Which Qualification..?

[Tyfon]

Hi Folks, a quick intro., this being my first post, before the main question.

I am a (nearly)43-year-old scientist with a degree (biology and physics) and masters (physiology) who has spent the last 13 years as a researcher in major British medical schools (Birmingham, Imperial College London) studying the developing visual system in humans (especially eye disease in premature babies). I have extensive experience in working in both university (research) and hospital environments, always had a hankering to teach, but little opportunity other than occasional lab demonstrations. I have published my research extensively in major international journals (Lancet, Archives of Ophthalmology, British Journal of Ophthalmology)

I am truly heart-sick with my existence in London - miserable people, dreadful environment, crime, no police, and with the NHS attitude to those who try to 'help from the outside'. In January my entire research group moved to a non-medical university with a pretty poor environment. My health is suffering, my boss is retiring and I want out.

So I want to take a TEFL/TESOL or similar course, but which one? There are courses here in London for about GBP900 moderated by 'Trinity' (e.g. htp://www.tefleurope.com) - is this a good standard, internationally recognised? Would it give me any advantage over other schools that seem to issue their own certificates? I naturally shy away from the online courses, but should I?

Also, I see courses offered in Thailand (e.g. http://teflintl.com/thailand_banphe.htm) with lodging for similar prices (airfare extra), but again would these qualifications be more or less valued, not just in Thailand but other countries in Asia and Europe?

As I see it I could quit, sell up and take a course in Thailand (where I am familiar and comfortable with the culture) or do my part-time course here in London and then seek a job in Bangkok or nearby, then quit, sell up and move to get those vital first couple of years experience.

So, in summary what course or moderation should I take to give me the best qualification for a running start in the Thai market with a view to working elsewhere later on?

Many thanks, in advance, for your help and advice.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Tyfon

[chownah]

Do you speak English? If so just bring copies of your degrees with you and you can get a job teaching English....actually the degrees are optional...speaking English is all it really takes....if you get all those teaching credentials it will just help you to get a better job (better working conditions) and/or more pay. Of course you could take some courses to learn how to teach and I guess that's the idea behind getting the teaching credentials...but whenever you talk about the various options you have, you always seem to only be thinking about which one is most recognized...you never seem to be concerned about which one would actually help prepare you the best for teaching....sooooo if I'm correct about this and you are not worried about learning how to teach but only want credentials then you probably don't really need to do anything but to just show up here with a smile and a good attitude.

[mbkudu]

All the degrees you have will easily get you a job with work permit and legal status

but a good tefl course will show you how to teach. I would avoid the online courses. The only good thing about them is that they are cheap, but they will help you little in way of practice. I can only recommmend one, the Cambridge CELTA,

because that's the one I took. It is $US 1,400, very demanding and stressful, but you will learn it the right way and get a lot of monitored teaching practice out of it.

The instructors (Bangkok, Siam Square) in my opinion were excellent. There are other posters here who say that Text and Talk in Bangkok is good as well; cheaper, less stressful. Many of them are not worth the paper they are printed on.

[Tyfon]

Thanks for taking the time to reply chownah and mbkudu.

It does seem I have been a little unclear. Of course I want a good course that will prepare me, as much as reasonably possible, for teaching in Thailand and elsewhere. In my limited mind a widely recognised qualification will be accepted because it is from a reputable institutution, is of good quality and produces well prepared teachers. If I were hiring my replacement I would take an Oxford graduate, because of their overall reputation, over a University of Middle-of-Nowhere graduate, all other things being equal.

What I want to avoid are pieces of paper which, as mbkudu puts it, "...are not worth the paper they are printed on."

I understand that I could in theory, just turn up in LOS and find something, but I do want it to be entirely legitimate and be equipped to do the job well. I have always exceeded my employers expectations of me in every stage of my science career, but this is a big change for me and it needs to be done right first time.

mbkudu: I will look at the CELTA, perhaps some here in the UK too. That's what I'm looking for, "the good TEFL course" that will maximise my chances of suceeding in this new career. Thanks again.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Tyfon

[mbkudu]

Thanks for taking the time to reply chownah and mbkudu.

