Even More Dead Than Last Year?

[deejah]

the past three three years have looked slow

and despite the 'economic uptrend'

it appears this is the low of the low

based on a few observations

quieter streets and bars even in feb and march

full occupancy at place of residence until may years gone by

now almost empty since late feb

is this the worst in pattaya now in regards to money and tourists coming in?

maybe i am lucky to be here in quiet times

but i also think it is sad for those working here

i guess no one goes hungry

and many can go back home and work on a farm

oddly there doesn't seem to be a lack of construction

rumor has it is is illegal money coming in from all over the world

looking for a place to park

beasts me but makes sense

look at the changes on soi 10 the past year!!!!!

[Barack]

I have not been in Pattaya for about 10 days. My observation is just the opposite of yours. Getting a sawng taeo was nearly impossible in going to and from JomTien. At 2nd road and Soth Pattaya the ques were long and often a shortly of baht buses because of all the tourists (mostly Russian). The malls were packed as were the beaches at JomTien. I would not judge the economy based on bar customers. Remember Pattaya is trying to tranform itself and maybe it is starting to work.

[Thaifan2]

I have heard that the high season has been longer than usual in Pattaya this year .Its mainly Russians etc though who dont frequent bars .

[Ulysses G.]

Remember Pattaya is trying to tranform itself and maybe it is starting to work.

That's a good one!

[FarangBuddha]

I have not been in Pattaya for about 10 days. My observation is just the opposite of yours. Getting a sawng taeo was nearly impossible in going to and from JomTien. At 2nd road and Soth Pattaya the ques were long and often a shortly of baht buses because of all the tourists (mostly Russian). The malls were packed as were the beaches at JomTien. I would not judge the economy based on bar customers. Remember Pattaya is trying to tranform itself and maybe it is starting to work.

That was the impression of a friend of mine as well...in fact it was so crowded with people in Pattaya he said that he cut short the Pattaya leg of his vacation and hoofed it up to Bangkok. He said his hotel was fully booked-up and was so for the duration of his stay. Bars and restos also very crowded.

So score another one was a good high-season POV

[Scabo]

In my opinion the demographics have been changing over several yrs now.

Probably just bit more noticeable in the high season, where there use to be

more West/Euro, Brit's,Yanks, Aussie's now have been replaced by the East/Euro's,

Russian's, Mid east, South Asian.

As already pointed out these people are not big into the bar scence( Pacing Walking

St not included) thats maybe why the Op has noticed it.

I guess it looks good on paper for TAT,(for toursit arrivals) unfortuanetly alot of small businesses

(mine included) suffer where you use to have your average Brit or Aussie supporting the local

economy they are not here as much as they have but been replaced by our Eastern friends,

who generally stick together doing their own thing.

Just my obeservation over the last 4-5 high season's. cheer's, Scabo.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Scabo

[truered]

thought the op had posted a poem for minute

[chops]

Blame it on a combination of factors..

~lousy exchange rates

~poor western economies

~influx of rude russians

So no guys can come or want to come to pattaya anymore, for the nightlife that is.

I'm hanging on to Pattaya, but eventually I will leave the place as well(within the next year).

[erre191]

I see quite the opposite. The huge condotel where I live is still fully booked. So where many of the most popular hotels where I was trying to get rooms for some friends last week. The beaches are still very busy. And yes, the place is changing. 5 yrs. ago European couples were an exception. Today they are more like the rule. Definitely missing this years the hoards of Soi Boaukao "classy,tattooed, bare-belly" no nation mentioned. Just go have a look and see for yourself. Also Russians and Indians, Pakistanis everywhere.

[banglay]

I have not been in Pattaya for about 10 days. My observation is just the opposite of yours. Getting a sawng taeo was nearly impossible in going to and from JomTien. At 2nd road and Soth Pattaya the ques were long and often a shortly of baht buses because of all the tourists (mostly Russian). The malls were packed as were the beaches at JomTien. I would not judge the economy based on bar customers. Remember Pattaya is trying to tranform itself and maybe it is starting to work.

It seems as though big business is attempting to turn Pattaya in to a two week package holiday destination.

