Ground Rod Can

[Crossy]

Since I seem to have been lumbered by name

Let's have a few thoughts:-

Firstly ANY ground is better than no ground, particularly if you also have a decent RCD.

The ground in question is a second rod (the primary rod is buried in concrete).

Now let us examine the item in question:-

The rod appears rusty, suggesting it's not copper or copper clad

The clamp and its bolt also appear corroded.

It is unclear how the assorted wires are actually attached to the clamp.

It is normal to run a single wire to the rod and use a ground bar in a protected location to connect all the others.

OK, it's not perfect, but it is an easy fix.

Firstly, let's take it all apart and give that clamp and bolt a good wire-brushing. Brush the rod too. Ideally if the rod isn't copper or copper-clad it should be replaced by one that is.

Run a decent sized (4 or 6mm) wire from an earth bar somewhere protected (preferably near the distribution board) to the location of the rod, connect the 3 wires to the bar. It's far easier to ensure a good connection to a single wire than to a multitude of assorted conductors.

Put it all together, exactly how the wire links to the clamp depends upon the design of the clamp itself, however you do it make sure it's secure and all making good contact, try to avoid having lots of different metals in contact as this can encourage corrosion.

Test it if you have the means, even a light bulb on a wire between the rod and your incoming live (before the RCD) will give an indication (TAKE GREAT CARE PLEASE).

Now, paint the clamp, connection and the top of the rod with acrylic paint. This will protect from moisture and prevent that nasty corrosion from coming back in a hurry.

Ensure that both your rods are actually linked back to your ground bar, whilst it's not going to jump out and kill you having two different grounds could potentially introduce a hazard.

Test your RCD by pushing the 'Test' button.

Sit back with a beer, satisfied in the knowledge that you've spent a couple of hours making your home safer.

Further comments are welcome

[doglover]

My photograph was for my friend, Canadian & electrician doglover.

I just saw these recent posts. I am back in Canada for the time being and no longer have have my days free as I did in Thailand to entertain myself with TV. Thanks for posting the photo and for your contributions PP. Always appreciate the good nature of your posts my friend. Have to say I agree with Canopy's comments and also Crossy's (fairly challenging to disagree with the guy). Your present gounding setup is certainly better than most in Thailand but would not be up to code in many other countries for the reasons already mentioned. However, it could (and should) certainly be improved upon (just as Crossy mentioned) with minimal effort. And on a side note..... I always feel better about my beer drinking when I've "earned it" through a bit of physical work.

[electau]

In reply to post # 15.

In Australia it is the supply authority who decides the location of the metering position and in domestic electrical installations the metering and switchboard are combined in a metal weatherproof enclosure on the property. In Australia it is an offence to carry out electrical work unless you are licenced under the legislative requirements.The main earth connection must be visible for inspection and exposed to the weather and the last 300mm of the electrode is usually saddled to the outside wall of the structure for mechanical protection.

In Thailand metering is not on the consumers property so there is no requirement to have the main switchboard in an external enclosure on an outside wall.

Edited May 2, 2011 by electau

[electau]

I prefer a copper clad steel earthing rod.

A galvanized water pipe will eventually rust away to nothing.

Galvanised waterpipe (hot dipped) is approved as an earth electrode and was used before copper clad steel became readily avaiable in the electrical industry.

[doglover]

In reply to post # 15.

In Australia it is the supply authority who decides the location of the metering position and in domestic electrical installations the metering and switchboard are combined in a metal weatherproof enclosure on the property. In Australia it is an offence to carry out electrical work unless you are licenced under the legislative requirements.The main earth connection must be visible for inspection and exposed to the weather and the last 300mm of the electrode is usually saddled to the outside wall of the structure for mechanical protection.

In Thailand metering is not on the consumers property so there is no requirement to have the main switchboard in an external enclosure on an outside wall.

Thanks Electau. I wasn't quite believing the claim in post #15 that the distribution panel (CDN lingo for switchboard) was really mounted on the exterior but with yourself backing it up I can accept it as fact. In Canada it is also is an offence to carry out electrical work unless you are licenced under the legislative requirements. In the past a DIYer could install the electrical in their own home under a home owners permit which would subsequently have to pass inspection but those days are over, as far as I'm aware. However, the last time I performed residential work was 14 years ago. In Canada the meter is installed on the exterior of the home in a location chosen by the electrician and then the distribution panel is mounted in line with the meter on the interior of the home connected via a conduit nipple. So I don't understand why in Aus the meter being mounted on the exterior necessitates the switchboard also being mounted on the exterior. Makes for a more expensive switchboard enclosure and a pain in the butt for accessing ones switchboard, especially in inclement weather conditions. On the sunny side, it does free up that space on the interior of the home where in Canada it would be an unusable space as the panel area must remain unobstructed. So maybe that's the logic?