It does seem I have been a little unclear. Of course I want a good course that will prepare me, as much as reasonably possible, for teaching in Thailand and elsewhere. In my limited mind a widely recognised qualification will be accepted because it is from a reputable institutution, is of good quality and produces well prepared teachers. If I were hiring my replacement I would take an Oxford graduate, because of their overall reputation, over a University of Middle-of-Nowhere graduate, all other things being equal.

What I want to avoid are pieces of paper which, as mbkudu puts it, "...are not worth the paper they are printed on."

I understand that I could in theory, just turn up in LOS and find something, but I do want it to be entirely legitimate and be equipped to do the job well. I have always exceeded my employers expectations of me in every stage of my science career, but this is a big change for me and it needs to be done right first time.

mbkudu: I will look at the CELTA, perhaps some here in the UK too. That's what I'm looking for, "the good TEFL course" that will maximise my chances of suceeding in this new career. Thanks again.

You will not be disappointed with it. If you have the money and the time, it can't be beat in my opinion. The cost and intensive nature of the course is what turns the meek and unprepared away, but if you are looking for the best and most recognised, it's the one to do. There are two CELTA courses in Thailand, ECC and one other (don't know the name). The ECC in Siam Square is easy to get to and the instuctors and staff top notch. I think they offer one in Phuket as well.

Good luck. Mbk

Edited September 17, 2005 by mbkudu

[Tyfon]

You will not be disappointed with it. If you have the money and the time, it can't be beat in my opinion. The cost and intensive nature of the course is what turns the meek and unprepared away, but if you are looking for the best and most recognised, it's the one to do. There are two CELTA courses in Thailand, ECC and one other (don't know the name). The ECC in Siam Square is easy to get to and the instuctors and staff top notch. I think they offer one in Phuket as well.

Good luck. Mbk

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, you originaly called it the Cambridge CELTA - so is it moderated from the UK? Does that mean it is well recognised in other countries should I decide to travel later? I'm off to Google them now

Is that http://www.cactuslanguage.com ?

Many thanks, again.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Tyfon

[Bluffer]

What do you actually want to do?

Teach English or a science subject?

With your background, if you want to teach a science subject you can walk straight into a middle level bilingual program. maybe even a lower level international school, or even a proper international school. (most of the high levels want proper teachers with PGCEs ) There are not that many science degree holders here.

To teach your subject, you wont need a TEFL/TESOL course.

If you want to teach english then yes, a TEFL course will help you prepare for what you need to do. Its up to you whether you want to do the Trinity in the uk or the CELTA here. If you want to do the course here, there are 2 I would do, the CELTA or the TEFL Intl TESOL course in Ban Phe ( Which was originally a Trinity course if I remember right) which I did.

on a personal level, i would do the course here. it gives you a bit of an insite of what it is like to live here and lets you bed in so to speak.

[Tyfon]

Thanks Bluffer,

I have somehow got the idea that teaching science in LOS would not be so easy to get into for me as I have no specific teaching qualifications and such would be required, as they are in the UK. Of course, I know anything is possible in Thailand, but I really want to play by the rules as far as possible - at my age I can't really take chances.

The TESOL route, I hoped, would present a wider range of career options, not just in LOS but worldwide. I also have the impression that science teachers - unqualified teachers - were lower paid and not so in demand: Am I mistaken?

The plan I am beginning to formulate is to 1) Take a CELTA/TESOL course 2) Settle in to making a living and gaining experience. 3) Perhaps presenting myself to nearby and not-so-nearby Universities and Hospitals offering my experience in scientific research and publication to encourage and help their researchers in preparing papers for submission to international (English language) journals. That might, just might, give me the change and flexibility I need while making some use of my previous experience.

I'd looked at the Ban Phe course (http://teflintl.com/ right?), that was the one that originally had me thinking of dropping everything and training in LOS, but I'm not clear on how widely recognised their cert. is. It doesn't explicitly say it's Cambridge CELTA.

Anyway thanks again for your input

[paulfr]

I have somehow got the idea that teaching science in LOS would not be so easy to get into for me as I have no specific teaching qualifications and such would be required, as they are in the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With your credentials, you can get a science teaching easily. The benefit to you is that most 'tech' teachers get an extra 10KTHB per month, sometimes more. There are not that many well qualified teachers here in LOS as was said. You do not need a TEFL, but it would help to be aware of how teaching English here is much different than any teaching you have ever done or seen. This will make you a better science teacher too. I teach Math and it sure has helped me.