In other words, the money is being sucked out of Pattaya. Granted, there will be more hotel positions available,

but the bars and the girls are starting to feel the effects. This translates in to less money going to the poor

Issaan families.

Things, situations and definitely people change. If changes never happened the dinosaur would still be roaming the earth…Whoops I forget there is one type of dinosaur left and it can still be found in small pockets around Pattaya (mainly anglo style bars and agogo) but I am afraid that it is becoming a endangered species, as it’s habitats are rapidly altering and its foods sources are dwindling and becoming far to cosmopolitan and unpalatably for it’s weak digestive system.

The Dinosaur in question is the “Whingosaur” it’s main trait as the name implies is to whinge and whine about all things new, especially the influx of a new more dominate two legged mammal known as the “Notenglishenoughapod”.

I am afraid if the “Whingosaur “does not accept change and adapt to its new environment it is doomed to extinction.

[JSixpack]

>is this the worst in pattaya now in regards to money and tourists coming in?

Nonsense. Just a typical gloom & doom expression common around here. If every year was worse and worse as the naysayers have it, Pattaya would be a ghost town. In fact, it's bigger than ever. What's worst is the traffic and parking.

Been a great high season and it IS longer than usual. Sois 7 & 8 and Walking Street still have plenty of business.

In fact, a new bar plaza is opening up on Soi Buakhaow and a few new go-gos have also opened up around there. Remember, that area has built up tremendously over the past few years.

[Ulysses G.]

Been a great high season

In general, I find that VERY diifficult to believe.

[thaimate]

The only tourists you see these days are Russion ,Indian and Chinese ,there is only one problem(apart from their rudness) they dont spend much except for cheap clothes in Tesco.

[doggie888888]

It seems as though big business is attempting to turn Pattaya in to a two week package holiday destination.

In other words, the money is being sucked out of Pattaya. Granted, there will be more hotel positions available,

but the bars and the girls are starting to feel the effects. This translates in to less money going to the poor

Issaan families.

I see...so let's continue to keep those bargirls as whores and not even bother to think of alternatives so that the altruistic farangs can continue to support poor Isaan families? What next? Visiting prostitutes is an act of charity?

[WaatWang]

Things, situations and definitely people change. If changes never happened the dinosaur would still be roaming the earth…Whoops I forget there is one type of dinosaur left and it can still be found in small pockets around Pattaya (mainly anglo style bars and agogo) but I am afraid that it is becoming a endangered species, as it's habitats are rapidly altering and its foods sources are dwindling and becoming far to cosmopolitan and unpalatably for it's weak digestive system.

The Dinosaur in question is the "Whingosaur" it's main trait as the name implies is to whinge and whine about all things new, especially the influx of a new more dominate two legged mammal known as the "Notenglishenoughapod".

I am afraid if the "Whingosaur "does not accept change and adapt to its new environment it is doomed to extinction.

Banglay, I love your definitions! I will be on the lookout and try to avoid Whingosaurs, for sure!

As for the original topic, I have only been here to see a few high seasons, but to me it seems like this year was very busy - much busier than last year.

[Soi Sauce]

My favourite places to stay have been well-booked and hard to get into. Also. Soi Bookow restarant, bar, and guest house owners are saying it's getting busier and busier every year.

To back this up, a friend with a bar on Pattaya New Plaza reckons he's making money this year as opposed to breaking even for the last 2.

Maybe those that are coming are going for the Bookow atmosphere and value rather than nobbing about in over-priced tourist hotels. If the Beach area is quiet, the 'Cow area certainly is not.

Value Tourism are currently the travel industry buzz-words and "Cow offers it in spades. Not hard to understand its success.

[JSixpack]

@hyku1147

It seems as though big business is attempting to turn Pattaya in to a two week package holiday destination.

In other words, the money is being sucked out of Pattaya.

It's absurd to suggest that two-week holiday destinations don't make money. TV is always good for a laugh.

But in fact Pattaya has simply broadened the base to include the more upscale tourist and more nationalities. That's because there is also a lucrative market there that includes the Thai market. A lot of the crowding on weekends comes from the Thais.

In the meantime, the downscale market has grown as well, reflected in the massive expansion around Soi Buakheow and Naklua just north of the roundabout.

