Helpin Elderly Foreigners In Need In Chiang Mai

[elektrified]

Just out of curiosity for those saying stay in Thailand who is going to take care of them. Why should the Thai government take care of them when they are native's of a country that in all likely hood has a system to do just that.

Why not?.....happens in the UK all the time

I am saying this tounge in cheek of course, but it's true

Exactly. We do the same in the USA.

[TacoBoy]

No surprise that thai authorities are increasingly concearned about a foreigner's means of support while staying in Thailand.

It is not impossible to live wisely on about 30,000 thb per month if they have medical insurance to cover them.

But the Thai requirement of about 66,000 a month for long stay visa seems to be a pretty fair assessment of how much a foreigner should have to cover living expences and emergencies.

Not to seem to critical, but trying to work here as an english teacher and live is pushing it on their limited salary.

Bottom line seems to be, if you can't afford to live here and take care of yourself, you should be in your home country.

Edited March 26, 2011 by TacoBoy

[upupandaway]

No surprise that thai authorities are increasingly concearned about a foreigner's means of support while staying in Thailand.

It is not impossible to live wisely on about 30,000 thb per month if they have medical insurance to cover them.

But the Thai requirement of about 66,000 a month for long stay visa seems to be a pretty fair assessment of how much a foreigner should have to cover living expences and emergencies.

Not to seem to critical, but trying to work here as an english teacher and live is pushing it on their limited salary.

Bottom line seems to be, if you can't afford to live here and take care of yourself, you should be in your home country.

Well said

The bottom line is many people come here to live because the economy at the time made it very comfortable for them. Some came just to enjoy the many attractions of Thailand.

Why would they expect Thailand to take care of them in there advancing years when all they did was come to take advantage? Thailand takes care of it's elderly in the families they do not have a welfare system as I strongly suspect the countries we all come from have. On another point how many had the means to live on more than a marginal capacity when they first got here. I know for myself my pensions have not kept up with inflation. In fact my US SS gave no raise in the last two years.

Granted it might not be what they want but it is there. If Thailand was to develop a system to take care of them I hardly think it would be under conditions they would choose to live in. Remember this is a country where many of them live on 5,000 Baht a month. I hardly think it would be a resort built to take care of them.

There is the chance I could be wrong but that is my honest feelings on the subject. And as for my future I have included plans that do not require the Thai government to take care of me.

[orang37]

... snip ... With no way to earn money at all, I would prefer to be in my home country. At least, no one is going to arrest me and put me in a dungeon for being a vagrant.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun UG,

Wonder about that "vagrant" thing, now: used to be long ago that Berkeley, California was full of mentally ill and homeless people because the climate was kind, there were some community organized social supports, like soup kitchens, and free medical clinic, it was known as a place where they could "get away with" living on the street, or wherever: then came the famous confrontation over a piece of land popularly known as "People's Park" which was owned by the U. of California who wanted to turn it into a parking lot, and riots. And then came a big political turn-around in Berkeley politics toward the right last time I looked. Wonder if Berkeley today tolerates the homeless and wandering mentally ill as it used to ?

But, if in the US, and over 65, and a citizen, you are technically eligible for Medicare: the practical realities of what a poor person, perhaps on food stamps, as so many Americans are on now, has to go through to get effective medical treatment, even when covered by Medicare, is an unknown to us, but we suspect it's as tricky a system as Thai work-permits and visas.

One thing for sure, you'll never get a penny for medical treatment outside the US, from the US government, even if eligible for Medicare in the US (whether honorably discharged vets of the armed forces of the US have some benefits outside the US: unknown to us). And if you are so disabled that you need to be "exported" back to the US, if a US citizen, will the US Embassy or Consulate here in CM actually do anything for you if you are broke ?

Would also pose the question of: why should Thailand help foreigners who fall apart here who are non-citizens, unless they are bound by mutual treaty obligations to do so based on the way their citizens are treated. Those of you who know of the special "Treaty of Amity" between Thailand and the US, also know that to exercise any of a US Citizens rights under that treaty is ... well, let's just say we've only known one American who started a company under the provisos of that treaty in eleven years, and he's busted and long gone.

Alas, cruel world.

