Who You Callin' Third World?

[blazes]

Yes, good answer, GeriatricKid.

I like the addition of things like postal service (agree re awful Mexico), but Thailand seems ok. Literacy is important, but it all depends what you are using your "literacy" for!! (Other threads here lately have discussed the appalling reading standards in Thailand). Literacy to read comics or newspapers is one thing, but literacy to get a feeling for the depth of human civilization, going back thousands of years through Greek and Roman literature and the whole legacy of the Renaissance???? (Ok, so that is specifically "Western" culture, but it is the culture that has brought the world to its present state of development...which, alas, includes filth, corruption and pollution...but also Beethoven, the Eiffel Tower and the eradication of many death-dealing diseases.)

Why does one come to Thailand for six months of every year?

1. It's warm

2. It's cheap (which raises questions of minimum wages or lack thereof)

3. If you smile randomly at a woman in the mall, she will not call the cops. (I exaggerate, but try smiling at a Canadian chick aged, say, 35, and you are 65...inevitably the word "creepy" will occur to her.)

While those are three positives, there are some significant negatives that will undermine your general health, such as traffic pollution, and a general disregard for the environment.....

[happyrobert]

This is an interesting topic.

I like the idea of looking outside official figures. As indicators, tapwater quality, sewerage, and beer are all valid.

My informal system includes postal services and libraries. Like canaries in the mines, these two services can usually tell you in what direction a country is going. For example, anyone who has tried to post a parcel in Mexico knows that there is no hope for that country whatsoever, while Fiji, which seems to have its fair share of problems, has an efficient and entreprenurial service. On the other hand, Fiji's library system is defunct. So far I have found Thai post offices very good but service (home delivery) not so good. One hundred percent loss of mail in Chiang Mai, but perfect home delivery @ Chiang Rai. I really don't know what to make of Papua New Guinea, where you have very few services (such as roads and hospitals) but you can do your banking using a mobile phone.

I would also add the provision and efficiency of reasonably priced wireless communication systems as a Performance Indicator. Australia does not pass this test. So far, my experience in Thailand regarding wireless broadband has been excellent.

Postal Service is an interesting concept for measurement but that is your feeling for identification.

Libraries are a social servicer and I have been waiting to see someone mention social services as I see them as a means for a country to go from 1st to 3rd status even though we havent defined the 2.

Look at the UK, Canada & Australia as an example where social services have primarily meant large demographics of the population are now being discriminated against. Where refugees are an allotment and they are seen as being treated better than the countries citizens. You only have to live in those countries for a short while to see the results and all 3 of them are classified as 1st world but the (semi) hidden aspects e.g crime, squalor and debt are increasing.

What about a definition of first world being countries more affcted by global financial crises? Yes I remember the Asian one which was regional.

Post Office....good thought. I have had some excellent experiences with the Thai post but in Mexico, where I lived for a time, once you've sent it, forget it. No one will ever see it again. That is probably why it is illegal, yep, actually a crime, to send a check by mail for payment on anything, which is why Mexicans spend an inordinate amount of time on traveling from utility company to cable TV place and standing in line, even though they actually use checks.

How about that? Checks. I think that both checks and credit cards are an integral part of a economy. What kind of economy, in recent years though, I'm not sure!

My friend lives outside Tokyo. He is feeling mild effects of the quake, but further north, they are really feeling it. How's cooperation and effective problem solving involved in 1st and 3rd world comparisons? The Japanese are resolute and purpose driven and don't point fingers, they point out solutions. Looting is non-existent.

Compare that with Katrina a few years back in New Orleans. The looting and shooting was so bad, cops left town. And blame is still being thrown around.

Edited March 28, 2011 by happyrobert

[JPPR2]

Speaking of banking, I have a Bank account in Thailand. I love the ATM availability, the fact you can transfer money around to other peoples accounts anytime any day. The machines accept cash deposits. The banks are open 7 days a week and you receive service. To me, this is extremely efficient. Although US has online banking it is limited to always having to be near a computer. I also like you can withdraw from any ATM and there is no fee unlike the US where you pay for fees at both ends.

