Helpin Elderly Foreigners In Need In Chiang Mai

[Mapguy]

Chiang Mai is a very attractive place to settle for people from other countries, often for those with limited budget or otherwise --- by simple choice or by estrangement for one reason or other, from family, friends, or other means of support at "home." Home would be other countries in North America, Europe, or Asia.

This situation does not apply, of course, to all who chose to come to Chiang Mai to live. Many have adequate resources and other support to live adequately. But it appears that there is an increasing problem with aging foreigners who come here without the resources they need to live, perhaps to get needed care. Care is needed at different levels. Some people just can't get around well, others need medical attention, some need 24/7 care. Some need someone to look after their affairs when they die but haven't prepared for that certainty.

Your thoughts?

[LJW]

My thoughts are in agreement.

Imagine a single man living here alone with no family or any loved ones. He is physically unable to work. He has millions of baht, but when that runs out?

No way to pay for living? Nobody to care for him? What are his options in a few years when he is broke?

[mrclough]

Maybe it's more about thinking along the lines of

If the single guy (or attached) is smart enough to earn his millions and work hard to get into that position then why is he not smart enough to think about the future and his health?

Maybe spending a little on medical insurance could help ease the stress of this problem?

I think educating people is more the way forward to combat this problem. Not like teaching in school or anything, most of the adults here are too intelegent and too mature to respond to that sort of thing but maybe advising on issues where people have these problems i.e. Healthcare, Managing Finances (budgeting) etc.

I'm only in my mid thirties and I'm already considering these things, the later you leave it the harder it will be in my opinion

[Mario2008]

There is also the problem of mental health. Deteriorating mental health, like for example alzheimers, also means one loses the ability to speak a foreign language. For non native English speakers that will be a problem, as they can't communicate in English any more and will be totaly depended on people who can take care of them and talk with them in their own language.

I'm afraid the number of Thais speaking decent French for example is very limited and some people will be better off in their home country.

[Thaifan2]

There is also the problem of mental health. Deteriorating mental health, like for example alzheimers, also means one loses the ability to speak a foreign language. For non native English speakers that will be a problem, as they can't communicate in English any more and will be totaly depended on people who can take care of them and talk with them in their own language.

I'm afraid the number of Thais speaking decent French for example is very limited and some people will be better off in their home country.

French nationals have a very good health service at home .Any in bad difficulty here would be better off heading home in most cases .(if they can find their way to the Airport )

[Beetlejuice]

Over the last few years in Chiang Mai I am seeing some pretty crappy looking farangs around and about. They have the appearance of someone who has simply packed up a bag, got on a plane and landed here. Mostly elderly but some are also quite young, in they're 20s and 30s. Even my Thai girlfriend has begun noticing them.

They seem with no doubts to be farangs living on shoestring budgets and it shows. I often wonder how they manage to support themselves in Thailand and what they are doing here?

Once they discover how easy it is to stay in Thailand, then they pass the word round to their mates resulting in more arrivals of these International vagrants.

These people, especially the elderly will eventually run into difficulties perhaps becoming a burden to their Thai families if they have any or to the authorities if they become seriously ill with long term health problems and not the financial means to acquire proper health care and special need facilities. It is not that easy for them to return back to the homeland where they have nothing or the means to travel back and support themselves.

This of course will only bring more attention to the farangs staying in Thailand by the Immigration department resulting in more restrictions put on us, similar to what has recently happened in Cambodia.

These people should stay in their own countries, better for them, better for us, better for all concerned.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[elektrified]

I saw several of these souls while at Immigration today. Some where handicapped and without friends, family or caregivers to help them. Some did have caregivers however. While others seemed to be very confused and judging by their disheveled appearance and odd behavior, were in the early stages of Alzheimer's. I was thinking the same thing as as the OP early today.

Remember, it is difficult or close to impossible to get health insurance over age 65 here. That is a big problem. I sometimes worry about a close friend in Bangkok who even though is only about 63, has too many pre-existing conditions to be insured. He has already been hospitalized a couple times and had to pay by credit card. He has no assets and if he were to need surgery or something, his only chance would be an airlift to Korea or Japan for treatment at a U.S. military facility, since he did 4 years in the service he is eligible. I'm sure there are many like him living here.