@thaimate

The only tourists you see these days are Russion ,Indian and Chinese ,there is only one problem(apart from their rudness) they dont spend much except for cheap clothes in Tesco.

It's such fun just being provocative, innit?

No, plenty of traditional mongers as well. You ain't lookin' in the right places. Saw a ton in Walking Street recently. Peppermint so crowded, quite early, I could hardly find a stool!

Anyway, enough of the cheap Russian etc. stereotype. The average Russian spends more in PTY than the average Pom. You have to consider the higher hotel and food expenditures. Also Russians are serious shoppers in Central Festival. Finally, Russians often come as couples, whereas most of the Poms are lonely single men. The women count also, you see.

Don't those Chinese all see the Tiffany Show?

@Ulysses G.

In general, I find that VERY diifficult to believe.

Hardly surprising; you don't even live in PTY, do you?

But if you look thru the posts in this thread, many on the scene agree that this has been a great high season. Whining is typical of every season, no matter how good.

Now, great for whom? Get this: in the standard definition, it doesn't have to be great for EVERYBODY, for every little beer bar owned by every idiot farang trying to keep his *tee rak. The businesses catering to Russians, Arabs, Indians, Thais, and Chinese--they count just as much as those catering to the mongers. But the monger business has also been so good that a whole new beer bar complex and new go-gos for them are springing up in Buakhaow.

And then you have to consider those crowds of middle-class Thais every weekend. That's quite a new phenomenon. Yes, they are spending money in Central Festival, in various Thai restaurants that YOU don't frequent, and in XCite and other Thai clubs on 3rd where YOU never go and know nothing about.

So if you look at the total take, all included, new restaurants, new businesses along Buakhaow, 3rd Rd, Naklua just north of the roundabout, it's been great.

Which is why I can't even park my motorbike anywhere along Beach or 2nd Rd. nowadays.

Edited March 3, 2011 by JSixpack

[CHdiver]

........

Which is why I can't even park my motorbike anywhere Beach or 2nd Rd. nowadays.

Maybe thats because all the Parking is taken by not rented out Motorbikes and Baht Busses/"Meter"Taxis waiting for Business?

[thaimate]

........

Which is why I can't even park my motorbike anywhere Beach or 2nd Rd. nowadays.

Maybe thats because all the Parking is taken by not rented out Motorbikes and Baht Busses/"Meter"Taxis waiting for Business?

Ihavnt been able to park my car there for years

[somtampet]

@hyku1147

It seems as though big business is attempting to turn Pattaya in to a two week package holiday destination.

In other words, the money is being sucked out of Pattaya.

It's absurd to suggest that two-week holiday destinations don't make money. TV is always good for a laugh.

But in fact Pattaya has simply broadened the base to include the more upscale tourist and more nationalities. That's because there is also a lucrative market there that includes the Thai market. A lot of the crowding on weekends comes from the Thais.

In the meantime, the downscale market has grown as well, reflected in the massive expansion around Soi Buakheow and Naklua just north of the roundabout.

@thaimate

The only tourists you see these days are Russion ,Indian and Chinese ,there is only one problem(apart from their rudness) they dont spend much except for cheap clothes in Tesco.

It's such fun just being provocative, innit?

No, plenty of traditional mongers as well. You ain't lookin' in the right places. Saw a ton in Walking Street recently. Peppermint so crowded, quite early, I could hardly find a stool!

Anyway, enough of the cheap Russian etc. stereotype. The average Russian spends more in PTY than the average Pom. You have to consider the higher hotel and food expenditures. Also Russians are serious shoppers in Central Festival. Finally, Russians often come as couples, whereas most of the Poms are lonely single men. The women count also, you see.

Don't those Chinese all see the Tiffany Show?

@Ulysses G.

In general, I find that VERY diifficult to believe.

Hardly surprising; you don't even live in PTY, do you?

But if you look thru the posts in this thread, many on the scene agree that this has been a great high season. Whining is typical of every season, no matter how good.

Now, great for whom? Get this: in the standard definition, it doesn't have to be great for EVERYBODY, for every little beer bar owned by every idiot farang trying to keep his *tee rak. The businesses catering to Russians, Arabs, Indians, Thais, and Chinese--they count just as much as those catering to the mongers. But the monger business has also been so good that a whole new beer bar complex and new go-gos for them are springing up in Buakhaow.

