Should There Be Tighter Restrictions On Thai Nationals Living Abroad ?

[tigerfish]

in regards to owning land, buying property, starting up a new business, visa requirements, maybe even receiving benefits and free health care in some cases.

[smokie36]

Why would anyone want to do that?

[jimbeam1]

Do you mean sort of tit for tat? If so you can only be talking about land ownership. Why should there be tighter restrictions for Thais than any other Nationalities?

jb1

[gotlost]

Do you mean sort of tit for tat? If so you can only be talking about land ownership. Why should there be tighter restrictions for Thais than any other Nationalities?

jb1

That's a start. Work, visas, etc. But this not only for Thais but all nationalities.

[jimbeam1]

Do you mean sort of tit for tat? If so you can only be talking about land ownership. Why should there be tighter restrictions for Thais than any other Nationalities?

jb1

That's a start. Work, visas, etc. But this not only for Thais but all nationalities.

Exactly

jb1

[bonobo]

In the US, foreign nationals help the country succeed. Almost 50% of all Ph.D's are granted to foreign nationals, and a good portion of them stay to work and contribute to the nation.

The people who can afford to get to the US and live there generally contribute more as a whole than they take away. And as a hopeful recipient of social security in the future, I like that they pay the witholding, but probably won't collect.

If Thailand doesn't want to grant foreigners the same rights as citizens, that is their problem. But as an American, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot in some sort ot tit-for-tat. In fact, I would open up the US to more foreign participation if I could.

[robblok]

Do you mean sort of tit for tat? If so you can only be talking about land ownership. Why should there be tighter restrictions for Thais than any other Nationalities?

jb1

Sure why not do it for Thais. No land ownership.. 5 nationals working in a company to get them a work permit. Only being able to hold 49% of the shares in companies.

Problem is only that the ones that hurt from that are not the ones who have any influence at all. But still it might be good to force the Thais a bit this way. But i highly doubt that it will ever happen.

[samran]

ah, so you mean reciprocal treatment?

I guess you are implying then that foreign visitors wanting to go on holiday to Thailand should be made to:

- stand in line outside an embassy for 4 hours waiting for an appointment they booked 4 months previously

- Need to produce evidence of their entire financial and social standing to get a visa

- Deal with a nasty arrogant big haired lady (aren't they all?) who will look at you, decide you are low class (probably a prostitute) and deny your visa

- Actually check if you have a conviction of any type and then ban you for life

If you are lucky to run than gauntlet, then on arrival in Thailand you'll be quizzed to see if you have sufficient funds, be told that your three month 'holiday' has turned into a 2 week visit cause no one takes three month holidays...and that your next visa run is out of the question as you won't be allowed re-entry.

Yep...I'm sure the TV brains trust would be all for reciprocation.

Serious answer though is that national governments decide what is in their best interest. Other countries, mainly in the west, have determined that it is in their national interests to have relatively free flow of capital, and to allow access to labour and realestate markets (subject to certain restriction).

But, don't be fooled. Contrary to what the Murdoch press may have you believe, being an immigrant in your home country is rarely easy. I'm sure the OP has actually examined what it would be like for him to migrate back to his home country. I'm sure he'd probably wouldn't qualify!

[GM1955]

ah, so you mean reciprocal treatment?

I guess you are implying then that foreign visitors wanting to go on holiday to Thailand should be made to:

- stand in line outside an embassy for 4 hours waiting for an appointment they booked 4 months previously

- Need to produce evidence of their entire financial and social standing to get a visa

- Deal with a nasty arrogant big haired lady (aren't they all?) who will look at you, decide you are low class (probably a prostitute) and deny your visa

- Actually check if you have a conviction of any type and then ban you for life

If you are lucky to run than gauntlet, then on arrival in Thailand you'll be quizzed to see if you have sufficient funds, be told that your three month 'holiday' has turned into a 2 week visit cause no one takes three month holidays...and that your next visa run is out of the question as you won't be allowed re-entry.

Yep...I'm sure the TV brains trust would be all for reciprocation.

Good points.

[doggie888888]

If Thailand reciprocated with half the "criteria" for entering and living in Australia, I think membership on Thaivisa would decline substantially. For one thing, many retirees will not be allowed to live here.

[robblok]

ah, so you mean reciprocal treatment?

