The Red Shirt Political Party?

[webfact]

The Red Shirt Political Party?

Recently, many people have been wondering exactly what the role the Pheu Thai Party is playing, whether it's a political party under the command of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra or a part of the red shirt group, who have not only once, but twice, incited political unrest in the country.

The well-coordinated activities conducted between the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirt movement with Thaksin as the mastermind have became more obvious to the public after many Pheu Thai politicians participated in the red shirt rallies by encouraging the protestors to topple the government.

Both of them have the same main goal and that is to reinstall Thaksin and his cronies back to power by absolving them of all their crimes. However, their ultimate objective might be to bring about the “New Thai State.”

In a new development, seven of the red shirt leaders who have just been granted bail have announced their intention to run in the next general election on the Pheu Thai Party’s ticket. Because of this, it could be concluded that in fact, the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirt movement are one in the same.

However, it would be a positive development for these red shirt leaders to take their political struggle from the streets back to Parliament. Also, it would be even better that if elected, they will just focus on their roles as legislators instead of resuming their roles as mob leaders at the same time such as in the case of MP Jatuporn Promphan, who has set a bad example for democratic rule and created confusion among the people.

Still, the red shirt leaders have claimed that the reason why

they want to be elected Pheu Thai MPs is to benefit from the parliamentary immunity which will prevent them from being imprisoned on the impending terrorism charges against them. This may have shamelessly perverted the true purpose of the democratic principal.

It remains to be seen how much closer the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirt movement will come together. In the long term, this may prevent the party from being politically institutionalized. Yet, based on its past actions, the Pheu Thai Party has become subservient to the red shirts with its only purpose is to serve Thaksin.

Taken from Editorial Section, Naewna Newspaper, Page 3, February 28, 2011

Translated and Rewritten by Kongkrai Maksrivorawan

Please note that the views expressed in our "Analysis" segment are translated from local newspaper articles and do not reflect the views of the Thai-ASEAN News Network.

-- Tan Network 2011-03-01

[whybother]

it could be concluded that in fact, the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirt movement are one in the same.

Why did it take you so long to realise this?

[hanuman1]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

[Pi Sek]

I have been hoping for some time that the Red Shirts set up a political party, as have many others. Democracy requires all to have a voice - even the complete nutters of every extreme in the spectrum - and allow the public to judge it. That means it's great if there are one or two seriously out-there and dissenting opinions, as long as the sensible ideas are there too. There are voices in Thailand that want war with Cambodia and there are voices in Thailand that want corruption legalised - they should be represented in a truly democratic society (not not over-, or under-, represented).

I'd love to see the likes of Sombat shouting at Jatuporn in parliament for not representing the grass-roots people just as I'd like to see Chamlong calling on Abhisit to address a situation in a debate environment rather than down a megaphone at a load of sheepish followers.

[Crushdepth]

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

You're wrong about that. Democracy is not just about 'voting', it's also about rule of law, you can't have one without the other. It is not the function of Parliament to overturn the decisions of the judiciary, and if they do then they are flushing the separation of powers, justice and democracy down the toilet together.

[virtualtraveller]

I think the very best suggestion is for both the Peua Thai and UDD to split into two movements each; one for genuine politicians with a manifesto and plan to benefit their 'masses' and improve the lives of many in an holistic, lawful and sustainable manner. The other party for each can focus on 'bring back Thaksin' and exonerating those who should be sitting in jail for various dodgy acts. Then let the voters show the country just which of these two they genuinely want to throw their support behind. Of course the two could be allies in forming a government, falling out with each other and so on, but at least the issue of how much Thailand really loves Thaksin and his cronies, would finally be settled.

[hanuman1]

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

You're wrong about that. Democracy is not just about 'voting', it's also about rule of law, you can't have one without the other. It is not the function of Parliament to overturn the decisions of the judiciary, and if they do then they are flushing the separation of powers, justice and democracy down the toilet together.

Look, we all know how nice it is for the rule of law to be enforced across every institution and individual in the land, but as countless posters have demonstrated, and still more foreigners from countries where the rule of law is better enforced have found during the business of their everyday lives, this country does not strictly enforce the rule of law. Why go on about it all the time?

Evidently, this government allows all kinds of illegality to go on in the media spotlight, from illegal gatherings of more than 5 people during the emergency laws to political posturing at rallies by those out on bail and lots more besides, we see the rule of law ignored by both those breaking it and those who are supposed to enforce it.