Another option you have is to land a job with an international school (they pay much better) BEFORE you come here. They pay much larger salaries to those they recruit overseas than they will pay to someone already here, in most cases. We are talking pay of 100KTHB to 150KTHB vs 40 - 60 KTHB here. Find a job fair and try to land a position that way if you can .... sounds like you do have the time to invest. Sometimes they require Education degrees, but not always. Taking the CELTA there in London would definitely help. This is the golden path into teaching in LOS, and the extra pay will make your life much more comfortable.

Good Luck

Edited September 17, 2005 by paulfr

[mbkudu]

This will make you a better science teacher too. I teach Math and it sure has helped me.

This is a key point. A CELTA/TEFL will get you started on how to teach. It is really irrelevant that the course is centered in English language teaching. You could apply what you learn to any subject, whether it is English, science, math, history, ect. Just pay for one that is worthwhile or you'll be wasting your time.

[mbkudu]

OK, you originaly called it the Cambridge CELTA - so is it moderated from the UK? Does that mean it is well recognised in other countries should I decide to travel later? I'm off to Google them now

It is very closely moderated by Cambridge in the UK. At the end of every course a representative from Cambridge is flown out to inspect and observe the learning and the teaching. When I took it last July a representative spent the whole day looking over everything: our assignments, portfolios, records, and observed our teaching practice. She also scutinizes the instuctors as well. From what I have heard and read the CELTA is more recognised worldwide than any other. Some of the other courses stress that they are more Thailand focused, but I'm not sure how important this is.

[Ijustwannateach]

You know, one doctorate I might almost have swallowed. But I'm filing this one in the "laugh bin." C'mon, folks, this is clearly an attempt to bait people into starting up the TEFL flame wars- "which is better/more recognized, CELTA, TEFL," blah, blah, blah. Nice try, Smeg.

Of course, I could be wrong. Here's a little question for you (since you're so interested in opthamalogy): What's the difference in the thin-lens equation applied to contact lenses and glasses for near-sighted people? What's the relationship of the diopter rating for the lens to this equation? Please answer in your own words- I'm sure you don't have to link to a website, considering you're so smart and all.

"Steven"

[Tyfon]

...since you're so interested in opthamalogy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sufficiently interested to be able to spell it correctly - ophthalmology.

One weekend and already I have an entry in my ignore list

Anyone wishing to check my publication record may do so through any PubMed portal (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/) and search for "cocker kd" - those are just the ones in journals that PubMed list.

Thanks, once again, to all of you who have given me some useful ideas - I was getting a little lost in the matrix of schools/qualifications/opportunities. I feel I'm getting a better handle on that now.

The private schools idea is a bit of a curve-ball; I had abandoned hope there since they all seem to demand high-end teaching qualifications and experience of UK teaching. Perhaps this bluster? I've put a resume on www.isat.or.th as a first step. The idea that being recruited from London rather than on the ground, so to speak, could double my salary seems weird, but then again TIT

Once again, thanks to all (but one)...

[Ijustwannateach]

I knew when I posted that I hadn't spelled it correctly. That was part of your test- which you passed. The other part was answering my relatively simple question, which you have not. Anyone can "pretend" to be a published person- I just have to look up a name. If your qualifications were truly what you say they were, my question would have been a relatively simple matter.

Too bad, Smeg. Try again next time.

"Steven"

[mijan246]

I knew when I posted that I hadn't spelled it correctly.  That was part of your test- which you passed.  The other part was answering my relatively simple question, which you have not.  Anyone can "pretend" to be a published person- I just have to look up a name.  If your qualifications were truly what you say they were, my question would have been a relatively simple matter.

Too bad, Smeg.  Try again next time.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Steven" "Steven" Quote spelled[/b] it correctly]Endquote - try this spelt it correctly?.

Your stocks have hit rock bottom! What makes you think you have the right to level unsubstansiated allegations . A super member you may be (super purely by number of posts) get down off your high horse your not admin nor moderator you are a member with aspirations that are obvious.

OP I am sure that some of the answers to your post will benefit some members sometime somewhere.