I guess you are implying then that foreign visitors wanting to go on holiday to Thailand should be made to:

- stand in line outside an embassy for 4 hours waiting for an appointment they booked 4 months previously

- Need to produce evidence of their entire financial and social standing to get a visa

- Deal with a nasty arrogant big haired lady (aren't they all?) who will look at you, decide you are low class (probably a prostitute) and deny your visa

- Actually check if you have a conviction of any type and then ban you for life

If you are lucky to run than gauntlet, then on arrival in Thailand you'll be quizzed to see if you have sufficient funds, be told that your three month 'holiday' has turned into a 2 week visit cause no one takes three month holidays...and that your next visa run is out of the question as you won't be allowed re-entry.

Yep...I'm sure the TV brains trust would be all for reciprocation.

Serious answer though is that national governments decide what is in their best interest. Other countries, mainly in the west, have determined that it is in their national interests to have relatively free flow of capital, and to allow access to labour and realestate markets (subject to certain restriction).

But, don't be fooled. Contrary to what the Murdoch press may have you believe, being an immigrant in your home country is rarely easy. I'm sure the OP has actually examined what it would be like for him to migrate back to his home country. I'm sure he'd probably wouldn't qualify!

Valid points Samran but if i check how easy it was for my ex wife to own property and work or start her own business. Also a lot less paper and no yearly problems with immigration. Then i do feel things could be changed for the better. But like i said before it will probably never persuade the Thai government because they are not the one hurting if tit for tat is applied.

Im currently trying to get a visa for my wife to go to Holland for 16 days and that is hard too. Harder then for me to visit Thailand. But then again i cant leach on Thai government funds here as a tourist or someone in trouble while the other way around she could do that and get away with it in Europe. That is why they are more strict

[Berkshire]

I see the ulterior motive in the OP's thread, but I'll bite. Every country has a right to create laws pertaining to foreigners that is both fair and humane, AND protects the interest of its citizens. If, say, the USA were to create laws that were detrimental to foreigners, Thai or otherwise, said foreigners have the option of residing or not residing in the USA. They understand the laws, they make the decision. Simple enough.

It is exactly the same in Thailand.

[Berkshire]

ah, so you mean reciprocal treatment?

I guess you are implying then that foreign visitors wanting to go on holiday to Thailand should be made to:

- stand in line outside an embassy for 4 hours waiting for an appointment they booked 4 months previously

- Need to produce evidence of their entire financial and social standing to get a visa

- Deal with a nasty arrogant big haired lady (aren't they all?) who will look at you, decide you are low class (probably a prostitute) and deny your visa

- Actually check if you have a conviction of any type and then ban you for life

If you are lucky to run than gauntlet, then on arrival in Thailand you'll be quizzed to see if you have sufficient funds, be told that your three month 'holiday' has turned into a 2 week visit cause no one takes three month holidays...and that your next visa run is out of the question as you won't be allowed re-entry.

Yep...I'm sure the TV brains trust would be all for reciprocation.

Serious answer though is that national governments decide what is in their best interest. Other countries, mainly in the west, have determined that it is in their national interests to have relatively free flow of capital, and to allow access to labour and realestate markets (subject to certain restriction).

But, don't be fooled. Contrary to what the Murdoch press may have you believe, being an immigrant in your home country is rarely easy. I'm sure the OP has actually examined what it would be like for him to migrate back to his home country. I'm sure he'd probably wouldn't qualify!

Of course, you're right Samran. You can add a language requirement as well. But as usual, the OP and many of the TV readership are rather selective in the kinds of things that they view as unfair. If anything, Thai immigration is way too lenient in their visa policy. Which explains why we get so many dregs on our shores.

[bonobo]

Basically, traveling from a developing nation to a developed nation is harder than the reverse. But once you are there, it is easier to get treated more alike to the local citizens in a developed nation than in a developing one.

If I were the emperor of the world, I would make it easier for people to visit the US, EU, Australia, Canada, Japan, etc., but also make it easier for people to live in more restrictive countries for foreigners such as Thailand.

My business partner is probably worth 100x my net value. Yet because he is Thai and I am American, he has to jump through all sorts of hoops to get a visa to the EU whereas I get a free pass. And it is ironic that when we go, it is his final decision if we are going to spend millions of euros on German or Austrian-made machinery instead of Asian-made.

