Child Support Guidelines For Comparison

[MutualRespect]

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum and was shown I can't open a new thread, so not sure where this will appear once I post it. I'm looking for some feed-back regarding child support where existing threads don't address my questions.

I lived in BKK for 2 years and moved back to Singapore 1 year ago. Because we're not married, my Thai girl-friend visits me but can't fully move over yet. For 2 days I know she got pregnant and I'm having no doubt to be the father. Currently I'm supporting her with about 20k THB per month where she sometimes already complaints it's not enough but I feel it should be more than enough. But anyhow....

Since we had quite some ups and downs the past months, marriage is far away but I will certainly live up to my upcoming responsibilities. Should the relationship break, my question would be what's the appropriate amount for support? Shouldn't be a contiuation of 20k THB per month be enough? On the other hand I read on another web-page it depends on my income and could be 20% of my net income.

The baby will be born in TH, and as stated I'm living in Singapore. Should the relationship break, obviously my girl-friend with her baby would stay in BKK.

Appreciate any feed-back

[craigt3365]

How about we move this over to the Family and Children Forum???

P.S. Please visit the Forum Support Desk if you are having problems opening new topics. We welcome you and hope you get good responses to your query.

[MutualRespect]

Oh, yes please - apologies as I'm still learning about posts in forums.

[Forethat]

Personally, I think 20k could be a little on the low side (especially with the frequent doctors appointment in mind), but that depends entirely on your own conscience - rather than discussing money I'd do my very best making sure the child grows up with both parents in the house.

Parenting a child is the greatest reward there is in life, don't waste the opportunity.

[Mario2008]

Under Thai law there is only child support, no support for the ex-GF or ex-wife. Child support will generally be around 3,000 to 6,000 baht and share of bills, such as medical and school. if you live in another country, other rule may apply.

Having said that, the child is of course yours and with that also the responsibility to take good care of the child, inlcuding providing for it financially.

20,000 baht would seem a very decent ammount of support, I know many families who have to do with a lot less. But it also depends on how much you can afford.

[MutualRespect]

Agree, and at the moment we'll more work towards getting the relationship stable and make it happen.

I just need a feeling what's the right amount of support. When being together I'm paying her monthly 20k THB, all kind of expenses in SG when she stays here for about 3 weeks and a monthly flight SG <-> BKK are paid by me in addition. Total expenses not covering any insurance add up to about 60k THB.

Now where she got pregnant, I wouldn't wonder if she'll ask for more than 20k THB monthly support, at least after giving birth.

If this all gets excessive, I just need a comparison to get her down to earth and say - well -, should the relationship not work out, I'm responsible for the child and the amount of support you would get would be xxx. Whatever this amount is.

A problem in our relationship is the appreciation of money. I don't mind to share, if it gets appreciated. Look, if she works herself, she maybe earns 10k THB per month. When I support her, I get the feeling she thinks money is growing on trees but I also need to work for it and I'm not rich - neither I'm poor.

[MutualRespect]

Maybe to add how she uses the 20k she gets currently from me:

4k rental + electrictiy in BKK

5k for son out of first marriage

11k living expenses like food, taxi, doctor, etc. where I don't look into the way how she uses it

Indicating by her 20k per month is hardly sufficient where I see it as a gift providing her 5k for her son out of previous marriage. The son is living with his Thai dad.

We don't need to support her family but she herself (no surprise) has nothing.

[transam]

Maybe to add how she uses the 20k she gets currently from me:

4k rental + electrictiy in BKK

5k for son out of first marriage

11k living expenses like food, taxi, doctor, etc. where I don't look into the way how she uses it

Indicating by her 20k per month is hardly sufficient where I see it as a gift providing her 5k for her son out of previous marriage. The son is living with his Thai dad.

We don't need to support her family but she herself (no surprise) has nothing.

Why are you supporting the Thai dad, which is what you are doing ? His son, he takes care. Please read between the lines and don't get money shafted.

[mallyrd]

Maybe to add how she uses the 20k she gets currently from me:

4k rental + electrictiy in BKK

5k for son out of first marriage

11k living expenses like food, taxi, doctor, etc. where I don't look into the way how she uses it

Indicating by her 20k per month is hardly sufficient where I see it as a gift providing her 5k for her son out of previous marriage. The son is living with his Thai dad.

We don't need to support her family but she herself (no surprise) has nothing.

