Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[brahmburgers]

expert = a former drop of water turned to drizzle at high pressure.

[Chopperboy]

Tokyo (CNN) -- Workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station returned to the plant Friday after a strong aftershock forced them to leave a day earlier, the plant's owner said.

The quake forced crews at the plant to evacuate as it rattled northern Japan late Thursday night. They returned to the plant about eight and a half hours later, and no fresh damage to the facility had been reported Friday afternoon, the Tokyo Electric Power Company said.

Before the quake, engineers had been injecting non-flammable nitrogen into the No. 1 reactor containment shell to counter a buildup of hydrogen in the chamber.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/08/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[Chopperboy]

Nations participating in a conference sponsored by the International Atomic Energy Agency expressed concern over the discharge of water containing a relatively low level of radioactive substances into the sea near the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant.

In addition to the original agenda, however, representatives from participating nations expressed concern over the discharge of contaminated water into the sea by the plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co. They also raised questions concerning the nuclear crisis.

The atmosphere of the meeting clearly illustrated other nations' critical attitude toward Japan, against a backdrop of delays and other problems with the disclosure of information by Japanese organizations and institutions, sources said.

Questions related to the Fukushima No. 1 plant crisis were raised one after another, on such topics as the basic thinking behind Japan's tsunami countermeasures; what Japan's tsunami countermeasures will be in the future; and differences between Japan's quake resistance guidelines and the IAEA's safety standards, Nakamura said.

"I felt (the questions and opinions from other countries' representatives) were not necessarily severe (to Japan)," Nakamura said. "Basically, they just wanted to confirm facts or asked about Japan's basic concept of safety rules," he said.

However, other nations feel strong dissatisfaction toward Japan. A diplomatic source from Vienna said: "Information is slow in coming from Japan."

The IAEA repeatedly has asked Japan to improve the way it conveys information. On Monday the UN agency stationed two additional experts on boiling water reactors in Japan to get the latest information on the Fukushima No. 1 plant situation.

http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=18361

[atsiii]

_{here just another nuke}

_{Thursday's quake damages Onagawa nuclear plant}

_{Tohoku Electric Power Company says Thursday night's strong earthquake caused water to overflow from spent fuel storage pools at one of its nuclear power plants.}

_{The power company reported on Friday that water had spilled onto the floor at all 3 reactors at the Onagawa nuclear power plant in Miyagi Prefecture. The amount of water spilled was 3.8 liters at the most.}

_{The utility firm also found water leaks at 5 locations in the plant, including inside buildings housing the reactors.}

_{The company added that blowout panels--devices designed to control pressure inside the buildings--were damaged at the turbine building of the Number 3 reactor.}

_{The newly reported problems add to the downing of 3 of 4 external power lines at the Onagawa plant. The plant is maintaining its cooling capabilities with the remaining power line.}

_{Tohoku Electric Power Company is continuing its efforts to determine the extent of the damage caused by the latest quake. But it says no change has yet been seen in radiation levels around the plant.}

_{Friday, April 08, 2011 11:59 +0900 (JST) http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/08_20.html}

_{Experts estimate this and that.}

_{Hell,what is an expert? Estimators?}

I'm surprised and now confused (even more): We are generally told that these nuclear power plants located in active seismic zone are essentially "earthquake proof." But now this 7.4 tremor causes measurable damage and concern at this Onagawa Plant? And getting back to Fukushima, the following information was released about the ground acceleration forces experienced during the March 11th 9.0 quake:

TEPCO says 3 of the plant's 6 reactors were shaken on March 11th by tremors exceeding forces they were designed to withstand. Reactor No.2 suffered the largest horizontal ground acceleration of 550 gals, which is 26 percent stronger than the reactor's design limit.

TEPCO says the readings were 548 gals at the No.5 reactor, about 21 percent higher than its design limit; and 507 gals at the No.3 reactor, topping the capacity by about 15 percent. The power company says the strength of ground motions were close to or within the design parameters at the remaining 3 reactors, and at all 4 reactors of the nearby Fukushima Daini nuclear plant.

So my confusion and question (for the local experts, here) is: if the March 11th 9.0 quake exceeded design standards by 15% to 26%, does that mean that the seismic design criteria used for nuclear plants located in the most active seismic zone on earth--the Pacific Rim of Fire--is something a little less than a 9.0 event on the Reciter Scale? Can this be true when there have been 10 to 15 quakes greater than 9.0 since 1900 alone? Is this the same design criteria used for the CA plants?

Does "earthquake proof" mean "up to just about a 9.0 event?"

Edited April 8, 2011 by atsiii

[Chopperboy]

Japan Aftershock Leaves Two Dead, Millions Without Electricity

April 8 (Bloomberg) -- Japan’s biggest aftershock since the day of the March 11 earthquake left two dead and millions without power in the areas hit hardest by last month’s tsunami.