Outside of that I love a cash based system Vs a credit. However I see more and more Thais using credit cards. It will at some point catch up to them like it did the US and then will come the 18 to 30% interests rates.

On edit..., if these ATM's were around the US like here they would be stolen every single chance someone had a chance to hook one up to the back of a pick up truck......

Edited March 28, 2011 by JPPR2

[happyrobert]

Speaking of banking, I have a Bank account in Thailand. I love the ATM availability, the fact you can transfer money around to other peoples accounts anytime any day. The machines accept cash deposits. The banks are open 7 days a week and you receive service. To me, this is extremely efficient. Although US has online banking it is limited to always having to be near a computer. I also like you can withdraw from any ATM and there is no fee unlike the US where you pay for fees at both ends.

Outside of that I love a cash based system Vs a credit. However I see more and more Thais using credit cards. It will at some point catch up to them like it did the US and then will come the 18 to 30% interests rates.

On edit..., if these ATM's were around the US like here they would be stolen every single chance someone had a chance to hook one up to the back of a pick up truck......

[/quote

The average American credit card interest rate is around 18.9%.

Approximately half of all credit card holders pay only their minimum monthly requirements. There are a total of 1.2 billion credit and retail cards in North America.

• Total consumer credit: $1.7 trillion.
• Credit card debt carried by the average American: $8,562.
• Total finance charges Americans pay each year $50 billion.
• Number of credit card holders who declared bankruptcy last year: 1.3 million.

]

Edited March 28, 2011 by happyrobert

[CPH]

This discussion has been up many times. It does not change the fact that Thailand is a third world country/developing country.

You cannot go around in Bangkoks business district and judge the level of Thailand. You have to see how people live in the country side,

especially in big areas in the north and north east where many families maybe live on 2-3000 baht per month. There is nearly no social

security at all, luckily theres free medicine and basic doctors help. As the world have developed and more people have more money, so have

Thailand developed in the recent decade, but it still lacks a lot of the things which are in the Western countries to not be a deceloping country.

A few years ago Thailand received massive development help from western countries.

The debt level of the US is only because Americans will not pay taxes. Raising the taxes a little would remove the debt in a few years. With the current 2 party political system this is however not possible.

[happyrobert]

This discussion has been up many times. It does not change the fact that Thailand is a third world country/developing country.

You cannot go around in Bangkoks business district and judge the level of Thailand. You have to see how people live in the country side,

especially in big areas in the north and north east where many families maybe live on 2-3000 baht per month. There is nearly no social

security at all, luckily theres free medicine and basic doctors help. As the world have developed and more people have more money, so have

Thailand developed in the recent decade, but it still lacks a lot of the things which are in the Western countries to not be a deceloping country.

A few years ago Thailand received massive development help from western countries.

The debt level of the US is only because Americans will not pay taxes. Raising the taxes a little would remove the debt in a few years. With the current 2 party political system this is however not possible.

RUH? What, we all gave it up a few years back cold turkey?

Try about 60% of the typical working Americans paycheck going to" taxes." Federal, state, local, property, sales, school and the myriad of fees and fines such as $600 for a license plate, $400 for a hunting license and a $275 fine for not wearing a bicycle helmet. Want to start a small bar in Florida? It'll cost you $80,000 for a liquor license. Building permit for an average house on the west coast...$700. My prior house in California? $18,000 a year in property taxes. Nope, not a mansion, it was a 3/2 on a lot with neighbors 15 feet to either side. The list goes on.

Even myself, retired here and never to return, and those Americans living here working for a Thai company, must file and pay federal income tax. Even my 86 year old mother on $1300 a month social security, yep, she had to pay income tax on that SS she earned from half a century of contributing.

Maybe paying too much in taxes in a country is a good category for determining 1st or 3rd world status. Would it be 1st? Or 3rd?

Arrrgh.

[mojaco]

I recall that a few years ago the USA government wanted to reclassify Thailand from 3rd world to 2nd world. However Thailand resisted the reclassification because they would get less free support dollars as a 2nd world country.

I don't recall whether Thailiand was reclassified or not.

Apparently there are advantages (for the ruling elite) to keep a country at a lower level of modernization.