But, don't mean to be negative here, and wish this group all the best, and certainly would volunteer to help them any way possible, if volunteering were not a crime without work permit.

best, ~o:37;

[Flatouthruthefog]

<br />

<br />

<br />To all who showed interest.The next meeting of Ageing Network is now Thursday 7th April at The Raintree Resource Centre At 5.30pm.<br />It has been moved as the 6th is a Thai holiday.<br />

<br /><br /><br />Maybe you could invite this group to answer some questions. <br /><br /><a href='http://www.chiangmaicpe.org/' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.chiangmaicpe.org/</a><br />

<br /><br />I checked out the website of this organization and, at first, it seemed to be an answer to many of the concerns posted on this thread.  In fact, its mission overlaps that of the Ageing Network in many areas.  However, the more I dug into the site, I realized that it was created just a few weeks ago.  Maybe the organization has been around for a while, but the site is new.  Has anyone had experience with this Chiang Mai CPE organization as a client?  Not as someone who pays for their training courses and receives (guess what!) a one-year ED visa!  This group is affiliated with CMU and given their history in leaving a couple hundred foreigners in their Language Institute stranded without visas, I'm doubtful about how genuine their mission "to care for the local expat community and help in times of crisis and need."<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I think it would be helpful to all to emphasise that the CMU system you mention here is totally seperate from the British Hon Consul's initiative described in this thread earlier by MAJORUS. (The next meeting of this latter lot is indeed on April 7th).

It doesn't even have a formalised name yet, let alone a website, but it is growing very rapidly and has already resulted in a practical approach (in his own language) to an older foreign expat on very hard times (not British).

This latter initiative is non-denominational, totally international and focusses on expat foreigners with imminent or current health and/or financial problems. In my view it is excellent, practical, long overdue, and should be given every encouragement.

It is already supported in principle by 2 full-time and several Honorary foreign consuls as well as Thai authorities. The Thais do indeed want to see that we foreigners CARE and will ACT about hardship cases in our own ranks, and not expect a Thai safety net.

There are many volunteers, some of whom have CM work permits (for other activities of course). But all have been here long enough and are confident enough not to constantly be looking over their shoulders, or sit around commiserating while doing nothing, simply due to lack of the little blue book.

There is a Middle Path. The Lord Buddha taught us about it and, while not a Buddhist, I strongly recommend it to those who may be sincerely interested in assisting this topic. There is no space for nervous, hand-wringing passengers.

[amykat]

Before I say what I am about to say, please understand that I am not asking for myself, in fact, I feel quite uncomfortable accepting help from anyone ...but this volunteer program/problem re work permits, seems easy to avoid.

Things don't need to be set up formally as some volunteer program. Is AA set up like that? NO. Can they meet together and help each other? YES.

We could very easily have some program, where people could visit shut-ins, reclusive people, if we wanted to do that. In other countries, there are groups and people who go visit old people in homes, to give them some social life, or they bring pets to give them access to that, etc.

I know, that when I randomly meet some farang, I feel sort of crazy, because the topic is always Thai life, something, and I just cannot control my need to chatter on and on, about things I don't like here ...really no matter how hard I try ...there is a lot of pent up frustration. If I actually had a regular social life, this wouldn't be a problem, I think, because I could get out little bits here and there, and not go off on a tangent.

I mean really, I have liked Orang37 for a long time, I would love to meet you! I think we might have a lot in common. However, how do you start that without looking like a freak?

Western cultures aren't really good for asking for help ....while on the other hand, Thai people are very good at expressing their needs for help, not ashamed at all to ask for anything really ...it is a shockingly different culture, which I am sure many people here have become aware of.

I am sure many of you are aware of how, as an example, Thai people in foreign countries, treat each other. They gang up, they share info they learn how to survive, etc. I seriously doubt they are ripping each other to pieces on an internet forum. And actually I think those of use who do that, are really expressing how pissed off they are at Thai people, Thai spouses, Thai whatever, because this is a very frustrating place to live, unless you happen to be a person who doesn't like the truth, doesn't like specific answers to questions, likes vague plans, and like people to be unable to pin you down.

I feel like I could be happy here, if I had at least a few good freinds. Not Thai freinds, they don't count as far as what I have experienced. Some of us, have no Thai "family" even if they are good or bad. How to do this? I have no idea, as for myself, I exposed some of my personal details on TV, that I have never once told to anyone in Thailand. And actually I felt quite ashamed to have done that. I was expecting flames from hell. Luckily for me, for once, I didn't get that.