The magnitude-7.1 temblor struck at 11:32 p.m. local time yesterday near the epicenter of last month’s quake, the U.S. Geological Survey reported on its website. About 1.9 million households, mostly in Miyagi and Iwate prefectures, remain without electricity as of 1 p.m. today, said Tohoku Electric Power Co., the main supplier to northern Japan.

“Magnitude-7 level aftershocks may continue to occur even as the frequency of aftershocks will likely fall,” said Yoshihiro Hiramatsu, an associate professor specializing in seismology at Kanazawa University. “Aftershocks will continue for a year or so.”

“Indications of new leakage or a change in radiation levels will be the only way they’ll tell if there’s further damage,” Murray Jennix, a nuclear engineer who specialized in radioactive containment leaks and teaches at San Diego State University, said in a telephone interview. “You’ve got cracks that could have been made bigger.”

Edited April 8, 2011 by Chopperboy

[James3212]

Dumping something into the ocean is about the worst thing that they could do.... Can also someone explain to me why they didnt put the water in an oil tanker??? or just on a regular boat in a container, or oil trucks???

Several reasons:

1. They didn't think of it. Asians in general, are not giants of innovative solutions to problems.

2. They don't want to ruin an oil tanker (economics).

3. What would they then do with a tanker full of water?

4. If the contaminated water kept coming, they would then need additional tankers.

5. Who wants to attach the hoses, and man the ship? Where would it dock?

Thanks for the explanation but i cant believe that they didn't think of something so simple. They have lots of people on there and i guess they should think of something... however it has taken them so long to come up with the fire trucks and other stuff which is very strange

2. Economics? I think that a possible radioactive tsunamis caused by the aftershock that seed plutonium across the land would be more of a problem and the seafood contamination but who knows... =\ TEPCO seems to be in charge...

3. They could use the water to make concrete or take the water to the nuclear waste facility, just as they do with other nuclear contaminated stuff... Or take it to that Russian ship which processes contaminated water... To me it seems that anything is better than dumping it to the ocean =\

4. Yep but one can store really a lot of water, much more than what they have had till now and they could find a plug to the radiation... the alternative would be then just keep pouring contaminated water into the ocean? thats in no way good for the people of Japan and others also ...

5. Ahh yes that might be a problem but i think the lead suits or a lead wall would take care of the particles from the tanker tho i am not an expert... this might be the valid reason that people did not want to drive that oil tanker later to some other place if the water is extremely radioactive in such amounts that a lead wall couldn't defend from it. This i think would be the only valid problem unless if they could mount the remote controlled robots on to it...

Either way its really bad to just dump the things into ocean =\ thanks for the explanation tho but i think if they cant think of this then we should somehow be able to send them suggestions perhaps? just in case they cant think of something like this =\ but they could even google "how to store water" and come up with lots of suggestions i guess... =\ then again so could those people that were throwing trash in the ocean but this is a huge company and you would expect something much better from them...

Edited April 8, 2011 by James3212

[James3212]

For the ones that don't follow NHK...

The operator of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says seawater radiation levels continue to rise in areas north of the plant.

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it detected on Thursday 110 becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per cubic centimeter in seawater samples collected 30 meters from outlets in the northern part of the complex.

The figure is 2,800 times higher than the maximum allowed under government standards. Measurements at the same spot were 600 times the standard on Tuesday and 1,000 times on Wedneday.

In a series of surveys 15 kilometers from the coastline, a reading 9.3 times the national limit was detected north of the plant, off the coast of Minami-soma City.

The government's nuclear safety agency has instructed the Fukushima plant operator to review its monitoring activities, as the radioactive material is likely to be carried northward by ocean currents.

The agency stressed the need to monitor areas of high radiation concentration more closely to clarify possible contamination of the ocean.

Friday, April 08, 2011 21:57 +0900 (JST)

link to the video & article: NHK News

[endure]

How many people have died as a direct result of the Fukushima accident? And how many have died as a result of the earthquake and tsunami that caused that accident?

Anyone have a FACTUAL answer to my question?

[elcent]

Toyota factories to restart April 18

Toyota Motor is to soon resume operation of all of its factories in Japan including group plants in quake-hit Iwate and Miyagi prefectures. The firm stopped operations at all but 2 of its assembly factories after the March 11th earthquake and tsunami.

President Akio Toyoda told reporters on Friday that the resumption will take place on April 18th.

Toyoda said the decision came after Toyota dealers and clients in devastated areas told him that they wanted to restore their normal business as soon as possible.

But he said the company will have difficulty producing as much as it used to, due to shortages of auto parts.

He said the firm will decide whether to continue to operate the factories after the Japanese holiday season in late April and early May.

Toyoda also said the company will review its production plans this month.

Friday, April 08, 2011 17:46 +0900 (JST)

Will we see Honda "Cesium", Toyota "Plutonium", Nissan "Iodine" as the new brands coming soon? I wouldn't be surprised.

[elcent]

By Shinichi Saoshiro and Chisa Fujioka Shinichi Saoshiro And Chisa Fujioka 2 hrs 19 mins agoTOKYO (Reuters) Japan expects to stop pumping radioactive water into the sea from a crippled nuclear plant on Saturday, a day after China expressed concern at the action, reflecting growing international unease over the month-long nuclear crisis.