Why are you supporting the Thai dad, which is what you are doing ? His son, he takes care. Please read between the lines and don't get money shafted.

You've got that right.

[MutualRespect]

She gave the son to the dad to be able to work, but still has legally the right to take him back one day - maybe once she gives birth and should we marry we'll take him to us.

5k is for schooling fees and some special teaching.

I know l'm not responsible for this son and would not be required to provide anything, but it's out of good heart.

When she complaints needing more money, I just need to bring her back to earth. That's why I want to know if the relationship breaks, what's my responsibility for the baby to make sure it will do well.

I don't think we'll separate but I need some arguments.

As stated like "ok, you expect 30k THB per month, do you know yourself earn maybe 10k and if we separate you would get xxx for the child as I'm solely responsible for the child only"

But, should legally 30k THB per month be right, then I shut up and accept. So what's the right amount....let's say you got 200k THB net per month, how much to provide for support? And knowing SG living cost are much higher than BKK (my rental alone is 70k THB per month).

[transam]

She gave the son to the dad to be able to work, but still has legally the right to take him back one day - maybe once she gives birth and should we marry we'll take him to us.

5k is for schooling fees and some special teaching.

I know l'm not responsible for this son and would not be required to provide anything, but it's out of good heart.

When she complaints needing more money, I just need to bring her back to earth. That's why I want to know if the relationship breaks, what's my responsibility for the baby to make sure it will do well.

I don't think we'll separate but I need some arguments.

As stated like "ok, you expect 30k THB per month, do you know yourself earn maybe 10k and if we separate you would get xxx for the child as I'm solely responsible for the child only"

But, should legally 30k THB per month be right, then I shut up and accept. So what's the right amount....let's say you got 200k THB net per month, how much to provide for support? And knowing SG living cost are much higher than BKK (my rental alone is 70k THB per month).

It is quite likely you are also keeping the husband too. Seen it before. From what you right you don't need advise cos you are ready to accept her story. 20 K is cool but if you are keeping the husband and l think you are then you are being shafted. You are NOT married, you do NOT know if the new born is yours even.

Sorry if l sound off but my chum has just been shafted for bundles and it hurts.

[MutualRespect]

Yep mate, have also read lot's of stories about this.

I'm 100% sure to be the father because we were all time together, there is no doubt. Yes, the 5k per month makes it easier for the father for the support but otherwise the kid would grow up very poorly. She is my future wife, it's her child, so it's out of good heart. The 5k per month won't kill me.

It's all about arguing where it stops and I personally feel 20k should be ok where she doesn't use much of it when being in SG with me. You might know discussing with a Thai girl is not always rational. That's why I'm asking about what would be my child support obligation. Bad to say, but as a kind of threatening factor.

Like telling her "if all what you got is not enough and you therefor want to separate be aware there would be child support only of xxxx and you even couldn't work"

Our problem is all our friends from BKK are also my working colleagues from senior management. They bought all kind of land, houses and plan to retire in BKK. Their wifes got up to 50k THB per month, land, car, etc.

I still got a long time to work, live and Singapore and I'm not willing to invest my money in TH now.

And what does a TH lady do? Of course she compares, becomes best friend to all the wifies. So suddenly not having a car, not having a house, no land and just getting 20k per month becomes nothing.

[bifftastic]

Well, I think the two possible scenarios are very different.

If you stay together and get married, then lifestyle will be important. In that case, the comparison between her lifestyle and her/your friends wives/gf's counts for something. It's to be expected that you, as a couple, should decide on how best to fund your lifestyle.

If you split up, what her friends spend money on is nothing to do with you at all!

If you want to encourage her to put some more effort into your relationship, I would point out to her that her lifestyle will be much improved should you marry, but if you split up you'll only be supporting your child, and not her, or her existing son. I understand why you do that now, that's fine, but should you no longer be together, that would most definitely no longer be anything to do with you.

I'd tell her if you get married, things will be better, but she has to work towards the happiness of you both, you're not sure if you want to marry her yet, if you split up, the money will be LESS than the 20k she gets now, more like 15K, if she's lucky.

Sounds a bit harsh maybe but I think she might need some kind of incentive to put some effort into your future happiness.

Hope it works out for you.

[MutualRespect]

And sorry, I might have misinterpreted the comment about the father.

