fiddlehead Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 So, I am hoping to file "Married Filing Jointly" as I got married almost 2 years ago but just filed "Single" last few years. It seems my (Thai) wife needs an ITIN number that requires you to send in form W-7. Form W-7 says: Caution: If you check box b, c, d, e, f, or g, you must file a tax return with Form W-7 unless you meet one of the exceptions (see instructions). So, my question is: what tax return to they want me to include with this form W-7? Mine from last year? My wife's from last year (of course she doesn't have one as this will be the first year we are trying this) It seems like a catch 22 situation to me. Any help here would be appreciated. Does anyone here have a wife who has one of these ITIN numbers? Thanks in advance. ps. i hate tax season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Sorry, i think i posted this in the phuket forum instead of a tax forum. Mods, could you please put it in the correct one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Don't seem to have a tax forum so I'll move to General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Easiest way is to submit an application for an ITIN with your return. Use her Thai passport as ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario299 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Easiest way is to submit an application for an ITIN with your return. Use her Thai passport as ID. Okay, here's what I know about ITIN # and tax returns. In order to file jointly, you need to fill out and submit the W-7 application form and then get the ITIN # sent to you. This number is a "temporary" replacement number for a Social Security number for your wife, which she cannot get until she becomes a resident of the USA. This is also true for any dependents, they must go to the US before they can get either a Social Security number or an ITIN number. Your wife can get the ITIN for joint tax purposes, but you cannot claim any dependents living in Thailand because they will not issue either a social security number or ITIN number for dependents unless they are residents of the USA, Mexico or Canada, currently the only countries that have an "agreement" with the US about dependents and taxes. I'm not sure what mstribling is suggesting about the "easiest way", but I am pretty sure you need the ITIN number for your tax form, not just a copy of an application that "may or may not have" been submitted or approved. I suggest you get the number after submitting the W-7 form, seems to me it took only a couple weeks for us. PM me if you need additional help, been there, done that. mario299 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 If you read the instructions for the ITIN is has to be submitted WITH your 1040. What is meant by easiest was the use of Thai passport to prove ID. To the OP: go to the IRS website and read the instructions for the ITIN. Do not base anything you read here on your decision. This is only were to look fir advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 W-7 is submitted with your 1040. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 As said you submit the ITIN form with your current tax year return (as your ITIN for this year). It is now only issued as part of tax filling. Believe you must also include a sheet of paper that she agrees to be taxed under US law (that should be spelled out in tax instructions for joint filling for foreign spouse). In following years you will have the number and just use as SSN on tax forms. The deceleration for joint filling is only required one time (unless you want it changed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdc1899 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 does it benifit you to file jointly if she is living in Thailand? BTW Kids born to an American here get a born over here birth certificate, U.S. passport and a social security number without setting foot on U.S. soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Thanks guys. I'm trying to understand all this. If I file the W-7 with my tax form this year, will I be able to use her as the "married filing jointly" option? That is the important thing here. I realize that according to "mario299" i cannot but didn't see anything like that on the IRS website. I'd really like to use this this year but don't know what will happen if i leave the line blank about her SS# or ITIN#, and just submit the W-7 form. BTW: My son has all proper papers, US passport and SS number already. My wife was in the states already but doesn't have a SS#. (only a 10 year visa which I plan to include a copy of) Anything more you folks can add is a real help. Thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That is what the instructions tell you to do. Leave the line blank and submit the W-7, and supporting documents. Read the instructions on your 1040 about qualifying dependants. Most Definitely will get the married advantage and would think you can claim your son as well. Just advice though. Once again, boring and not very entertaining but failing to read through your tax instructions is a bad idea. Sorry for seeming like I'm scolding you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Trying (hard) to read through all that 1040 instructions, especially pages 12 through 18. Not seeing any talk of a wife as a dependent. Only children, brothers, half brothers, blah blah blah. I really do appreciate your help and if you can direct me to which page you are seeing this info that makes you think I should get to use her as my wife (dependent) I will do my best to understand this. It's OK to scold, I'm just not good at reading through all the options and understanding what pertains to me. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Read page 12. Nonresident alien spouse and the instructions for married filing jointly. Were you married at the end of 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Yes, I read that and seems she (we) are qualified to file "married filing jointly" to me. Yes, we have been married for almost 2 years now (happily i might add) My son is definitely a deduction and I have been using him for 4 years now. Once again, thanks for your help. I also read this on page 11: . It takes 6 to 10 weeks to get an ITIN So, it really seems confusing that you are supposed to send in W-7 form WITH your tax form yet, get an ITIN number which is supposed to be inserted in place of spouses SS# Once again, thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You will enter the ITIN next year on your return - this year the W7 takes care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Two slightly off-topic but may be relevant to readers of this thread. 