"The emptying out of the relatively low radiation water is expected to finish tomorrow," a Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) official said late on Friday.

TEPCO is struggling to contain the worst atomic crisis since Chernobyl, with its engineers pumping low-level radioactive seawater, used to cool overheated fuel rods, back into the sea for the past five days due to a lack of storage capacity.

Engineers say they are far from in control of the damaged reactors and it could take months to stabilize them and years to clear up the toxic mess left behind.

Nuclear reactor maker Toshiba Corp has proposed a 10-year plan to decommission four of the six damaged reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo, said Kyodo news agency.

http://news.yahoo.co..._nm/us_japan_62

waiting for round two now ...

Edited April 9, 2011 by elcent

[JetsetBkk]

How many people have died as a direct result of the Fukushima accident? And how many have died as a result of the earthquake and tsunami that caused that accident?

Anyone have a FACTUAL answer to my question?

It's a mammoth job to Google it because all the results I've read so far talk about the "possible", not the "actual", death toll.

So while some anti-nuclear tree-huggers talk about 500,000 dead the actual number I've seen reported is 2. And they were workers caught in an explosion, not killed by radiation.

[Crushdepth]

There's more to it than how many people were killed. They had to evacuate everyone a 20 or 30 kilometre area, they can't sell food produced from contaminated land, its not clear how long it will be before its safe for the residents to move back.

Obviously the tsunami was hugely more devastating in terms of loss of life, but that doesn't mean the problems with the reactors trivial. Especially for the poor bastards cleaning up the mess.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Crushdepth

[katana]

How many people have died as a direct result of the Fukushima accident? And how many have died as a result of the earthquake and tsunami that caused that accident?

I guess as per Chernobyl, in coming years we'll see a rise in cancers, genetic damage and malformed babies etc, the genetic damage being passed on to future generations.

Edited April 9, 2011 by katana

[manarak]

This thread has become boring.

What's the status of the reactors?

Is the risk of a meltdown averted?

Will the Japanese try to salvage them or cover them up in concrete?

What's the assessment?

[warfie]

Friday Morning Update: (Reuters) - Following are main developments after a massive earthquake and tsunami devastated northeast Japan and crippled a nuclear power station, raising the risk of an uncontrolled radiation leak.

* Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the evacuation of residents near the country's stricken nuclear plant will be "long-term".

* Japan will take control of Tokyo Electric Power Co , the operator of the plant, in the face of mounting public concerns over the crisis and a huge potential compensation bill, a domestic newspaper reported on Friday.

* Prime Minister Naoto Kan said the country needed to debate its energy policy based on studies of the Fukushima plant disaster, as anger grows at the ongoing crisis.

* Radiation in water at underground tunnel near reactor 10,000 times above normal. Abnormal level of radioactive caesium found in beef from the area, Kyodo reports.

* UN watchdog suggests widening of the exclusion zone around Fukushima nuclear power station after radiation measured at a village 40 km from the facility exceeded a criterion for evacuation.

* The consistently high levels of radiation found in the sea outside the plant complex may mean that radiation is leaking out continuously, Japan's nuclear watchdog said early Thursday.

* Japan's government may need to spend over 10 trillion yen ($120 billion) in emergency budgets for disaster relief and reconstruction, the country's deputy finance minister, Mitsuru Sakurai, signalled on Thursday.

Would someone please remind me how very economical nuclear power is?

[StreetCowboy]

How many people have died as a direct result of the Fukushima accident? And how many have died as a result of the earthquake and tsunami that caused that accident?

I guess as per Chernobyl, in coming years we'll see a rise in cancers, genetic damage and malformed babies etc, the genetic damage being passed on to future generations.

THe point about catastrophes such as Chernobyl is that although the consequences distant from the plant might be horrendous, they are scarcely perceptible against overall mortality; everyone in Europe will die sooner or later, and it is difficult to identify the hundreds or thousands or millions that might be attributed to Chernobyl. Similarly, apart from a few dozen people involved in the clean-up, it is likely that we will not be able to identify the one or two or dozens or hundreds or thousands killed by the released radiation from Fukushima. Of course, we can pull together anecdotal evidence to support any claim; so I think people will be able see anything that they wish to see. Let's just hope that we don't see the lights going out in Japan...

SC

Interestingly enough, if we look at the really big 'loss of containment', or core release accidents

Windscale

Chernobyl

Fukushima

you might want to put Three Mile Island in there - and maybe the sunken Russian submarine...

Fukushima is the only one directly related to external disaster, and I guess the absence of a 'reckless design failure' for the last twenty-odd years highlights the safety of modern nuclear power stations.

(just a wind-up, lads, I know you don't need told about the efforts that Utilities go to to ensure the safety of their plants)

SC

[StreetCowboy]

There's more to it than how many people were killed. They had to evacuate everyone a 20 or 30 kilometre area, they can't sell food produced from contaminated land, its not clear how long it will be before its safe for the residents to move back.