Every single time I go to Rimping for example, I see many farangs, but it is just weird to start up a conversation and then also ask for their phone number. I don't know what is the answer.

Edited March 26, 2011 by amykat

[Ulysses G.]

Every single time I go to Rimping for example, I see many farangs, but it is just weird to start up a conversation and then also ask for their phone number. I don't know what is the answer.

IMHO, there are some great people here, but also a lot that should be avoided. You have to be careful about making friends too quickly or you just might regret it.

My suggestion would be to join a health club with lots of Westerners as they tend to become friendly when they see each other every day and the real barflies and druggies tend to avoid such places. Making friends naturally always works better than coming on too strong.

[ChiangMaiFun]

what would be considered 'livable' here? I know some people (farang) on 25,000 - Thais of course can survive on 5,000+

So do a few Farangs!

is that really true? some farangs live on 100 quid a month?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Before I say what I am about to say, please understand that I am not asking for myself, in fact, I feel quite uncomfortable accepting help from anyone ...but this volunteer program/problem re work permits, seems easy to avoid.

Things don't need to be set up formally as some volunteer program. Is AA set up like that? NO. Can they meet together and help each other? YES.

We could very easily have some program, where people could visit shut-ins, reclusive people, if we wanted to do that. In other countries, there are groups and people who go visit old people in homes, to give them some social life, or they bring pets to give them access to that, etc.

I know, that when I randomly meet some farang, I feel sort of crazy, because the topic is always Thai life, something, and I just cannot control my need to chatter on and on, about things I don't like here ...really no matter how hard I try ...there is a lot of pent up frustration. If I actually had a regular social life, this wouldn't be a problem, I think, because I could get out little bits here and there, and not go off on a tangent.

I mean really, I have liked Orang37 for a long time, I would love to meet you! I think we might have a lot in common. However, how do you start that without looking like a freak?

Western cultures aren't really good for asking for help ....while on the other hand, Thai people are very good at expressing their needs for help, not ashamed at all to ask for anything really ...it is a shockingly different culture, which I am sure many people here have become aware of.

I am sure many of you are aware of how, as an example, Thai people in foreign countries, treat each other. They gang up, they share info they learn how to survive, etc. I seriously doubt they are ripping each other to pieces on an internet forum. And actually I think those of use who do that, are really expressing how pissed off they are at Thai people, Thai spouses, Thai whatever, because this is a very frustrating place to live, unless you happen to be a person who doesn't like the truth, doesn't like specific answers to questions, likes vague plans, and like people to be unable to pin you down.

I feel like I could be happy here, if I had at least a few good freinds. Not Thai freinds, they don't count as far as what I have experienced. Some of us, have no Thai "family" even if they are good or bad. How to do this? I have no idea, as for myself, I exposed some of my personal details on TV, that I have never once told to anyone in Thailand. And actually I felt quite ashamed to have done that. I was expecting flames from hell. Luckily for me, for once, I didn't get that.

Every single time I go to Rimping for example, I see many farangs, but it is just weird to start up a conversation and then also ask for their phone number. I don't know what is the answer.

you have echoed many feelings here that many share - it's not my cup of tea but there is the ex-pats club

[upupandaway]

Before I say what I am about to say, please understand that I am not asking for myself, in fact, I feel quite uncomfortable accepting help from anyone ...but this volunteer program/problem re work permits, seems easy to avoid.

Things don't need to be set up formally as some volunteer program. Is AA set up like that? NO. Can they meet together and help each other? YES.

We could very easily have some program, where people could visit shut-ins, reclusive people, if we wanted to do that. In other countries, there are groups and people who go visit old people in homes, to give them some social life, or they bring pets to give them access to that, etc.

I know, that when I randomly meet some farang, I feel sort of crazy, because the topic is always Thai life, something, and I just cannot control my need to chatter on and on, about things I don't like here ...really no matter how hard I try ...there is a lot of pent up frustration. If I actually had a regular social life, this wouldn't be a problem, I think, because I could get out little bits here and there, and not go off on a tangent.

I mean really, I have liked Orang37 for a long time, I would love to meet you! I think we might have a lot in common. However, how do you start that without looking like a freak?

