Thai nationalism

[fester]

The Nation writes about Thai nationalism today.

"Fire Of Thai Nationalism Burning Out Of Control"

http://www.thaivisa.com/index.php?514&backPID=10&tt_news=188

Are Thais only thinking about themselves?

Is the article wrong?

[eddieold]

Another 'nationalist' feature announced today is the educational department requirement that Thai numerals/script be used in all school classes. Not over helpful in a country that relies so greatly on tourism to generate foreign income.

[pavina]

Thais are as the rest of the world today.

Everybody are thinking of himself, the only

person thinking about me is-----------me

Thank you

[fester]

Another 'nationalist' feature announced today is the educational department requirement that Thai numerals/script be used in all school classes. Not over helpful in a country that relies so greatly on tourism to generate foreign income.

Schools told to use Thai numerals and Buddhist calendar

Sirikul Bunnag

In an attempt to counter Western influences and preserve cultural identity, the Education Ministry has ordered all schools to use Thai numerical figures and the Buddhist Era calendar when teaching the national curriculum.

All agencies under the ministry's control would also be required to use the traditional numerals and calendar in official letters, said education deputy permanent secretary Savitri Suwansathit.

``Thai numerical figures are part of the national identity,'' Ms Savitri said. ``The ministry must play a role in preserving them and promoting their use among students, before they forget what they look like.''

The Curriculum and Instruction Development Department would ensure schools use Thai numerals during all lessons given in Thai language, from first to final grades, to counter Western influences, she said.

Pranee Prabripoo, of the Thai Language Institute, welcomed the move.

``It's time to take seriously the way in which we teach Thai students,'' she said. ``The use of technology such as calculators and computers has encouraged students to abandon Thai numerals. They have become influenced by Western culture.''

Ms Pranee said the trend took off three years ago, when exhibition organisers began adopting the Christian calendar to name events such as Education Fair 2000 and IT 2000, in what she labelled ``the cultural invasion.''

The Education Ministry shared its concerns about the national identity with the Culture Ministry, as well as the House committee on religion, culture and arts.

Culture Ministry official Sucharit Buapim said learning and practising how to write Thai numerals could help students increase their concentration and improve their handwriting.

Unfortunately, though, many students graduated without being able to write Thai numerals as they were not used in universities, he said.

--

Bangkok Post, March 10, 2003

[dazdaz]

Thailand obviously has a lot to learn as "the world becomes more interdependent", and that was the Dalai Llama(Mahayana Buddhism) who said that, not a politician!

I've had this discussion a lot.  A cultural identity is not static, it's constantly changing.  Being British for example does not mean eating cucumber sandwiches every lunch time and playing cricket matches every weekend.  Britiain is now famous for it's Indian food, this is part of the culture.  Culture evolves, culture changes, yet some people want to attach a certain identity to their culture and defend it at any cost.  This is nothing more than an egoic decision.

To make this decision so late, displays lack of a strategic plan, and a political knee jerk reaction which will unfortunately harm not only Thai's, but also the people in the countries surrounding it, and potentially influence the precious tourism industry, which at this moment in time is a suicidal decision!

I'd like to comment on this topic too. "They have become influenced by Western culture".

Well, actually the West has become influenced considerably by Eastern culture, and we don't throw it away, there's been a slow process, yet a process of integration, which has become invaluable, albeit not always visible without considerable intercultural experience to gain a perspective on what's happened.

Buddhism puts other people before oneself as I understand it, so this also makes me wonder if there is less than 95% of Thai's who have had Buddhist beliefs, which is starting to break up what was once special.

Perhaps this is a process of "learning from one's mistakes".

What do others think?  I don't care about cucumber sandwiches anyway.

[fester]

But Mr Toxin has manged to put his foot in the mouth very often lately... Is he the real voice of the people??

[dazdaz]

HI, am I loosing my marbles or not?

Both of these sites has click here for English.

http://www.doe.go.th/

http://www.customs.go.th/

Now I can't find a "click here for English".

