bar-girls and beer.

Everywhere in the world there are good drivers and bad drivers not just in Thailand.

NYC Crash

To crash in a major city, with the bus skidding on its side, suggests excessive speed - haven't I read about that happening in TH also?

I guess we will now get a stream of posts - "Oh It must have been a Thai overseas worker driving!" or something of a similar ilk.

I read in one "bus crash" thread an arrogant pompous comment froma n "ex-rally" champion that rally drivers are perfect. - that is why Mike Parke died in Margam Park on the 2005 Wales Rally GB.(sadly about 26 minutes after I was speaking to him). If rally drivers were so absolutely perfect they would not nee "Driving Standards Observers" on the Road Sections!

Let's get real and accept that crashes can be caused by many factors, human, mechanical or Act of God. We are meant to be in TH to relax and enjoy life not spend all day every day. trying to find yet another anti-Thai whinge.

Let's just accept that TH has problems as have all nations, and wish all who perished both here and in the US a more satisfactory re-incarnation or to RIP.

[bangkokeddy]

I must admit I get very bored with all the members who put denigrating Khon Thai even before bar-girls and beer.

Everywhere in the world there are good drivers and bad drivers not just in Thailand.

NYC Crash

To crash in a major city, with the bus skidding on its side, suggests excessive speed - haven't I read about that happening in TH also?

I guess we will now get a stream of posts - "Oh It must have been a Thai overseas worker driving!" or something of a similar ilk.

I read in one "bus crash" thread an arrogant pompous comment froma n "ex-rally" champion that rally drivers are perfect. - that is why Mike Parke died in Margam Park on the 2005 Wales Rally GB.(sadly about 26 minutes after I was speaking to him). If rally drivers were so absolutely perfect they would not nee "Driving Standards Observers" on the Road Sections!

Let's get real and accept that crashes can be caused by many factors, human, mechanical or Act of God. We are meant to be in TH to relax and enjoy life not spend all day every day. trying to find yet another anti-Thai whinge.

Let's just accept that TH has problems as have all nations, and wish all who perished both here and in the US a more satisfactory re-incarnation or to RIP.

[jimbeam1]

I think most tourists would not dare venture driving in a place like BKK because of the awareness and experience needed. I certainly have issues with the level of safety awareness for the general Thai driver but I am not ready to put down their skills in terms of awareness to other vehicles or their ability to handle a vehicle. However their knowledge of safety is certainly lacking awareness from even the most basic things westerners have drilled into their heads such as seat be;ts, drunk driving, following too closely and overtaking other vehicles in both a safe manner and safe location. Given this is an emerging nation the road conditions are also understandably bad from lack of signs (speed limit to stop signs) to a lack of engineering studies on things such as traffic congestion to banking or grading roadways. For the most part the highways are the exception.

I'm not having a go. BUT you say emerging nation. Do you define emerging the same as third world? I may be wrong but to me emerging is defined as coming out? For that I would say that Thailand has at least another 40 to fifty years worth of emerging to do. So for my money still third world.

jb1

[jimbeam1]

I must admit I get very bored with all the members who put denigrating Khon Thai even before bar-girls and beer.

Everywhere in the world there are good drivers and bad drivers not just in Thailand.

NYC Crash

To crash in a major city, with the bus skidding on its side, suggests excessive speed - haven't I read about that happening in TH also?

I guess we will now get a stream of posts - "Oh It must have been a Thai overseas worker driving!" or something of a similar ilk.

I read in one "bus crash" thread an arrogant pompous comment froma n "ex-rally" champion that rally drivers are perfect. - that is why Mike Parke died in Margam Park on the 2005 Wales Rally GB.(sadly about 26 minutes after I was speaking to him). If rally drivers were so absolutely perfect they would not nee "Driving Standards Observers" on the Road Sections!

Let's get real and accept that crashes can be caused by many factors, human, mechanical or Act of God. We are meant to be in TH to relax and enjoy life not spend all day every day. trying to find yet another anti-Thai whinge.

Let's just accept that TH has problems as have all nations, and wish all who perished both here and in the US a more satisfactory re-incarnation or to RIP.

The vast majortity of Thais are incredibly bad, stupid drivers. If you don't think so just hang around any mojor road junction for a few minuets. I would agree with the Police that the driver was not acustomed with the road. But that still would not stop him from driving like a lunatic, or half asleep or pissed.

jb1

[ginjag]

I must admit I get very bored with all the members who put denigrating Khon Thai even before bar-girls and beer.

