Scene Of Accident

[tomahawk]

I was driving northbound on Maejo Road in Chiang Mai when I saw guy fly off motorbike in southbound lane. I know people say to keep driving but I could not live with myself if I did, and plus I did not know if anyone would stop to help. I am no doctor but I am retired from law enforcement and have witnessed many injuries, Also have certification in first aid from red cross so I thought at least maybe I could help until ambulance arrived. Other people did stop to help and also people came out from factory nearby. Victim was young male, teens or early twenties. he was wearing helmet but it fell off on impact. He had blood coming from his nose and forehead. His knees and hands were scraped up, and he was semi-conscious. it was very hot and could not find something to cover him, but put shoulder bag behind his head. He tried to raise up but I told him to lie still. Luckily there was Thai man on scene with walkie-talkie and he called ambulance. Two nurses showed up, and both of them did nothing except wave smelling salts under victims nose. They did nothing to check his pulse, injuries or anything. What was worrisome to me was he never moved his legs at all, and when I asked him if he could feel anything when I pushed his legs, he did not answer, but perhaps he could feel and was just in shock or something. Ambulance showed up and as this is busy highway cars kept coming. I flashed my retired police badge and stopped traffic so ambulance could get to victim, but was not sure people would not just run me down. Anyway they didnt and the ambulance left. I hope the guy is okay. I never did see what caused accident.

One bad point of this episode to me is how poorly trained these nurses seemed to be. It does not make one feel very confident of what will happen if one has an accident. I am glad I stopped, even though i did not really do anything. Not surprisingly, no one said thank you or anything at all, but I am just glad I did not get charged with causing the accident.

[gotlost]

You did the correct thing. Hope the individual is OK.

[appropriate]

Good work. You did pretty much all you could. You can sleep well tonight (hopefully).

Not surprisingly, no one said thank you or anything at all,

After five years here it really does astound me that Thais have this view of themselves as kind, compassionate, friendly, superior people.

Amazing.

Edited February 25, 2011 by appropriate

[Thongkorn]

Well done , maybe If i was in your position I would have done the same , You just have to be carefully.It would be a sad world if every body just walked on by with out as much as a "are you OK".

[WarpSpeed]

Red cross certified and you propped his head up knowing he had head injuries and contact with the pavement?? What about the distinct possibility of a cervical fracture? Your intentions were good hearted but that course of treatment was not ...

Please people next time for the persons benefit and your own, help out but do not touch the victim unless you're certain of your skills or without your intervention the person will die, like possibly bleeding out... Give advice to others and treat shock etc. but maybe the nurses knew a thing or two at least they didn't prop up his head with a potential neck injury..

Edited February 25, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[IanForbes]

Red cross certified and you propped his head up knowing he had head injuries and contact with the pavement?? What about the distinct possibility of a cervical fracture? Your intentions were good hearted but that course of treatment was not ...

Please people next time for the persons benefit and your own, help out but do not touch the victim unless you're certain of your skills or without your intervention the person will die, like possibly bleeding out... Give advice to others and treat shock etc. but maybe the nurses knew a thing or two at least they didn't prop up his head with a potential neck injury..

The OP did the right thing. A reasonably comfortable accident victim won't thrash around and further injure themselves. The OP DID say he just propped up the victim to keep him from moving. And yes, the nurses WERE inadequate if they did nothing but put smelling salts under his nose.

I've got industrial first aid training and know what i"m talking about. While working in logging camps I was the first aid attendent and had to deal with many nasty accidents. I've seen doctors who treated accident victims worse than I would have. I can go into a long rant of details but won't. All I can say is to give my congrats to the OP for being a caring individual.

[WarpSpeed]

No he didn't, the victim need not move at all he did that for him, just moving a persons head and neck without support can cause serious injury and permanent paralysis if the neck is fractured and then there is also the point of fact that while the neck is propped up it has pressure on it and that too can cause further injury.

Why don't you do some google on how to properly treat possible neck injuries before coming on here and spewing uninformed gobbledygook.. Reasonably comfortable? Rubbish.....

JFYI Emergency medicine has moved forward from the 50's and I'm a certified EMT thank you very much..

Don't try to turn my post around either, I mentioned his heart was in the right place..

Edited February 25, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Here, decided to Google it for you since you seem too adverse to taking my word for it..

Causes

Anything that puts too much pressure or force on the head, neck, or back can result in injury. Common causes are falls, accidents, and hard blows.

Treatment

If you suspect a head, neck, or back injury, you must keep the head, neck, and back perfectly still until emergency medical care arrives. Any movement of the head, neck, or back could result in paralysis or death.

Immobilize head and neck only

As if I wrote it myself....... I'd say that bleeding from the nose and forehead and his helmet coming off is a pretty clear indicator of head impact and injury, and further he mentions later the youth not being able to move his legs, <deleted> what more convincing do you need? Please, if I have a head or neck injury and you're around just don't touch me I'll take my chances ...