Western cultures aren't really good for asking for help ....while on the other hand, Thai people are very good at expressing their needs for help, not ashamed at all to ask for anything really ...it is a shockingly different culture, which I am sure many people here have become aware of.

I am sure many of you are aware of how, as an example, Thai people in foreign countries, treat each other. They gang up, they share info they learn how to survive, etc. I seriously doubt they are ripping each other to pieces on an internet forum. And actually I think those of use who do that, are really expressing how pissed off they are at Thai people, Thai spouses, Thai whatever, because this is a very frustrating place to live, unless you happen to be a person who doesn't like the truth, doesn't like specific answers to questions, likes vague plans, and like people to be unable to pin you down.

I feel like I could be happy here, if I had at least a few good freinds. Not Thai freinds, they don't count as far as what I have experienced. Some of us, have no Thai "family" even if they are good or bad. How to do this? I have no idea, as for myself, I exposed some of my personal details on TV, that I have never once told to anyone in Thailand. And actually I felt quite ashamed to have done that. I was expecting flames from hell. Luckily for me, for once, I didn't get that.

Every single time I go to Rimping for example, I see many farangs, but it is just weird to start up a conversation and then also ask for their phone number. I don't know what is the answer.

the Chiang Mai expat club meets the fourth Saturday of the month. 10:00 at the Shangerala hotel. (sorry about the spelling) They have many clubs with special interest groups. Dining out, Photography, computer etc. The bottom line is you have to take some responsibility for your own happiness. The opportunities are out there. But they wont come to you.

[orang37]

... snip ... There are many volunteers, some of whom have CM work permits (for other activities of course). But all have been here long enough and are confident enough not to constantly be looking over their shoulders, or sit around commiserating while doing nothing, simply due to lack of the little blue book.

There is a Middle Path. The Lord Buddha taught us about it and, while not a Buddhist, I strongly recommend it to those who may be sincerely interested in assisting this topic. There is no space for nervous, hand-wringing passengers.

Interesting, appears to be using a humanitarian cause as a rationale for venting personal spleen: believe that may be accurately termed "self-righteousness." If you are going to cite the Buddhist "Middle Path" during your spew, you might at least do some research on what the "majjhimā paṭipadā" is: it is not: "if you are not my friend: you are my enemy;" it is not: "if you do not enthusiastically embrace everything I advocate without critical analysis and evaluation: you are ... fill in your choice of negative stereotypes here ..."

And, perhaps, while you are at it look up "karuna metta." And, you might want to round that out with looking up Gautama the Buddha's famous reply at Kalamas where he discusses how one recognizes a "true teacher."

~o:37;

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun AmyKat,

Found a lot of value in your very sincere post, and was touched you expressed you'd like to meet us, thanks ! We've made some very valued friends over the last few years right here on this forum, who we do see in "real life," as well as some very valued ... uhhhh ... "worthy opponents"

ioho the topic "how do you find a meaningful social life in Chiang Mai" probably deserves another thread, separate from this one, whose focus is on a new group to assist the elderly farang. But, for many farangs here, we believe, the "meaningful" part comes from family, church and religion, or their existing social networks, or their deep involvement in some aspect of Thai culture (Buddhism, arts, etc.).

Think you're absolutely right that nothing stops us (farangs) here from informal associations for whatever purpose. Except, obviously, when some predatory entity targets a bunch of farangs playing music for free in a commercial venue, which is just a good excuse to rake in some loot.

The rub comes when providing some service (collectively): that really does require a high-level of organization, co-ordination, planning, financing. And, that's why we're delighted to see this aid-to-elderly farangs program getting some early top-down support from the official government representatives.

Last year, following the heroic, and so praise-worthy, efforts of Duke's, and the local US VFW, the US 4th. of July celebration event came in for a lot of criticism; we proposed that this year's 4th. of July celebration be organized as a fund-raiser to provide a scholarship for some worthy Thai student to the US, with a broad range of community support. The problem becomes, of course, who will organize that, co-ordinate it, put up money for venue facilities. You almost have to have an existing group with a structure in place, and those existing groups may not be particularly adept at reaching out to enlist broader participation from those not in their groups.