Edited September 18, 2005 by mijan246

[Ijustwannateach]

I asked a simple question. I can provide the answer myself, if anyone's interested (without using an internet link). I'll try not to let your opinion of my "stocks" (this is usually used as an uncountable in this idiom, by the way) keep me from sleeping too much.

This kind of thread is a common type of Smeg ploy (to get people arguing about TEFL threads, his special monomania). I'd say it's MUCH MORE LIKELY that it's a Smeg ploy than that a person of the OP's alleged quals is for real in this case. If he is for real, my question should pose no challenge at all for him.

Oh, since he has a Bio qualification too, being a doctor and all- can you tell us why we can see easily through goggles underwater but not so well with the naked eye? Oh, why are telephoto lenses long?

Should pose no trouble, no trouble at all for a talented optical/medical researcher. I should be put to shame with the speed of your replies.

"Steven"

[mbkudu]

I knew when I posted that I hadn't spelled it correctly.  That was part of your test- which you passed.  The other part was answering my relatively simple question, which you have not.  Anyone can "pretend" to be a published person- I just have to look up a name.  If your qualifications were truly what you say they were, my question would have been a relatively simple matter.

Too bad, Smeg.  Try again next time.

"Steven"

"Steven" "Steven" Quote spelled[/b] it correctly]Endquote - try this spelt it correctly?.

Your stocks have hit rock bottom! What makes you think you have the right to level unsubstansiated allegations . A super member you may be (super purely by number of posts) get down off your high horse your not admin nor moderator you are a member with aspirations that are obvious.

OP I am sure that some of the answers to your post will benefit some members sometime somewhere.

Steven, even if he is a troll, so what. The thread was going along fine without any

'TEFL vs. CELTA mudslinging' until your nice little vigilante post. One method is not better than the other, just different courses. The OP is trying to get suggestions on good ones whether TEFL or CELTA. Don't be so paranoid of trolls; they are people too.

[mijan246]

I asked a simple question. I can provide the answer myself, if anyone's interested (without using an internet link). I'll try not to let your opinion of my "stocks" (this is usually used as an uncountable in this idiom, by the way) keep me from sleeping too much.

This kind of thread is a common type of Smeg ploy (to get people arguing about TEFL threads, his special monomania). I'd say it's MUCH MORE LIKELY that it's a Smeg ploy than that a person of the OP's alleged quals is for real in this case. If he is for real, my question should pose no challenge at all for him.

Oh, since he has a Bio qualification too, being a doctor and all- can you tell us why we can see easily through goggles underwater but not so well with the naked eye? Oh, why are telephoto lenses long?

Should pose no trouble, no trouble at all for a talented optical/medical researcher. I should be put to sham]

e with the speed of your replies.

"Steven"

Steven I do not mind admitting that I could not answer your question - but to state it is a simple question - in laymens terms "bullshit".

I have read and reread the OP and I still fail to see where "Tyfon" claims to be a doctor.

He certainly states he is a "Scientist" with a degree in (biology and physics) and masters (physiology).

Add to this:

1.An Oculist is a qualified medical doctor who specialises in the treatment of diseases of the eye. Now an Oculust is also known as an Ophthalmologist or sometimes an ophthalmic surgeon.

2.The title Ophthalmologist is becoming increasingly popular with Doctors, especially in North America, perhaps because Oculist has been adopted by people who are not qualified doctors.

3.An Optician specialises in lenses and glasses(Optician comes through french from medieval Latin Optica, 'optics', the scientific study of light and vision, which goes back to the Greek Optos, 'visible'.

4.A dispensing Optician makes and sells glasses according to the prescription of an Oculist or Ophthalmic optician.

5.An Ophthalmic optician, more highly trained, is qualified to test sight and prescribe glasses as well.

Now all of this means diddly swat, the OP simply laid out his qualifications and work experience, it would appear the only person who considered him to be prententious was yourself and then you had the gall to say (I knew when I posted that I hadn't spelled it correctly. That was part of your test- which you passed).

Steven before you drop back to your usual diatribe " that I have some sort of an axe to grind - or a chip on my shoulder - or convienent qualifications - come down off your high horse we are not "your students" this is a discussion forum.

If the OP is indeed a troll I am sure KK as the forum leader will soon sort it out.

Edited September 18, 2005 by mijan246

[sanook2me]

You become paranoid when reading peoples post and I always assume that most decent posts are started by moderators or people connected to the company running the website to get the hit rate up so they can raise their advertising fees. Thai visa has many advertisers so a big hit rate is necessary.