[blazes]

This discussion has been up many times. It does not change the fact that Thailand is a third world country/developing country.

You cannot go around in Bangkoks business district and judge the level of Thailand. You have to see how people live in the country side,

especially in big areas in the north and north east where many families maybe live on 2-3000 baht per month. There is nearly no social

security at all, luckily theres free medicine and basic doctors help. As the world have developed and more people have more money, so have

Thailand developed in the recent decade, but it still lacks a lot of the things which are in the Western countries to not be a deceloping country.

A few years ago Thailand received massive development help from western countries.

The debt level of the US is only because Americans will not pay taxes. Raising the taxes a little would remove the debt in a few years. With the current 2 party political system this is however not possible.

RUH? What, we all gave it up a few years back cold turkey?

Try about 60% of the typical working Americans paycheck going to" taxes." Federal, state, local, property, sales, school and the myriad of fees and fines such as $600 for a license plate, $400 for a hunting license and a $275 fine for not wearing a bicycle helmet. Want to start a small bar in Florida? It'll cost you $80,000 for a liquor license. Building permit for an average house on the west coast...$700. My prior house in California? $18,000 a year in property taxes. Nope, not a mansion, it was a 3/2 on a lot with neighbors 15 feet to either side. The list goes on.

Even myself, retired here and never to return, and those Americans living here working for a Thai company, must file and pay federal income tax. Even my 86 year old mother on $1300 a month social security, yep, she had to pay income tax on that SS she earned from half a century of contributing.

Maybe paying too much in taxes in a country is a good category for determining 1st or 3rd world status. Would it be 1st? Or 3rd?

Arrrgh.

Well,since you ask, YES, it would seem that high-tax countries seem to produce the most advanced societies: Norway, Sweden, Denmark.

Advanced, as in excellent infrastructure, medical system, education level, artistic excellence, high quality of manufactured goods....

High suicide rate, apparently, but at least they kill themselves as opposed to other people (as in Amerika).

Justice system no better or worse than USA (see persecution of Assange and Wikileaks....guilty till proved innocent?)

But on the whole, if I were a Swede paying those high taxes, I think I would be more or less satisfied with the country we had produced. I wonder if there are some Scandinavians on this thread who would oppose my views here?

[JPPR2]

This discussion has been up many times. It does not change the fact that Thailand is a third world country/developing country.

You cannot go around in Bangkoks business district and judge the level of Thailand. You have to see how people live in the country side,

especially in big areas in the north and north east where many families maybe live on 2-3000 baht per month. There is nearly no social

security at all, luckily theres free medicine and basic doctors help. As the world have developed and more people have more money, so have

Thailand developed in the recent decade, but it still lacks a lot of the things which are in the Western countries to not be a deceloping country.

A few years ago Thailand received massive development help from western countries.

The debt level of the US is only because Americans will not pay taxes. Raising the taxes a little would remove the debt in a few years. With the current 2 party political system this is however not possible.

RUH? What, we all gave it up a few years back cold turkey?

Try about 60% of the typical working Americans paycheck going to" taxes." Federal, state, local, property, sales, school and the myriad of fees and fines such as $600 for a license plate, $400 for a hunting license and a $275 fine for not wearing a bicycle helmet. Want to start a small bar in Florida? It'll cost you $80,000 for a liquor license. Building permit for an average house on the west coast...$700. My prior house in California? $18,000 a year in property taxes. Nope, not a mansion, it was a 3/2 on a lot with neighbors 15 feet to either side. The list goes on.

Even myself, retired here and never to return, and those Americans living here working for a Thai company, must file and pay federal income tax. Even my 86 year old mother on $1300 a month social security, yep, she had to pay income tax on that SS she earned from half a century of contributing.

Maybe paying too much in taxes in a country is a good category for determining 1st or 3rd world status. Would it be 1st? Or 3rd?

Arrrgh.

HappyRoberts stats are quite factual. In fact it is the norm and the reality of living in the US.