Edited February 25, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[glomp]

Im sure the random dudes throwing him up on the back of the "ambulance" pickup fixateded his neck ok. If the pickup has that carrying a lady paint on and some red and blue stickers it's an ambulance right?

[tomahawk]

Thank you for kind words. About neck injury, I think problem here is I did not explain fully. Victim was raising his own head off ground, so I put bag behind his head. I did not raise up his head myself, as I know this is bad practice.

[IanForbes]

It's been a good and valuable topic that everyone should know, and I thank Warpspeed for backing up what he said by mentioning GOOGLE. I think we are at cross purposes here and don't understand fully what others have said. We are all in agreement that the victim should be moved as little as possible. But, sometimes you DO have to move a victim to protect them from futher hazards. We were taught to ALWAYS take your OWN safety into account FIRST. That is especially true around power lines and poisonous gasses. Many rescuers have died going to the aid of some victim.

[Tonto21]

Tomahawk,

You get a thumbs up from me, for stopping and doing what you could to help the guy. As for administering first aid…. Well, It’s a mine field isn’t it? What’s seen as best practice today, will be deemed to be unsafe practice tomorrow…..and back again!

That’s why first aid is a continual learning curve, but fact is, you were there, you stepped up to the plate and did what you could.

As of your comment on the nurses, fact is they may not have been nurses, well not in the traditional sense, (general nurses) you know with this being Thailand and one thing Thailand has is people/labor. Walk into any one hospital here and you’ll see more “staff” walking around in nursey type uniforms than the UK’s NHS has staff has on it’s book! They may have been clerical staff, bed pan jockeys or “keepers of the smelling salts!”

Having said that. Hats off to you for helping, well done.

[tuky]

Good job mate.

Slightly off topic but this is my experience.

I came off my bike in Indo a few months back and a bunch of people stopped to help.

Apparently I had lost consciousness for a while and when I came too I also had blood all over my face and my mouth was full of blood soaked dirt.

I found my phone and called my missus, she came to help me and cleaned me up. When I got my sesnes back I noticed that all those that came to help didn't do a things except help themselves to parts from my bike. All I basically had left was a frame.

Anyway, I was taken to hospital in a taxi and discharged about 30 minutes later and told all was OK, no broken bones no injuries. 1 month later I was still in huge amounts of pain, trouble breathing and suffering from vertigo ( I would sometimes fall over whilst walking on a flat road).

I ended up taking myself to a real hospital where they informed me I had broken my nose, cracked my skull (I was wearing a helmut) broken three ribs, broken my right thumb and cracked a bone in my left foot.

As 1 month had already passed the injuries were all but healed so it was too late to do anything to make much of a difference.

So becareful folks. Not all people are good people, not all medical personnel are competant.

[appropriate]

When I got my sesnes back I noticed that all those that came to help didn't do a things except help themselves to parts from my bike. All I basically had left was a frame.

Thais, a lovely Jai Dee people.

[saorsa]

I crashed my bike on sukhumvit a few weeks ago and was left lying unconscious for 20 mins before my friend found me lying in the middle of the street with my bike still on top of me...that guy was lucky you turned up as Thai's will just leave them there.

[GM1955]

When I got my sesnes back I noticed that all those that came to help didn't do a things except help themselves to parts from my bike. All I basically had left was a frame.

Thais, a lovely Jai Dee people.

Hate to disappoint a Thai basher like you but I thought Tuky lived in Indonesia.

[appropriate]

^ Must be an Asian thing then.

Lovely considerate people.

[GM1955]

I crashed my bike on sukhumvit a few weeks ago and was left lying unconscious for 20 mins before my friend found me lying in the middle of the street with my bike still on top of me...that guy was lucky you turned up as Thai's will just leave them there.

You were on the busy Sukhumvit road with a bike on top of you and nobody stopped or assisted until the gallant Farang appeared 20 minutes later.

Were you wearing a ThaiVisa T-Shirt ?

The sheer amount of anti Thai rantings on this forum could have been the reason nobody helped you if you were.

Edited February 26, 2011 by GM1955

[whynot?]

had an accident once-stupid Thai lady slammed into the side of my truck-no helmet no mirrors and didn't look before she turned into me-I have emergency med training-she was ok except for road rash-the first thing the paramedics did (after I spent 30 min calming her down) was roll her over and rub alcohol on her rash-freaking morons-started her screaming again-I'd rather die than let these dumb f''ks have a go at me

[bprinceuk]

Well done Tomahawk, you have a good heart and also the courage to commit to your principles and beliefs

[GM1955]

-I'd rather die than let these dumb f''ks have a go at me

Of course you would.