Obviously the tsunami was hugely more devastating in terms of loss of life, but that doesn't mean the problems with the reactors trivial. Especially for the poor bastards cleaning up the mess.

And also the costs of premature decommissioning.

We really should applaud the courage of those involved in the incident, at a time when I am sure they would far rather have been helping their own families cope with their own personal domestic tsunami disasters - we should be grateful for the discipline and commitment of the Japanese corporate culture.

I wonder how much the charitable donations to the trunami relief funds have been adversely affected by all the negative carping about the nuclear plants?

SC

[JetsetBkk]

Friday Morning Update: (Reuters) - Following are main developments after a massive earthquake and tsunami devastated northeast Japan and crippled a nuclear power station, raising the risk of an uncontrolled radiation leak.

* Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the evacuation of residents near the country's stricken nuclear plant will be "long-term".

* Japan will take control of Tokyo Electric Power Co , the operator of the plant, in the face of mounting public concerns over the crisis and a huge potential compensation bill, a domestic newspaper reported on Friday.

* Prime Minister Naoto Kan said the country needed to debate its energy policy based on studies of the Fukushima plant disaster, as anger grows at the ongoing crisis.

* Radiation in water at underground tunnel near reactor 10,000 times above normal. Abnormal level of radioactive caesium found in beef from the area, Kyodo reports.

* UN watchdog suggests widening of the exclusion zone around Fukushima nuclear power station after radiation measured at a village 40 km from the facility exceeded a criterion for evacuation.

* The consistently high levels of radiation found in the sea outside the plant complex may mean that radiation is leaking out continuously, Japan's nuclear watchdog said early Thursday.

* Japan's government may need to spend over 10 trillion yen ($120 billion) in emergency budgets for disaster relief and reconstruction, the country's deputy finance minister, Mitsuru Sakurai, signalled on Thursday.

Would someone please remind me how very economical nuclear power is?

Would you like me to remind you that the cost stated is for "emergency budgets for post-quake disaster relief and reconstruction".

Note: the additional "post-quake" which for some strange reason Reuters decided to delete from their headline.

Now why do you think they did that?

[katana]

...THe point about catastrophes such as Chernobyl is that although the consequences distant from the plant might be horrendous, they are scarcely perceptible against overall mortality; everyone in Europe will die sooner or later, and it is difficult to identify the hundreds or thousands or millions that might be attributed to Chernobyl.

When someone in the affected region gets cancer, they might not be so inclined to dismiss it as 'scarcely perceptible'. Also, you have to wonder if people downplaying the danger would be willing to live in an area of fallout and eat the locally grown food there.

Cancer estimates vary, but here are a few estimates from various sources.

A low estimate from an argubly biased source, the International Atomic Energy Agency, claims:

...that only 56 people have died as a direct result of the radiation released at Chernobyl and that about 4,000 will die from it eventually...

Higher estimates from sources with less of a vested interest:

...The International Agency for Research on Cancer, another UN agency, predicts 16,000 deaths from Chernobyl; an assessment by the Russian academy of sciences says there have been 60,000 deaths so far in Russia and an estimated 140,000 in Ukraine and Belarus.

Meanwhile, the Belarus national academy of sciences estimates 93,000 deaths so far and 270,000 cancers, and the Ukrainian national commission for radiation protection calculates 500,000 deaths so far...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/10/chernobyl-nuclear-deaths-cancers-dispute

[StreetCowboy]

...THe point about catastrophes such as Chernobyl is that although the consequences distant from the plant might be horrendous, they are scarcely perceptible against overall mortality; everyone in Europe will die sooner or later, and it is difficult to identify the hundreds or thousands or millions that might be attributed to Chernobyl.

When someone in the affected region gets cancer, they might not be so inclined to dismiss it as 'scarcely perceptible'. Also, you have to wonder if people downplaying the danger would be willing to live in an area of fallout and eat the locally grown food there.

Cancer estimates vary, but here are a few estimates from various sources.

A low estimate from an argubly biased source, the International Atomic Energy Agency, claims:

...that only 56 people have died as a direct result of the radiation released at Chernobyl and that about 4,000 will die from it eventually...

Higher estimates from sources with less of a vested interest:

...The International Agency for Research on Cancer, another UN agency, predicts 16,000 deaths from Chernobyl; an assessment by the Russian academy of sciences says there have been 60,000 deaths so far in Russia and an estimated 140,000 in Ukraine and Belarus.

Meanwhile, the Belarus national academy of sciences estimates 93,000 deaths so far and 270,000 cancers, and the Ukrainian national commission for radiation protection calculates 500,000 deaths so far...

http://www.guardian....cancers-dispute

You may infer whatever, but I think I implied what you just said - we cannot know the final fatalities, since some (a few ? a lot ? most ?) will occur remote from the site, and be imperceptible against the background. One person killed in a road accident is a clear tragedy to the family concerned, regardless of the thousands of other people killed in road tragedies; and similarly, one person killed due to cancer caused by chernobyl (or fukushima or windscale or nagasaki or samutprakarn) is a tragedy; but there are so many people die of cancer, that we cannot identify which specific individual was killed by Samutprakarn or Nagasaki or Chernobyl.... discounting the poeple who were killed by short-term radiation poisioning...