Comments on this thread by Khuns UpUpAndAway UG, ChiangMaiFun, all have some good recommendations for putting yourself in places where you can "hang out" with people, and allow "natural" social attraction to bring you together with people you "vibe" with.

And, ioho, Khun UG's caution about who you might meet here is most wise (we've learned the hard way that some people here, who might be most gregarious, most eager to meet you, have some ... uhhh ... well, let's leave that unspecified).

best, ~o:37;

Edited March 27, 2011 by orang37

[Spaniel]

I have read thru all the replies and surprised that no one has mentioned the possibility of setting up some type of organization to help the (farang) elderly via the Christian churches in the Chiang Mai area. Is this worth looking into too?

[amykat]

Sorry if anyone feels I am derailing the thread, I realize I am not elderly, but I physically might as well be 85 due to some of my limitations. And I know I need to take action, am not waiting for people to find me. But the problem is that, for example, a gym, I cannot do much physical activity and won't often go. However when I did join pool clubs and did try some gyms when I was feeling better, I never did meet any people. Well, I did meet some people, but they were usually tourists, or were here for 6 months and then gone.

The other complication is that I have a child, and most of the expat gatherings are at night, or weekends. I have had serious problems with babysitters, and no longer feel comfortable using them unless it is a total emergency. That is a complicated subject so I won't detail it here.

And another point from UG and Orang ..I am on to the farang men who do take an interest. They may have met me several times, but it isn't until someone tells them that I have a nice home, I have a decent car, I seem to have money, then suddenly they try to become my best friend, usually telling me (and often showing me photos) of their 20 year old girl, and then complaining about how they can't communicate and would love to have a female they can communicate with. To me that translates into, they don't have much cash, and think I might be desperate and willing to have some affair with them, and they will also try to suck money from me, so they can keep their Thai women or improve their own lifestyle. Luckily, I never fell into that trap.

Frankly, at this point, I feel I just need to leave. I plan to move to Penang next year, live in one of those high-rise condos, where the pool, rec rooms, gardens to walk in, and playground for the kid are right there, and also I have found a nice building right next door to a great British International school, so I can manage life when I can't drive, more people speak English, and well there are many good points. I won't need much help in that lifestyle, not having a garden, pets and things I have now. Oh, and you can also walk to the beach.

Regarding getting into church or things such as that ...well I am an devout atheist. I think CM is great in many ways. I was very positive when I first moved here, and did a fair amount to things, but I was in a better period health wise. I don't know what the solution is ...but I think there may be other people like me, even if they are mostly older and may or may not be broke. If they are isolated and/or reclusive, I don't know how helpful people would even find them. Personally, I would love to go visit some old person who is lonely, it would help them and help me.

Anyway, I hope nobody here thinks I am feeling sorry for myself. I am quite grateful to be fairly well off financially, as life could be a total nightmare otherwise. I am grateful that CM gave me a place to live for a period, where I was able to live well, and save a lot more money for my future. At the start, I enjoyed many wonderful things here but after a while, doing the tourist circuit of things, gets boring. Thai massage really saved my life in some ways, when I was totally unable to move my neck and my back had the flexibility of a wooden board. I haven't always gotten the best medical care here, but am grateful that it doesn't cost me $6000 to have some blood tests and $1000 a month for drugs. I'm grateful that we have so much good food available, some cheap, some not, but at least we have it, and a wide variety of restaurants.

I adopted a half Thai/half UK kid who was abandoned by the UK father, and whose mother is total drug addict, and although going through that process, almost killed me, or made me want to kill some other people, it finally worked out and she is a beautiful, intelligent girl and I hope to give her the best education possible, get her a US passport, and give her many opportunities in life, that she would not have had, she only would have ended up as a hooker, I am sure. (Based on her birth family.)

Anyway, I have made plans to solve my own problems, but everyone might not have the freedoms I have to be able to improve their situations. I do think, however, that SOME people, could be a bit nicer on TV. You don't know that this may be the only outlet posters have to socialize, to express their feelings, to find some help. But if you have been on here for a while, you tend not to want to expose yourself, because of all the negative feedback some posters give. And although I am sure many female posters have grown used to some of the abuse they get here, I think you MEN, should really give us the benefit of the doubt, be a bit kind, realize we have a harder time here for a variety of reasons.