I'm 100% sure she got nothing with him anymore. My gf got a degree, isn't a bar girl and she separated from him because she never really loved him. They married out of obligation many years back because she got pregnant. The son will become 6y this month. I even met him couple of times when we picked up the son to go out. You could sense there is nothing between my gf and him anymore.

[transam]

Yep mate, have also read lot's of stories about this.

I'm 100% sure to be the father because we were all time together, there is no doubt. Yes, the 5k per month makes it easier for the father for the support but otherwise the kid would grow up very poorly. She is my future wife, it's her child, so it's out of good heart. The 5k per month won't kill me.

It's all about arguing where it stops and I personally feel 20k should be ok where she doesn't use much of it when being in SG with me. You might know discussing with a Thai girl is not always rational. That's why I'm asking about what would be my child support obligation. Bad to say, but as a kind of threatening factor.

Like telling her "if all what you got is not enough and you therefor want to separate be aware there would be child support only of xxxx and you even couldn't work"

Our problem is all our friends from BKK are also my working colleagues from senior management. They bought all kind of land, houses and plan to retire in BKK. Their wifes got up to 50k THB per month, land, car, etc.

I still got a long time to work, live and Singapore and I'm not willing to invest my money in TH now.

And what does a TH lady do? Of course she compares, becomes best friend to all the wifies. So suddenly not having a car, not having a house, no land and just getting 20k per month becomes nothing.

A '' Lady '' who has a farang hi-so husband TOLD my wife to dump me cos l am not rich . So yes it affects a relationship and causes many problems BUT YOU must stand your ground, the gf either loves you for who you are and not money for the ex or she must do something else, but she won't yet cos of the 20k.

I know someone now who's wife is fooling around to find a farang with more money and they have a kid.

[MutualRespect]

Thanks, you hit the point. That's where child support comes in.

If we separate, I won't provide support for her first child anymore. And you're right, I'm not sure about marriage yet.

My argumentation to say if we separate you get basic child support only doesn't hold or wouldn't stress her to make an effort, if e.g. I would need to pay 40k THB per month.

I found a web page stating the amount for child support could be 20% of the net income. Let's say you earn 200k per month, paying 20% per month would be 40k THB. Instead of stressing the person to do more, it might motivate the person to say bye bye.

[bifftastic]

And sorry, I might have misinterpreted the comment about the father.

I'm 100% sure she got nothing with him anymore. My gf got a degree, isn't a bar girl and she separated from him because she never really loved him. They married out of obligation many years back because she got pregnant. The son will become 6y this month. I even met him couple of times when we picked up the son to go out. You could sense there is nothing between my gf and him anymore.

well, aside from the fact that having a degree is not really a reliable indicator of someone's moral attitude, it doesn't really matter about that, you know your g/f, no-one here does What you're asking about is the potential situation after you split up, in which case that wouldn't matter either

[bifftastic]

Thanks, you hit the point. That's where child support comes in.

If we separate, I won't provide support for her first child anymore. And you're right, I'm not sure about marriage yet.

My argumentation to say if we separate you get basic child support only doesn't hold or wouldn't stress her to make an effort, if e.g. I would need to pay 40k THB per month.

I found a web page stating the amount for child support could be 20% of the net income. Let's say you earn 200k per month, paying 20% per month would be 40k THB. Instead of stressing the person to do more, it might motivate the person to say bye bye.

exactly, she's probably being told by her friends about all kinds of ways to get more money from you. You need to play the same game, paint the picture that life will be better for everyone if she moves towards the kind of lifestyle you want. That is, if you do really want to continue with her!

I'm not sure about the 20% thing, here in the UK it's 15% I think, anyway, I'm not sure you could be made to pay it. I'm not saying you shouldn't only that it would be up to you to do so, so you would decide the amount.

If you were married then, presumably, it would be a 50% type of relationship, Thai law regards marriage as a 50-50 thing, so things would improve for her if you married and get worse if you split up.

That's all just on a material level, there's more to marriage than that, but it's still important to know going in, what the ground rules are.

[MutualRespect]

Fully agree, absolutely.

One of the reasons not to marry yet, as in case it would come to a separation all becomes much more stress and painful.

And indeed all kind of gf pitty how tough life is for her with such poor support. Still I believe there are many girls not getting flights and everything paid and on top 20k per month.

Having the argument in case of a separation she would get only xxx is only as a wake up call and bring her down to earth.

But if she talks to her gf and maybe legally it doesn't hold, I can't argue this way. That's why I want to know what would be the estimated amount legally responsible for.

