Why Bother Learning A Foreign Language?

[rijb]

Couldn't resist an update ... iPhone universal speech translator

[Dave9000]

If you are not entirely sure of the validity of learning Thai, it will become clear the first time your Thai wife becomes really ill. Conversational Thai which will serve you in the supermarket is no match for describing symptoms by phone or requesting medical assistance from a non english speaking Thai. Equally, trying to communicate by proxy through a Thai with conversational english is frustrating and potentially dangerous for the person who is ill. A mis-description or a wrong numerical value could be dire.

Such circumstances can truly redefine vulnerability in a foreign world.

David

[zzaa09]

Couldn't resist an update ... iPhone universal speech translator

Nice. But unfortunately, items of this nature tend to offer high limitations - in this case, languages.

[rijb]

An Android version is getting good reviews ... by language learners.

In these days, a man who says a thing cannot be done is quite apt to be interrupted by some idiot doing it.

- Elbert Hubbard

[RickThai]

I would think that the mobile translators would be an aid and an incentive to learn a new language. With instant feedback, you would certainly have an opportunity to learn the language in realtime.

Also, trying to learn a different language, opens up your mind for appreciation of the evolutionary culture of the people who speak the language.

While trying to learn to read and write Thai, who hasn't thought about how the language was formalized by the Royalty and his scholars in that long ago time?

[bifftastic]

To be literate is one of the goals of a civilised society.

Myth and delusion. The greater goal of a civilised society is to mindlessly consume. Then, one has to consider what "civilised" might be.

I disagree, literacy and the benefits of it are what could be described as a goal. Mindless consumption is not a goal. It may well exist but seeing as it's mindless, it can't be a goal. More of a symptom of something debilitating.

[StreetCowboy]

To be literate is one of the goals of a civilised society.

Myth and delusion. The greater goal of a civilised society is to mindlessly consume. Then, one has to consider what "civilised" might be.

I disagree, literacy and the benefits of it are what could be described as a goal. Mindless consumption is not a goal. It may well exist but seeing as it's mindless, it can't be a goal. More of a symptom of something debilitating.

Mindless drunkenness can be a goal, so I don't see why mindless consumption could not.

How does one measure the greatness of a goal, in any case? I've seen some great goals, though Johnny WIlkinson's world-cup winning goal of 2006 must rank amongst the greatest. Possibly the greatest goal of any civilised society.

WIlknson: "...and to win the world cup, I just kicked the ball over the bar"

Beckham (thinks):"...kick...ball...bar...over"

It was funnier with the illustration...you'll need to use your imagination.

This might be a link to it... I can't access youtube here to confirm

SC

[Samuian]

it wil certainly not take anymore 40 years.... even google or babylon can't get it perfectly right now - they soon will!

till then I prefer to stick to the "global communications language" - english!

Edited September 19, 2011 by Samuian

[rijb]

Google Translate Hits the Books, Now Supports 14 Languages for Real-Time Chats

demo link

Edited October 17, 2011 by rijb

[Ulysses G.]

 

If I were a young stripling I would give due consideration to learning Chinese rather than Thai. I feel the payback would be far greater.

If you wanted to live in China, this would certainly be true, but I much rather live in Thailand and speak Thai.

[StreetCowboy]

it wil certainly not take anymore 40 years.... even google or babylon can't get it perfectly right now - they soon will!

till then I prefer to stick to the "global communications language" - english!

till then I prefer to stick to the "global communications language" - Pointing.

SC

[Ijustwannateach]

There are all kinds of technical/linguistic problems of machine translation when you consider what goes into 'language.' I remember using one of those internet translation programs once to see what would happen with English and Japanese (not dissimilar from Thai in many ways):

Q(Japanese): Are you going back home soon?

Translated Q (English): Is it returning to the house now?

One of the problems is that in the Japanese context, the question didn't need a subject- it was implied by the existence of the asker and answerer. However, in English, we spell all of that stuff out with pronouns (quite redundantly, from the point of view of many other languages, including Thai). Also, there is a verb in Japanese which more or less includes the 'home', thus the odd translation of 'returning to the house'. And the verb conjugation in Japanese for 'doing now' can also imply the near future. Unless the translation program is fairly artificially intelligent, there's no automatic way to parse this into a correct translation in all the possible situations the question might be used.