Having checked the definitive Thai Government website list from here,

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/th.html

It would appear English is fast disappearring!  Are others aware of this?

Perhaps the websites should be saved from webcache and archived online!

This is "pretty serious" for expats!!  Perhaps it's time to start lobbying the Government, even if they don't change it back, they will hear a thousand voices scream!

[singa-traz]

The Workpermit section is still available in English ...

http://www.doe.go.th/workpermit/english.html

Should we mirror the site ? :ghostface:

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Maybe this is sad for western Aliens BUT this is Thailand ...be real go home to America and listen to Natonalism in full flight.Who can listen to George W without vomiting ?

[PETER THE EATER]

I can listen to George Bush without vomiting.

I can only retch!

[Neeranam]

Is the article wrong?

A very good article!

[Austhaied]

<font color='#000000'>Maybe this is sad for western Aliens BUT this is Thailand ...be real go home to America and listen to Natonalism in full flight.Who can listen to George W without vomiting ?</font>

Or Pauline Hanson in Australia.. It is their country after all, and really none of our business. Like it or lump it.

This "faze" wont last long anyway.. I'm just glad my kids are going to an international school..

[sukanyacondo]

Funny really as most Thais I know are only to keen to practice English with me, even my wife got a degree and learnt Englsih so she could get a better job. I think they should be aware of their numerical system but face the reality of todays world which due to the internet really is changing incredibly quickly. Im just apppreciative that English is such a widespread and universal language.

If they want to do international business they will have to use "western" numerals.

I asked my wife about nationalism and she says she and her friends dont want farangs out at all , ok she may be biased slightly but her friends are married to Thais and DONT want a farang husband.

[keebone]

Speaking of websites only being available in Thai how about the website for the tourist police - how many tourists can read Thai script I wonder

Thai Tourist Police

[Austhaied]

Speaking of websites only being available in Thai how about the website for the tourist police - how many tourists can read Thai script I wonder

Thai Tourist Police

Well spotted keebone.

[meadish_sweetball]

The numerals used on calculators and in computers are Arabic numerals, not Roman numerals. The West adopted Arabic numerals because the system made sense. Does anybody in Europe feel less European for using Arabic numerals?

The calculators Thai kids buy are manufactured in Asia, not the US or Europe.

The mathematics they learn are worldwide mathematics, with contributions from all over the globe, they are not 'Western' mathematics.

Let us take the argument a bit further - to *really* preserve Thai culture, why not stop wearing Western clothes and go back to sarongs and bare chests for both sexes? After all that is original Thai culture, is it not? Why not stop driving cars, motorcycles, and riding aeroplanes?

Just because Thailand took its first steps of consequence into the modern world in the 19th century, there is no need to equate 'Thai values' with 19th century values.

[GuestHouse]

Its time for me to trot out my Som Tam Parable again.

Peanuts from the Americas

Papaya from the Americas

Chili from the Americas

Cane Sugar from India

All imports to Thailand but brought together by Thais (or perhaps Laotians) to produce a dish which is quintessentially Thai.

Military (and others who shall go unmentioned) dictating to Thailand what is and is not Thai are going against the whole of Thai cultural development.

And as we in the West have learned, Nationalism and poorly educated masses of people with a deference to people in authority has always lead to tragic consequences, often the total destruction of the nationalist state that starts this madness.

But let’s not just blame the Generals.

Where is the Thai art, literature, theatre that in any other culture would be challenging this nonsense?

Too busey trotting on trite renditions of the same &lt;deleted&gt; the generals are promoting is my view.

Edited May 27, 2007 by GuestHouse

[endure]

This 'news' is more than 4 years old

[Travel2003]

Reading the history of Thailand, nationalism is nothing new to the country.

Every now and then this is brough up on the agenda.

Whenever there is a new gowernment or junta, this happens.

This goes all the way back to before Thailand even became a constitutional monarcy.