The rich never pay taxes while the middle to lower class are saddled with the burden. My parents, who both worked their entire life and my dad still does at 72yrs old as a security guard, are basically living in poverty. Mortgage, Medical costs, property tax, Auto reg, Insurance, Cable, phone, fuel, food, are eating their life away. They are basically underwater as a great majority of the people are in the US. In fact property taxes eat away at almost all their SS benefits. Their auto insurance is actually going up and maybe rightfully so but there is zero public transportation available for them to get around so they are in a nasty catch 22. They had to move away from the city where access to things was easy to the suburb area where they are not easily accessible. Their original property taxes were no longer affordable. I still say that when you reach the deemed by the US govt as "Legal" retirement age your property taxes should be reduced significantly to assist the older folks on fixed incomes, but I digress

I originally was going to work here then realized I would be saddled with taxes back to the US, so I retired.

In the end every country has its own atrocities and we chose which ones we prefer to focus on to compare while the others we ignore. I think the term 1st world, 2nd world and 3rd world are funny. This is one world. How you want to place yourself so you can judge others is up to you.

US 1st world????, Thailand 3rd World.... Hmmmm.... You tell me. I guess it depends on your criteria, expectations and tolerance.

[cowslip]

Personal? - most language is agreed by consensus and misinterpreted by those who can't be bothered to learn.

"3rd World" like "PC" is one of those expressions that everyone THINKS they know, but in truth they are way off the mark.

However "third world" is now pretty much obsolete - it has no valid use in describing a country other than re-enforcing stereotypes and arousing prejudices.

trying to "define" it is about as useful as any other obsolete expression.....

"e.g. the OP has corraded some facts and figures which have clearly jargogled the thoughts of some posters, something I deliciate in and on occasion makes me kench....especially at the malagrugs who try to put forward their ill-conceived opinions as "fact"

...even if US does qualify on several points in reality it cannot ever qualify for something that doesn't exist.

Edited September 22, 2011 by cowslip

[soomak]

A reminder that Bangkok does not accurately represent Thailand. Pattaya and Phuket do not come much closer. Statistically, the average Thai lives in the Northeast region, works in agriculture, makes 90,000 baht per year, and has between six and seven years of education. Also, Thailand may have a very low unemployment rate, but those motorbike drivers you see hanging around on Bangkok street corners with their buddies who might make two or three fares a day are technically 'on the job.'

The problem with the 'third world' label is that it is too broad. Thailand is clearly on a different level than Laos or Cambodia, but it is not even close to claiming status on par with the USA or Western Europe.

:thumbsup:

[soomak]

Lets check the criteria:

POPULATION BELOW POVERTY LINE:

Anyone with some economic background, knows that the poverty line is different in every country, and that it is determined by the relative income.

So a family of 3 from the USA making 2,000 $US per month would be considered poor, while in Thailand they would be well of.

The millions of shop clerks we see every day in 7-11 or central world, would be considered poor in my country.

GDP GROWTH RATE:

How does this has anything to do with the level of development of a country? This just indicates the growth.

Congo and Zimbabwe had a growth rate of 9% last year, while France had just 1.5% growth. I'm assuming even TV members know that Zimbabwe and Congo are some of the worst places to live on this planet.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE:

Western European countries have a traditionally high unemployment rate, although these are very developed countries.

In Europe, unemployment is a result of the non-flexibility of the labor market, and the high level of wages.

In other countries, it can be caused by different factors.

In any case it is not an indicator of the level of development.

INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION GROWTH RATE:

See GDP Growth Rate above..

PUBLIC DEBT as a % of GDP:

Indicates the risk of lending money to this country.

Does not indicate the development level.

If anyone is interested in how the development level of a country is measured, here are some indicators:

1. Life expectancy at birth

2. GDP per capita (adjusted to price levels)

3. Adult literacy rate

4. Average years of education

5. % of enrollment in schools

The UN has a standard measurement called "Human Development Index".

Thailand is ranked 94th

USA is ranked 4th

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

Cheers

Edited September 22, 2011 by soomak

[ludditeman]

Undeveloped countries don't have good access to credit so the country with the least borrowing would be the least developed.

1st to 3rd world would be judged on education, health care and system of government.

You don't give any facts on those.

I assume because you want to suggest 'borrowing is bad' which of course it isn't.

[Khun ?]

Seems simple to what is first or third world.

