Pheu Thai Welcomes Red-Shirt Leaders As Candidates

[animatic]

Quid pro quo for services REDenered.

[termad]

This is amazing, really.

"Natthawut also called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to make a promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election even if the Democrat is beaten by the Pheu Thai."

Any one in Thailand believe they will admit defeat? What a dream. A men who is responsible(directly) for the death of 90 civilians to admit defeat?

Adding to the list of things that you know nothing about.

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

Edited March 4, 2011 by termad

[termad]

Quid pro quo for services REDenered.

The Abhisit Military budget allocation must have contained the same words (with correct spelling).

[rubl]

This is amazing, really.

"Natthawut also called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to make a promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election even if the Democrat is beaten by the Pheu Thai."

Any one in Thailand believe they will admit defeat? What a dream. A men who is responsible(directly) for the death of 90 civilians to admit defeat?

Adding to the list of things that you know nothing about.

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

Interesting sequence of posts. How come reply on reply has less and less relation to the original replied on?

The coup preceded both a general election and two cabinets / PM's before the current PM got a chance to form a new cabinet. Even legally so, in Thailand that is.

The 90 civilians happened to be slightly less civilians. Also 12 - 15 police / army (have to check I admit). Strangely most of those died by having grenades lobbed on them.

Anyone in Thailand believe they'll admit defeat? Who, the UDD, k. Thaksin, PTP? Asking what people will do in the future is interesting, but rarely useful. K. Thaksin said many times already to withdraw from politics, just work for the good of the country. You like to ask him again?

[TAWP]

This is amazing, really.

"Natthawut also called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to make a promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election even if the Democrat is beaten by the Pheu Thai."

Any one in Thailand believe they will admit defeat? What a dream. A men who is responsible(directly) for the death of 90 civilians to admit defeat?

Adding to the list of things that you know nothing about.

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

You mean the military coup that preceded a Thaksin-puppet that couldn't win an election being installed?

[rubl]

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

You mean the military coup that preceded a Thaksin-puppet that couldn't win an election being installed?

Actually the first (and till now last) general election after the coup saw PPP as largest party and the late k. Samak as PM.

[jdinasia]

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

You mean the military coup that preceded a Thaksin-puppet that couldn't win an election being installed?

Actually the first (and till now last) general election after the coup saw PPP as largest party and the late k. Samak as PM.

Largest party but not a clear winner (in fact parties that stated openly they would NOT help form a government with PPP before the elections turned around and did just that --- and relying on Newin's loyalty etc which went away.) There was no winner in the 2007 elections which is why we have had 3 legitimate governments since then. 2 Thaksin proxy governments and the current Democrat government.

[termad]

This is amazing, really.

"Natthawut also called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to make a promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election even if the Democrat is beaten by the Pheu Thai."

Any one in Thailand believe they will admit defeat? What a dream. A men who is responsible(directly) for the death of 90 civilians to admit defeat?

Adding to the list of things that you know nothing about.

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

Interesting sequence of posts. How come reply on reply has less and less relation to the original replied on?

The coup preceded both a general election and two cabinets / PM's before the current PM got a chance to form a new cabinet. Even legally so, in Thailand that is.

The 90 civilians happened to be slightly less civilians. Also 12 - 15 police / army (have to check I admit). Strangely most of those died by having grenades lobbed on them.

Anyone in Thailand believe they'll admit defeat? Who, the UDD, k. Thaksin, PTP? Asking what people will do in the future is interesting, but rarely useful. K. Thaksin said many times already to withdraw from politics, just work for the good of the country. You like to ask him again?

The coup preceded both a general election and two cabinets / PM's before the current PM got a chance to form a new cabinet. Even legally so, in Thailand that is.

Arguably Thaksin has been the catalyst for the biggest single change ever in Thai social history and that was his downfall because he became far too popular. For the ruling class and the Military to see a commoner suddenly commanding an unprecedented huge popular following was a frightening thing as it signalled the end of the Elite's control over the poor majority and their belief in the Elite's right to run the country as they have done so for a few hundred years.