When are people going to accept that in the short term, this isn't going to change, and that it is better to play with the toys we have got rather than those we wish we had. Deal with the situation as it is instead of constantly complaining that the playing field isn't level. It's the same for all sides.

If I were to engage you in your argument that 'rule of law' is as important as voting in a democracy, then I could say that laws would be nothing without legislators, and legislators would not be legislators without people voting for them, so the votes of the people are in fact the main drivers behind all laws, but that too would be pandering to this (by Thai standards) idealistic and somewhat romantic notion that the rule of law is king (little 'k').

Your assertion:

Democracy is not just about 'voting', it's also about rule of law, you can't have one without the other.

is therefore pure theory and manifestly untrue when applied to the realities of Thai society. That's what I think, anyway.

[Ricardo]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Agreed. Although I'd like to see them fight individual constituencies, rather then being elected through the party-list system, which I'm not convinced is very democratic.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

You mean that it's not about greed for money ? Or feudal politics and influential local-families ?

I hope I'm not one of those people you refer to as "the bigots on this forum", nevertheless I do wish the UDD/DAAD would form its own new party in the way the remnants of the old PAD-movement did. And leave the PTP with the option, of becoming some sort of socialist-party representing the poor, rather than ensuring that they continue to be seen by many only as the whitewash-Thaksin party.

The Dems & the NPP are clearly different parties, with different agendas, I think it's a pity that PTP & UDD/DAAD-remnants can't follow the same route. But it is of course up to the PTP-leadership/big-boss.

Naive & idealistic of me, perhaps.

[yellow1red1]

it could be concluded that in fact, the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirt movement are one in the same.

Why did it take you so long to realise this?

beat me to it... has this writer been on another planet for the past couple of years?

should anybody tell him/her that PAD has a political party, too?

[Robby nz]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

The problem there is that the Thai voters wont be getting a chance as they will be on the party list.

And I would suspect close to the top of that list.

After all they have a high purpose in wanting to be MP's and it sure isnt to serve the people of this country.

[Buchholz]

I have been hoping for some time that the Red Shirts set up a political party, as have many others.

Sae Daeng's Red Shirt Party has been around for a bit:

Khatiyatham Party (KTT)

Established 19 February 2009

Address : 234 Ratchadaphisek Road, Huai Khwang,

Bangkok 10310

Tel. : (662) 274 0401

http://thailand.prd.go.th/ebook/review/content.php?chapterID=74

[Ricardo]

Yes, KTT might appear more in-tune with the UDD/DAAD-leaders, having been led by their fallen-colleague, rather than the much-larger-but-apparently-shrinking PTP. surely they can't think that the KTT would be a less-safe bet at election-time ?

[hanuman1]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

The problem there is that the Thai voters wont be getting a chance as they will be on the party list.

And I would suspect close to the top of that list.

After all they have a high purpose in wanting to be MP's and it sure isnt to serve the people of this country.

From the OP:

Still, the red shirt leaders have claimed that the reason why

they want to be elected Pheu Thai MPs is to benefit from the parliamentary immunity ...

I took this to mean they will be seeking election via the electoral voting system.

[Dap]

Can't they even try to be a little more subtle???

[Buchholz]

Can't they even try to be a little more subtle???

Subtlety isn't their strong suit as Chiang Mai's Pheu Thai Party candidate Surapong Towichakchaikul displayed on the campaign trail during the last election:

http://www.oknation.net/blog/print.php?id=365032

[Robby nz]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

The problem there is that the Thai voters wont be getting a chance as they will be on the party list.

And I would suspect close to the top of that list.

After all they have a high purpose in wanting to be MP's and it sure isnt to serve the people of this country.

From the OP:

Still, the red shirt leaders have claimed that the reason why

they want to be elected Pheu Thai MPs is to benefit from the parliamentary immunity ...

I took this to mean they will be seeking election via the electoral voting system.

PTP have already announced their constituancy candidates so the assumption must be that the 7 plus Jatuporn will be on the party list.

[rubl]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

I guess what you are saying is that Thailand is an immature democracy with it's traditional patronage system still in place. Some elite of any color will get elected, poor common people get shafted as usual. You can find solace in the old adage 'people get the government they deserve'

[animatic]

it could be concluded that in fact, the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirt movement are one in the same.

Why did it take you so long to realise this?

Different branches of the same political machine.

[animatic]

Party List is certainly not a democratic concept, IMO.

One man one vote,

and the party with the most voted in that way

can take first shot at forming a government

if they don't have 50%+ .xxx ove the voters.

That is Democratic.