1st world would be wages for common work are in the top tier of the worlds population and it's countries general population

has access to these earnings quite readily ( if you are not a lazy deadbeat that is). Infastructure is well established

and safety codes ( food, building and sanitation are not just a thought and are planned and well regulated).

Third world would be where the general population has little chance to achieve a decent wage, the elderly have little

support from public programs and live meek life's. Lacking of proper infastructure, safety codes enforcement and government

positions are not used for ones personal and private gain by the majority of it's employes

. Thailand fits well in this catagory!

1st world: you would be in this country to earn your living.

3rd world is where you would most likely bring money in to live on because earning it there would be difficult by most.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Khun ?

[lazygourmet]

Undeveloped countries don't have good access to credit so the country with the least borrowing would be the least developed.

If having access to credit is for you a proof of development, you'd better re-read Samuelson.

[JurgenG]

Undeveloped countries don't have good access to credit so the country with the least borrowing would be the least developed.

If having access to credit is for you a proof of development, you'd better re-read Samuelson.

Do you mind to explain ?

[cowslip]

so this is now being used to classify certain countries? -

"third" - why "third"?

and why "world"?

Why don't we just call it "Henry" - or "flobalot"? - it would have as much relevance to ....well nothing as the classifications attempted are purely arbitrary or even misleading

[theblether]

The old saying debunks this topic........

" There are three kinds of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics "

So we can rattle away forever about blah de blah country has blah de blah growth blah blah. Human experience tells you a lot more, so a better question for the OP would be, if you had a one month old baby, would you want that child to grow up in an average home in........

1. Thailand

2. USA

3. Ireland

Go figure

[buddy]

Nice, draw your conclusions then design a survey that supports it. May I suggest adding a few other questions? GDP per person, literacy rate, live expectancy, vague things like freedom of speech and minimal corruption?

I didn't draw conclusions, Bruce. Just listed publicly available facts then asked you to draw conclusions. Indeed, I had listed GDP per person, but deleted it when it would have made the country easily identifiable. Sorry if you're stumped without it.

But you did kindly answer the other question I posed, to wit, what other factors contribute to status. Well done!

P.S. Please tell me a place on earth with "minimal" corruption and where I might source that statistic.

Try researching transparency international.

www.transparency.org

[SteeleJoe]

Quotes are out of whack - sorry.

JimBeam:

Well, then allow me to rephrase my statement. You want to see poverty? Then go to AMERICA (a country) and spend some time driving the back roads of West Virginia, Arkansas and Tennesse.

Maybe not Mumbai, ooops, I mean India, but severe poverty nonetheless in a country that loudly proclaims prosperity for all its citizens.

America "lays claim to 1st world status"? It "loudly proclaims prosperity for all its citizens"? Really?

What was obvious in the OP only becomes more so. (By the way, do you claim this OP as your own original work?)

[SteeleJoe]

The United States used to be 1st world. Then it squandered it's wealth on pointless wars and now it's currency is trash.

Let me ask you a question. How many Americans travel to Thailand each year? And how many Russians travel to Thailand? I see more Russians around. Now who's got more money? Seems the 1st world and 3rd world countries are changing places.

I would much rather live in a "3rd world" country these days then a "1st world" country. The "1st world" has become impoverished through socialism and government spending. Defininitely not where's it's at anymore.

LOL. Comparing Russian travel to Thailand and that of US as an indicator of relative prosperity?!

Classic.

[SteeleJoe]

Lets check the criteria:

POPULATION BELOW POVERTY LINE:

Anyone with some economic background, knows that the poverty line is different in every country, and that it is determined by the relative income.

So a family of 3 from the USA making 2,000 $US per month would be considered poor, while in Thailand they would be well of.

The millions of shop clerks we see every day in 7-11 or central world, would be considered poor in my country.

GDP GROWTH RATE:

How does this has anything to do with the level of development of a country? This just indicates the growth.

Congo and Zimbabwe had a growth rate of 9% last year, while France had just 1.5% growth. I'm assuming even TV members know that Zimbabwe and Congo are some of the worst places to live on this planet.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE:

Western European countries have a traditionally high unemployment rate, although these are very developed countries.