Okay, thanks for listening. Oh, and I have 2 wonderful parrots, complete with nice cages, play stands, toys imported from the US, and would like to find a nice home for them as I think I won't be able to move them outside Thailand ...so any bird lovers out there, please contact me if you are interested.

Edited March 27, 2011 by amykat

[NancyL]

Amykat, have you looked at moving to one of the better condos in CM, like Rim Ping and Flora? They would seem to offer everything you like about Penang, except maybe for the beach.

It's difficult to sustain friendships when living isolated, out of town. I think that's the problem of some of the elderly foreigners in need. For whatever reason, they live out of the center of town and just don't have an opportunity to go out during the day, to walk to the markets, health club, book stores, AUA library, malls, restaurants or any of the number of places where westerners have a chance for casual, daily interaction.

Many of the Outside Group Activity clubs of the Expats Club meet during the day, like computer club, the bridge club, textile club, reading club, ladies lunch group, board & card games, etc. You can make friends thru these groups and then set up lunch dates or shopping expeditions with people you meet. It's difficult to do this when it's a special effort to "come into town" for an activity.

Oh and don't give up on the health clubs and people who are here just six months of the year. Many of them return every year and can become friends. I wouldn't consider them tourists. Plus, there's many positive mental and physical benefits to regular exercise even if you don't meet friends thru the activity.

[surayu]

The biggest deterrent for good samaritans in this country is the law, if you are not ready to give a (huge)share of whatever you are willing to deprive yourself for the love of helping others, to the goverment and his affiliated, they simply arrest you and have the power to black list you as well, so you will never be able to come back.

The law governing this sector it's really self explanatory and shouldn't take much effort from anyone to understand why it has been written on that way.

Some people are clearly so greed with not even the slightest hint of humanity, if they can't get hold on some cash (even if they might be already filthy rich), they would rather see any sort of dishumanity happen, that's disgusting!

Foreigner consulates/embassies addressing this matter might be the key to solve the pathetic situation as i doubt whom is in charge would show any interest about the matter otherways.

[cheshiregent]

theres an old american man that lives close to me he has gone senile he has no money he lives in a run down shake of a guest house

he has no control over hes bladder a friend of mine saw him in the 7/11 at 2 in the morning sitting on the floor in just a towel

i talked to the manager of my building that also owns the guest house maybe it would be a good idea to call the american consulate

at least they might be able to contact his family if any but i just got sad look from the lady as i am sure she wants no more part in it than i do

maybe some one on thai visa knows him hes often seen walking in the city pushing his bike he has a very strange hat and bright

green vest and mutters to him self a lot

im sure most people that read this might think its a wind up but i assure you it is not

id rather not get involved if there is any one that does know this man then please contact me

its a shame for him he needs help but it seems as he fallen on hard times maybe spent all his cash

and really needs to be sent home because im sure he has no rites as old penniless farang as they dont take care of there own

so hes got no chance

[sbk]

Off topic bickering deleted, do not hijack this thread with whatever your personal issues happen to be, I don't think anyone is even remotely interested. cheers

[NancyL]

chesiregent, it's good of you to be concerned for this gentleman. Why don't you contact the American Consulate yourself since you know where he lives? They're pretty responsive to emails sent via their website. It may take a couple of days, but you should get a response.

[cheshiregent]

i might do that i just wanted to see if i could find someone that might of known more about him first

as i dont really want to be the course of the guy being kicked out as he surely will if he has no money and im sure by the look and smell

of him and where he lives he cant have id not be surprised if any visa he has is way out of date and i could be sending him home to an even worse situation than hes in

already he looks like an old tramp and smells worse im not sure what any one can do for him if the us consulate could even help him if he has no funds

no way to take care of him self no way to pay for an air line ticket what would they do

could i just be making things worse for him ?

[NancyL]

No chesiregent, I don't think you'll be making things worse.

It's my understanding that the consular staff has received training in the "special needs" of their local American population and they realize the "special need" in CM is dealing with elderly, at-risk people. It will be interesting to learn if anyone from the American Consulate will be involved in the April 7th meeting at Raintree.

[cheshiregent]

so again anyone that thinks they know him or can assist in a positive way

please contact me maybe someone that has experience is this kind of thing as i dont want to involve the police we all know where that might lead

i think the best thing would be is someone from the consulate could just talk to him see if in fact he is incapable of taking care of him self

as im pretty sure he is not

[Mapguy]

I am the OP.

