Uk Citizen Thai Wife Destitute In Germany

[spencerdharmagrafix]

Does anyone have a solution to this situation; (i was in it 2 months ago).??

Imagine being a UK Citizen living in Germany, been laid off from his job, refused Dole and Social security (due to lack of signed contract ending from ex - employer)

and wanting to return with his Thai wife (married in Germany) to the United Kingdom.

Suppose i have no-one in UK to sign as a sponsor for my Wife...faced with the prospect of eviction for not paying the rent, no dole or social security (although i paid taxes all year) and no prospect of any income..no family to help too. In addition i was faced with the possibility of deportation from Germany, due to the fact that one is not allowed to reside in germany with no income.

Does this mean that in this situation i would be deported to UK, and my wife to Thailand, due to the fact that the UK Immigration will not issue a Visa to the wife of a UK Citizen who is not resident in UK?

It seems ridiculous to me that your own country cna force you to separate from your wife and refuse her entry when you are a Citizen of that country!

Does anyone posess information on how to deal with a situation like this?

I have never read or heard of this kind of situation , and although i have managed to get myself out of it now, i would still like to know how the British Government would propose to deal with a situation like this.

Any answers?

[GuestHouse]

The answer is, I am afraid brutally simple.

If your wife does not already have permanent residence in the UK she would have to apply for a spouse’s visa. You would have to demonstrate that you can keep and house you wife without recourse to public funds. If you cannot demonstrate this she would not be given a visa to enter the UK.

Another catch to watch out for is, your wife cannot apply for a visa to enter the UK at the British Embassy in Germany unless SHE is legally resident in Germany. If she is in Germany on a tourist/visitor visa or has not received permission to stay in Germany the Embassy will not accept her application for a UK visa and she would have to return to Thailand to apply.

[Clip_My_Wings]

if you are UK citizen they can not deport you from Germany .. in effect you are an EU citizen and are have every right to stay there as long as you so wish protected under the EU laws. #

whether or not you can afford to is another matter. Im not sure about your entitlements to benefits but i suggest you see the british embassy and explain the situation. if you've paid tax i would imagine you could also recieve a tax rebate so it may be worht seeing an accountant or tax specialist. this might give you some income to fight of the wolves from the door

Does anyone have a solution to this situation; (i was in it 2 months ago).??

Imagine being a UK Citizen living in Germany, been laid off from his job, refused Dole and Social security (due to lack of signed contract ending from ex - employer)

and wanting to return with his Thai wife (married in Germany) to the United Kingdom.

Suppose i have no-one in UK to sign as  a sponsor for my Wife...faced with the prospect of eviction for not paying the rent, no dole or social security (although i paid taxes all year) and no prospect of any income..no family to help too. In addition i was faced with the possibility of deportation from Germany, due to the fact that one is not allowed to reside in germany with no income.

Does this mean that in this situation i would be deported to UK, and my wife to Thailand, due to the fact that the UK Immigration will not issue a Visa to the wife of a UK Citizen who is not resident in UK?

It seems ridiculous to me that your own country cna force you to separate from your wife and refuse her entry when you are a Citizen of that country!

Does anyone posess information on how to deal with a situation like this?

I have never read or heard of this kind of situation , and although i have managed to get myself out of it now, i would still like to know how the British Government would propose to deal with a situation like this.

Any answers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[loong]

You haven't stated how your wife is staying in Gernay. Is it a visa or does she have residency?

Check with the Brit Embassy.

If she is considered a citizen of Germany, surely she has the right to stay in any EU Country?

[the scouser]

There is no prohibition on issuing visas to the spouses of Brits who are not ordinarily resident in the UK. Indeed, as you have been living and working in Germany, for the purposes of getting your wife a visa to settle in the UK, you would be considered to be an EU citizen rather than a British citizen. Your wife would, therefore, be given a family permit by the British embassy/consulate free of charge and issued purely on the basis of the paperwork submitted; i.e. without any enquiry/interview.

Problem solved.

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

Scouse,

My Thai wife and I recently moved from the UK to Italy (her residence in the UK was under the probationary period of her spouse’s visa).