It started with trying to get all the different cultures/groups in the country to unify in one kingdom. This to get less internal trouble (rebellions), and get a bigger pool of conscripts in case of war.

Historically Thailand has always admired Japan for their nationalism.

This was also clearly displayed during the 2nd WW, where Thailand annexed areas from the neighbour countries in the north, east and south, with the permission from the Japanese.

They looked with envy how the nationalist military leaders in Japan managed to remove a lot of the influence the country had gotten from the west.

Can anyone tell me what the Thais teach the pupils in History?

I really do not know.

Talking about history and geography to all my Thai friends and my wife (and her friends), they all are totally blank about anything outside Thailand. They can hardly point out Thailand on a map.

And English lessons.

A friend of mine is an English teacher in a private school here.

His orders as a teacher is clear.

Nobody will fail in English. Nomatter how badly they perform.

As most of you well travelled people probably have noticed. There are not many countries where the general skills in English is as poor as Thailand.

Of course, some will then argue and say, learn the local language then. As many do.

Nevertheless, if a country wants to participate with rest of the world, then English is needed. Like it or not.

Finally, for those that will probably "shoot me down" now (this is fun), this is NOT a Thailand bashing. I really love this country, as the list of negative things about my home country would probably be veeeery long.

But we discuss Thailand here, right?

[Mid]

seem to remember that on my first visit here it was wise to quickly LEARN the colours of the various notes ,

[keebone]

Can anyone tell me what the Thais teach the pupils in History?

I really do not know.

Talking about history and geography to all my Thai friends and my wife (and her friends), they all are totally blank about anything outside Thailand. They can hardly point out Thailand on a map.

As regards Thai ignorance of their own history I once mentioned something to my GF about the Mon being in Thailand before the Thais and she did not know what I was talking about. She did not know that the Thais came from China originally, something that I've read many times over, and this is from a university educated girl.

[meibanfa]

Maybe this is sad for western Aliens BUT this is Thailand ...be real go home to America and listen to Natonalism in full flight.Who can listen to George W without vomiting ?

Although not a fan of Bush, I would take exceptiion to your generalizations of nationalism in America, especially with respect to language. America has a long history of promoting bilingual education (Lau vs. Nichols 1974). States that have a large minority population such as California, are required to print voting ballots and other government forms in other languages, especially Spanish.

[chinadarling]

"western numbers" are in fact arabic in origin. If The west can adapt and learn from the easy why cannot the east learn from the .. well middle east at least.

Can you imagine trying to use roman numberals on your laptop???

<font color='#000000'>

Another 'nationalist' feature announced today is the educational department requirement that Thai numerals/script be used in all school classes. Not over helpful in a country that relies so greatly on tourism to generate foreign income.

Schools told to use Thai numerals and Buddhist calendar

Sirikul Bunnag

In an attempt to counter Western influences and preserve cultural identity, the Education Ministry has ordered all schools to use Thai numerical figures and the Buddhist Era calendar when teaching the national curriculum.

All agencies under the ministry's control would also be required to use the traditional numerals and calendar in official letters, said education deputy permanent secretary Savitri Suwansathit.

``Thai numerical figures are part of the national identity,'' Ms Savitri said. ``The ministry must play a role in preserving them and promoting their use among students, before they forget what they look like.''

The Curriculum and Instruction Development Department would ensure schools use Thai numerals during all lessons given in Thai language, from first to final grades, to counter Western influences, she said.

Pranee Prabripoo, of the Thai Language Institute, welcomed the move.

``It's time to take seriously the way in which we teach Thai students,'' she said. ``The use of technology such as calculators and computers has encouraged students to abandon Thai numerals. They have become influenced by Western culture.''

Ms Pranee said the trend took off three years ago, when exhibition organisers began adopting the Christian calendar to name events such as Education Fair 2000 and IT 2000, in what she labelled ``the cultural invasion.''