As the OP I simply asked what people think about the increasing need of elderly in bad way in Chiang Mai (and further into Thailand). I hesitate to chime in, but I don't think that it is useful to make personal posts/pleas about difficulties adjusting to living in Thailand. If such posts or pleas are made (and they might indeed alert people to genuine need), I am sympathetic to them and to good-hearted efforts by other TV readers to assist, but I think such concern and willingness to help should be by personal message. I really don't understand a public approach through posts on the thread to such personal circumstances and problems.

Now, I would like to raise the ante with another general question: We know there are people needing help and we know there are differing opinions about their situation and how to deal with them. More contributions about that are always welcome. But --- moving on --- what practical measures can be taken and who should be involved? And who pays for it?

[NancyL]

Mapguy, are you doing market research? For whom? Why?

Edited March 27, 2011 by NancyL

[amykat]

Mapguy, if you don't want to know about personal problems by people who live here, and would like them/us to deal with it by PM, how would that be possible? Can people randomly just PM another random person, and then ask for help?

Are you just concerned with the aggregate problem, but don't want to know or be involved with individuals? I think you won't find any way to help if this is your idea. Each of us, can do things to help others, even if it is just one person. To that one person, you may save their life or reduce their suffering in significant ways.

There was recently a story/news report about some cazy man, locked up in jail who was near death, He also wasn't broke, but was too impaired to function. As far as I know, just ONE person decided to help him, and it made all the difference and probably saved his life.

I used to visit (although visiting was very limited) some farangs in jail, and help supply them with cash and supplies they needed. I was selective about those I chose to help, which is my right.

Many of us, can do things to help others, here and there, without being part of some large organization.

Edited March 27, 2011 by amykat

[sbk]

I was referencing people bringing their personal arguments into this thread. Don't start up arguments in a thread and then hijack that thread so that it no longer becomes relevant to the topic and instead becomes some kind of personal playground for bickering. I do hope that is now perfectly clear and the petty arguing will stop.

[orang37]

I am the OP.

As the OP I simply asked what people think about the increasing need of elderly in bad way in Chiang Mai (and further into Thailand). I hesitate to chime in, but I don't think that it is useful to make personal posts/pleas about difficulties adjusting to living in Thailand. If such posts or pleas are made (and they might indeed alert people to genuine need), I am sympathetic to them and to good-hearted efforts by other TV readers to assist, but I think such concern and willingness to help should be by personal message. I really don't understand a public approach through posts on the thread to such personal circumstances and problems.

Now, I would like to raise the ante with another general question: We know there are people needing help and we know there are differing opinions about their situation and how to deal with them. More contributions about that are always welcome. But --- moving on --- what practical measures can be taken and who should be involved? And who pays for it?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun MapGuy,

In this case you "opened a door," and its led to valuable information being provided about this new attempt, with high-level consular support, to address the problems of isolated, vulnerable, broke, sick, demented, etc., farangs in Chiang Mai. An approach we are happy to see because we believe only such top-down supported effort can be broadly useful to those farangs who "fall outside" the "safety nets" perhaps provided by some farangs' home countries now, or by some local churches to their members (fresh in our memory, even though it was years ago, was the generous .. and time-consuming ... support offered to a dying disabled man from Holland, who was a friend of ours, by members of a Chiang Mai Christian Church, of which he was a member).

While we're happy to see an apparently "escalating" series of personal exchanges that did, ioho, "de-rail," the thread removed, we do think that concrete individual examples of people suffering now are very valuable here, and might lead some people to rally to take action. ioho, the examples "concretize" the issue you raised, bring it "home," emotionally. Surely you did not expect this thread to remain an "abstract" philosophical debate ?

And, the "real" stories of what has been done in the past that was helpful, practically, may well lead to discussion exactly exploring what you say you now wish discuss: what can be done, and who will pay for it.

As an American citizen, over 65, this body knows that, while technically eligible for Medicare in the US that would cover major medical disaster expenses (theoretically): living outside the US, there is no MedicAid available, and at this age, major medical insurance in-country here is not only tremendously expensive, but subject to the vagaries of TIT, in other words, unreliable. It's also unreliable for many Americans living in-country, which is another story (and a national disgrace). Those are the facts "on the ground," for this citizen. To expect any other group to help this old farang, should I become disabled here: wouldn't expect it.