The Coup was followed by a Military installed government which tinkered with the constitution to try to give the Abhisit a better chance to win the election however he still lost the election. (Forget the two cabinets/PMs ousted by the courts) The Amataya and the Military then bought 40 PPP MP's and were so able to get Abhisit installed as PM, The question is if (as I personally believe he will) lose the next election will there be another Coup because if there isn't another Coup the Amataya/Military must realise that this time the old ways will most probably be gone for ever so it will be their last chance.

Edited March 4, 2011 by termad

[rubl]

The coup preceded both a general election and two cabinets / PM's before the current PM got a chance to form a new cabinet. Even legally so, in Thailand that is.

Arguably Thaksin has been the catalyst for the biggest single change ever in Thai social history and that was his downfall because he became far too popular. For the ruling class and the Military to see a commoner suddenly commanding an unprecedented huge popular following was a frightening thing as it signalled the end of the Elite's control over the poor majority and their belief in the Elite's right to run the country as they have done so for a few hundred years.

The Coup was followed by a Military installed government which tinkered with the constitution to try to give the Abhisit a better chance to win the election however he still lost the election. (Forget the two cabinets/PMs ousted by the courts) The Anataya and the Military then bought 40 PPP MP's and were so able to get Abhisit installed as PM, The question is if (as I personally believe he will) lose the next election will there be another Coup because if there isn't another Coup the Amataya/Military must realise that this time the old ways will most probably be gone for ever.

Amataya many times translates to elite. That includes all landed gentle-people who simply moved from slave owners to serf owners to being a patron all over Thailand. Some of the 40 BJT MP's you refer to fit that description as well as a quiet a few PTP MP's. The middle-class which has emerged tries an independent course, but is hindered by ties of gratitude and patronage. Imagine having lived in 1850's England, or even 1890, 1910.

As you predict a coup assuming some things, I IMHO predict that really a few 'influencial' people start to realize change is not only needed but inevitable. Some will hold on to power as long as possible, including those with ties to this government and those with ties to the previous governments. Change is inevitable though, hopefully with no or limited violence.

K. Thaksin may have been a commoner once, but had been raised through the ranks. He was new elite, together with his cronies who were partially old, partially new elite. Thailand should need neither old nor new elite, but with an uneducated mass (on purpose by all sides) the elite are needed to guide the country into a real democracy where people know both their rights and their duties to their country.

[Buchholz]

a commoner suddenly commanding

Thaksin... a "commoner"...

yeah, a commoner with 400 Billion Baht...

[Lite Beer]

A post discussing The Royal Family has been deleted.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban

[Ricardo]

The coup preceded both a general election and two cabinets / PM's before the current PM got a chance to form a new cabinet. Even legally so, in Thailand that is.

Arguably Thaksin has been the catalyst for the biggest single change ever in Thai social history and that was his downfall because he became far too popular. For the ruling class and the Military to see a commoner suddenly commanding an unprecedented huge popular following was a frightening thing as it signalled the end of the Elite's control over the poor majority and their belief in the Elite's right to run the country as they have done so for a few hundred years.

The Coup was followed by a Military installed government which tinkered with the constitution to try to give the Abhisit a better chance to win the election however he still lost the election. (Forget the two cabinets/PMs ousted by the courts) The Amataya and the Military then bought 40 PPP MP's and were so able to get Abhisit installed as PM, The question is if (as I personally believe he will) lose the next election will there be another Coup because if there isn't another Coup the Amataya/Military must realise that this time the old ways will most probably be gone for ever so it will be their last chance.

"Thaksin has been the catalyst for the biggest single change ever"

Wasn't that a decade ago ? Ancient history ! And surely 1932 was a bigger social-change ?

"Forget the two cabinets/PMs"

Why dismiss them, perhaps because their existence doesn't show TRT/PPP/PTP as victims, or because they embarrassingly failed to do much for the country/poor about the effects of the gathering global economic-crisis ? There was no coup when they took power, but the E.C. exposed & acted-upon continued political-corruption, with PPP and at several other parties. Worth remembering ... not forgetting !