Edited March 21, 2011 by elektrified

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If someone can't manage the common sense to drink himself to death and/or get killed on the roads well before Alzheimer's sets in then I have little sympathy.

EDIT: That came out a little more negatively than I intended it. So please focus on the underlying wisdom: if you live in Thailand and you manage to be so ultra careful and sensible that you live until 80 then you're doing it wrong.

Edited March 21, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Beetlejuice]

Sorry if my last post seems a bit harsh.

But it`s an unfair world, not everyone enjoys the same freedoms and options due to circumstances and situations.

People must realise they're limitations and be realistic.

They cannot irresponsibly put themselves in jeopardy and expect others to be sympathetic and bail them out, being that the odds are they won't when the

chips are down. Welcome to the real world.

Be sensible, take care and never leave yourself

vulnerable. Especially here in easy to live, easy to die, Thailand

Edited March 21, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[MAJORUS]

Thanks for the concern,There is already an operation underway in Chiangmai to address this problem,most Consuls and other groups are already on board.

It is still in its very early days,if you are interested in helping contact the British Consul.Ben Thompson who is co-ordinating the effort our next meeting will be at the Raintree Resource Centre on 6th April.This is becoming a serious problem in Chiangmai and requires urgent attention,not stupid comments .

[MAJORUS]

There is already an organization formed to deal with this problem,it is being co-ordinated by the British Hon Consul Ben Svasti Thompson.

Most Consuls are already on board along with other interested parties.Our next meeting will be at the Raintree Resource Centre on 6th April.

It is now becoming a serious problem in Chiangmai and requires serious responses not stupid comments,if you have a serious will to help please feel free to join us.

Sorry thought my initial post did not get through.

[Asmerom]

They seem with no doubts to be farangs living on shoestring budgets and it shows. I often wonder how they manage to support themselves in Thailand and what they are doing here?

Once they discover how easy it is to stay in Thailand, then they pass the word round to their mates resulting in more arrivals of these International vagrants.

......."similar to what has recently happened in Cambodia."

Surely they must have at least £16,000/$26,000 in the bank every year. That's enough to live comfortably in Thailand. I have seen a few farangs myself who would seem to fit your unsympathetic description but I don't see how they get around the immigration requirements.

Could you briefly expand on what recently happened in Cambodia?

[mrclough]

There is already an organization formed to deal with this problem,it is being co-ordinated by the British Hon Consul Ben Svasti Thompson.

Most Consuls are already on board along with other interested parties.Our next meeting will be at the Raintree Resource Centre on 6th April.

It is now becoming a serious problem in Chiangmai and requires serious responses not stupid comments,if you have a serious will to help please feel free to join us.

Sorry thought my initial post did not get through.

Interesting that you consider some or all of the replies stupid. The OP asked for peoples thoughts on the matter, if you don't like what you read then maybe you ought not to read any further.

Also having don't drink and drive, you may have an accident and spill it at the bottom of each post kind of puts you out of position to make this comment to anyone

[Asmerom]

There is already an organization formed to deal with this problem

And what would be the name of this organisation and where is it based.

[jaideeguy]

Mckean hospital has a new assisted living as well as an alzheimer's/demtntia facility.....it's reasonably priced, but still costs $$.........one alternative.

[philw]

There is already an organization formed to deal with this problem,it is being co-ordinated by the British Hon Consul Ben Svasti Thompson.

Most Consuls are already on board along with other interested parties.Our next meeting will be at the Raintree Resource Centre on 6th April.

It is now becoming a serious problem in Chiangmai and requires serious responses not stupid comments,if you have a serious will to help please feel free to join us.

Sorry thought my initial post did not get through.

Interesting that you consider some or all of the replies stupid. The OP asked for peoples thoughts on the matter, if you don't like what you read then maybe you ought not to read any further.

Also having don't drink and drive, you may have an accident and spill it at the bottom of each post kind of puts you out of position to make this comment to anyone

Sorry but most of the replies are either stupid, insensitive or ill thought out.

