Afghanistan, Iran condemn Quran burning in US

[News_Editor]

Afghanistan, Iran condemn Quran burning in US

2011-03-25 03:01:36 GMT+7 (ICT)

KABUL (BNO NEWS) -- Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday strongly condemned the burning of the Quran by a US evangelical preacher in a Florida church and called on the United States to bring those responsible for the incident to justice.

"President Karzai on behalf of the Muslim people of Afghanistan and on his own behalf denounce the disrespectful and abhorrent act," a statement from his office said.

Karzai called the incident an effort to incite tension between religions.

American pastor Wayne Sapp burned a copy of the Quran on Sunday. Terry Jones, a US pastor that cancelled a plan to burn copies of the holy book last year to mark the anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks, was also present at the Florida church.

Sapp, a member of the Dove World Outreach Center, claimed that the holy book had been found "guilty" of crimes in the course of an eight-month trial and was therefore "executed," Iran's semi-official Fars news agency reported.

Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehman-Parast also condemned the act, which he described as "blasphemous and repugnant".



"Such radical acts are the result of Islamophobic moves in the US and those who have committed such crimes are contributing to US hegemonic plots, which seek to create a rift between divine religions," Mehman-Parast said, as cited by the news agency.



"The US government, under the international norms and laws, is obliged to prevent the spread of religious hatred," he added.








The U.S. Embassy in Pakistan condemned the incident on Tuesday and said that it was an isolated act done by a small group of people. Ambassador Cameron P. Munter added that the United States absolutely rejects religious intolerance in any form.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2011-03-25

[coma]

Who cares what you think about burning books. Mind ya own .... business.

[Ulysses G.]

Even nuts have the right to free speech and I am not speaking exclusively about American pastor Wayne Sapp.

[geriatrickid]

Did Iran or Karzai speak out when the Taliban destroyed the 3 ancient Buddhas at the designated world heritage site? Did the condemn the desecration?

[transam]

Did Iran or Karzai speak out when the Taliban destroyed the 3 ancient Buddhas at the designated world heritage site? Did the condemn the desecration?

Unfortunately it's a one way street for this '' religion ''.

[H2oDunc]

Why is it we seem to have to give a thought to their beliefs but they seem to have a zero tolerance for the rest of the worlds ? They can burn our flags and even a Poppy to remember the fallen in the second world war. They can even go into one of their own revered Mosques and blow it to bits and as mentioned already they wilfully destroyed the giant Buddha's and the Muslim world says absolutely nothing.

I have said for a long time that they should be shown the same tolerances they show to other people, races and religions and at the moment that appears to be about zero.

[EnSvenskTiger]

Some nice hate speeches there dudes!

What can be said about Christianity with looking back the last century or so?

Not a much positive.

The Times of India, March 2, 2001

NEW DELHI: Leading Islamic clerics and leaders on Friday condemned the destruction of Afghanistan's ancient Buddha statues in central Bamiyan province by the ruling Taliban regime as "un-Islamic" and "an act of cultural genocide against humanity."

"It is an outrageous act. It should be treated as a crime against humanity. Bamiyan is part of the world's cultural heritage. The destruction of Buddha statues is an act of cultural genocide against humanity," Babri Masjid movement leader and former diplomat Syed Shahabuddin said. Declining to draw a parallel between the Taliban action and the destruction of the disputed structure at Ayodhya on December 6, 1992, Shahabuddin said, "here it was some groups whereas in Afghanistan, the government itself is committing the crime."

http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm

[transam]

Some nice hate speeches there dudes!

What can be said about Christianity with looking back the last century or so?

Not a much positive.

The Times of India, March 2, 2001

NEW DELHI: Leading Islamic clerics and leaders on Friday condemned the destruction of Afghanistan's ancient Buddha statues in central Bamiyan province by the ruling Taliban regime as "un-Islamic" and "an act of cultural genocide against humanity."