And then you have to consider those crowds of middle-class Thais every weekend. That's quite a new phenomenon. Yes, they are spending money in Central Festival, in various Thai restaurants that YOU don't frequent, and in XCite and other Thai clubs on 3rd where YOU never go and know nothing about.

So if you look at the total take, all included, new restaurants, new businesses along Buakhaow, 3rd Rd, Naklua just north of the roundabout, it's been great.

Which is why I can't even park my motorbike anywhere along Beach or 2nd Rd. nowadays.

Excellent post,great to see somebody posting who actualy knows something about PattayaMany seem to base the place on how busy beers bars are,and how many st/lt the bar girls have per month.The places is changing rapidly for the good and when the Bangkok thais come here for the weekend away from the pollution and dark skies,one knows its the place to be.Who in their right mind would choose Bangkok over Pattaya,beggars belief

[moo9]

I see...so let's continue to keep those bargirls as whores and not even bother to think of alternatives so that the altruistic farangs can continue to support poor Isaan families? What next? Visiting prostitutes is an act of charity?

Stupid post. People were not talking about charity but the contribution to the economy.

I don't like to defend them, but many are not prostitutes in the Western sense. So if you don't like it, feel free to stay away from here and keep your wise comments for yourself.

Cheerio

[Rumcabal]

Are the owners of Central Festival, the Hilton, the Holiday inn, and the numerous hotels on Wong Amat, residents of Pattaya? Are they based in Thailand? How much tax do they pay to the local government? Are they reinvesting in Pattaya's infrastructure, or are all the profits going elsewhere? What effect is the slow down of the bars in Naklua(for example)having upon the local economy/workers/residents? It is important to note that many different people are dependent upon the "bar economy", and they are the ones who suffer the most.

Locals work in the Central Festival, Hilton and Holiday Inn. Locals supply them with food, laundry services...etc.. I'm sure they do contribute tax and fees to the local government. Local contractors worked in the construction of these places. If these places attract in 'higher spending' Japanese, Chinese and Thai customers, that can only benefit Pattaya as a whole.

If you are noticing a slowdown in the local bar scene I think that you are blaming the wrong cause. There are still hundreds of beer bars to go to, right? In my opinion the massive economic recession in the West is the primary cause for a lack of Western tourists and that has nothing to do with whether Central Festival is in business or not.

[FarangBuddha]

Are the owners of Central Festival, the Hilton, the Holiday inn, and the numerous hotels on Wong Amat, residents of Pattaya? Are they based in Thailand? How much tax do they pay to the local government? Are they reinvesting in Pattaya's infrastructure, or are all the profits going elsewhere? What effect is the slow down of the bars in Naklua(for example)having upon the local economy/workers/residents? It is important to note that many different people are dependent upon the "bar economy", and they are the ones who suffer the most.

Locals work in the Central Festival, Hilton and Holiday Inn. Locals supply them with food, laundry services...etc.. I'm sure they do contribute tax and fees to the local government. Local contractors worked in the construction of these places. If these places attract in 'higher spending' Japanese, Chinese and Thai customers, that can only benefit Pattaya as a whole.

If you are noticing a slowdown in the local bar scene I think that you are blaming the wrong cause. There are still hundreds of beer bars to go to, right? In my opinion the massive economic recession in the West is the primary cause for a lack of Western tourists and that has nothing to do with whether Central Festival is in business or not.

Spot on...the 1 week "millionaire" crowd is out and the real millionaires are in...works for me

[tropo]

Remember Pattaya is trying to tranform itself and maybe it is starting to work.

That's a good one!

I think it is starting to work. There are a lot of tourist around right now who are not sex-tourists. Russians are even starting to fill out longer term accommodation.

[CHdiver]

I think it is starting to work. There are a lot of tourist around right now who are not sex-tourists. Russians are even starting to fill out longer term accommodation.

They are more like "Sex on the Beach" Tourists

[Ulysses G.]

There are a lot of tourist around right now who are not sex-tourists.

7-ll and the balloon bars must be thrilled.