She was given a 12 month Schengen Visa for Italy and registered for her ‘Permiso di Sorgono’ – Permit to stay (Police Registration).

Three weeks after arriving in Italy we returned to the UK, on different flights, and she got hauled at immigration for entering without a visitor visa. OK I understand we can’t be resident in two places at once – they did let her through, but it was a close run thing and included a caution to obtain a visitor visa next time. I posted on this here on TV.

However, when we approached the British Embassy here in Rome, it was explained to us that they would not accept an application for a visitor visa from my wife until her ‘Permiso di Sorgono’ has been ratified – ie the final stamp placed in her passport, as opposed to the sticker stating that she has submitted her application.

I then asked what about application for Spouse’s Visa at the end of our assignment, again I was told the Embassy would not accept the application without my wife first having her formal ‘Permiso di Sorgono’.

I pointed out that I am in Italy working and I believe this to be an impediment against my moving in Europe for work. The officer repeated exactly the same advice, if a Thai Citizen does not have a formal ‘Permiso di Sorgono’ in their own right, the embassy will not accept the application.

Not Europe but similar.

This time last year we were in Singapore, again for work, again my wife had her own Employment Pass, but at Singapore the catch is, if the non Singaporean Citizen has not been in Singapore for more than 12 months they must return to their own country to make application for a visa to enter the UK.

Why is this important, because the embassy will not go out of their way to tell you these things, and if you submit an application they will happily take it, review it, refuse the visa and keep the fee.

OUCH!

[the scouser]

Hi Guesthouse,

No visa section can refuse to accept a visa application. What the embassy in Rome was probably trying to say is that as a matter of policy they don't issue visit visas until the applicant can prove they are resident in Italy; i.e. that they would refuse your wife's application, so save yourself the money and don't bother applying. Purely and simply, in this instance, they can't do this. Each application has to be judged upon its own merits: they can't apply a blanket policy to all applicants within the same category. Should your wife make a visit visa application and it be refused solely for the lack of a residence permit, she would have the right of appeal, and it's my belief that an adjudicator would laugh the visa officer out of court.

In general terms, a visa should be sought from the British embassy in the applicant's country of normal residence. However, in your wife's case, with or without the permisso di sijourno (forgive the bad Italian) she is ordinarily resident there and the embassy cannot refuse to accept the application.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

I hear what you are saying Scouse, but I'd not want to risk it with my own money, requiring a nomally resident person to have the legally required registration of residence doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I will admit though the Singapore rule sounds a bit dodgey. We wound up having to go back to Thailand to apply for my wife's UK Spouse's visa (having spent 11 months in Singers and having just got married in Singers).

The application turned out to be a formality, but I can't help but wonder if all this is not a case of rationing by discouragement.

[the scouser]

Hi Guesthouse,

It's not unreasonable when your dealing with a visit application from an itinerant Somali who wants to visit his long lost uncle in London, but when you're dealing with an application from the wife of a British citizen who is living and working in Italy, it's a different ball game. You are right, it is rationing by discouragement but there is no reason why, when her circumstances are substantially different to those of an itinerant Somali, your wife should be disallowed from applying.

You could test the waters by writing a letter asking for the embassy's policy and then copying their response to UK Visas, enquiring where in the immigration rules it stipulates that, in your case, your wife needs to have a residence permit before the embassy will even entertain an application. Afterall, the immigration rules say that the applicant has to satisfy the visa officer that they intend to leave the UK at the end of their holiday, which I'm sure is attainable without a residence permit.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

It's all a bit past that now as my wife now has her full residence stamp. Our visas are dealt with by my employer who has an adminstrator deal with all these things, she's off sick at the moment but when she gets back I'll ask her opinion.

I am as I think I told you going to challenge any refusal of the immigration office to issue my wife's Indefinate Leave to Stay on the grounds that we have left the UK. I will certainly update you on that when it comes to a full head of steam.

[Crossy]

My wife (then GF) applied for her UK visitor visa in sunny Rome.