Letting certain people be elected just because their party is big enough, and that crimes committed BEFORE they even ran can't be prosecuted 'IF they are on the party list, is about as UN Democratic as it gets.

Edited March 1, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Can't they even try to be a little more subtle???

I don't think they understands the concept well.

[SouthernMan3]

No reply.

Not worth the time.

Wanna be a color ?

Try pink.

Get it ?

[rubl]

No reply.

Not worth the time.

Wanna be a color ?

Try pink.

Get it ?

No, I don't get it. I'm a bit dense sometimes and need help & explanations. Please

[yoshiwara]

it could be concluded that in fact, the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirt movement are one in the same.

Why did it take you so long to realise this?

Different branches of the same political machine.

They are not one institution but different layers of one political onion working for the puppetmaster Thaksin. Some naive red cheerleaders can 'wish' all they want for a red Che Guevara party but their soggy liberal dreams will remain just that: dreams. Others might think that the dream of having a red party with Jatuporn and his mates leading a party somewhat delusional re aspirational liberation. The rest of us have woken up to Thaksin's machinations. It is clear that in order to save the red leadership the PTP has been ordered to give them a leg-up. Nothing will have been decided without Thaksin's approval. He remains in charge. Having a few thug MPs elected to the merry band will help keep the troops in line. For Thaksin re his supporting organisations it has always been divide and rule and payments.

[ianbaggie]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

Yes - and Adolf Hitler was elected by a democratic process - and it was stated at the last election in the UK - that if the BNP ever won they would never be allowed to take office - you see farang avatars do KNOW a thing or two about democracy - we invented it!!

[ianbaggie]

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

You're wrong about that. Democracy is not just about 'voting', it's also about rule of law, you can't have one without the other. It is not the function of Parliament to overturn the decisions of the judiciary, and if they do then they are flushing the separation of powers, justice and democracy down the toilet together.

Look, we all know how nice it is for the rule of law to be enforced across every institution and individual in the land, but as countless posters have demonstrated, and still more foreigners from countries where the rule of law is better enforced have found during the business of their everyday lives, this country does not strictly enforce the rule of law. Why go on about it all the time?

Evidently, this government allows all kinds of illegality to go on in the media spotlight, from illegal gatherings of more than 5 people during the emergency laws to political posturing at rallies by those out on bail and lots more besides, we see the rule of law ignored by both those breaking it and those who are supposed to enforce it.

When are people going to accept that in the short term, this isn't going to change, and that it is better to play with the toys we have got rather than those we wish we had. Deal with the situation as it is instead of constantly complaining that the playing field isn't level. It's the same for all sides.

If I were to engage you in your argument that 'rule of law' is as important as voting in a democracy, then I could say that laws would be nothing without legislators, and legislators would not be legislators without people voting for them, so the votes of the people are in fact the main drivers behind all laws, but that too would be pandering to this (by Thai standards) idealistic and somewhat romantic notion that the rule of law is king (little 'k').

Your assertion:

Democracy is not just about 'voting', it's also about rule of law, you can't have one without the other.

is therefore pure theory and manifestly untrue when applied to the realities of Thai society. That's what I think, anyway.

i see - so just because some self interested groups go against the law - lets not support law and call it a democratic process instead. Thailand after 2000 years of run by a small elite isnt ready for democracy - every time it surfaces corruption occurs.

The spirit of democracy is not a mechanical thing to be adjusted by abolition of forms. It requires change of heart.

Mohandas Gandhi

[ianbaggie]

It certainly would appear that wanting to be an MP simply to avoid jail is a dastardly plan indeed.

However, if they get elected on a widely-known 'keep me out of jail' ticket then that, democracy lovers, is as democratic a process as you could wish to have.

Instead of jacking off to their personal attacks on individual leaders, and endless exasperation at how the red shirts or PTP or Thaksin can take themselves seriously, why don't the bigots on this forum look into the reasons why it could even be possible that sufficient numbers of Thai voters could make them elected members of parliament?

Here's a tip: You won't find those reasons anywhere on TVF. It's to do with Thai people, see, not Farang avatars.

I guess what you are saying is that Thailand is an immature democracy with it's traditional patronage system still in place. Some elite of any color will get elected, poor common people get shafted as usual. You can find solace in the old adage 'people get the government they deserve'

I remember a certain exiled pm voted in by the people and it ended in corruption, theft and tears all round. Thailand isnt ready for an attempt at democracy!!

[metisdead]

A post and replies with reference to HM the King have been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.