And, getting back to the 'Star Trek Translator' idea, when I'm snuggling up to someone I care about, and want to tell them so, I would want us to be looking at each other- not at our phones.

[roamer]

An Android version is getting good reviews ... by language learners.

In these days, a man who says a thing cannot be done is quite apt to be interrupted by some idiot doing it.

- Elbert Hubbard

Oh really ? Would like to know who/what/where etc. I love my HTC Desire and I'm in awe of some of the things it allows me to do. However, I will grow old before it masters the tones in Thai. Quite apart from that, any application developed for Android or computer, whatever the flavour, will always resort to some form of phonetic language that is a fools path to learning Thai.

[IanForbes]

Why speak to ANYBODY? Just grunt and point... and possibly say "You Jane, me Tarzan. We boom boom".

[StreetCowboy]

...when I'm snuggling up to someone I care about, and want to tell them so, I would want us to be looking at each other- not at our phones.

You're living in the past, you are. An old-fashioned dinosaur, like the rest of us.

Apparently young people, when they are snuggling up to one another, post about it on facebook

SC

[angeledge]

In my opinion, this is the strangers effort to learn to speak the place he lives language and this, even if he can live properly with the simple use of english.

Is it not insulting when you are in your own country and can not serve the client with the place language? At some point, the are going to understand when you are a tourist. But after seeing you for a while dont making any effort in learning their language, it is going to become more like an insult in their culture.

Examples: in usa, there is almost as many americans who speaks english than mexicans who speaks spanish. Those mexicans dont have to learn the country language anymore. Is it not insulting for americans? Yes, it is and they are right.

In Canada, muslims can go vote with their masks in their face and even, take official pictures with this. Is it not insulting knowing that a regular canadian who just smile on his passport picture will be rejected. Of course, it is.

I Am from the province of Quebec, where everyone is french and i can tell you, this is insulting to hear someone telling you he wont learn french because he can live properly using english in Montreal.

There is also a major thing a translator will never be able to replace. Your capacity to negociate and you gain a way more credibility when you do it yourself than using a machine to speak for you.

As a new expat in thailand (living here since 2 months and a half) i can order food and have simple welcoming words in thai. I do this by respect for them and also for their culture. Many are happy and have fun teaching me new words.

[Forethat]

...when I'm snuggling up to someone I care about, and want to tell them so, I would want us to be looking at each other- not at our phones.

You're living in the past, you are. An old-fashioned dinosaur, like the rest of us.

Apparently young people, when they are snuggling up to one another, post about it on facebook

SC

Yo, old guy!! You mean Twitter....

/Dino

[geriatrickid]

There are an increasing number of scholarly articles discussing the clinical evidence that the knowledge of 2 or more languages delays the onset of alzheimers. Considering the fact that age related dementia will afflict many Thai expats, the knowledge of additional languages should prove to be a significant health asset as well.

[kerryk]

There are an increasing number of scholarly articles discussing the clinical evidence that the knowledge of 2 or more languages delays the onset of alzheimers. Considering the fact that age related dementia will afflict many Thai expats, the knowledge of additional languages should prove to be a significant health asset as well.

You make a good point. What do you do when you get old and forget where you put your electronic translator? If you speak the language no problem.

[WebBangkok]

I think its better to learn the language rather than the translator making an error from "Say Hi to your mum for me " to "Say f@#$ you to your mum for me "

[StreetCowboy]

I think its better to learn the language rather than the translator making an error from "Say Hi to your mum for me " to "Say f@#$ you to your mum for me "

You've obviously been watching the Monty Python sketch about the Hungarian(?) Phrase Book published with intent to cause a breach of the peace.

"My hovercraft is full of eels"

SC

EDIT: To be honest, you are more likely to make an apparently minor error in the tones yourself, and accidentally say "arse" instead of "your honour"... or something

Edited October 18, 2011 by StreetCowboy

[Gaccha]

There are all kinds of technical/linguistic problems of machine translation when you consider what goes into 'language.' I remember using one of those internet translation programs once to see what would happen with English and Japanese (not dissimilar from Thai in many ways):

Q(Japanese): Are you going back home soon?