[electau]

In answer to post # 35 by doglover.

Only the metering requirements are required to be accessible at all times so they are located on the outside wall of a domestic electrical installation. Provision is made for 2 meters and a time switch usually but the main switchboard can be mounted inside the building subject to the requirements of AS3000. The metering enclosure is fitted with a hinged panel for the mounting of the meters and circuit protection devices (MCBs RCDs) etc. In multi tenanted installations metering is at one location only and units are all separately metered, with sub mains and load centre (CU) for each individual living unit.

[powderpuff]

I prefer a copper clad steel earthing rod.

A galvanized water pipe will eventually rust away to nothing.

Galvanised waterpipe (hot dipped) is approved as an earth electrode and was used before copper clad steel became readily avaiable in the electrical industry.

Since most water pipe in Thailand is PVC the above post has no merit in Thailand. Use a proper ground rod. Cheap & easy.

[powderpuff]

Thank Crossy. Your opinions mirror mine. Many expats will come on this board looking for ideas of how to run their own grounding systems because normal Thai construction is woefully lacking. What I showed can be done by anyone who can operate a drill & has any mechanical skills. Is it perfect? NO. But for the guy who has a big hifi or a hot water heater it will give him some ideas how to do it himself. So thanks for looking at it.

We would all love to work to code but sadly here there isn't any (YET).

[electau]

I prefer a copper clad steel earthing rod.

A galvanized water pipe will eventually rust away to nothing.

Galvanised waterpipe (hot dipped) is approved as an earth electrode and was used before copper clad steel became readily avaiable in the electrical industry.

Since most water pipe in Thailand is PVC the above post has no merit in Thailand. Use a proper ground rod. Cheap & easy.

3/4inch ( 20mm) Galvanised waterpipe may be used in lieu of an 12.7mm copper clad electrode. You just cut a length of water pipe to the required length and drive into the soil. Do not encase in concrete and leave open to the weather. Paint the connection with a metallic paint for corrosion protection. Ref AS3000.

Protect the earthing conductor from mechanical damage.

Remember that there are alternative methods that comply with minimum earthing requirements.

　

Hot dipped galvanised water pipe is used for many other purposes, it is not just used for water supply.

,

Edited May 12, 2011 by electau

[electau]

Acceptable earth electrodes, vertical type.

Material - steel.

Copper clad, 12mm circular rod.

Copper plated, 12mm circular rod.

Stainless steel, 12mm circular rod.

Hot dipped galvanised, 16mm circular rod.

Hot dipped galvanised, section with a minimum cross sectional area of 200 sqmm and with no part less than 3mm thick.

Material - non ferrous (excluding aluminium)

Solid, 12mm.

(Ref AS3000/2007).

[wpcoe]

You just cut a length of water pipe to the required length and drive into the soil. Do not encase in concrete and leave open to the weather. Paint the connection with a metallic paint for corrosion protection. Ref AS3000.

Why should it not be encased in concrete nor protected from the weather? (Or, am I mis-reading what you meant?)

[Crossy]

You just cut a length of water pipe to the required length and drive into the soil. Do not encase in concrete and leave open to the weather. Paint the connection with a metallic paint for corrosion protection. Ref AS3000.

Why should it not be encased in concrete nor protected from the weather? (Or, am I mis-reading what you meant?)

You can certainly protect it from the weather, that's what the original posting was about, however, the connection must remain accessible for inspection and maintenance.

I'm pretty sure that's what electau intended to say

In the UK domestic installations mostly use copper sheathed steel (not copper plated) or hot-dipped galvanised, which, contrary to popular belief, will last a long time provided the coating is not damaged, those with money to burn use solid copper.

[Naam]

You just cut a length of water pipe to the required length and drive into the soil. Do not encase in concrete and leave open to the weather. Paint the connection with a metallic paint for corrosion protection. Ref AS3000.