Majorus has made a perfectly reasonable response and the subject matter is without doubt a growing problem in Chiangmai.

Having posted this I'm driving off for a drink...............

[NancyL]

Yes, you do need to have 800,000 baht in the bank to remain here on a retirement visa, but that money isn't really available if you plan to remain longer than one year, since you'll need to show 800,000 baht again when you go in for a visa extension. The other option, of course, is to demonstrate a monthly income in excess of 66,667 baht/month. That should be more than enough for a single person to live rather comfortably here.

So why do we see so many destitute-looking western retirees? Either they have all their funds tied up in maintaining that 800,000 baht bank account and are living on a modest monthly income or they really do receive more than 66,667 baht per month and just aren't spending it wisely and/or have other people taking advantage of that income.

In any case, it's wonderful that the British Honorary Consul is organizing a new group to address the needs of the "fragile" western retirees. It's too bad we retired people can't volunteer to assist that group since volunteer work is specifically prohibited for those of us here on a retirement visa.

[anonymouse]

Over the last few years in Chiang Mai I am seeing some pretty crappy looking farangs around and about. They have the appearance of someone who has simply packed up a bag, got on a plane and landed here. Mostly elderly but some are also quite young, in they're 20s and 30s. Even my Thai girlfriend has begun noticing them.

They seem with no doubts to be farangs living on shoestring budgets and it shows. I often wonder how they manage to support themselves in Thailand and what they are doing here?

Once they discover how easy it is to stay in Thailand, then they pass the word round to their mates resulting in more arrivals of these International vagrants.

These people, especially the elderly will eventually run into difficulties perhaps becoming a burden to their Thai families if they have any or to the authorities if they become seriously ill with long term health problems and not the financial means to acquire proper health care and special need facilities. It is not that easy for them to return back to the homeland where they have nothing or the means to travel back and support themselves.

This of course will only bring more attention to the farangs staying in Thailand by the Immigration department resulting in more restrictions put on us, similar to what has recently happened in Cambodia.

These people should stay in their own countries, better for them, better for us, better for all concerned.

Hi Beetlejuice I agree with most of your conclusions but I reckon it was a lot worse 10/15 years ago for dodgy old farangs coming to Thailand especially from the UK. Back in the day when the Baht was 70+ to the pound you could hop over to Mai Sai every month to get your passport stamped, if you didn't want to bother with that there were many travel agents who would get your passport stamped for a small sum of money. The social security in the UK was far less stringent at that time as well and it was easy to be on Disabililty benefit and not have to be in the UK to claim it.

It was also much easier to get English teaching work in those days.

Edited March 22, 2011 by anonymouse

[Asmerom]

In any case, it's wonderful that the British Honorary Consul is organizing a new group to address the needs of the "fragile" western retirees. It's too bad we retired people can't volunteer to assist that group since volunteer work is specifically prohibited for those of us here on a retirement visa.

"if you have a serious will to help please feel free to join us"

Presumably speaking on behalf of the British Consul , Majorus entreats us to help which strangely, contradicts your statement.

.

[SadieMBeagle]

Just a small thing to add...you haven't really clarified what you mean by busted-up farangs, but as we all know, just because somebody looks scruffy doesn't mean they have no money.

[elektrified]

I would suspect that some of these people (Americans I am referring to) are living off their Social Security checks quite literally from hand to mouth. With direct deposit it is so easy for people to live abroad now. I don't know how much Americans get for Social Security but when my Mother was alive I think she used to get around US $500-600.00 per month. I don't know if it has gone up in the last 20 years or not. But with currency fluctuations, bank fees, habits like alcohol, etc. that won't go very far.

[yesterday]

There is also the problem of mental health. Deteriorating mental health, like for example alzheimers, also means one loses the ability to speak a foreign language. For non native English speakers that will be a problem, as they can't communicate in English any more and will be totaly depended on people who can take care of them and talk with them in their own language.

I'm afraid the number of Thais speaking decent French for example is very limited and some people will be better off in their home country.