"It is an outrageous act. It should be treated as a crime against humanity. Bamiyan is part of the world's cultural heritage. The destruction of Buddha statues is an act of cultural genocide against humanity," Babri Masjid movement leader and former diplomat Syed Shahabuddin said. Declining to draw a parallel between the Taliban action and the destruction of the disputed structure at Ayodhya on December 6, 1992, Shahabuddin said, "here it was some groups whereas in Afghanistan, the government itself is committing the crime."

http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm

Someone always condemns their extremist branch but do nothing to stop it, they even allow the indiscriminate bombing and killing of their own Muslims.

[Orac]

Did Iran or Karzai speak out when the Taliban destroyed the 3 ancient Buddhas at the designated world heritage site? Did the condemn the desecration?

Unfortunately it's a one way street for this '' religion ''.

"Iran, the neighbouring nation also ruled by Muslim clerics was one of the fist countries to add its voice to world protests on Tuesday condemning the destruction of Buddhist statues by the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and called on the United Nations to take serious action against this ruling "grouplet".

"Strangely, certain Taleban-led individuals, calling themselves "cleric"', have ordered destruction of ancient sites of the mankind society, citing blasphemy and idolising as reasons," a statement released by Iran's Cultural Heritage Organisation (CHO) said."

From http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/mar_2001/taleban_buddha_statues_1301.htm

As for Karzai, he didn't really come to prominence until after this happenned though there are several references to him condemning it after he gained power.

[kuffki]

Some nice hate speeches there dudes!

What can be said about Christianity with looking back the last century or so?

Not a much positive.

The Times of India, March 2, 2001

NEW DELHI: Leading Islamic clerics and leaders on Friday condemned the destruction of Afghanistan's ancient Buddha statues in central Bamiyan province by the ruling Taliban regime as "un-Islamic" and "an act of cultural genocide against humanity."

"It is an outrageous act. It should be treated as a crime against humanity. Bamiyan is part of the world's cultural heritage. The destruction of Buddha statues is an act of cultural genocide against humanity," Babri Masjid movement leader and former diplomat Syed Shahabuddin said. Declining to draw a parallel between the Taliban action and the destruction of the disputed structure at Ayodhya on December 6, 1992, Shahabuddin said, "here it was some groups whereas in Afghanistan, the government itself is committing the crime."

http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm

and yet none of the ones complaining have any problem with burning flags.

especially when it comes to afgan, In Afghanistan ‘they’ grow and refine heroin for a living, and, yet, have a moral objection to beer.

[Orac]

Some nice hate speeches there dudes!

What can be said about Christianity with looking back the last century or so?

Not a much positive.

The Times of India, March 2, 2001

NEW DELHI: Leading Islamic clerics and leaders on Friday condemned the destruction of Afghanistan's ancient Buddha statues in central Bamiyan province by the ruling Taliban regime as "un-Islamic" and "an act of cultural genocide against humanity."

"It is an outrageous act. It should be treated as a crime against humanity. Bamiyan is part of the world's cultural heritage. The destruction of Buddha statues is an act of cultural genocide against humanity," Babri Masjid movement leader and former diplomat Syed Shahabuddin said. Declining to draw a parallel between the Taliban action and the destruction of the disputed structure at Ayodhya on December 6, 1992, Shahabuddin said, "here it was some groups whereas in Afghanistan, the government itself is committing the crime."

http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm

and yet none of the ones complaining have any problem with burning flags.

especially when it comes to afgan, In Afghanistan ‘they’ grow and refine heroin for a living, and, yet, have a moral objection to beer.

At the time of the giant buddhas being destroyed Iran didn't recognise the regime in Afghanistan:

"The Taleban, or movement of religious students, seized Kabul in 1996 and have imposed a puritanical mix of Pashtun tribal and Sharia law in a bid to create their idea of a true Muslim state.