"there will be another Coup"

I agree with you that the Dems, nor IMO the PTP, will fail to gain an overall majority at the coming election, so it will probably be the usual scramble to build a coalition. But with the loss of one faction, and expulsions plus threat of loss of Mingkwan's supporters, are Thaksin/PTP perhaps getting a little desperate about the result of the election, hence the adoption now of these Red-Shirt leaders, whose loyalty has been demonstrated ?

But whether a PTP-led coalition-government would result in an immediate coup, I'm not so certain,since it didn't do so with the December-2007 election. Why do the Reds now scramble to 'play up' the possibility of a coup ? It would be a great excuse for not sweeping the country, in the election, but is it really likely ?

The military resisted the temptation, when there were rioters on-the-streets of Bangkok, surely they can again live with a coalition-government they don't like too much, if need be ? It's not as if the 15-month junta-appointed government was such a wonderful success for them.

[whybother]

This is amazing, really.

"Natthawut also called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to make a promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election even if the Democrat is beaten by the Pheu Thai."

Any one in Thailand believe they will admit defeat? What a dream. A men who is responsible(directly) for the death of 90 civilians to admit defeat?

Adding to the list of things that you know nothing about.

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

a) what does a coup have to do with anything stepenwolf said?

b ) what coup "installed" the PM? There was a coup, then there was an election which the PPP didn't win but had to buy smaller parties to form a coalition government, then there was a court case where the PM had to step down because he had 2 jobs, then there was a parliamentary vote that elected a new PM, then there was a court case where the PPP got disbanded because of electoral fraud, then there was another parliamentary vote where Abhisit was elected PM.

[animatic]

This is amazing, really.

"Natthawut also called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to make a promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election even if the Democrat is beaten by the Pheu Thai."

Any one in Thailand believe they will admit defeat? What a dream. A men who is responsible(directly) for the death of 90 civilians to admit defeat?

Adding to the list of things that you know nothing about.

What do you know about a the Military coup that preceded the installation of the present Democrat Prime Minister who couldn't win an election and why do you think if asking if the same thing will happen again is wrong?

a) what does a coup have to do with anything stepenwolf said?

b ) what coup "installed" the PM? There was a coup, then there was an election which the PPP didn't win but had to buy smaller parties to form a coalition government, then there was a court case where the PM had to step down because he had 2 jobs, then there was a parliamentary vote that elected a new PM, then there was a court case where the PPP got disbanded because of electoral fraud, then there was another parliamentary vote where Abhisit was elected PM.

His argument rests solely on the fact the was once a coup.

It ignores the following electoral and governmental bodies installed by elected Ministers of Parliament, and falls back on 'the coup', since the current government is friendly with factions of the army friendly with those that once supported the coup.

Never mind that;

this was all years ago,

the term of the legislature installed by a follow up election is nearly ended,

in which a resounding majority of MPs from all sides are still in their seats awaiting the next election cycle,

and this includes many score of MP's from his side of the asile.

Never mind all that, there was a coup,

and his preferred players are not in power;

Blame the coup, all else is irrelevant...

except getting his team back into power at all costs

with no moral compunctions about how.

Edited March 5, 2011 by animatic

[metisdead]

One post discussing moderation due to a previously removed post because of the below infraction has been removed from view.

A post discussing The Royal Family has been deleted.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban

[jdinasia]

The coup preceded both a general election and two cabinets / PM's before the current PM got a chance to form a new cabinet. Even legally so, in Thailand that is.

Arguably Thaksin has been the catalyst for the biggest single change ever in Thai social history and that was his downfall because he became far too popular. For the ruling class and the Military to see a commoner suddenly commanding an unprecedented huge popular following was a frightening thing as it signalled the end of the Elite's control over the poor majority and their belief in the Elite's right to run the country as they have done so for a few hundred years.