Let's say you earn 200k THB and separate from the gf and will be responsible for the child.

How much is it to be responsible for? If it's 20% of the income, it's not a smart way of argumentation to stress her to do more. Then I need to find other ways of argumentation.

To keep it simpler let's forget about other country law. Just assume everything according to TH law, since the baby will be born in TH.

Edited March 6, 2011 by MutualRespect

[473geo]

Don't complicate things by trying to justify your financial contribution to the relationship. Stick to 20k a month if that is what you feel comfortable with, and prepare to meet a few additional requests. Simply tell her 20k a month is all you can afford right now. You will have plenty of opportunity to give more in the future should you wish to do so.

[MutualRespect]

I want her to put more effort into the relationship, otherwise there wouldn't be any doubt about marriage when expecting a baby.

And since we had lot's of ups and downs, I certainly like to know the worse case scenario what would be my financial obligation.

Would the worse case scenario be to provide 10k THB per month, I myself would probably give more to give some feeling of comfort - should it ever happen.

Would the worse case scenario be to provide 100k THB per month, it would have a severe impact on my own life-style.

So it would be nice to know...

[473geo]

I want her to put more effort into the relationship, otherwise there wouldn't be any doubt about marriage when expecting a baby.

And since we had lot's of ups and downs, I certainly like to know the worse case scenario what would be my financial obligation.

Would the worse case scenario be to provide 10k THB per month, I myself would probably give more to give some feeling of comfort - should it ever happen.

Would the worse case scenario be to provide 100k THB per month, it would have a severe impact on my own life-style.

So it would be nice to know...

I understand your requirement, and you have your answer that the base amount would appear to be 5 - 10k a month for your child.

I do not see that using this in any discussion will bring about anything other than insecurity on her part........just my opinion.........

Perhaps when you tell her you can only afford 20k at the moment, it will bring about an attempt on her part to put more effort into the relationship, however, if she is pregnant, how do you expect her to achieve this?

[rodentwarrior]

Why don't you find a good Thai family lawyer to answer your questions as far as Thai law is concerned.

All you get here is 95% opinion based on nothing but individual mindsets. You want to know your legal position? Would you go to a bar and ask the customers?

[MutualRespect]

Ok, if general experience is child support would be around 10k I got the answer I was looking for.

Is there any reader who is providing child support and could comment?

If I understand your question right, it comes to the point of what I see is needed to improve the relationship. Well, a completely different topic.

Keep her emotional outbreaks better under control, stop complaining and comparing and make better use of time (English and intellectual skills)

But that's probably something between her and I and I don't see how a discussion here in this forum could help.

[MutualRespect]

Hi Rodentwarrior,

I'm just trying to get a gutfeel should it come to further arguments in our relationship. Was hoping to get some feed-back from members who might actually pay child support.

I would consult a lawyer only should I really consider break-up of our relationship, which is not the case at the moment.

Thank you

[TheWalkingMan]

When the baby is born get a DNA test. Even though you are sure, it is always best to have scientific proof. Too many guys are getting done over.

Stand your ground about money issues and be mentally prepared to cut her loose if you feel that her monetary requests are larger than her affection for you. Seriously, when that happens, just walk away. All the talk with her 50k/month, asset given friends will eat away at her unless the love is bigger.

TheWalkingMan

[Forethat]

When I read your posts I am struck by the level of emotions involved. The fact that you've been supporting your girlfriend financially tells me that your not the kind of person who'd tell the girl to bugger off, and still be able to sleep well the same night - for every bar girl willing to scam anyone that lowers their guard, there is one irresponsible &lt;deleted&gt; who behaves like a complete arse in every situation. There are plenty of kids with farang fathers growing up in Isaan where there mother have left them with the family because she's busy playing the game in Bangkok. I've always wondered what kind of person can live with the thought of being father to a kid growing up in complete and utter misery. As I said; there are plenty of shit heads like that with a weird ability to don't give a &lt;deleted&gt;** about others than themselves - including their kids. I am not saying that your kid will be growing up in misery, but trust me, the forecast ain't as bad as you think - it's worse.

