Why Bother Learning A Foreign Language?

[SamBolsty]

been all over the world and never needed to speak any language other than English.

There are various computer languages that are worth knowing.

Good for you, but wouldn't it be better to talk to people in their own language when you're in their country?

This is not a popular view in Bradford, Southall and Tower Hamlets in the UK. I understand that the most common language in use in Florida these days is Spanish and I have heard that is not easy to find a taxi driver in NYC that understands English - or the US version of it.

English is the second language in LoS and as I am considered a second class citizen (or worse) I feel that I am unworthy to use the language of the superior beings native to these parts. In these technological times it is necessary to have a grasp of the language of those bringing forth new innovations and concepts unless of course you follow the French example and invent new French words. Is there any more descriptive language than English with so many synonyms to express shades of meaning? Is there such a thing as a Thai thesaurus?

We retirees recognise that by the time we are at a conversational level in such a basic language we may well be carted off to the wat and sent up a chimney i.e. it would be a pointless exercise. Furthermore what would provide the greater benefits to communication in Thailand? Thai? Lao? Khmer? I choose to spend some of my time teaching the younger members of my family good English as I feel that that is a better use of the time I have left.

If I were a young stripling I would give due consideration to learning Chinese rather than Thai. I feel the payback would be far greater.

Same old stuff about second class citizen (or worse) I've never been treated like that. Not wanting to sound rude, but to all you who say this over and over again. It must how you act. I don't know what it is, but I do see many Farangs walking around as if they're better than every-one and shouting orders at Thais. My guess is you people who feel like you are treated as second class citizens act in this manner.

If I lived in China I would learn Chinese (I might still). Being as I spent a year in Thailand, I learned Thai. 1 word a day, thats all it takes, seriously, before you know it you're stringing sentences together, (perhaps people would treat you better if you made the effort too. (I'm not too keen on people living in England who can't speak English).

As you are living in Thailand I'm sure learning Thai would have greater payback than learning Chinese. ??

[geronimo]

We are light years away from that!

[zzaa09]

We are light years away from that!

Sad...isn't it?

[Tod Daniels]

Fer christ's sake, they're STILL struggling with OCR (Optical Character Recognition) technology in regards to the Thai Language; so I am pretty sure a 'speak and spell' or a "Star Trek Universal Translator" is light years into the future. Even Google Translates, which in theory should be 'self-correcting' (if people bothered to correct the errant translations), totally bites for all but the most rudimentary things.

Personally, I can't really see a down side to learning to speak Thai, even if you don't wanna learn to read, (which you really do, as the entire country comes alive)! At last count I believe there're about 64+ million native Thai speakers here, but that's just me.

FWIW: when people say; oh where I live they speak dialects like; Northern Thai Dialect (ภาษาภาคเหนือ), Issan Dialect (ภาษาอีสาน), Taechew Dialect (ภาษาแต้จิ๋ว), Western Thai Dialect (ภาษาภาคตะวันตก), Southern Thai Dialect (ภาษาภาคใต้) or insert the Thai Dialect of your choice here (_______), lol. .. I always shake my head and take 'em with a grain of salt. Yes they MIGHT speak that to each other, but I've YET to come across a Thai under the age of about 55 who couldn't speak Central Thai ( also known as Bangkokian Thai or (ภาษากลาง). After all, it's the government 'approved' language. And that means it’s the “official” language. It’s taught in EVERY school in the country, spoken by EVERY newscaster on t/v, and by every 'official' radio station.

In all my travels around this country (and I've traveled quite a bit here); I've NEVER come across a person who couldn't understand or speak Central Thai (even if they spoke it with an accent that wasn't Bangkokian).

I did see a guy the other day who was using a "speak & spell" (BTW: that's an American toy from LONG ago ) trying to order chicken fried rice at a shop and believe me, it made me cringe to watch, actually pathetic.

I have noticed that "talking dictionarys" of the long haired variety seem more common these days, then again they cost much more (as far as upgrades) than even the cheapest battery operated one..

Still I think the advantages of learning Thai (if you live here) far outweigh being able to speak any of the following listed languages;

"2-word-tourist-thai"

"horse-peak" (figure that out for yourself! )

"pidgin engrish"

Then again your mileage may vary!! Still, an interesting thread.. ..

Edited March 20, 2011 by tod-daniels

[IanForbes]

Ah, quit trying to confuse us with the facts, Tod. Let us stumble along in our misery so we have more to complain about.

[oshoshitzu]

been all over the world and never needed to speak any language other than English.

There are various computer languages that are worth knowing.

Obviously, you have not been to france

Edited March 24, 2011 by oshoshitzu

[Loz]

The thing about language is that it carries culture. If you understand a language you have a better chance of understanding comedy, class conflicts, stereotyping, prejudice and other useful traits of the locals. If all you can do is directly translate your own language and culture, you'll find it harder to integrate and get along with locals. But if that's not your goal, my comments are at best, academic.