In Europe, unemployment is a result of the non-flexibility of the labor market, and the high level of wages.

In other countries, it can be caused by different factors.

In any case it is not an indicator of the level of development.

INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION GROWTH RATE:

See GDP Growth Rate above..

PUBLIC DEBT as a % of GDP:

Indicates the risk of lending money to this country.

Does not indicate the development level.

If anyone is interested in how the development level of a country is measured, here are some indicators:

1. Life expectancy at birth

2. GDP per capita (adjusted to price levels)

3. Adult literacy rate

4. Average years of education

5. % of enrollment in schools

The UN has a standard measurement called "Human Development Index".

Thailand is ranked 94th

USA is ranked 4th

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

Cheers

There you go.

The old saying debunks this topic........

" There are three kinds of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics "

So we can rattle away forever about blah de blah country has blah de blah growth blah blah. Human experience tells you a lot more, so a better question for the OP would be, if you had a one month old baby, would you want that child to grow up in an average home in........

1. Thailand

2. USA

3. Ireland

Go figure

And again.

[cowslip]

The old saying debunks this topic........

" There are three kinds of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics "

So we can rattle away forever about blah de blah country has blah de blah growth blah blah. Human experience tells you a lot more, so a better question for the OP would be, if you had a one month old baby, would you want that child to grow up in an average home in........

1. Thailand

2. USA

3. Ireland

Go figure

No it doesn't - that is a very facile comment.

[Dave9000]

Relative income has little to do with the determination of the poverty line. The determinant is the buying power of the average wage in the country in question. If the average wage is 80,000baht, and that will buy in Thailand the same goods and services (food, rent, utilities, school fees, health care etc) as say $50,000 will buy in the US, then you have a point of comparison. Comparing dollars to baht without considering the purchasing power of each unit has no economic consequence.

The poverty line simply is the point at which expenses outstrip income. It is applied to the poor in an arbitrary fashion as it presupposes a lack of debt and relates to a theoretical inability to pay for life's basics due to a lack of sufficient income. The only prequalification is that the state determines the cost of supply of those staples.

Lets check the criteria:

POPULATION BELOW POVERTY LINE:

Anyone with some economic background, knows that the poverty line is different in every country, and that it is determined by the relative income.

So a family of 3 from the USA making 2,000 $US per month would be considered poor, while in Thailand they would be well of.

The millions of shop clerks we see every day in 7-11 or central world, would be considered poor in my country.

GDP GROWTH RATE:

How does this has anything to do with the level of development of a country? This just indicates the growth.

Congo and Zimbabwe had a growth rate of 9% last year, while France had just 1.5% growth. I'm assuming even TV members know that Zimbabwe and Congo are some of the worst places to live on this planet.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE:

Western European countries have a traditionally high unemployment rate, although these are very developed countries.

In Europe, unemployment is a result of the non-flexibility of the labor market, and the high level of wages.

In other countries, it can be caused by different factors.

In any case it is not an indicator of the level of development.

INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION GROWTH RATE:

See GDP Growth Rate above..

PUBLIC DEBT as a % of GDP:

Indicates the risk of lending money to this country.

Does not indicate the development level.

If anyone is interested in how the development level of a country is measured, here are some indicators:

1. Life expectancy at birth

2. GDP per capita (adjusted to price levels)

3. Adult literacy rate

4. Average years of education

5. % of enrollment in schools

The UN has a standard measurement called "Human Development Index".

Thailand is ranked 94th

USA is ranked 4th

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

Cheers

[cowslip]

rather than these pointless and inaccurate assumptions that try to classify countries into artificial groups, wouldn't it be more helpful to compare Thailand's current situation with other countries.

For instance "older" economies have a large established middle class, huge economy that grow very slowly and in most cases smaller divides between rich and poor. This is coupled to a relatively stable, democratic political system with proper separation of powers and controls over the excesses of commerce and industry.

[SomTumTiger]

3. If you smile randomly at a woman in the mall, she will not call the cops. (I exaggerate, but try smiling at a Canadian chick aged, say, 35, and you are 65...inevitably the word "creepy" will occur to her.)

The word creepy comes up in Thailand too - but you never bothered to learn the Thai word for "creepy".