We have heard stories, second-hand, of a young Swedish woman who was here in Chiang Mai, in dire medical distress, and had the Swedish government actually pay for her parents to come here, and for her repatriation for medical care (since we can't confirm that, we have to acknowledge that's "hearsay"). But, it does suggest a hypothesis that some nations may, indeed, provide substantial assistance to their citizens abroad.

You starting this thread is, ioho, a practical example of what can be done ! So, Sir, let the thread "breathe"

best, ~o:37;

[elektrified]

I am the OP.

As the OP I simply asked what people think about the increasing need of elderly in bad way in Chiang Mai (and further into Thailand). I hesitate to chime in, but I don't think that it is useful to make personal posts/pleas about difficulties adjusting to living in Thailand. If such posts or pleas are made (and they might indeed alert people to genuine need), I am sympathetic to them and to good-hearted efforts by other TV readers to assist, but I think such concern and willingness to help should be by personal message. I really don't understand a public approach through posts on the thread to such personal circumstances and problems.

Now, I would like to raise the ante with another general question: We know there are people needing help and we know there are differing opinions about their situation and how to deal with them. More contributions about that are always welcome. But --- moving on --- what practical measures can be taken and who should be involved? And who pays for it?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun MapGuy,

In this case you "opened a door," and its led to valuable information being provided about this new attempt, with high-level consular support, to address the problems of isolated, vulnerable, broke, sick, demented, etc., farangs in Chiang Mai. An approach we are happy to see because we believe only such top-down supported effort can be broadly useful to those farangs who "fall outside" the "safety nets" perhaps provided by some farangs' home countries now, or by some local churches to their members (fresh in our memory, even though it was years ago, was the generous .. and time-consuming ... support offered to a dying disabled man from Holland, who was a friend of ours, by members of a Chiang Mai Christian Church, of which he was a member).

While we're happy to see an apparently "escalating" series of personal exchanges that did, ioho, "de-rail," the thread removed, we do think that concrete individual examples of people suffering now are very valuable here, and might lead some people to rally to take action. ioho, the examples "concretize" the issue you raised, bring it "home," emotionally. Surely you did not expect this thread to remain an "abstract" philosophical debate ?

And, the "real" stories of what has been done in the past that was helpful, practically, may well lead to discussion exactly exploring what you say you now wish discuss: what can be done, and who will pay for it.

As an American citizen, over 65, this body knows that, while technically eligible for Medicare in the US that would cover major medical disaster expenses (theoretically): living outside the US, there is no MedicAid available, and at this age, major medical insurance in-country here is not only tremendously expensive, but subject to the vagaries of TIT, in other words, unreliable. It's also unreliable for many Americans living in-country, which is another story (and a national disgrace). Those are the facts "on the ground," for this citizen. To expect any other group to help this old farang, should I become disabled here: wouldn't expect it.

We have heard stories, second-hand, of a young Swedish woman who was here in Chiang Mai, in dire medical distress, and had the Swedish government actually pay for her parents to come here, and for her repatriation for medical care (since we can't confirm that, we have to acknowledge that's "hearsay"). But, it does suggest a hypothesis that some nations may, indeed, provide substantial assistance to their citizens abroad.

You starting this thread is, ioho, a practical example of what can be done ! So, Sir, let the thread "breathe"

best, ~o:37;

Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Swedes pay something like 59% in personal income taxes for such 'social services'?

[Mapguy]

Mapguy, are you doing market research? For whom? Why?

"Market research?" To learn more about how people feel about the situation, then hopefully move on to helping with an effective approach to deal with it.

"For Whom?" For the foreign community in Chiang Mai and in consideration of the impact on the community as a whole.

"Why?" It seems that there is an increasing number of vulnerable elderly. I think that's a big problem both to people as individuals and to the community at large.

What's next? I am glad there is a group formed to try to figure out effective ways to help people. So, what have TV Chiang Mai posters suggest: What to do? Who does it? How should it be done. Who pays for it?

[sbk]

Trollish and inflammatory posts removed. Mind your manners or don't post.