Their regime is recognised only by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and is not represented at the United Nations or the Organisation of the Islamic Conference."

link as above http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/mar_2001/taleban_buddha_statues_1301.htm

Edited March 25, 2011 by Orac

[Ulysses G.]

Why is it we seem to have to give a thought to their beliefs but they seem to have a zero tolerance for the rest of the worlds ?

Because a lot of PC Westerners condone this doublespeak.

[Steely Dan]

The fact that they seem to expect the U.S government to take action is very revealing. But certain freedoms are enshrined in western law and constitutions. To paraphrase Voltaire - 'I don't agree with what the man says, but I'd die for his right to say it'.

To expect any action from the U.S government implies the law being changed to accomodate this, a very dangerous and slippery slope indeed. The right to draw cartoons was tested a few years back and again explicit threats and boycotts were arranged to try and force the Danish government to change it's own law to prosecute those who published them.

The liberal appeasers unfortunately are trying their best to appease radicals and in so doing threaten to erode all our hard won freedoms.

[Steely Dan]

and yet none of the ones complaining have any problem with burning flags.

especially when it comes to afgan, In Afghanistan ‘they’ grow and refine heroin for a living, and, yet, have a moral objection to beer.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is still openly on sale in Cairo, and many other Arab cities I dare say.

[geriatrickid]

Some nice hate speeches there dudes!

What can be said about Christianity with looking back the last century or so?

Not a much positive.

The Times of India, March 2, 2001

NEW DELHI: Leading Islamic clerics and leaders on Friday condemned the destruction of Afghanistan's ancient Buddha statues in central Bamiyan province by the ruling Taliban regime as "un-Islamic" and "an act of cultural genocide against humanity."

"It is an outrageous act. It should be treated as a crime against humanity. Bamiyan is part of the world's cultural heritage. The destruction of Buddha statues is an act of cultural genocide against humanity," Babri Masjid movement leader and former diplomat Syed Shahabuddin said. Declining to draw a parallel between the Taliban action and the destruction of the disputed structure at Ayodhya on December 6, 1992, Shahabuddin said, "here it was some groups whereas in Afghanistan, the government itself is committing the crime."

http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm

Again, what did Iran's government or Karzai do when these Buddahs were destroyed?I don't need a rehash of your perceived injustices done by Christians. Nor do I want to hear about Muslims in India who were motivated to speak out since Buddah is revered in India. Had they not issued their comments they most likely would have suffered for it.

So once again, what did Iran and Karzai do when the Buddahs were desecrated? They are running off at the mouth now, so what is their stance on respect for other religions?

[geriatrickid]

At the time of the giant buddhas being destroyed Iran didn't recognise the regime in Afghanistan:

"The Taleban, or movement of religious students, seized Kabul in 1996 and have imposed a puritanical mix of Pashtun tribal and Sharia law in a bid to create their idea of a true Muslim state.

Their regime is recognised only by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and is not represented at the United Nations or the Organisation of the Islamic Conference."

link as above http://www.iran-pres...tatues_1301.htm

So what if Iran did not recognize the government of Afghanistan. Did the Iranian government condemn the descreation of the world heritage site? Did the Iranian condemn the activity? The US and other western governments did not recognize the Taliban either and yet they spoke up.

[Orac]

At the time of the giant buddhas being destroyed Iran didn't recognise the regime in Afghanistan:

"The Taleban, or movement of religious students, seized Kabul in 1996 and have imposed a puritanical mix of Pashtun tribal and Sharia law in a bid to create their idea of a true Muslim state.

Their regime is recognised only by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and is not represented at the United Nations or the Organisation of the Islamic Conference."

link as above http://www.iran-pres...tatues_1301.htm

So what if Iran did not recognize the government of Afghanistan. Did the Iranian government condemn the descreation of the world heritage site? Did the Iranian condemn the activity? The US and other western governments did not recognize the Taliban either and yet they spoke up.