The Coup was followed by a Military installed government which tinkered with the constitution to try to give the Abhisit a better chance to win the election however he still lost the election. (Forget the two cabinets/PMs ousted by the courts) The Amataya and the Military then bought 40 PPP MP's and were so able to get Abhisit installed as PM, The question is if (as I personally believe he will) lose the next election will there be another Coup because if there isn't another Coup the Amataya/Military must realise that this time the old ways will most probably be gone for ever so it will be their last chance.

"Thaksin has been the catalyst for the biggest single change ever"

Wasn't that a decade ago ? Ancient history ! And surely 1932 was a bigger social-change ?

"Forget the two cabinets/PMs"

Why dismiss them, perhaps because their existence doesn't show TRT/PPP/PTP as victims, or because they embarrassingly failed to do much for the country/poor about the effects of the gathering global economic-crisis ? There was no coup when they took power, but the E.C. exposed & acted-upon continued political-corruption, with PPP and at several other parties. Worth remembering ... not forgetting !

"there will be another Coup"

I agree with you that the Dems, nor IMO the PTP, will fail to gain an overall majority at the coming election, so it will probably be the usual scramble to build a coalition. But with the loss of one faction, and expulsions plus threat of loss of Mingkwan's supporters, are Thaksin/PTP perhaps getting a little desperate about the result of the election, hence the adoption now of these Red-Shirt leaders, whose loyalty has been demonstrated ?

But whether a PTP-led coalition-government would result in an immediate coup, I'm not so certain,since it didn't do so with the December-2007 election. Why do the Reds now scramble to 'play up' the possibility of a coup ? It would be a great excuse for not sweeping the country, in the election, but is it really likely ?

The military resisted the temptation, when there were rioters on-the-streets of Bangkok, surely they can again live with a coalition-government they don't like too much, if need be ? It's not as if the 15-month junta-appointed government was such a wonderful success for them.

Another good post by Ricardo.

[Buchholz]

UDD core leaders eye expanding support base before election

BANGKOK, 8 March 2011 (NNT) – Newly-released core leader of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) Nattawut Saikua has pledged that he will not incite violence but will instead garner more support for the group before the general election.

Mr Nattawut reaffirmed that he and other UDD core leaders, who were recently bailed out after being charged for terrorism, would make their appearance on stage during the upcoming rally on 12 March. However, he assured that they would not attempt to provoke hostility against the Government and would abide by all bail conditions prescribed by the court.

In preparation for the next general election, Mr Nattawut revealed that the core leaders would fly under the radar for the time being to focus on forming more networks and gaining more supporters.

As for which member of the Pheu Thai Party would be fielded in the election, he said the party executives would have the authority to decide.

The core leader also insisted that the UDD would carry on its bid to free up to 98 members still locked up in various prisons nationwide on terrorism charges.

-- NNT 2011-03-08

[jayboy]

Another good post by Ricardo.

I disagree.

A catalyst is a catalyst (i.e it changes history), and doesn't become irrelevant after ten years any more than the French Revolution of the late eighteenth century has become irrelevant.It's a matter for reasonable debate about 1932:some would say that the last forty years have seen the achievements of 1932 compromised or even reversed.

A coup seems highly unlikely (so I disagree with Termad) because of the extreme unpopularity, corruption and incompetence of the military - hard to sell at home or abroad.The smarter representatives of the elite realised this and have sought to frustrate the will of the Thai people in other ways, notably the judicialisation of politics.On the other hand one never knows.Highly respected commentators such as Chris Baker tentatively raise the possibility that the fascist remnants of the PAD were encouraged by elements of the military to manafacture the crisis with Cambodia as a pretext for a military takeover.I doubt this but I do believe there are many in the elite who are terrified of an election result which would permit some kind of Thaksin re entry.