I may be a hopeless romantic, but I am also fortunate enough to experience the amazing privilege of being worn out by toddlers who scream and laugh with joy as they plead for daddy to play hide 'n seek one more time before going to bed. Sometimes at night I watch them sleeping like angels in clean sheets, and I realise that my biggest fear is that I will not be able to give them exactly the life we live now. Thai people who doesn't have a family fortune or have a foreign university degree doesn't exactly live in luxury. If your girlfriend gets 20K each month, she's doing pretty good from a Thai perspective (especially if she's working and makes 10K herself), but compared to the standard most farangs are used to it would be misery.

I would never be able to live with myself knowing I had a kid somewhere who sleeps on a mattress on the floor in a filthy one room apartment with no hot water and painted concrete walls. Scooping water in to the loo after taking a crap. Another option is that he's being sent to the mothers parents and he grows up on the country side, likely to be even worse. Forget about education, the Thai schools are so poor he will grow up not having a freaking clue who Chaucer, Shakespeare or Hitler was. He will not have a clue what a map is, and he will not know anything about astronomy or geography. He will not be able to speak English. He will not be able to get a decent job, if it's a girl she may get a job as a prostitute and can play meat flute a couple of times a night for a living. Again, I'm not saying that this will happen to your kid, but there's a good chance.

You need to start thinking about this from a different angle. Here's what I would do if I were you:

I would do everything I could to repair the relationship with the mother. Everything. I would even go so far as humiliate myself, something which may seem like taking it over the edge, but trust me - you have more at stake here. If you thought there would ever be a situation where you needed to admit being wrong even though you are right - this is it, the true evidence that men are smarter than women. Allow her to think she's right if that saves the relationship.

If you fail to repair the relationship, this is when you need to allow egoism to blossom in full. Take every possible action to get full custody. If it gets to this point, do everything you can to maintain your good relationship with the mother, even though there's no relationship. Be careful planning your moves, and when the time comes, take the kid out of Thailand and bring him up yourself. Allow yourself to enjoy the privilege of being a father. Trust me, the day will come when you wonder what it would have been like watching your angel sleeping in clean sheets after playing hide and seek with daddy, while at the same time knowing that there's a luk khrung somewhere in Thailand with your blood in the veins getting beat up in school for not being Thai, sleeping on a mattress in a crap room somewhere.

What I'm saying is, I would never give her 20K for raising my child without my presence. However, I would be prepared to invest many times that to make sure my kid grows up in a family, secure, clean and well educated.

[Boo]

mario already gave you the answer to how much child support is required by law. 150baht a day plus your share of education/medical costs. Of course a baby needing milk & nappiez pushes that up quite a bit & then morally you have to ask if you would be happy with your child living just above the poverty line but as a tool to show your gf that you are being more than generous with 20k a month it might be a place to start

[MutualRespect]

Hello Altogether,

Monday has started in Singapore and I will pack my things soon and fly to BKK for a week tomorrow, coming back next week Thursday.

Your shared thoughts are right, it would be a disaster if I get father, the kid would grow up in TH without me, my financial support and I later could not even talk to him or her. No doubt with the kid not growing up in Singapore or at least with me, it will not learn English soon. We're for 2 years together now and as said my gf was not a bar girl and with the support I would also like to always prevent her from the need becoming one.

If the relationship won't work out and I would give her only the basics like 10k THB, she might have no choice. I would feel pretty bad to force her into such situation because of money that she needs for her and our baby that's half my responsibility.

The parents live close to Petchambon, no way I want my baby to grow up there. Education = zero. That's also why her son stays with the dad in BKK and it's easier to see him.

Hence, I would never just piss off and we must make our relationship happen. The challenging part will be to find the right compromise how much I expect my gf to change and how tolerant I will be. This compromise has to be found and to work out well for quite a while before marriage becomes an option.

Should it happen there is no point of continuing the relationship, I'm indeed thinking of taking full custody and get the child to Singapore. She might even agree knowing with 2 kids and her age it would be difficult to find another serious partner and on top always the financial risks. But this is also a contingency option as I want the child to grow up with the mother. I haven't really planned for it but it should be possible. I would need to hire a maid to take care of the kid, while I'm working. Something very common in Singapore.

Keep you posted, I'm still adjusting to the news of becoming father.

Edited March 7, 2011 by MutualRespect

[Mario2008]

A Thai court will not give you sole custody, only shared custody, unless there are compelling reasons to give you sole custody. In essence the mother is a danger to the child or not capable of taking care of the child. (Finances do not play a role).

Otherwise only if the mother agrees would you get sole custody and that is if you were married or did legitimize the child if born out of wedlock.