Unlike road accidents, fatalities from modest levels of radiation occur long after the incident...

SC

[unblocktheplanet]

Losses from Japan's nuclear accident are estimated at $235 billion by the World Bank and $700-800 billion by Switzerland, the most expensive accident in history, and will probably rise. The US Hurricane Katrina (2009) only cost $45 billion. During Katrina, the Waterford nuclear plant lost all power, a near-miss nuclear accident which went all but unreported. It may shock readers to learn that Japan is actually the world's greatest debtor nation, at 200% of GDP, surpassing even Zimbabwe. There is a fair chance Fukushima will bankrupt a first-world nation.

Decommissioning 'containment' for Chernobyl cost $140 million dollars in 1992 (the meltdown occurred in 1986) and $1.4 billion for its more recent replacement begun in 2004 (which will not be complete until 2013) which itself will need replacement in only ten more years…10,000 more times for the next 100,000 years. And these are costs for just one reactor.

Maybe we don't trust the World Bank. Maybe less Swiss bankers. But "premature decommissioning", StreetCowboy? These suckers were 40 years old and ready for the scrap heap, tsunami or no. But, as usual, nuke operators will try to shake down the sympathies of the world and protect their profit margin...but not people. TEPCO’s motto: “Tough luck, suckers! Shigatakanai..."

[ronz28]

Putzmeister pumps are on their way....

[elcent]

Radioactive water disposal delayed

Work to dispose of highly radioactive water at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is not proceeding smoothly as more time is needed for preparations.

Heavily contaminated water in turbine buildings and a concrete tunnel is hampering work to restore cooling functions in the troubled reactors. The total amount of water in question is estimated at more than 50,000 tons.

The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, plans to transfer the highly radioactive water to a nuclear waste processing facility and turbine condensers.

The utility firm is now working to lay hoses between the turbine buildings and the facility.

Holes have already been bored in the walls of the buildings, but work to install the hoses has yet to begin.

In addition, the waste disposal facility needs to be closely checked before the procedure can begin.

Meanwhile, the level of highly radioactive water filling the concrete tunnel of the No.2 reactor had reached 93 centimeters below the ground's surface as of Saturday evening. That is a rise of 11 centimeters since the leakage of the water into the sea was stopped on Wednesday.

Tokyo Electric plans to start moving the water in the tunnel into the reactor's condenser as early as Sunday.

http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/10_03.html

for how many decades will the water in the reactors raise and discharged? How many millions/billions tons? Do they want to cook us?

The damge will be much higher than $700 - $800 billion. It will go into multiple trillions of $$$.

compare with a rather conservative fall-out from Chernobyls reactor accident in Belarus ...

Damage of Belarus from catastrophe on Chernobyl APS is worth USD 235 billion.

This information was published by the Ministry for Emergency Situations. The most expenses fall at the support of production and safety measures. This is USD 192 billion. Another USD 30 billion fall at collateral losses of the economy. Denied profit is worth another USD 13 billion. Mineral deposits, enterprises, forests and more than 2,000 square kilometers of croplands have fallen out of the economic turnover. http://www.tvr.by/en...cs.asp?id=45647

After all I don't think we will economically and ecologically survive the nuclear age ...

I expect more earthquakes and even some that will even rip huge mountains appart.

Edited April 10, 2011 by elcent

[elcent]

Putzmeister pumps are on their way....

If only the Japenese wouldn't have refused this help for soooooooo long.

[Lite Beer]

Japan minister urges quick disposal of radioactive water

Tokyo - Highly contaminated water in a reactor building at the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant must be moved to a waste disposal facility, Japan's industrial minister said Sunday

"We must move highly contaminated water at reactor number 2 and elsewhere to a radioactive waste processing facility as soon as possible without leaking it into the sea," Banri Kaieda said after his first visit to the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Saturday.

"The plant chief said it must be given the priority right now and I agree with him."

Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) was expected to complete the release of relatively low-level radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean from the disposal facility at the plant that was crippled by a March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

That measure was to free up space for the even more contaminated water that had been leaking into the sea. The massive amount of such contaminated water at the site had hampered work to stabilize the stricken plant.

The plant's electrical systems were knocked down by the March disaster and its cooling functions failed, leading to fires, blasts and radiation leaks.

TEPCO started on Monday to dump relatively low-level radioactive water, with a density as high as 1,000 times the legal limit, into the ocean. The amount of the release is expected to a total of 10,000 tons, compared with the initial plan of 11,500 tons, Jiji Press said.

Despite the threat of radiation, more evacuees were temporarily returning to their homes in the exclusion zone near the plant to collect belongings, a news report said Sunday.