The OP could be genuine but if somebody has been around universites that long wouldn't they surely consult the language department at the uni they study/research in, don't you think?

-----------------------------------------------

Who the ###### is Smeg, I've been a casual user/reader on teflasia/ajarn.com and smeg was always mentioned on there. I always felt it was a moderator having some fun. Who the ###### is he/she?

-----------------------------------------------

back to the OP

Another tefl you should look at before making a decision is at www.telf1.com.

This course cannot and doesn't try to compete with the CELTA which is by far the most comprehensive and internationally renowned course. TEFL1 one is more theory and student centred offering a fair priced introduction into the art of pedigogy.

The tutors on this course all work at universities or international schools so finding a job through them would be easy especially with your background.

Which ever one you do keep us informed and good luck !

ps

A good troll or genuine? I think a good troll. who cares

[mijan246]

sanook2me yes the OP certainly appeared to be naieve considering his qualifications and experience but then again some "eggheads" are like that.

I am sure, KK has been around the traps for a fair amount of time and would have been monitoring the situation acting at the appropriate time. (Give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves.)

Message for KK - Tyfon may be too smart for his/her own good.

I received the following PM:

Thank you for your reply, some of the answers have indeed given me a better idea of what to look for. Sorry to have stirred things up. There are obviously some issues in this forum that I should have spent more time lurking and assesing before posting, but time is not my friend. Guess I'll lay off for a while.

Thanks again,

K.

KK - He may have outsmarted himself me thinks.('Lurking' - not so new as this is a sneaky reference to the "What is a newbie post")

Steven no apology, you still need to come down to earth and I am sure if you had bided your time, your "stocks" would not have plummented to such low levels!

egoist, egotist: - These nouns are often used inter-changeably, but there is a theoretical distinction. The egoist is self-seeking, selfish obsessed with his own interests. The egotist is self-centred and self-important, using the word I a great deal, and referring everything he hears to himself. ( The latin source of both words, 'ego', means 'I'.) An egoist might be nasty and ruthless, or sneaky perhaps; an egotist might be pompous and perhaps laughable. An egotist is boastful; an egoist might deliberately avoid boasting for fear that this would jeopadise his advancement.

Oh well back to something I do know about; -

[Ijustwannateach]

Mijan, I have no idea what you're on about, but you seem to be having fun in your fantasy world. Please continue to cheer my "demise" for our entertainment.

Incidentally, if I am reading your post correctly, you continue to misinterpret "lurking" as a special word used only in one thread of this forum. It is not- it is general Internet jargon. Once again, you're going to cause yourself a lot of trouble and others a lot of laughs if you don't adjust to normal forum slang.

MBKudu, if it's a certain troll that I know fairly well, then he is certainly not harmless- and this thread has some hallmarks of his style. In any case, I'm no friend of trolls and feel no sorrow at exposing them.

To answer my own first question above: To answer concisely, in the thin lens formula for glasses the image distance will be 2 cm less than with contact lenses, which means the focal length will be a bit lower to match. The image must be moved from the object (infinity) to the incorrectly placed far point of the person's vision; with contacts this far point is more or less exactly the image distance you want for the virtual image formed by the lens. With glasses, you have a 2 cm distance from the eye, so you want the virtual image to be focused at the far point minus 2 cm. Diopters are the inverse of the focal length.

"Steven"

[mijan246]

Tyfon - The Text & Talk course is good value for money, although if you are genuine you would be better off with the "CELTA" it's recognised world wide.

Steven but there is very little interest in your question and even less in your answer your

[mbkudu]

To answer my own first question above:  To answer concisely, in the thin lens formula for glasses the image distance will be 2 cm less than with contact lenses, which means the focal length will be a bit lower to match.  The image must be moved from the object (infinity) to the incorrectly placed far point of the person's vision; with contacts this far point is more or less exactly the image distance you want for the virtual image formed by the lens.  With glasses, you have a 2 cm distance from the eye, so you want the virtual image to be focused at the far point minus 2 cm.  Diopters are the inverse of the focal length.

"Steven"

Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah.

[Ijustwannateach]

a bip-bop-a dooby- and a dobelly day!