[Loz]

We are light years away from that!

Not for nothing, but light years measures distance, not time.

[AlexLah]

Believe it or not I have somewhere on one of my HD a report about voice recognition SW that was/is able to translate spoken Thai into English including many of the dialects. This program is only available for government and was tested more then ten years ago if I remember well.

Another thing I have a few years ago was a device from a German company the size of a walkman that was able to translate from spoken Thai to English and vice versa and when making a picture of a sign in written Thai to translate it.

Most if not all of phone calls made the conversations are recorded and analyzed on key words, phrases and certain patterns.

[roamer]

Believe it or not I have somewhere on one of my HD a report about voice recognition SW that was/is able to translate spoken Thai into English including many of the dialects. This program is only available for government and was tested more then ten years ago if I remember well.

Another thing I have a few years ago was a device from a German company the size of a walkman that was able to translate from spoken Thai to English and vice versa and when making a picture of a sign in written Thai to translate it.

Most if not all of phone calls made the conversations are recorded and analyzed on key words, phrases and certain patterns.

As you say believe it or not. I choose not.

[nisakiman]

The thing about language is that it carries culture. If you understand a language you have a better chance of understanding comedy, class conflicts, stereotyping, prejudice and other useful traits of the locals. If all you can do is directly translate your own language and culture, you'll find it harder to integrate and get along with locals. But if that's not your goal, my comments are at best, academic.

Succinctly put and very true.

Unless you learn the language of your host country, you will never do more than scrape the surface of the place. Language communicates so much more than words. To learn another language successfully, you must adopt the mindset of that culture for it to make sense. And by so doing, you will start to understand what makes the people what they are. And why they do what they do.

I don't care how good the software on our hypothetical translating machine is, it will never deliver true meaning. Not like knowing the language.

[bifftastic]

I'm learning Thai because, primarily, it fascinates me. I like learning languages. It stimulates my brain and gives me a sense of achievement. I also do not like sitting in a group of people who are all talking and, I don't understand a word of what they're saying! It also gives a feeling of independence if you can go anywhere and talk to anyone.

As Tod says, even though there are many dialects, everyone who went to school can speak central Thai and even if they can't, what they do speak isn't a million miles away from it so they'll understand you, once they get past the 'I don't understand....it looks like a farang...but it's got Thai coming out of it's mouth' thing

I also don't like people who come to my country and refuse to learn the language. Fair enough if you're just on holiday, but even then, a few phrases would be respectful. If you're coming for any length of time, you just won't get by without it. Well, you'll get by, but whoever is translating for you will be 'getting by' a lot better than you will and at your expense!

Anyway, it's all by the by really, if some people don't want to learn another language, up to them. I do it because I like it.

[qwertz]

Why bother? Don't bother!

I've made a good living the past 30 years as an interpreter and translator.

I hope nobody learns the languages I worked hard to learn, it will perpetuate job security

for everyone in my profession. BTW, there is not and will not be for a long time to come,

a computer that can translate or interpret as accurately and instinctively as the human brain.

Don't believe me? Google your translation and watch it spit out nonsense!

Edited March 25, 2011 by qwertz

[bifftastic]

Why bother? Don't bother!

I've made a good living the past 30 years as an interpreter and translator.

I hope nobody learns the languages I worked hard to learn, it will perpetuate job security

for everyone in my profession. BTW, there is not and will not be for a long time to come,

a computer that can translate or interpret as accurately and instinctively as the human brain.

Don't believe me? Google your translation and watch it spit out nonsense!

Sorry, I didn't understand any of that, can you get someone to translate it for you?

[carmine]

I'm learning Thai because, primarily, it fascinates me. I like learning languages. It stimulates my brain and gives me a sense of achievement. I also do not like sitting in a group of people who are all talking and, I don't understand a word of what they're saying! It also gives a feeling of independence if you can go anywhere and talk to anyone.

As Tod says, even though there are many dialects, everyone who went to school can speak central Thai and even if they can't, what they do speak isn't a million miles away from it so they'll understand you, once they get past the 'I don't understand....it looks like a farang...but it's got Thai coming out of it's mouth' thing

I also don't like people who come to my country and refuse to learn the language. Fair enough if you're just on holiday, but even then, a few phrases would be respectful. If you're coming for any length of time, you just won't get by without it. Well, you'll get by, but whoever is translating for you will be 'getting by' a lot better than you will and at your expense!

Anyway, it's all by the by really, if some people don't want to learn another language, up to them. I do it because I like it.

i agree with you and their no questioning the fact that if you learn the language you will feel a greater part of things and Thais will respect you for doing so.

[jimbeam1]

... English is the second language in LoS ...