The government has asked those living within the 20-kilometre zone of the plant to evacuate the area and those in the 20-30 km ring to stay indoors or "voluntarily leave" the area.

"Even if I want to start a new life, I just don't have money and get no support from the authorities," one resident who recently went back to his house in the zone was quoted by Kyodo News agency as saying. "There was no other option."

Just before entering the zone, the man, his sister and cousin wore two layers of raincoats, gloves, masks and shoes covered with plastic bags, Kyodo said. Many people entered the zone through back roads so that they would not be stopped by the police.

The city of Minami Soma in the 20- to 30-kilometre zone plans to resume schools in late April as residents return, Kyodo said.

Among 6,000 pupils in the zone, around 1,700 are still staying within the area. But many school buildings in the city were damaged by the quake and not ready for reopening at a time when the new school year started.

The city is to utilize four school buildings confirmed safe just outside the zone.//DPA

-- The Nation 2011-04-10

[elcent]

Japan minister urges quick disposal of radioactive water

Tokyo - Highly contaminated water in a reactor building at the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant must be moved to a waste disposal facility, Japan's industrial minister said Sunday

"We must move highly contaminated water at reactor number 2 and elsewhere to a radioactive waste processing facility as soon as possible without leaking it into the sea," Banri Kaieda said after his first visit to the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Saturday.

"The plant chief said it must be given the priority right now and I agree with him."

Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) was expected to complete the release of relatively low-level radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean from the disposal facility at the plant that was crippled by a March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

That measure was to free up space for the even more contaminated water that had been leaking into the sea. The massive amount of such contaminated water at the site had hampered work to stabilize the stricken plant.

The plant's electrical systems were knocked down by the March disaster and its cooling functions failed, leading to fires, blasts and radiation leaks.

TEPCO started on Monday to dump relatively low-level radioactive water, with a density as high as 1,000 times the legal limit, into the ocean. The amount of the release is expected to a total of 10,000 tons, compared with the initial plan of 11,500 tons, Jiji Press said.

Despite the threat of radiation, more evacuees were temporarily returning to their homes in the exclusion zone near the plant to collect belongings, a news report said Sunday.

The government has asked those living within the 20-kilometre zone of the plant to evacuate the area and those in the 20-30 km ring to stay indoors or "voluntarily leave" the area.

"Even if I want to start a new life, I just don't have money and get no support from the authorities," one resident who recently went back to his house in the zone was quoted by Kyodo News agency as saying. "There was no other option."

Just before entering the zone, the man, his sister and cousin wore two layers of raincoats, gloves, masks and shoes covered with plastic bags, Kyodo said. Many people entered the zone through back roads so that they would not be stopped by the police.

The city of Minami Soma in the 20- to 30-kilometre zone plans to resume schools in late April as residents return, Kyodo said.

Among 6,000 pupils in the zone, around 1,700 are still staying within the area. But many school buildings in the city were damaged by the quake and not ready for reopening at a time when the new school year started.

The city is to utilize four school buildings confirmed safe just outside the zone.//DPA

-- The Nation 2011-04-10

Interesting statements that leaves more questions than answers.

What/where is elsewhere?

radioactive waste processing facility? - Do they have one and what are the capacities? This all smell like foul statments.

Relatively low radiation waters have been released to the sea. - What is relatively?

Stabelize? That means that meltdown is continuing at this point?

In other words no accomplishments yet.

I think we're lied at again.

[elcent]

A goof read at NYT - The man who baby-sits Chernobyl http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/weekinreview/20chernobyl.html?_r=1&hp

CHERNOBYL, Ukraine — Twelve times a month — the maximum number of shifts the doctors will allow — Sergei A. Krasikov takes a train across the no man’s land and reports for work at a structure enclosing Reactor No. 4 known as “the sarcophagus.”

if (typeof NYTDVideoManager != "undefined") { NYTDVideoManager.setAllowMultiPlayback(false); } function displayCompanionBanners(banners, tracking) { tmDisplayBanner(banners, "videoAdContent", 300, 250, null, tracking); }

Joseph Sywenkyj for The New York Times

Ghost Town Pripyat once had a population of about 50,000 people. They were given a few hours to evacuate in April 1986.

Among his tasks is to pump out radioactive liquid that has collected inside the burned-out reactor. This happens whenever it rains. The sarcophagus was built 25 years ago in a panic, as radiation streamed into populated areas after an explosion at the reactor, and now it is riddled with cracks.

Water cannot be allowed to touch the thing that is deep inside the reactor: about 200 tons of melted nuclear fuel and debris, which burned through the floor and hardened, in one spot, into the shape of an elephant’s foot. This mass remains so highly radioactive that scientists cannot approach it. But years ago, when they managed to place measurement instruments nearby, they got readings of 10,000 rem per hour, which is 2,000 times the yearly limit recommended for workers in the nuclear industry.