The unpredictable aspect is the sheer arrogance and stupidity of the military.Might they do something that provided "sutjai" but was very much against its self interest?One thinks in this context not only of a possible coup but also the absurd initiative to spend billions of Baht on Prem's pet project on strengthening the cavalry representation in the North East

Edited March 8, 2011 by jayboy

[Old Man River]

On a coup, I agree. I don't see it in the foreseeable future. When Gen. Prayuth assumed control of the Army he was open in stating that the military would protect the Monarchy and not become involved in politics as long as order remains. While you can never take any of them at their word, this does seem to make sense. His role is to protect the Monarchy and as long as relative stability in a Thai sense of democracy remains, I doubt we will see tanks rolling into Bangkok anytime soon. If there is an attempt at a repeat by the red shirts or any other faction such as occurred last year, it creates a threat and then I wouldn't doubt military involvement would come quickly.

On the next election, I look for the Bhumjaithai to play more of a dominant role in the next coalition than just being a chess piece put in place to keep the PTP out.

Newin is not a big fan of either Abhisit or the party leader of the PTP (whoever it is).

It will be interesting.

[TAWP]

A catalyst is a catalyst (i.e it changes history), and doesn't become irrelevant after ten years any more than the French Revolution of the late eighteenth century has become irrelevant.

And then:

It's a matter for reasonable debate about 1932:some would say that the last forty years have seen the achievements of 1932 compromised or even reversed.

So to sum up: a catalyst or event doesn't become irrelevant. Unless jayboy has a political bias to claim it does.

[rubl]

UDD core leaders eye expanding support base before election

BANGKOK, 8 March 2011 (NNT) � Newly-released core leader of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) Nattawut Saikua has pledged that he will not incite violence but will instead garner more support for the group before the general election.

Mr Nattawut reaffirmed that he and other UDD core leaders, who were recently bailed out after being charged for terrorism, would make their appearance on stage during the upcoming rally on 12 March. However, he assured that they would not attempt to provoke hostility against the Government and would abide by all bail conditions prescribed by the court.

In preparation for the next general election, Mr Nattawut revealed that the core leaders would fly under the radar for the time being to focus on forming more networks and gaining more supporters.

As for which member of the Pheu Thai Party would be fielded in the election, he said the party executives would have the authority to decide.

The core leader also insisted that the UDD would carry on its bid to free up to 98 members still locked up in various prisons nationwide on terrorism charges.

-- NNT 2011-03-08

Still puzzled. How does 'more support for the group' relate to the elections? The group is most likely the UDD, but that's not a political organization. The UDD need to prepare for the next election? Because some UDD leaders try to stand for the PTP it's not automatic that all UDD members or other type of red-shirts agree with this. 'Fly under the radar'? Need time to create a few more nice video clips? Will we see more propaganda of which the UDD has shown to be masters? Dr. weng had a really relevant education in that aspect, way back in the 70's in Vietnam. Some UDD leaders may have renounced communism, but it seems not the usual tricks associated with it

[jayboy]

A catalyst is a catalyst (i.e it changes history), and doesn't become irrelevant after ten years any more than the French Revolution of the late eighteenth century has become irrelevant.

And then:

It's a matter for reasonable debate about 1932:some would say that the last forty years have seen the achievements of 1932 compromised or even reversed.

So to sum up: a catalyst or event doesn't become irrelevant. Unless jayboy has a political bias to claim it does.

I suppose you understand what you're saying here.I don't.

[yoshiwara]

It is Thaksin's forum red cheerleaders wanting to push the coup agenda. They know that they failed last year to bring down the government and seize control of the army leadership appointments in Thaksin's favour. By pushing red shirt leaders into PTP they hope use their immunity to continue more of the same mix of upping civil disorder and dancing to Thaksin's tune. They have failed so far to break the government coalition which is driving them crazy and the vote of confidence debate will further inflame their rage of not being in control. The coalition will likely hold. The reds are now playing (hopelessly) with the idea of forcing a coup to break the coalition. Accusing the other side of the very same tactics they are adopting is a signature hallmark of Thaksin's politics. the politics of failure. The other side of these bizarre tactics is that the Yellows and Nats would like the army to intervene. Why? because like the reds they see electoral defeat up ahead.