I doubt that one, but am ready to stand corrected if the statement is supported by proper source. I suspect Chinese might be the one that deserves the the... Besides, to many native Citizens, Thai-language itself would be a second language. We don't even have to go to Issan for that. My wife is from Phrae and her native tongue certainly isn't Thai.

There was a topic here a few weeks ago. I think in the news section. Where it was stated that Thailand refused to accept it as it's second language. I think Chinese was the prefered option. Although English is taught in schools. TIT

jb1

[mstribling]

I enjoy learning Thai as I can interject it into any Thaivisa topic to try and add to my credibility.

" so the subject in nuclear particles. I understand this because I speak Thai. Some people were on an elevator, but because I can speak Thai I knew how to operate the lift. "

Never under estimate the power of the Thaivisa.

[BangrakBob]

It would be a shame to go through life and not learn another language.

[pjclark1]

If I lived in China I would learn Chinese (I might still). Being as I spent a year in Thailand, I learned Thai. 1 word a day, thats all it takes, seriously, before you know it you're stringing sentences together, (perhaps people would treat you better if you made the effort too.

Which Thai language did you learn?

Which Chinese language would you choose to learn?

[shaggy1969]

I find it unbelievable that people would move to another country and not at least ' try ' to learn that countries language.How would you feel if you were in your own country and a foreigner came up to you and started talking in a language that you did not understand? i think that you would probably get very annoyed !

I am not saying that it is easy to learn a 2nd or 3rd language,but if you do not try then you will never know....and that is such a shame because you will miss out on so much that is happening around you.I know this because i moved to Holland 12 years ago and for the 1st 3 years i thought to myself that i do not need to learn Dutch because everyone can speak English,yes they could speak English...but why should they? after all i was a guest in their country....i am not say that i speak perfect Dutch now by any means , but i am no longer an outsider and have become a foreman at my work (couldn't of done that only speaking English).

I am now trying to learn Thai/Lao,and omg it makes my headache ...especially trying to get to grips with the tones !!! but as the saying goes...he who dares wins

As for a computer translator...well in my opinion you can put that where the sun don't shine,give me good old fashioned face to face talking any day. (but that is just my opinion)

[StreetCowboy]

If I lived in China I would learn Chinese (I might still). Being as I spent a year in Thailand, I learned Thai. 1 word a day, thats all it takes, seriously, before you know it you're stringing sentences together, (perhaps people would treat you better if you made the effort too.

Which Thai language did you learn?

Which Chinese language would you choose to learn?

My understanding is that there is only one Chinese language, written with two scripts, traditional and modern, and spoken in many hundreds or thousands of diverse dialects.

For the spoken language, most foreigners prefer to learn the official putonghua dialect, derived, I believe from the beijing dialect, and similar enough to the guoyu dialect used in official circles in Taiwan, or the hanyu dialect which is the official chinese dialect in Singapore, I believe. Those three are close enough to the original beijing dialect that they are referred to in English by the common term 'mandarin'.

A significant minority of foreigners, though, learn cantonese, which is the predominant dialect in English chippies, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Canada, though in the latter three, English is also widely spoken.

SC

[SamBolsty]

If I lived in China I would learn Chinese (I might still). Being as I spent a year in Thailand, I learned Thai. 1 word a day, thats all it takes, seriously, before you know it you're stringing sentences together, (perhaps people would treat you better if you made the effort too.

Which Thai language did you learn?

Which Chinese language would you choose to learn?

I learned Thai. As in Thai (paasaa gaang). I don't know anything about Chinese when I do I'll let you know.

[SamBolsty]

If I lived in China I would learn Chinese (I might still). Being as I spent a year in Thailand, I learned Thai. 1 word a day, thats all it takes, seriously, before you know it you're stringing sentences together, (perhaps people would treat you better if you made the effort too.

Which Thai language did you learn?

Which Chinese language would you choose to learn?

I learned Thai. As in Thai (paasaa gaang). I don't know anything about Chinese when I do I'll let you know.

[qwertz]

Why bother? Don't bother!

I've made a good living the past 30 years as an interpreter and translator.

I hope nobody learns the languages I worked hard to learn, it will perpetuate job security

for everyone in my profession. BTW, there is not and will not be for a long time to come,

a computer that can translate or interpret as accurately and instinctively as the human brain.

Don't believe me? Google your translation and watch it spit out nonsense!

Sorry, I didn't understand any of that, can you get someone to translate it for you?

So sorry, that was English - if you let me know which words baffle you I will gladly elucidate.

[JurgenG]

My understanding is that there is only one Chinese language, written with two scripts, traditional and modern, and spoken in many hundreds or thousands of diverse dialects.

For the spoken language, most foreigners prefer to learn the official putonghua dialect, derived, I believe from the beijing dialect, and similar enough to the guoyu dialect used in official circles in Taiwan, or the hanyu dialect which is the official chinese dialect in Singapore, I believe. Those three are close enough to the original beijing dialect that they are referred to in English by the common term 'mandarin'.