Everywhere in the world there are good drivers and bad drivers not just in Thailand.

NYC Crash

To crash in a major city, with the bus skidding on its side, suggests excessive speed - haven't I read about that happening in TH also?

I guess we will now get a stream of posts - "Oh It must have been a Thai overseas worker driving!" or something of a similar ilk.

I read in one "bus crash" thread an arrogant pompous comment froma n "ex-rally" champion that rally drivers are perfect. - that is why Mike Parke died in Margam Park on the 2005 Wales Rally GB.(sadly about 26 minutes after I was speaking to him). If rally drivers were so absolutely perfect they would not nee "Driving Standards Observers" on the Road Sections!

Let's get real and accept that crashes can be caused by many factors, human, mechanical or Act of God. We are meant to be in TH to relax and enjoy life not spend all day every day. trying to find yet another anti-Thai whinge.

Let's just accept that TH has problems as have all nations, and wish all who perished both here and in the US a more satisfactory re-incarnation or to RIP.

The vast majortity of Thais are incredibly bad, stupid drivers. If you don't think so just hang around any mojor road junction for a few minuets. I would agree with the Police that the driver was not acustomed with the road. But that still would not stop him from driving like a lunatic, or half asleep or pissed.

jb1

Idiotic remark by the police, no excuse, The passengers paid for a trip, to get them to arrive safely to the said destination, whatever happened They were helpless to do anything about it. To cut many of these type of incidents, better training of drivers-better instructions to operators, and better policing on traffic accident prevention.

[Nisa]

I think most tourists would not dare venture driving in a place like BKK because of the awareness and experience needed. I certainly have issues with the level of safety awareness for the general Thai driver but I am not ready to put down their skills in terms of awareness to other vehicles or their ability to handle a vehicle. However their knowledge of safety is certainly lacking awareness from even the most basic things westerners have drilled into their heads such as seat be;ts, drunk driving, following too closely and overtaking other vehicles in both a safe manner and safe location. Given this is an emerging nation the road conditions are also understandably bad from lack of signs (speed limit to stop signs) to a lack of engineering studies on things such as traffic congestion to banking or grading roadways. For the most part the highways are the exception.

I'm not having a go. BUT you say emerging nation. Do you define emerging the same as third world? I may be wrong but to me emerging is defined as coming out? For that I would say that Thailand has at least another 40 to fifty years worth of emerging to do. So for my money still third world.

jb1

Emerging, developing.... = above 3rd world but not first world. I think the terms used now are Developed, Developing and Under Developed

I believe Thailand is technically classified as a Newly Industrialized Nation but it is also a Developing Nation. I don't believe there are too many countries classified as Under Developed / Third World outside of Africa.

[jimbeam1]

I think most tourists would not dare venture driving in a place like BKK because of the awareness and experience needed. I certainly have issues with the level of safety awareness for the general Thai driver but I am not ready to put down their skills in terms of awareness to other vehicles or their ability to handle a vehicle. However their knowledge of safety is certainly lacking awareness from even the most basic things westerners have drilled into their heads such as seat be;ts, drunk driving, following too closely and overtaking other vehicles in both a safe manner and safe location. Given this is an emerging nation the road conditions are also understandably bad from lack of signs (speed limit to stop signs) to a lack of engineering studies on things such as traffic congestion to banking or grading roadways. For the most part the highways are the exception.

I'm not having a go. BUT you say emerging nation. Do you define emerging the same as third world? I may be wrong but to me emerging is defined as coming out? For that I would say that Thailand has at least another 40 to fifty years worth of emerging to do. So for my money still third world.

jb1

Emerging, developing.... = above 3rd world but not first world. I think the terms used now are Developed, Developing and Under Developed

I believe Thailand is technically classified as a Newly Industrialized Nation but it is also a Developing Nation. I don't believe there are too many countries classified as Under Developed / Third World outside of Africa.

Nisa, you use the terms I think and I believe? Newly Industrialised?Ok well we are all entitled to our own opinions. But what I see around me, plus what I read about, on a daily basis. Thailand with all it's corruption and poverty is still very much a Third World Nation, along with Cambodia, Laos and Burma. I am not knocking Thailand. I also call it home these days.