Did you read my post #9????? Or indeed the link it was taken from which you have quoted back????

Edited March 25, 2011 by Orac

[Jingthing]

The US government DOES condemn the burning of any religious books anywhere, so I think they are making a big thing out of a little thing (though the act is disgusting and intentionally inflammatory). That said, I am bothered that mainstream Muslim culture expects the entire world to respect their taboos. Like depicting an image of their deity, if someone in Denmark does that, so many want to kill people over that. It's a big thing for a Muslim, for a Buddhist it's nothing, why not freedom of expression for the Buddhist? You can have creative freedom about any other religion at least in countries that aren't theocracies of that religion, but not Islam. All over the Muslim world (there are over 50 Islamic states) you will find antisemitic cartoons that would have fit well under the Nazi Reich, but foreign governments except Israel don't say a word about it, afraid of the wrath of a culture so massive in numbers now (by some accounts, now the most popular religion in the world), not to mention OIL. I find that unacceptable, and a sign of a culture that does indeed clash with liberal western democratic values. Many people who DO see a real and dangerous clash between the core values of the Muslim world and the west are often cowed into acting like there isn't, to appear tolerant and PC. Religious freedom is great, but not so great when a religion pushes into other people, not to mention how Muslims treat their fellow religionists who want to CONVERT out of Islam (often by murdering them). So who's winning?

Edited March 25, 2011 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

Looking from another angle; Supposing Islam had never existed and someone in modern day America produced a book he proclaimed as an absolute guide to both law and morality which should take precedence over existing U.S law, and he called it the Quran. What then if he gathered followers for his new religion and set up shop trying to bend local law and customs to his code.

Of course he would be taken out quicker than you could say David Koresh. Longevity sure changes perspective.

[Wallaby]

At the time of the giant buddhas being destroyed Iran didn't recognise the regime in Afghanistan:

"The Taleban, or movement of religious students, seized Kabul in 1996 and have imposed a puritanical mix of Pashtun tribal and Sharia law in a bid to create their idea of a true Muslim state.

Their regime is recognised only by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and is not represented at the United Nations or the Organisation of the Islamic Conference."

link as above http://www.iran-pres...tatues_1301.htm

So what if Iran did not recognize the government of Afghanistan. Did the Iranian government condemn the descreation of the world heritage site? Did the Iranian condemn the activity? The US and other western governments did not recognize the Taliban either and yet they spoke up.

I thought this was about the burning of the Koran, not about what what other countries do with books, flags, monuments etc.

I would think the 'western world' would consider themselves to be above such things but if you think it is ok then that's a matter for you. I personally don't think it is ok for the desecration of religious monuments etc, whether they be heritage listed or not.

This thread is about the burning of the Koran and I do think it should be condemned.

[Ulysses G.]

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."

Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 London)

[Jingthing]

Wow, an amazing quote. Obviously any western leader who said something similar today would last about five minutes in office and would need to seriously beef up his security staff. No, I don't think rhetoric that strong should be said in today's world , but I think any westerner who doesn't see some grains of truth in that text is being dishonest. Obviously, out of date too, pre-OPEC.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

One things for sure, if now was 1939 our current crop of western politicians would have taken the Neville Chamberlain easy option over the hard choices Churchill has to make. We have the likes of Christopher Hitchins and precious few others.

As for respect, well yes it should be a two way street.

[Jingthing]

Agreed, we should respect all people. But somehow, thing have gotten messier than that ideal.

[Steely Dan]

Actually returning to the OT I wonder why the preacher decided to burn the Koran instead of any other holy book, there are plenty to choose from many violent and shocking by modern standards.

http://www.cftech.com/BrainBank/OTHERREFERENCE/RELIGION/HolyBooks.html

[Steely Dan]

Edited to keep on topic.