Translated Q (English): Is it returning to the house now?

One of the problems is that in the Japanese context, the question didn't need a subject- it was implied by the existence of the asker and answerer. However, in English, we spell all of that stuff out with pronouns (quite redundantly, from the point of view of many other languages, including Thai). Also, there is a verb in Japanese which more or less includes the 'home', thus the odd translation of 'returning to the house'. And the verb conjugation in Japanese for 'doing now' can also imply the near future.

>snip<

So there was I thinking it can't be that bad now...

Just tried to use Google Translate from Japanese to English

もうすぐ帰るの？

becomes

"The back soon!"

It even got the punctuation wrong....

>>facepalm<<

[MrJohnson]

been all over the world and never needed to speak any language other than English.

There are various computer languages that are worth knowing.

I always struggled with languages. In high school I was required to take Spanish and Latin. My grandmother spoke only German at home and my grandfather when drunk prattled on in Gaelic. My oldest daughter married and moved to Quebec and everyone spoke in her home spoke French. I was a young grandfather due to a youthful indiscretion and realized French speaking strippers responded better when I spoke French. My second daughter went to college in Japan and that further propelled my families multi language skills. It did not strike me as odd learning Thai and Lao while trying to teach Thai children the vagaries of English.

My personal struggle against old age has been assisted by learning Thai and hanging around with young Thai people.

However I would encourage your one language attitude. Less competition for me. I don't care how young and good looking you are. Women are addicted to communication. More than big muscles or a full head of hair women need to talk.

I don't mean to imply I speak fluent Thai because I don't. I was in a Thai hospital full of Thai people who did not speak English. I knew how to say in Thai "stomach, explode and now" (appendicitis). I kept yelling "stomach explode now" in a loud voice. It got me to the head of the line.

Marky - good point you raise. I have always found the 'stomach explode now' to be a very useful turn of phrase, especially when at the tail of the toilet queue!

[rijb]

Ortsbo 2Go for iPad, iPhone and iPod touch lets you communicate in more than 50 languages, including Thai, via Facebook Chat. free app

[Ijustwannateach]

There are all kinds of technical/linguistic problems of machine translation when you consider what goes into 'language.' I remember using one of those internet translation programs once to see what would happen with English and Japanese (not dissimilar from Thai in many ways):

Q(Japanese): Are you going back home soon?

Translated Q (English): Is it returning to the house now?

One of the problems is that in the Japanese context, the question didn't need a subject- it was implied by the existence of the asker and answerer. However, in English, we spell all of that stuff out with pronouns (quite redundantly, from the point of view of many other languages, including Thai). Also, there is a verb in Japanese which more or less includes the 'home', thus the odd translation of 'returning to the house'. And the verb conjugation in Japanese for 'doing now' can also imply the near future.

>snip<

So there was I thinking it can't be that bad now...

Just tried to use Google Translate from Japanese to English

もうすぐ帰るの？

becomes

"The back soon!"

It even got the punctuation wrong....

>>facepalm<<

Ha ha! Right. Reading the Japanese, it translates in romanised phonemes as 'mou sugu kaeru no?' The 'mou' is like 'already' or 'more'. The 'sugu' means 'soon'. The 'kaeru' implies 'return home' or 'back to the house'. 'No' is a particle which indicates an informal question.

So you could arrange the words in English perhaps as 'Pretty soon go back?' Notice there's no subject and no object. The subject would be implied by the existence of a hearer to whom the question would be directed. The location of the object is included in the verb (which implies home unless otherwise stated).

Me (in casual conversation, not with a business associate): Go back soon?

You (a person I know who has a home): Back.

One would need to know the context of the speakers to construct the English sentence with subjects and verbs. We also leave out words in the equivalent conversations, but not the SAME types of words:

Me: (Are you going) Home soon?

You: Yeah, (I am leaving) pretty much (soon).

Even this one short example shows how much awareness is needed of not only linguistic and grammatical issues, but also cultural and colloquial issues, to accomplish true translation.

[theblether]

We're hundreds of years away from any language, most likely English, Mandarin, Arabic or Hindi from becoming the sole language of the world. In the meantime learning a foreign language at any age is good for your self confidence, brain power, and most importantly social interaction.