[tigerfish]

well ask a simple question on this forum and the usual suspects turn it into a mud slinging pissing contest.

but yes, as bonobo pointed out once in the country of choice in which the person chooses it then, can become a lot easier.

my wife of some years now, made a visa application to come to the U.K. after we first married and was granted a 2 year settlement within 5 days. down the line and after filling in more forms and paying a little more money she now has an indefinite leave of stay visa. the only restriction being that she cannot stay out of the country for no more than 2 years at a time without returning. she has a national insurance number and is able to work in which i urged her to pay her taxes on and pay national insurance. something which a lot of Thai nationals i know working in London do not do. thats their business and up to them if they get caught, but the benefits can be rewarding. ie tax rebates and health cover on the NHS. she can also buy property and own land if wanting to. also "if " we were to ever get divorced for whatever reasons the visa may not be revoked.

i also have other Thai family members who are married to foreign nationals. one is in N.Z., one living in the U.S. and another soon to marry a guy from England all of which have children from other relationships with Thai guys that have been granted visas to live or work in those countries and not only because they are the spouses of nationals from these places. the later has been allowed to come over to work, whilst being guaranteed by a family member already living in the u.k. and put her two children through the education system at the same time.

now flip it over onto the other side of the coin and see how many of those particular things that i have stated that i can do that easily over here in Thailand. me being married to a thai woman, having fathered a child over here who was born in this country.

but hey ! at least i have money in the bank from working back in the U.K. to enable me to get a visa and have been able to buy a family home and business even if its not in my name.

Edited February 23, 2011 by tigerfish

[Jingthing]

I think this kind of reciprocation is a bad thing. For example, a number of countries are matching the visa fees required of their nationals applying for US visas to their visas for US nationals, mostly tourists. That means raising the tourist visa fees to be very high. I think those countries are crazy as it just means they are scaring away a huge number of potential tourists over a kind of temper tantrum. In other words, I think this pisses off many Americans. It's OK if the tourist visa fee is one fee for everybody, but if it's 10 dollars for everyone and 200 for Americans, a lot of Americans are going to vote with their feet.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Jingthing

[Berkshire]

well ask a simple question on this forum and the usual suspects turn it into a mud slinging pissing contest.

"Ask a simple question".....that's one of the more disingenuous comments you've made. And that's saying a lot. Be honest Fish, you're not really asking a question. You're making a statement. And your statement is that you would like to get back at the Thai government by making life more difficult for all those Thais living overseas just because YOU don't believe you're being treated fairly in Thailand. Well boo-f*cking-hoo. You're singing the same old tired song. And guess what buddy, it will NEVER happen.

But to answer your "simple question," NO. Not only should it not happen, it won't happen. No country is going to single out Thais just because a bunch of whiney expats complain on TV that they're just, oh so freakin oppressed. Just like the Thais will not single out any particular nationality. A farang gets treated the same as a Korean or a Nigerian.

I hope I've answered your "simple question."

[Pacificperson]

Land ownership is a sensitive subject for many TV posters, but it is a Thai policy, and as such, it is up to the Thais. The US has places where land ownership is restricted to certain ethnic groups for public policy reasons. Some examples: Indian reservations, the territories of the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa, the Hawaiian Homelands and the Chamorro Land Trust on Guam.

[mca]

If anything, Thai immigration is way too lenient in their visa policy. Which explains why we get so many dregs on our shores.

Sorry for the off topic wander but Thai immi should introduce a V.S.A. ( visual scumbucket assessment )and anybody turning up for a visa or extension looking as if they slept in a skip should be shown the door. I'm not talking about rolling in dressed like James Bond on his way to a casino but if somebody's too frigging thick as the proverbial canine excrement to comprehend that a shirt undone to the waist revealing this whale blubber gut ( observed by my good self at NK once) isn't exactly showing respect to Thai folks and especially when going to immi for Christ's sake then that person is really too dumb to be breathing the same air as me.

Edited February 23, 2011 by mca

[MiG16]

I would be interested to hear what country the op comes from?

And what are the requirements to settle on a permanent basis - with the right to work- in your country?

Also, what are the conditions before a migrant can have access to benefits?

[robblok]

I would be interested to hear what country the op comes from?

And what are the requirements to settle on a permanent basis - with the right to work- in your country?

Also, what are the conditions before a migrant can have access to benefits?

MIG

In my country if you are married to a Dutch guy with income (so you can't claim benefits because he has income) and living space you can come over and live there (after your application is screened) from that point on you can work and own land start a business. Basically do whatever you want.

In my case my ex wife divorced me.. got a lawyer of the state (free) and got benefits from the state after divorcing me. While i had to pay for a lawyer. So here you have it.