Mr. Krasikov, who has broad shoulders and a clear, blue-eyed gaze, has been baby-sitting this monster for eight years. He’ll stay until he is pensioned off and then leave his job to another man, who will stay until he is pensioned off. Asked how long this will continue, Mr. Krasikov shrugged.

“A hundred years?” he ventured. “Maybe in that time they will invent something.”

The death of a nuclear reactor has a beginning; the world is watching this unfold now on the coast of Japan. But it doesn’t have an end.

While some radioactive elements in nuclear fuel decay quickly, cesium’s half-life is 30 years and strontium’s is 29 years. Scientists estimate that it takes 10 to 13 half-lives before life and economic activity can return to an area. That means that the contaminated area — designated by Ukraine’s Parliament as 15,000 square miles, around the size of Switzerland — will be affected for more than 300 years. All last week, workers frantically tried to cool the six reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant 140 miles north of Tokyo. But one had to look at Ukraine to understand the sheer tedium and exhaustion of dealing with the aftermath of a meltdown. It is a problem that does not exist on a human time frame.

Volodymyr P. Udovychenko drove to Ukraine’s Parliament building on Tuesday, dressed in a shiny purple shirt and tie. He is the mayor of Slavutych, which is home to most of the 3,400 workers who are still employed at the Chernobyl Atomic Energy Station. Most of them have not received their full salaries since January, and the mayor was requesting $3.6 million to pay them. “The leadership turns away from this, they think that Chernobyl doesn’t exist,” he said. “Chernobyl does exist. And those 200 tons — they also exist.”

To visit Chernobyl today is to feel time passing.

In Pripyat, the plant workers’ former bedroom community, a little over a mile from the plant, where 50,000 people were given a few hours to evacuate, wallpaper has slipped down under its own weight and paint has peeled away from apartment walls in fat curls. Ice glazes the interiors. On a residential street, where Soviet housing blocks tower in every direction, it is quiet enough to hear the sound of individual leaves brushing against branches.

The wild world is gradually pressing its way in. Anton Yukhimenko, who leads tours of the dead zone, said that wild boars and foxes had begun to take shelter in the abandoned city, and that once, skirting a forest, he noticed a wolf soundlessly loping along beside him. Not long ago, one of the city’s major buildings, School No. 1, came crashing down, its supporting structures finally rotted out by 25 winters and summers.

“This is a city that has been captured by wilderness,” he said. “I think in 20 years it will be one big forest.”

The public is not allowed within 18 miles of Reactor No. 4, but a photographer and I made the journey last week with Chernobylinterinform, a division of Ukraine’s Emergency Ministry. At the checkpoint leading to the exclusion zone, there is a small statue of the Virgin Mary and a placard listing the amounts of cesium and strontium found in mushrooms, fish and wild game.

At the six-mile radius begins the zone of mandatory resettlement. A stand of scorched-looking trees marks the so-called Red Forest, after the color of dead pines that were bulldozed en masse and buried in trenches. As we approached the plant, the guides’ radiation detector suddenly registered 1,500 microrem — 50 times normal, they said, perhaps because we had been caught by a gust of wind.

At the center of it all is the sarcophagus, its sides uneven and streaked with rust.

Since the early 1990s, Ukrainian officials have been working on a plan to replace it, finally launching a project called the New Safe Confinement, a 300-foot steel arch that will enclose and seal off the reactor for the next 100 years. Its cost is estimated at $1.4 billion, to be paid largely by donor nations. The project, originally scheduled to be finished in 2005, has been beset by delays and financing shortfalls.

In the meantime, the winter’s snows are turning to rain, and rainwater leaking into the reactor could have unpredictable results, said Stephan G. Robinson, a nuclear physicist who works for Green Cross Switzerland, an environmental organization.

“In winter, it will freeze,” said Dr. Robinson, who was touring the site last week. “Water expands, and it breaks. Then maybe some of the inside collapses. A little cloud disappears through a crack. If there’s rain, it means there is a way in. And if there is a way in, there is also a way out.”

But even after the new arch is built, Mr. Krasikov doubts that it will be possible to end the long vigil over Reactor No. 4.

“Nobody knows what to do with what is inside,” he said. “There will be enough work for my children and my grandchildren.”

By evening, on our way out of the site, light is tilting through the pine forests, a peaceful enough scene except for the vivid yellow-and-orange triangles planted in the forest floor, warning of radiation. Workers stream out through a wall of man-sized Geiger counters, each one waiting for the machine to thunk and flash green before making his or her way out of the exclusion zone and down the battered highway.

Tomorrow, they will come back to Chernobyl Atomic Energy Station for another day of work.

[elcent]

An Israeli nuclear expert has accused Japan of downplaying the danger of a nuclear calamity in the region of its quake-stricken Fukushima Daiichi plant.

‘If there is fallout of plutonium oxide, a most toxic substance that they use in the reactor that exploded, no one will be able to set foot on the site for thousands of years,’ said Uzi Even, one of Israel’s most prominent nuclear scientists, who worked at the country’s Dimona reactor in the southern Negev desert.