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/03/24/iran-and-hezbollah-outraged-over-islamophobic-koran-burning-by-florida-pastor/

Iran and Hezbollah Outraged Over “Islamophobic” Koran Burning by Florida Pastor…

Edited March 25, 2011 by Steely Dan

[metisdead]

Several off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Steely Dan]

The desecration of holy objects has another dimension, is it the desecration which is the 'problem' or who is doing the desecrating?

Here's Christopher;-

http://www.slate.com/id/2159936/

All over the non-Muslim world, we hear incessant demands that those who believe in the literal truth of the Quran be granted "respect." We are supposed to watch what we say about Islam, lest by any chance we be considered "offensive." A fair number of authors and academics in the West now have to live under police protection or endure prosecution in the courts for not observing this taboo with sufficient care. A stupid termIslamophobiahas been put into circulation to try and suggest that a foul prejudice lurks behind any misgivings about Islam's infallible "message."

Well, this idiotic masochism has to be dropped. There may have been a handful of ugly incidents, provoked by lumpen elements, after certain episodes of Muslim terrorism. But no true secularist or even Christian has been involved in anything like the torching of a mosque. (The last time that such a thing did happen on any scale—in Bosnia—the United States and Britain intervened militarily to put a stop to it. We also overthrew the Taliban, which was slaughtering the Hazara Shiite minority in Afghanistan.) But where are the denunciations from centers of Sunni and Shiite authority of the daily murder and torture of Islamic co-religionists? Of the regular desecration of holy sites and holy books? Of the paranoid insults thrown so carelessly and callously by one Muslim group at another? This mounting ghastliness is a bit more worthy of condemnation, surely, than a few Danish cartoons or a false rumor about a profaned copy of the Quran in Guantanamo. The civilized world—yes I do mean to say that—should find its own voice and state firmly to Muslim leaders and citizens that respect is something to be earned and not demanded with menace. A short way of phrasing this would be to say, "See how the Muslims respect each other!"

Edited March 26, 2011 by Steely Dan

[Orac]

The issue here seems to be that one group of religious fundementalists are trying to bait another bunch of religious fundementalists. That Iran and Afghanistan have condemned this is hardly surprising - what seems odd is that they are singled out since the US has also condemned it.

[bonobo]

It is not spineless appeasement to condemn demographic hatred, which is what happened with this Quran burning. In the US, we have the right to say what we want, and burning any book is part of that freedom of speech. But that is not to say that burning any religious book as a sign of hate is a good idea. It shows a lack of civilized behavior and contributes to strife.

And to point out that religious tolerance in many Muslim countries can be lacking does not take away from the fact that the burning is still a crass and stupid move. The tit-for-tat attitude just results in spiraling violence. "We," as supposedly civilized, advanced peoples, do not have to sink to any level of intolerance.

Let me point out two non-related cases but which none-the-less might illustrate my point.

I am personally against capital punishment, and I have made my views known time and time again. Yet my official residence is in California, where capital punishment is still on the books. From the arguments that some posters are making in this thread, I should not be able to condemn capital punishment around the world because it is the law of the land in my own state.

And just because we can do something does not mean we should. There was a little-publicized incident along the contentious China-USSR border a number of years ago. Troops were massed on both sides. At one point along the Amur where the troops were face-to-face, a small Soviet unit got in formation, turned around, then bent over and bared their butts to the huge poster of Mao the Chinese had erected. Their right to do so, and they probably thought it was funny. Yet that night, Chinese soldiers crossed the river armed with clubs and beat some of those Soviet soldiers, with an unknown number of the Soviets actually dying. The point is, there are always consequences to actions, so we need to consider those when we take those actions.

With this pastor's aggrandizing, doesn't he think makes his church a target from some equally intolerant and fanatical Muslim? Was his grandstanding worth losing his church and possibly injury or death to someone in his congregation?

Sure this guy can burn a Quran. And the US government has to point out that it condemns this act. But that does not mean the US government is spineless. It is just responding in a civilized matter.