I don't have many beefs but not being able to own land or the fact i cant own 100% shares in a company and i have to employ 5 Thais (even if i don't need them) are the things i dislike here. It does sting a bit if i look back at how my ex was treated in Holland and what kind of rights i have here.

[MiG16]

I wasn't thinking of a married couple. I see a lot of expats in Thailand. Not all are married to Thais. Infact a lot of the ones I know are not.

But somehow they have the right to work. So I would assume Thailand is not completely averse to migrants or foreign workers.

I doubt it would be equally easy for a Thai to obtain work permit for a country in Europe, USA or Australia to name some countries. Or even other countries in Asia for that matter.

[JurgenG]

ah, so you mean reciprocal treatment?

I guess you are implying then that foreign visitors wanting to go on holiday to Thailand should be made to:

- stand in line outside an embassy for 4 hours waiting for an appointment they booked 4 months previously

- Need to produce evidence of their entire financial and social standing to get a visa

- Deal with a nasty arrogant big haired lady (aren't they all?) who will look at you, decide you are low class (probably a prostitute) and deny your visa

- Actually check if you have a conviction of any type and then ban you for life

If you are lucky to run than gauntlet, then on arrival in Thailand you'll be quizzed to see if you have sufficient funds, be told that your three month 'holiday' has turned into a 2 week visit cause no one takes three month holidays...and that your next visa run is out of the question as you won't be allowed re-entry.

Yep...I'm sure the TV brains trust would be all for reciprocation.

Serious answer though is that national governments decide what is in their best interest. Other countries, mainly in the west, have determined that it is in their national interests to have relatively free flow of capital, and to allow access to labour and realestate markets (subject to certain restriction).

But, don't be fooled. Contrary to what the Murdoch press may have you believe, being an immigrant in your home country is rarely easy. I'm sure the OP has actually examined what it would be like for him to migrate back to his home country. I'm sure he'd probably wouldn't qualify!

I get your point

But once you're in, you're treated the same way locals are

My gf can own land in Europe, USA, Australia ... But as a foreigner, in Thailand, I can't.

The OP has a point, if I had the power I would lobby my government to deny Thai citizens the right to own land or run companies until Thailand gives us the same rights.

Edited February 23, 2011 by JurgenG

[jdinasia]

ah, so you mean reciprocal treatment?

I guess you are implying then that foreign visitors wanting to go on holiday to Thailand should be made to:

- stand in line outside an embassy for 4 hours waiting for an appointment they booked 4 months previously

- Need to produce evidence of their entire financial and social standing to get a visa

- Deal with a nasty arrogant big haired lady (aren't they all?) who will look at you, decide you are low class (probably a prostitute) and deny your visa

- Actually check if you have a conviction of any type and then ban you for life

If you are lucky to run than gauntlet, then on arrival in Thailand you'll be quizzed to see if you have sufficient funds, be told that your three month 'holiday' has turned into a 2 week visit cause no one takes three month holidays...and that your next visa run is out of the question as you won't be allowed re-entry.

Yep...I'm sure the TV brains trust would be all for reciprocation.

Serious answer though is that national governments decide what is in their best interest. Other countries, mainly in the west, have determined that it is in their national interests to have relatively free flow of capital, and to allow access to labour and realestate markets (subject to certain restriction).

But, don't be fooled. Contrary to what the Murdoch press may have you believe, being an immigrant in your home country is rarely easy. I'm sure the OP has actually examined what it would be like for him to migrate back to his home country. I'm sure he'd probably wouldn't qualify!

Of course, you're right Samran. You can add a language requirement as well. But as usual, the OP and many of the TV readership are rather selective in the kinds of things that they view as unfair. If anything, Thai immigration is way too lenient in their visa policy. Which explains why we get so many dregs on our shores.

Absolutely ---- people that are often marginal at home (but financially rather fit for Thailand) forget that many many Thais will never even get a tourist visa (that most of us don't need to visit here) much less any other type of visa. Green card for the US to work in your own business? Rough. Here all you need is about 1 year's wages and to provide social security benefits to 4 Thais for the most part ...

BUT --- Thailand does make it rough on some people that are legitimately married to stay together here and that should be corrected.

[StreetCowboy]

Top troll post! Well done!