Then again, it would be the ultimate anti Thai gesture, good luck with it.

Edited February 26, 2011 by GM1955

[H2oDunc]

Well done to the OP for stopping and helping and doing what he could to assists the victim. it was all going well till

" I flashed my retired police badge and stopped traffic so ambulance could get to victim "

<deleted>!!!!

Just what is a " Retired police badge " when its at home ? I presume it isn't a Thai police badge so just what did the OP think people would do when seeing it ?

Reality check !

YOU ARE NO LONGER A COPPER!

YOU ARE FARANG !

Maybe they should issue the ex SAS, SBS, delta force, CIA with these cards so we can verify the guys who tell us they are EX

[Garry]

Thank you for kind words. About neck injury, I think problem here is I did not explain fully. Victim was raising his own head off ground, so I put bag behind his head. I did not raise up his head myself, as I know this is bad practice.

What you did was commendable tomahawk, but if you ever come across that situation again, try and gently stop the injured from moving, more so if they do have suspected spinal / neck / head injury. Sometimes the injured don't realise what they are doing and could further injure themselves. .

[WarpSpeed]

But, sometimes you DO have to move a victim to protect them from futher hazards. We were taught to ALWAYS take your OWN safety into account FIRST. That is especially true around power lines and poisonous gasses. Many rescuers have died going to the aid of some victim.

Of course, I didn't see it mentioned that his life was in danger in any way though and that being the reasoning behind propping his head up but merely for comfort sake and that's what I responded to for the benefit of others as future reference...

I still wouldn't use something as thick as a back pack but maybe just a small towel folded, T shirt, etc. for heat barrier and minimal padding against the hard pavement..

Irregardless how the EMT's or whomever else treat them the key is YOU (even if not farang) do not want to be seen treating such injuries improperly..

Edited February 26, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Well done to the OP for stopping and helping and doing what he could to assists the victim. it was all going well till

" I flashed my retired police badge and stopped traffic so ambulance could get to victim "

<deleted>!!!!

Just what is a " Retired police badge " when its at home ? I presume it isn't a Thai police badge so just what did the OP think people would do when seeing it ?

Reality check !

YOU ARE NO LONGER A COPPER!

YOU ARE FARANG !

Maybe they should issue the ex SAS, SBS, delta force, CIA with these cards so we can verify the guys who tell us they are EX

Didn't want go go there as I figured my critical and necessary constructive criticism would be contentious enough and I was right, you've got brass my man..

[WarpSpeed]

Thank you for kind words. About neck injury, I think problem here is I did not explain fully. Victim was raising his own head off ground, so I put bag behind his head. I did not raise up his head myself, as I know this is bad practice.

What you did was commendable tomahawk, but if you ever come across that situation again, try and gently stop the injured from moving, more so if they do have suspected spinal / neck / head injury. Sometimes the injured don't realise what they are doing and could further injure themselves. .

Absolutely, head injuries can instigate a lot of confusion and disorientation or even combative behavior due to the trauma even without the onset of shock which can compound the behavior, try to reason if possible, if not, do as the above poster suggests within reason..

Edited February 26, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[TheLaughingMan]

Good work. You did pretty much all you could. You can sleep well tonight (hopefully).

Not surprisingly, no one said thank you or anything at all,

After five years here it really does astound me that Thais have this view of themselves as kind, compassionate, friendly, superior people.

Amazing.

Ya I've never seen this compassion and kindness that others speak of here, only the exact opposite and quite constantly. Although the fact that other people did help and called an ambulance is a good sign. Good for you op, you're my hero in a land that desperately needs em.

[rixalex]

Well done to the OP for stopping and helping and doing what he could to assists the victim. it was all going well till

" I flashed my retired police badge and stopped traffic so ambulance could get to victim "

<deleted>!!!!

Just what is a " Retired police badge " when its at home ? I presume it isn't a Thai police badge so just what did the OP think people would do when seeing it ?

Reality check !

YOU ARE NO LONGER A COPPER!

YOU ARE FARANG !

Maybe they should issue the ex SAS, SBS, delta force, CIA with these cards so we can verify the guys who tell us they are EX

Authority figures do usually find it difficult to return to a life without authority. Power is a drug and all that...

[moe666]

yes the Thai nurses are incompetent, but maybe all they had was smelling salts, check pulse for what he was still alive.other than put a bag under his head what did the op do direct traffic. Lets give it a rest on the Thai bashing. How many Thais have any kind of first aid training and we expect them to render first aid.

[appropriate]

How many Thais have any kind of first aid training and we expect them to render first aid.

I'd expect Thai nurses to have 1st Aid training and to render it.

Two nurses showed up, and both of them did nothing except wave smelling salts under victims nose. They did nothing to check his pulse, injuries or anything.

Wouldn't you?