[Nisa]

I think most tourists would not dare venture driving in a place like BKK because of the awareness and experience needed. I certainly have issues with the level of safety awareness for the general Thai driver but I am not ready to put down their skills in terms of awareness to other vehicles or their ability to handle a vehicle. However their knowledge of safety is certainly lacking awareness from even the most basic things westerners have drilled into their heads such as seat be;ts, drunk driving, following too closely and overtaking other vehicles in both a safe manner and safe location. Given this is an emerging nation the road conditions are also understandably bad from lack of signs (speed limit to stop signs) to a lack of engineering studies on things such as traffic congestion to banking or grading roadways. For the most part the highways are the exception.

I'm not having a go. BUT you say emerging nation. Do you define emerging the same as third world? I may be wrong but to me emerging is defined as coming out? For that I would say that Thailand has at least another 40 to fifty years worth of emerging to do. So for my money still third world.

jb1

Emerging, developing.... = above 3rd world but not first world. I think the terms used now are Developed, Developing and Under Developed

I believe Thailand is technically classified as a Newly Industrialized Nation but it is also a Developing Nation. I don't believe there are too many countries classified as Under Developed / Third World outside of Africa.

Nisa, you use the terms I think and I believe? Newly Industrialised?Ok well we are all entitled to our own opinions. But what I see around me, plus what I read about, on a daily basis. Thailand with all it's corruption and poverty is still very much a Third World Nation, along with Cambodia, Laos and Burma. I am not knocking Thailand. I also call it home these days.

How about this:

FACT: Thailand is not a 3rd World Country

FACT: Thailand is classified as both a Newly Industrialized Nation and Developing Nation

FACT: Countries such as Ethiopia, Somalia and Afghanistan are considered 3rd World or Under Developed

[jimbeam1]

Nisa, How about this.

FACT?

FACT?

FACT?

Proof of FACT?

As I said before. We are all entitled to an opinion. I am very sorry I do not share yours.

jb1

Edited March 13, 2011 by jimbeam1

[Nisa]

Nisa, How about this.

FACT?

FACT?

FACT?

Proof of FACT?

As I said before. We are all entitled to an opinion. I am very sorry I do not share yours.

jb1

This is not an opinion but factual classification of countries. A simple internet search will clarify this for you.

But I am a bit baffled because you took offense and discounted what I said because I used the words "I believe" and then when I clarify to point out the "facts" you once again dismiss them as being opinion.

[jimbeam1]

Nisa, How about this.

FACT?

FACT?

FACT?

Proof of FACT?

As I said before. We are all entitled to an opinion. I am very sorry I do not share yours.

jb1

This is not an opinion but factual classification of countries. A simple internet search will clarify this for you.

But I am a bit baffled because you took offense and discounted what I said because I used the words "I believe" and then when I clarify to point out the "facts" you once again dismiss them as being opinion.

As far as I can see the only thing Thailand has that makes it an emerging nation is, the economy?

What keeps it Third World:

It's abuse of other nations subjects?

It's abuse of It's own subjects?

It's Public transport system?

It's poverty?

It's failure to compli even with other nations.

jb1

[marquess]

RIP to those who have lost their lives. I did some driving in this region about three months ago and found the mountain roads extremely treacherous, early morning usually meant mist, coupled with the gradient that meant extreme caution was required at every turn.

Edited March 13, 2011 by marquess

[Nisa]

Nisa, How about this.

FACT?

FACT?

FACT?

Proof of FACT?

As I said before. We are all entitled to an opinion. I am very sorry I do not share yours.

jb1

This is not an opinion but factual classification of countries. A simple internet search will clarify this for you.

But I am a bit baffled because you took offense and discounted what I said because I used the words "I believe" and then when I clarify to point out the "facts" you once again dismiss them as being opinion.

As far as I can see the only thing Thailand has that makes it an emerging nation is, the economy?

What keeps it Third World:

It's abuse of other nations subjects?

It's abuse of It's own subjects?

It's Public transport system?

It's poverty?

It's failure to compli even with other nations.

jb1

We are getting way off topic here but the way countries are classified is largely to do with economics and industry. However, you may not like things that you mention but if you were to compare any of them to an actual third world country then Thailand would look like a paradise. But the bottom line is being a developing nation or a third world/undeveloped nation certainly puts limits on infrastructure, qualify of life, corruption levels, government efficiency, poverty levels as well as quality of life of citizens. It just makes no sense in comparing these things to those of 1st World Nations or even those considerably higher on the "developing nation" list.

All the things you mention have seen significant positive developments in Thailand over the last couple decades but none can be changed over night as even first world nations continue to struggle with all these same areas.