[JSixpack]

Are the owners of Central Festival, the Hilton, the Holiday inn, and the numerous hotels on Wong Amat, residents of Pattaya? Are they based in Thailand? How much tax do they pay to the local government? Are they reinvesting in Pattaya's infrastructure, or are all the profits going elsewhere? What effect is the slow down of the bars in Naklua(for example)having upon the local economy/workers/residents? It is important to note that many different people are dependent upon the "bar economy", and they are the ones who suffer the most.

A very convincing demonstration, and fine followup of your previous post, of how well the modern nanny state teaches business and economics to its hapless parishioners. Immunity from embarrassment is such a fine thing though.

Ah, where to start.

First of all, there's no slowdown that you've proven, anywhere in the area. On the contrary, most posters here agree that this has been a good or great high season, esp. compared w/ last year.

You keep repeating that idea, though. Had I but known you'd become thus obsessed and unable to eat, I'd have taken some photos during peak high season of packed beer bars in Naklua, Beach Road, Sois 7-8, Soi Buakhow environs, and Walking Street just for you and posted them here. Now it's too late. What you are looking at now ain't High Season, pal. Still, lots of tourists are still around--of all persuasions.

OK, now for a little education. Crucial morsel for you, free of charge (as everything should be, eh): the sole proprietorship is not the only form of business entity in modern economies. If it was, then the economy would hardly qualify as modern. We'd have to call it "subsistence."

But your only model for prosperity is: local owners of local single proprietorships (namely, beer bars)--the ultimate example BTW being the sole proprietorship known as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, which as it happens is not a beer bar.

Now for fun. What's true of "the owners of Central Festival, the Hilton, the Holiday inn, and the numerous hotels on Wong Amat" is also true of the owners of Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn Bank, the Bank of Ayudhaya and the rest.

Ergo: Simple! Convert Central Festival, the Hilton, the Holiday inn, and the numerous hotels on Wong Amat (and in Jomtien, and Pattaya Park) (can we include Tukcom? It should go back to what it was BEFORE it was Tukcom when it had some pitiful "locally owned" cheap clothing shops; OK, Wattana could stay--but it would leave) AND all the banks into new beer bar complexes! Free beer for everybody, but not bar fines (for the sake of the local economy/workers/residents). Then, grant no visa to any Russian, Chinese, Indian, Arab, Korean or Japanese. Only Brit, 'Mercan, and Ozzie sex tourists allowed--on a cash-only or bartering basis, as we'll have no banks, only mattresses. Oh--the new "banks" will be locally owned sole proprietorships, heh heh.

We need so many more beer bars because jobs outside the beer bar economy, such as the thousands created by the other recent development--those jobs don't qualify as real jobs! Those jobs--shall we call them "fake" or "pretend" or "ghost"--are only held by non-locals anyway, who magically sleep in Bangkok and spend none of their salaries in Pattaya. Locals means beer bars; that's the only place they can work!

Sorted. Boom times for all the locals ahead! Thank you, hyku1147 economics (shared by so many of our members)!

Incidentally, the bars in Naklua have been doing well. Has there been a big slowdown in the number of Germans visiting Pattaya this high season? I drove through Naklua frequently during high season and didn't see any significant decline. What well-managed bar or restaurant has closed? In fact, there's been huge development in Naklua w/ many new bars on the side streets. Even if what you assert w/o evidence (fun, innit?) is true, I wonder why the "local economy/workers/residents in Naklua" can't, like, move to booming Soi Buakhow? Do all of them live in Naklua, and if they do, must they also work in Naklua to satisfy your definition of "local"? Soi Buakhow, that's too remote?

A typical Pattaya gloom-and-doomer fantasy is that OMG! the infrastructure! It's degenerated! so tourists are staying away in droves. Actually tourism has vastly increased and the infrastructure of Pattaya has significantly improved in the last 10 years or so--coinciding with the greater influx of diverse tourists, despite the handicap of the usual Thai corruption and mismanagement.

Now, there was no need to improve the infrastructure for a static Pattaya frozen 10-15 years ago, just as the infrastructure of Pyongyang hasn't needed any improvement. But get this: the infrastructure is SHOCK! better than it has ever been in the history of Pattaya.