A significant minority of foreigners, though, learn cantonese, which is the predominant dialect in English chippies, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Canada, though in the latter three, English is also widely spoken.

SC

Agree with you, Mandarin (putonghua) is the language to learn. I remember seeing in Singapore (the "nanny" state) big posters everywhere urging people to "Learn Mandarin". For Chinese abroad, first generation immigrants usually speak the dialect of their province of origin but nowadays if they speak/lean Chinese it's Mandarin. The new immigrants speak mostly Mandarin.

Regarding Cantonese, even if there is a strong movement in Hong Kong and Guangdong to defend this dialect, I don't think it's very useful to learn it. Even among the long term expats, vervy very few can speak the language.

[JurgenG]

Now is it useful to learn a foreign language ? As a foreign company established in Asia for more than 20 years, we went trough three phases. First we hired foreigners who can speak the local languages, them we hired local who can speak english. Then we realized that by hiring people based on their language abilities, we excluded a lot of local talents, especially in technical fields. Basically we were hiring smooth talkers instead of the professional we needed. So now, for a foreigner to be hired/promoted at a local management level, he has to speak the local language. And vice-versa if a local want to be promoted to an international management level, he has to speak english.

In our company, there is a girl who can speak fluently 4 foreign languages. She has the biggest desk in our company. Her job ? She greets visitors and answer the phone.

My point ? Speaking a foreign language is not an advantage by itself, but on top on other qualification, it can help make the difference.

I just remember a funny anecdote. A friend of mine who had just finished two years in China learning Mandarin went for a job interview. When the recruiter asked her what was her qualifications for the job, she answered she can speak fluently Chinese. The guy acknowledged but asked again the question, two times. Both times she answered she can speak fluently Chinese. Then the guy said "there is one billion people who can speak Chinese, so what are your qualifications ?"

She didn't get the job ...

Edited April 3, 2011 by JurgenG

[bifftastic]

Now is it useful to learn a foreign language ? As a foreign company established in Asia for more than 20 years, we went trough three phases. First we hired foreigners who can speak the local languages, them we hired local who can speak english. Then we realized that by hiring people based on their language abilities, we excluded a lot of local talents, especially in technical fields. Basically we were hiring smooth talkers instead of the professional we needed. So now, for a foreigner to be hired/promoted at a local management level, he has to speak the local language. And vice-versa if a local want to be promoted to an international management level, he has to speak english.

In our company, there is a girl who can speak fluently 4 foreign languages. She has the biggest desk in our company. Her job ? She greets visitors and answer the phone.

My point ? Speaking a foreign language is not an advantage by itself, but on top on other qualification, it can help make the difference.

I just remember a funny anecdote. A friend of mine who had just finished two years in China learning Mandarin went for a job interview. When the recruiter asked her what was her qualifications for the job, she answered she can speak fluently Chinese. The guy acknowledged but asked again the question, two times. Both times she answered she can speak fluently Chinese. Then the guy said "there is one billion people who can speak Chinese, so what are your qualifications ?"

She didn't get the job ...

That's a very good point, language is a skill that, by itself, is only useful for communicating. But in the example you quoted, if the person had the necessary skills for the job, but could not speak to any of her colleagues, she probably still wouldn't have got the job! That, of course, depends on what the job is.

Irrespective of jobs, language acquisition is a good thing, in my opinion. It sharpens the mind, broadens understanding, not only linguistically but on other levels too. It also allows you to be independent. To be literate is one of the goals of a civilised society, so why invest all that time in your own education in your home country to become literate, only to move somewhere else and instantly become illiterate?

[rijb]

I think "young striplings" are much more open to using technology for communication, than taking the time/effort to learn a new language. Some might even say they're addicted to technology (see below).

Is real-time translation technology possible? Not sure if I would of thought the iPad was possible when I started working with mainframes in 1979.

Student 'addiction' to technology 'similar to drug cravings', study finds

Samsung Mobile Display

Real-time language translation on Obama's 25 Ways To Rebuild America

Edited April 10, 2011 by rijb

[StreetCowboy]

I think "young striplings" are much more open to using technology for communication, than taking the time/effort to learn a new language. Some might even say they're addicted to technology (see below).

Is real-time translation technology possible? Not sure if I would of thought the iPad was possible when I started working with mainframes in 1979.

Student 'addiction' to technology 'similar to drug cravings', study finds

Samsung Mobile Display

Real-time language translation on Obama's 25 Ways To Rebuild America

I don't know how I could live without my slide rule

SC

[zzaa09]

To be literate is one of the goals of a civilised society.

Myth and delusion. The greater goal of a civilised society is to mindlessly consume. Then, one has to consider what "civilised" might be.