This is not last stop for the internationally pennyless ,aged, failing farangs! .This is Thailand which is for Thai people, we are visitors and when there is no funds and you are unable to take care of yourself.... it is time to go home to your own country since your vacation is over.

Edited March 22, 2011 by yesterday

[philw]

There is also the problem of mental health. Deteriorating mental health, like for example alzheimers, also means one loses the ability to speak a foreign language. For non native English speakers that will be a problem, as they can't communicate in English any more and will be totaly depended on people who can take care of them and talk with them in their own language.

I'm afraid the number of Thais speaking decent French for example is very limited and some people will be better off in their home country.

This is not last stop for the internationally pennyless ,aged, failing farangs! .This is Thailand which is for Thai people, we are visitors and when there is no funds and you are unable to take care of yourself.... it is time to go home to your own country since your vacation is over.

And what if some cannot ???

[elektrified]

There is also the problem of mental health. Deteriorating mental health, like for example alzheimers, also means one loses the ability to speak a foreign language. For non native English speakers that will be a problem, as they can't communicate in English any more and will be totaly depended on people who can take care of them and talk with them in their own language.

I'm afraid the number of Thais speaking decent French for example is very limited and some people will be better off in their home country.

This is not last stop for the internationally pennyless ,aged, failing farangs! .This is Thailand which is for Thai people, we are visitors and when there is no funds and you are unable to take care of yourself.... it is time to go home to your own country since your vacation is over.

That is easy for you to say. Some of these people have not been in their 'home' countries for many, many years, have no family left, no friends there, no resources to get there and once there, to live. Some were self-employed all their lives and never paid in to the Social Security fund in order to receive benefits when they get old.

[rickthailand]

Just a small thing to add...you haven't really clarified what you mean by busted-up farangs, but as we all know, just because somebody looks scruffy doesn't mean they have no money.

agreed

[uptheos]

Helping anyone in need is surely a good thing, regardless of who they are. No-one ever really knows other people's circumstances and shouldn't be so quick to judge.

Edited March 22, 2011 by uptheos

[NancyL]

According to the SSA website, the maximum benefit for a U.S. worker retiring at age 66 in 2011 would be $2366 per month. At 30 baht to the dollar, that barely meets the retirement visa requirement of a monthly income in excess of 66,667 baht.

[CMX]

There is an organization abroad, begun in France where civilian WWII deaths had been so many that many elderly citizens were cut off - from family and friends, human contact. It was not at all a financial matter, or at least not that alone. Most chapters now exist in the us.

I've had the honor to serve with an organization that grew from seeing the needs in like situations, though not because of war war. For those willing to reduce elderly suffering into one of money, I urge you to read a little about real problems that have nothing to do with blame - and some solutions.

www.littlebrothers.org

[Jingthing]

According to the SSA website, the maximum benefit for a U.S. worker retiring at age 66 in 2011 would be $2366 per month. At 30 baht to the dollar, that barely meets the retirement visa requirement of a monthly income in excess of 66,667 baht.

A very small percentage get that much. A more typical benefit is 1000 to 1500 per month currently. A person doesn't need that much income to get retirement extensions. Someone on social security would generally use the "combo method", adding the pensions benefit plus money in a Thai bank account to add up to 800K baht. There is no need to transfer in your full income annually either.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

They seem with no doubts to be farangs living on shoestring budgets and it shows. I often wonder how they manage to support themselves in Thailand and what they are doing here?

Once they discover how easy it is to stay in Thailand, then they pass the word round to their mates resulting in more arrivals of these International vagrants.

......."similar to what has recently happened in Cambodia."

Surely they must have at least £16,000/$26,000 in the bank every year. That's enough to live comfortably in Thailand. I have seen a few farangs myself who would seem to fit your unsympathetic description but I don't see how they get around the immigration requirements.

Could you briefly expand on what recently happened in Cambodia?

Just having 800K in the bank doesn't mean people are free to spend that much per year (also there is no requirement to transfer in or spend that full amount annually). It is a good buffer for an emergency though for people using the bank account method. I do think many people are squeezed out for financial/health reasons and others for many personal reasons have run out of options, and staying in Thailand even in dire straights seems the best current choice.