I interpreted it as "Should Thailand impose restrictions on foreigners living overseas with respect to various rights and privileges..." and wondered if it was a way of provoking colour-based political bickering over whether foreign Thais (i.e. Geordies) should be allowed to be PM, or whether emigrants on the run from the law should be prevented from obtaining healthcare under the 10B scheme...

... and then turning that round as an attack on the spongers who go back for the NHS dentures and heart bypasses and hip replacements... or support for them, I wasn't sure which. Anyway, I have no opinion on that.

I believe that some US states do not allow foreigners to own land, and therefore Taiwan, which exercises reciprocity, will only allow US residents of certain states to own property there. The things some people believe, eh? Is there no end to gullibility?

By "Thai Nationals living abroad" do you mean in general, or specifically in the UK? and why specifically Thai Nationals, and not others - Uzbekhistanis, Indians, Americans, Manxmen?

Anyway, like you, TF, I shall retire to a safe distance while the touch paper sparkles...

SC

[JurgenG]

why specifically Thai Nationals, and not others - Uzbekhistanis, Indians, Americans, Manxmen?

\

Because this forum is about Thailand

And because a lot of us living in Thailand suffer discrimination when it comes to running a company or owning the house we live in.

You try to be funny but you just show you know nothing about our problems.

Retire to a safe distance, better for everybody

[MSingh]

In the US, foreign nationals help the country succeed.

You tell that to the Native Americans..

[jdinasia]

why specifically Thai Nationals, and not others - Uzbekhistanis, Indians, Americans, Manxmen?

\

Because this forum is about Thailand

And because a lot of us living in Thailand suffer discrimination when it comes to running a company or owning the house we live in.

You try to be funny but you just show you know nothing about our problems.

Retire to a safe distance, better for everybody

When any person from your home country can enter Thailand without effort but the reverse isn't true, then you don't have discrimination and instead have different levels of protectionism at a national level by countries.

[StreetCowboy]

why specifically Thai Nationals, and not others - Uzbekhistanis, Indians, Americans, Manxmen?

\

Because this forum is about Thailand

And because a lot of us living in Thailand suffer discrimination when it comes to running a company or owning the house we live in.

You try to be funny but you just show you know nothing about our problems.

Retire to a safe distance, better for everybody

Pretty pretty sparkles!

So you reckon different laws should apply to Thais in the UK than to Manxmen, or Chinese Republicans, or Cambodians? Now that would be discrimination; to apply restrictions uniformly to all foreigners is protectionism. We (Tigerfish and I) are lucky enough to have grown up in one of the most open and welcoming societies in the world, and protectionism and discrimination are anathema to us - free markets based on gunboat diplomacy helped our forefathers create the modern economy and paint the world pink. Our former now-republican colonies across the water in Ireland and further afield have prospered thanks to the rule of common law and rights to property that were established many centuries ago. Sadly, most Thais have yet to see the benefits of that global economic miracle because of the near-feudal social mores that apply here, and the bureaucratic and ill-thought protectionist nationalist regulations. To be honest, it was a mistake for us to establish our office here, based on hype and hubris, but hindsight is no way to drive forward...

Anyway, I really feel for your problems, and I share your pain.

SC

[bina]

well, lets try my country:

no thais whatsoever living here as immigrants if they arent married to someone here, or diplomats (or born here to 'legally employed/visa parents' (we are now as of today deporting quite a large amount of children (born after a certain date) with parent (who are here w/o visa/permit to stay since they left their employment, or arrived illegally w/o entrance permits etc).

any thais here are all on work visas that are employer specific and sector specific (if u have a visa for agriculture u cannot work in a restaraunt ,ever. no way to change over.). ; there is one group of wealthyish thais students here on a work/study visa and trust me, they are tracked everywhere.

visa permit to stay extensions are given for various amounts of time depending on if u can prove your relationship with your partner, u pay taxes, rent/own your living quarters offically and legally, u dont receive any financial aide (welfare), and u can get local adult (steady working)proof of your relationship ... i have a friend that has to do this aout every two months...after five years of steady proof, AND progressive language skills, he/she may get a citizenship. if not, then every year or every 3-6 months the visa process has to be done again, with the understanding that it can be revoked at any time.

buying land?!! youve got to be kidding! if u dont have two sane people to sign for your on any contracts, unless u pay in cash, there is no land/no house. might not even get to rent in a normal neighbhorhood.

the only way to get here is to work in agriculture or be a christian thai and come over on a travel tour of the holyland.

wanna reciprocate?

bina

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