The Education Ministry shared its concerns about the national identity with the Culture Ministry, as well as the House committee on religion, culture and arts.

Culture Ministry official Sucharit Buapim said learning and practising how to write Thai numerals could help students increase their concentration and improve their handwriting.

Unfortunately, though, many students graduated without being able to write Thai numerals as they were not used in universities, he said.

--

Bangkok Post, March 10, 2003</font>

[keebone]

"western numbers" are in fact arabic in origin. If The west can adapt and learn from the easy why cannot the east learn from the .. well middle east at least.

Dont want to split hairs but Arabic numerals actually originate in India and were passed onto the Arab and Persian world before being passed on again to the West by Arabs thus getting their name.

[Neeranam]

๐ ศูนย์ sun 0

๑ หนึ่ง nueng 1

๒ สอง song 2

๓ สาม sam 3

๔ สี่ si 4

๕ ห้า ha 5

๖ หก hok 6

๗ เจ็ด chet 7

๘ แปด paet 8

๙ เก้า kao 9

How many people actually don't know the Thai numerals?

[h90]

Can anyone tell me what the Thais teach the pupils in History?

I really do not know.

Talking about history and geography to all my Thai friends and my wife (and her friends), they all are totally blank about anything outside Thailand. They can hardly point out Thailand on a map.

As regards Thai ignorance of their own history I once mentioned something to my GF about the Mon being in Thailand before the Thais and she did not know what I was talking about. She did not know that the Thais came from China originally, something that I've read many times over, and this is from a university educated girl.

Ask her about the wars Thailand had.....Thailand never started any war, but if there was war it won everything (or the actually king alone killed all enemies) and so on....

Some even tell that Thailand won the second worldwar and battled the Japanese so badly that they were to weak to hold china (really heard that, even complete nonsense)

[keebone]

Can anyone tell me what the Thais teach the pupils in History?

I really do not know.

Talking about history and geography to all my Thai friends and my wife (and her friends), they all are totally blank about anything outside Thailand. They can hardly point out Thailand on a map.

As regards Thai ignorance of their own history I once mentioned something to my GF about the Mon being in Thailand before the Thais and she did not know what I was talking about. She did not know that the Thais came from China originally, something that I've read many times over, and this is from a university educated girl.

Ask her about the wars Thailand had.....Thailand never started any war, but if there was war it won everything (or the actually king alone killed all enemies) and so on....

Some even tell that Thailand won the second worldwar and battled the Japanese so badly that they were to weak to hold china (really heard that, even complete nonsense)

I often tell her that Thailand owes Great Britain gratitude for defeating and colonising Burma thus stopping the series of defeats Thailand/Siam suffered at the hands of its neighbour and that Thailand would of been part of French Indo China if it wasn't for the British presence in Burma and the value of keeping Thailand as a buffer state. Also tell her they should be grateful we didn't treat them as a defeated nation at the end of WWII even though they declared war upon Great Britain.

[Savage]

Funny that, I noticed major cinemas have removed their English option on the phones. Bearing in mind the amount of tourists (as opposed to Expats) that wish to see movies it seemed a little extreme to me?

[Heng]

Let us take the argument a bit further - to *really* preserve Thai culture, why not stop wearing Western clothes and go back to sarongs and bare chests for both sexes? After all that is original Thai culture, is it not? Why not stop driving cars, motorcycles, and riding aeroplanes?

I vote for continued use of cars, motorcycles, and airplanes + continued nationalist hot air and frustrating immigration hoops for foreigners (except for the ones perhaps that are directly involved in the companies that provide us with cars, motorcycles, airplanes, etc.... one really shouldn't confuse a Motorola executive with some Joe Schmoe trying to cling to the coat tails of others' successes... not saying this is you meadish).

[meibanfa]

Some even tell that Thailand won the second worldwar and battled the Japanese so badly that they were to weak to hold china (really heard that, even complete nonsense)

Maybe they are confusing the word "battled" with "collaborated". Funny