[Payboy]

3. If you smile randomly at a woman in the mall, she will not call the cops. (I exaggerate, but try smiling at a Canadian chick aged, say, 35, and you are 65...inevitably the word "creepy" will occur to her.)

The word creepy comes up in Thailand too - but you never bothered to learn the Thai word for "creepy".

Hansum man?

[cowslip]

This discussion has been up many times. It does not change the fact that Thailand is a third world country/developing country.

You cannot go around in Bangkoks business district and judge the level of Thailand. You have to see how people live in the country side,

especially in big areas in the north and north east where many families maybe live on 2-3000 baht per month. There is nearly no social

security at all, luckily theres free medicine and basic doctors help. As the world have developed and more people have more money, so have

Thailand developed in the recent decade, but it still lacks a lot of the things which are in the Western countries to not be a deceloping country.

A few years ago Thailand received massive development help from western countries.

The debt level of the US is only because Americans will not pay taxes. Raising the taxes a little would remove the debt in a few years. With the current 2 party political system this is however not possible.

RUH? What, we all gave it up a few years back cold turkey?

Try about 60% of the typical working Americans paycheck going to" taxes." Federal, state, local, property, sales, school and the myriad of fees and fines such as $600 for a license plate, $400 for a hunting license and a $275 fine for not wearing a bicycle helmet. Want to start a small bar in Florida? It'll cost you $80,000 for a liquor license. Building permit for an average house on the west coast...$700. My prior house in California? $18,000 a year in property taxes. Nope, not a mansion, it was a 3/2 on a lot with neighbors 15 feet to either side. The list goes on.

Even myself, retired here and never to return, and those Americans living here working for a Thai company, must file and pay federal income tax. Even my 86 year old mother on $1300 a month social security, yep, she had to pay income tax on that SS she earned from half a century of contributing.

Maybe paying too much in taxes in a country is a good category for determining 1st or 3rd world status. Would it be 1st? Or 3rd?

Arrrgh.

lovely examples but they add up to nothing.......the US is obsessed with "small government, when that is an impossibility.....

Americans pay less tax now than they did in the sixties - successive governments (and presidents) have shyed away from taxation yet any country requires government services or infrastructure to some extent - so successive govts have simply borrowed to fill the shortfall in income from their own electorate.......

Edited September 26, 2011 by cowslip

[paulian]

Is this a trick question ? or is the OP just trying to show how smart he thinks he is ? Maybe he's an economics professor.

Without Googling anything, I seem to recall these terms were developed sometime during the Cold War between the US and Russia. and .... in my opinion the terms are outdated and are almost impossible to define correctly to every bodies agreement in current times. I think you would have to ask a Harvard Grad (Obama) or an Oxford Grad (Abhisit) for a better understanding of the outdated terms. Also, as I recall, it was never that hard to distinguish what a country was. A country developed with a stable government and currency aligned with the US was considered a first World Country. A country developed with a some what stable currency and infrastructure aligned with the Eastern Block, Communist Russia, was considered a second world country. All the rest were third world countries or emerging countries. So in your little quiz, obviously the 1st example must be Thailand and the 2nd surely is the US and the 3rd can apply to probably over a hundred other countries. What’s the point ?

[cowslip]

Is this a trick question ? or is the OP just trying to show how smart he thinks he is ? Maybe he's an economics professor.

Without Googling anything, I seem to recall these terms were developed sometime during the Cold War between the US and Russia. and .... in my opinion the terms are outdated and are almost impossible to define correctly to every bodies agreement in current times. I think you would have to ask a Harvard Grad (Obama) or an Oxford Grad (Abhisit) for a better understanding of the outdated terms. Also, as I recall, it was never that hard to distinguish what a country was. A country developed with a stable government and currency aligned with the US was considered a first World Country. A country developed with a some what stable currency and infrastructure aligned with the Eastern Block, Communist Russia, was considered a second world country. All the rest were third world countries or emerging countries. So in your little quiz, obviously the 1st example must be Thailand and the 2nd surely is the US and the 3rd can apply to probably over a hundred other countries. What's the point ?

Hear! Hear! - well said!