My biggest complaint now is about the traffic and lack of parking all the crowding that "economic failure" and "downturn" and "Pattay's death" have created for so many to enjoy and profit from. Now the "authorities" are aware of the problem (as they have been for many years, study after study), as shown by the monorail proposal, but have never been able to solve it w/o hurting the Baht Bus Mafia (a beloved local enterprise, yes?).

OK, since you and other naysayers have a vision problem, here are some of the improvements: Walking Street, Third Road, countless resurfacings, sewerage, burying cables, strengthened and expanded electric grid, better traffic lights, new streets, new airport road, relatively fast internet access everywhere (from NO access anywhere), new lighting. Here's one in Naklua: Soi 16, greatly widened and resurfaced w/ concrete, huge new sewer lines constructed and laid. Now the real problem is that you don't like the improvements and you don't like any development other than another beer bar.

The billions of baht needed for making all these improvements could not POSSIBLY have been generated by the locally owned beer bars alone. Hence, the newer businesses have helped. Here is ONE example (and one is enough to refute your basic premise):

Pattaya's Electricity Lines Go Underground

Mr. Watchara Phanchang, Underground Cable Designer of the Provincial Electricity Authority said, “I have designed a project in which electrical lines from Sukhumvit Road intersection down Central Pattaya Road all the way to Central Festival Pattaya Beach will be planted underground. . . . This project is a project done together between the Provincial Electricity Authority

and Central Festival Pattaya Beach

." . . .

Read the full article at

http://pattaya-times.com/a6400-pattaya-s-electricity-lines-go-underground

Well, there's much more fun to be had with your post with regard to the tax issue, neglect of the tea money issue, and your concept of how things work w/ the local government, but who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel? 'Nuff is 'nuff.

There are a lot of tourist around right now who are not sex-tourists.

7-ll and the balloon bars must be thrilled.

I didn't know 7-11 depends so heavily on sex tourists? Just recently went to a 7-11 crowded w/ Russians. Surely 7-11 is happy and expanding. The biggest worry for 7-11 is 108 and Family Mart.

The balloon bars still have a sufficient number of sex tourists. That's why whole new complex of them is opening in Soi Buakhow.

There's more to Pattaya than 7-11 and balloon bars.

Ulysses, you used to offer cogent witticisms, but lately you seem to be merely trolling nonsense. I'm disappointed.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Wow, do they clone real estate agents and brainwash them to believe everything but the truth and reality?

Is Pattaya even more dead than last year? Yes, no question about it. Just ask the business owners and avoid asking or believing anything a real estate agent has to say on the subject.

The "decline" has been going on for a long time. It is taking place in almost all sectors, contrary to real estate myth. An obvious problem is that there are too many hotels, restaurants, malls, etc., and too few tourists and long-stay expats to keep these places from going under.

Yes, the number of people living in and around Pattaya has grown over the years (this is happening worldwide). But there are not enough customers in relationship to those who want to sell something. Most business owners are hurting.

Is the infrastructure a mess? Yes, no question about it. It is developing world infrastructure. Is it better than ten years ago. I would say, only slightly. The major improvement was the wastewater plant installation. Still, the walkways often smell like crap and you walk at your peril. The traffic is terrible now (getting like Bangkok).

It is interesting to me how some people who are oblivious to reality seem to write with "anger." Their words betray utter frustration with the current situation. I am certain they bought into a real estate myth that is now a nightmare for them. They are so frustrated they want to blow up the entire place, get rid of all the "scum" and "low-life shops" that surround them and play havoc with their fantasy world.

Maybe they should never have come here. Maybe they should leave. It does not matter, 10, 15, 20 years or more, Pattaya will never be what they want it to be. Pattaya is what is and 99% of us know what it is

[Ulysses G.]

Ulysses, you used to offer cogent witticisms, but lately you seem to be merely trolling nonsense. I'm disappointed.

In other-words, I have dared to disagree with the picture that you are painting about the world economy and local political situation not hurting tourism in Pattaya. I stand by my opinion that it certainly is.

[gotlost]

I have heard that the high season has been longer than usual in Pattaya this year .Its mainly Russians etc though who dont frequent bars .

Yea its changing.. Russians caught <deleted> on the beach in broad daylight and only being fined 1000 baht.