1. If the aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year you must also file FBAR Form TD F 90-22.1 each year. This is sent to Treasury Department but best to do at tax time to help remember. 2. Tax reporting on-line using free or nearly free software is available and easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckarooBanzai Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I received an ITN for my wife and adult child who is mentally challenged. I put together one package including: Wife and child's birth certificates Marriage certificates (both forms) Adoption certificates Thai ID cards Doctors/Hospital form stating daughters mental deficiency Copy of wife's Passport and US visa and anything else I could think of to prove a family relationship. If I felt it necessary I had the documents translated. I then had this package notarized at the US embassy with a cover page saying that all these documents prove the family relationship and dependency of my wife and child and included it with the request for ITN's and my tax return. No problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedObserver Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you send a copy of the wife's Thai passport, for ITIN W-7 form, it needs to have your surname and be a certified true copy from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckarooBanzai Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you send a copy of the wife's Thai passport, for ITIN W-7 form, it needs to have your surname and be a certified true copy from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. ... Or notarized by the US embassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedObserver Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) If you send a copy of the wife's Thai passport, for ITIN W-7 form, it needs to have your surname and be a certified true copy from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. ... Or notarized by the US embassy. US Embassy no longer provides that service for Thai documents. Thai documents must be stamped by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Authentication of Royal Thai Government Officials’ Signatures U.S Consular Officers in Thailand may authenticate Thai public documents for use in the United States if the documents bear the seal of the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Please bring the document to our office and we will provide this service. From W-7 instructions: Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the document. Edited February 28, 2011 by InterestedObserver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckarooBanzai Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Although I can not speak for the Embassy I do not believe notarizing a copy of a Thai passport with the original in hand is the same as notarizing a domestic Thai document. A call to the embassy would probably be in order - but - it may be cheaper to go the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affair route anyway and avoid the notary fee at the embassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Although I can not speak for the Embassy I do not believe notarizing a copy of a Thai passport with the original in hand is the same as notarizing a domestic Thai document. A call to the embassy would probably be in order - but - it may be cheaper to go the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affair route anyway and avoid the notary fee at the embassy. Which means a (dreaded) trip to Bangkok just for this, correct? Does anyone know if it can be done in Phuket? They (embassy personnel) are supposed to be coming here in a little over 2 weeks. But, it's sounding like that won't help, aye? Edited February 28, 2011 by fiddlehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That's why way back in the beginning I said the "easiest" is to just mail in your wife's passport. If you plan on traveling soon that may pose a problem. But we knew we weren't traveling, and mailed hers in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderpuff Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You did register your marriage at the US Consulate didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You did register your marriage at the US Consulate didn't you? ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckarooBanzai Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Go to the embassy web site and leave them in e-mail asking them if they can take care of it or not. They are usually pretty quick to reply. My guess is that you will be able to take care of it when embassy personnel visit your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I did talk to them about registering our marriage and they said they don't do that anymore. That was last year. She does have a US visa (which has been used last year) in her passport. Shouldn't that prove things? Now, mstribling, do you mean mail my wife's Thai passport along with my income tax form to the IRS? I would think she'd never see it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Well then think that then. Enjoy the hassle of the other forms of proof. I am at a loss of what else to tell you. You simply either do not want to take the time to read the instructions, or you can't understand them. It states that her passport will be returned along with her ITIN. Edited February 28, 2011 by mstribling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 There is no such registration of marriage at US Consulate. The Thai marriage certificate is all that is ever required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedObserver Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) You did register your marriage at the US Consulate didn't you? For what purpose? The OP is trying to get an ITIN from the IRS; the IRS needs to see certified true copies of documents. Social Security will also need a certified true copy of the Thai marriage certificate plus translation. The US Consulate will charge you $50.00 USD per signature authentication for their help. Edited February 28, 2011 by InterestedObserver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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