Why should it not be encased in concrete nor protected from the weather? (Or, am I mis-reading what you meant?)

You can certainly protect it from the weather, that's what the original posting was about, however, the connection must remain accessible for inspection and maintenance.

I'm pretty sure that's what electau intended to say

In the UK domestic installations mostly use copper sheathed steel (not copper plated) or hot-dipped galvanised, which, contrary to popular belief, will last a long time provided the coating is not damaged, those with money to burn use solid copper.

there's also the alternative using Naam's™ Ground Rod© which consists of a copper pipe in which a steel rod (concrete reinforcement) is inserted, e.g. 12mm steel rod in ½" copper pipe (if i recall correctly). advantages, saves copper, lasts a lifetime and is easy to drive into the ground.

[powderpuff]

Crossy. I am going to do the upgrades you suggested. Thanks

[David006]

In reply to post # 15.

In Australia it is the supply authority who decides the location of the metering position and in domestic electrical installations the metering and switchboard are combined in a metal weatherproof enclosure on the property. In Australia it is an offence to carry out electrical work unless you are licenced under the legislative requirements.The main earth connection must be visible for inspection and exposed to the weather and the last 300mm of the electrode is usually saddled to the outside wall of the structure for mechanical protection.

In Thailand metering is not on the consumers property so there is no requirement to have the main switchboard in an external enclosure on an outside wall.

...boy this getting longer than "war and peace" in more ways than one!! A cage rattling question for the electrical legal beagle...why, in all of our three different new overpriced houses in Oz were there never any GFI/RCDs installed as standard? Bit of a legislative oversight or a lobby by the "overpriced sparky association"...LOL

BTW DIY electrical work is allowed in Australia if it is inspected by some "certified? registered" sparky...trouble is the inspection costs more than the work in most cases....and you think Thailand is corrupt!... In Canada there is the "red book" available for DYIers and there is a set reasonable fee which is more equitable..

Similarly with gas installations ..I once installed a gas oven for a mate and he in turn got a qualified mate to inspect it...I DON'T think his house has blown up yet.....

Edited May 15, 2011 by David006

[electau]

In answer to #46 by David006.

RCDs have been mandatory in Australia under AS3000 on new residential electrical installations since 1992.

Since 2007 all lighting circuits must be protected on new residential installations.

Provision is made under other legislation to install RCDs on older installations where , a property is bought or sold, or by Ministerial directive to the electrical industry.

In Queensland an electrician can not work on a residential electrical installation unless a RCD is fitted. The exception is to fit the RCD. so that the installation complies.

The person who inspects and connects electrical work to a source of supply is responsible for the work connected. He is required to give you a certificate of test which has his licence number and contractors licence number on it.

If DIY work is found and the person who connects it can not be found the owner of the property is held legally responsible.

[electau]

You just cut a length of water pipe to the required length and drive into the soil. Do not encase in concrete and leave open to the weather. Paint the connection with a metallic paint for corrosion protection. Ref AS3000.

Why should it not be encased in concrete nor protected from the weather? (Or, am I mis-reading what you meant?)

So that moisture can penetrate below the surface of the concrete. Generally this means the area of a radius of about 50mm around the electrode is not concreted.

[powderpuff]

Hey guys. I found a neat solution for the top of the ground rod can. It is a threaded cap using on septic tanks. The cap is made of brass or bronze.

[powderpuff]

So Crossy I was out today shopping at some of the better hardware stores & elec supply shops. None of them had a ground bus. So I decided to build my own. Just bought a piece of predrilled strap & some stainless bolts nuts & washers. I'll mount this to the side of my house & it will make a tidy install. Thanks for the idea.I am sure I could have found a proper ground bus for sale if I was persistent enough. One made of bakelite.

Edited May 21, 2011 by powderpuff

[doglover]

Hey guys. I found a neat solution for the top of the ground rod can. It is a threaded cap using on septic tanks. The cap is made of brass or bronze.

Great idea PP! Looks much more professional than a simple pvc cap.

*BTW... are those 3/8" bolts (or whatever the metric equivalent would be) you are using for your custom built ground bus? It is hard for me to tell from the picture what size they are. If so, it may be hard to find stake-ons for your wires. If that is the case you could add another flat washer which would provide a secure termination point for your ground wires between the two flat washers*

Edited May 27, 2011 by doglover