The embassy don't accept personal applications, you MUST use an agency.

All applicants must have a permesso that's valid for 3 months after the intended date of return to Italy and a letter from their employer stating that they have a job on their return.

All this info is on the Rome embassy website.

It's all down to demonstrating intention to return (just like in BKK).

[the scouser]

Hi Crossy,

I can see why they do it - to dissuade no-hopers from applying. However, what they are asking for is proof of an intention to return to Italy which is at odds to the immigration rules which state that an applicant needs to display an intention of leaving the UK. Such a policy indicates a lack of faith in their own abilities to sort the wheat from the chaff, and is, I would wager, if not illegal, certainly in contravention of the spirit of the immigration rules, and would crumble if challenged. There is nothing wrong with an embassy advising applicants that their application is likely to be refused if pursued, but in refusing to accept visit visa applications without an accompanying residence permit, they are definitely in contravention of the rules.

Scouse.

[Crossy]

I agree Scouse, I'm quite sure that demonstrating an intention to return to Thailand would work, but now you've got to get it past the agency idiot, anything out of the ordinary, 'no-can-do' (sound familiar?). They had to be pursuaded that we could apply for a two year visitor visa (they wanted to go for only 6 months).

In previous years (before they implemented the agents only idea) I passed the embassy on numerous occasions, the crowd of north africans 'queing' at the visa entrance was something to behold, every one of them a no-hoper. We used an agency out of choice for that visit.

For consular services the embassy was great, got a replacement for a stolen passport in 24 hours (the Italians in the office were flabergasted). It took 6 months to get a replacement for my permesso that was lifted along with the passport, it would have been quicker to just apply to the Questura for a new one

Edited September 21, 2005 by Crossy

[the scouser]

the crowd of north africans 'queing' at the visa entrance was something to behold, every one of them a no-hoper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now you know who nicked your permesso.....

I had a look at the embassy website, and it does say that they also accept postal applications, so it should be possible to avoid the agencies.

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

the crowd of north africans 'queing' at the visa entrance was something to behold, every one of them a no-hoper.

That is the kind of generalization I've tried to avoid making when ever I've visited the British Embassy in Bangkok and seen the goings on there.

Judgmental, pointless, and offensive, doubly so when the topic of discussion is how to get your own sweetheart a visa to the UK.

[Crossy]

the crowd of north africans 'queing' at the visa entrance was something to behold, every one of them a no-hoper.

Now you know who nicked your permesso.....

I had a look at the embassy website, and it does say that they also accept postal applications, so it should be possible to avoid the agencies.

Scouse.

Yeah, forgot to mention postal applications, mainly because there is absolutely no way I'd trust my passport to the Italian postal system, slow, and even more 'leaky' than here.

The agencies really are the only way to do it now.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Crossy

[worldfun]

Noticed the post stating EU citizens are allowed to remain indefinite in Germany or any EU country. I however were of the belief its only valid when one have 'enough' income or if looking for work 3 months 'visa free'?

Please correct me if wrong & refer to relevant laws thanks

[GU22]

Suggest that you start with Free movement within the EU - a fundamental right.

What does the traditional right to free movement for EU citizens entail?

The right to free movement means that every EU citizen is entitled to travel freely around the Member States of the European Union, and settle anywhere within its territory. No special formalities are required to enter an EU country. This fundamental right extends to members of the EU citizen's family, and applies regardless of their situation or the reason for travel or residence......

......The right of every European citizen to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States is enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU, adopted in December 2000. The charter also states that these rights 'may' be granted to third-country nationals.

Edited November 18, 2005 by GU22

[worldfun]

thanks for the link & reading up on it a bit it seems I was pretty much right:

http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/fsj...movement_en.htm

EU citizens & their family is ONLY entitled to remain in another EU country that the EU citizens home country if they fulfill certain requirements:

1. Worker, self employed, student or in case of 'inactive' proff of sufficient funds to maintain the household!

2. Health insurance

In case 1) above cannot be fulfilled any longer e.g. lossing job or running out of funds one is no longer entitled to remain beyond 3 months