‘The Japanese aren’t telling the truth because of shame,’ he told the Ma’ariv daily.

The Israeli chemistry professor believed the Japanese government was hiding facts.

‘In my assessment, the damage is liable to be far more extensive in scope than is being reported and for a very long period of time,’ Even said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110410/ts_afp/japandisasteraccidentnuclear_20110410042717;_ylt=AjNfZ5nBkyfEX7ONgJtdOm4AS5Z4#mwpphu-container

[manarak]

A goof read at NYT - The man who baby-sits Chernobyl http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/weekinreview/20chernobyl.html?_r=1&hp

CHERNOBYL, Ukraine —

...

Water cannot be allowed to touch the thing that is deep inside the reactor: about 200 tons of melted nuclear fuel and debris, which burned through the floor and hardened, in one spot, into the shape of an elephant’s foot. This mass remains so highly radioactive that scientists cannot approach it. But years ago, when they managed to place measurement instruments nearby, they got readings of 10,000 rem per hour, which is 2,000 times the yearly limit recommended for workers in the nuclear industry.

...

This version is the official justification for spending nearly a billion EUR to build a new roof for Chernobyl, mostly financed by the EU.

But the report "der Millionensarg" (in German) casts serious doubts on the official version, as well as on the usefulness of such construction.

The report (by ZDF if I remember well) shows that the radiation level inside the chernobyl reactor are relatively low, that the "elephant foot" is not as radioactive as expected, because there is almost no nuclear fuel left. The theory is that most (over 90%) of the fuel was expelled into the atmosphere by the explosion and fires, while the offical version says 97% is still inside. But if it is inside, where is the radiation?

Elcent, watch the report if you got a chance.

You should be able to find it as a download.

[animatic]

...THe point about catastrophes such as Chernobyl is that although the consequences distant from the plant might be horrendous, they are scarcely perceptible against overall mortality; everyone in Europe will die sooner or later, and it is difficult to identify the hundreds or thousands or millions that might be attributed to Chernobyl.

When someone in the affected region gets cancer, they might not be so inclined to dismiss it as 'scarcely perceptible'. Also, you have to wonder if people downplaying the danger would be willing to live in an area of fallout and eat the locally grown food there.

Cancer estimates vary, but here are a few estimates from various sources.

A low estimate from an argubly biased source, the International Atomic Energy Agency, claims:

...that only 56 people have died as a direct result of the radiation released at Chernobyl and that about 4,000 will die from it eventually...

Higher estimates from sources with less of a vested interest:

...The International Agency for Research on Cancer, another UN agency, predicts 16,000 deaths from Chernobyl; an assessment by the Russian academy of sciences says there have been 60,000 deaths so far in Russia and an estimated 140,000 in Ukraine and Belarus.

Meanwhile, the Belarus national academy of sciences estimates 93,000 deaths so far and 270,000 cancers, and the Ukrainian national commission for radiation protection calculates 500,000 deaths so far...

http://www.guardian....cancers-dispute

You may infer whatever, but I think I implied what you just said - we cannot know the final fatalities, since some (a few ? a lot ? most ?) will occur remote from the site, and be imperceptible against the background. One person killed in a road accident is a clear tragedy to the family concerned, regardless of the thousands of other people killed in road tragedies; and similarly, one person killed due to cancer caused by chernobyl (or fukushima or windscale or nagasaki or samutprakarn) is a tragedy; but there are so many people die of cancer, that we cannot identify which specific individual was killed by Samutprakarn or Nagasaki or Chernobyl.... discounting the poeple who were killed by short-term radiation poisioning...

Unlike road accidents, fatalities from modest levels of radiation occur long after the incident...

SC

But they still occur and that really is the point.

I wouldn't care specifically when I was killed by nuclear fallout if I was killed by it. Sure better later than immediately of course, but better NOT AT ALL. I would very much care that I was being killed by preventable nuclear control acts, performed badly. And worse still if it was to make somebody 'save face'.

This is the most sobering and likely least biased report from above.

"...the Russian academy of sciences says there have been 60,000 deaths so far in Russia and an estimated 140,000 in Ukraine and Belarus.."

It appears many countries are not thinking Japan is being forth coming with information, and that maybe to forestall a huge public panic, but they makes one think... What are they not saying that is so scary?

How much radio active iodine in the food chain of the sea

is known to be acceptable?

Will it cause genetic glitches before it decays adequately?

Will those be passed on and up the food chain.

How much plutonium in the food chain of the sea

is known to be acceptable?

How much genetic damage in procreating sea creatures

on their migratory routes is deemed 'aceptable'?

Will there be inherited tendencies to sterility in sea life that will cause inevitable die offs? WIll this significantly affect the over all food chain.

Do the Japanese even have proper info to address these questions?

And if so do they truly understand the answers?

Someone above said this topic has grown boring.

God help us all if this is only good for 15 minutes of fame and back to the status quo. Game shows and reality programing that drags us from actual reality.

Edited April 10, 2011 by animatic