Help - Need Info On How To Move To Thailand

[travelskr]

hello all! my husband (Italian) and I (American) both love Thailand and are interested in trying to move there. We are 35 and have a business in Italy that would provide us a yearly income that would allow us to live abroad comfortably. However since we are not over 50 and have no Thai family, we need to find a way to move to Thailand. We are thinking of going in November/December with a 60 day visa that we hope to extend for 30 days and then making several visa runs for the next few months while looking and learning about living there. But it would be helpful to find out from other expats about other ways to immigrate. For example if you purchase land or a condo or house, is it easy to get residency? Or should we consider renting/buying a small business to get work visas? We are open to ideas. Is it possible for us to try to stay 8-9 months making several trips in and out of Thailand or are we going to run into issues and have visas denied after 3 times? Thanks in advance for any and all help. We would really like to see this dream become a reality, but the particulars are a bit daunting! Thanks again!

[bifftastic]

Others may have different suggestions, but I think the best bet for you both would be to study the Thai language at a recognised language school. There are requirements to attend a certain number of classes per week or month, I believe, but it's not a full time study course.

It would mean you can get a Non-Imm ED type visa, which, if you keep attending the school, will enable you to stay in The Kingdom for a year at a time. I also believe, again others may correct me, that you can extend this for as long as three years.

No visa runs, no 'red stamp refusals' and you get to learn the language of the country you wish to live in.

In your position, that's what I'd do.

Good luck with it all

Biff

Oh, and as for accommodation, I'd rent a nice house somewhere. All depends on where you want to live, but renting seems easy and straight forward

Edited March 28, 2011 by bifftastic

[jombom]

Yes, I would agree, with nearly all of the earlier post. Wait a while before you buy somewhere.

You can get work visas (actually they are extensions of stay) if you buy a business. However, the rules and methods are difficult to comprehend. You will need to do some research, and this is a good site to do your initial research. My understanding is that, because you are both Farangs, you will need 8 Thai employees as a minimum. There is a 4 to 1 guideline. But this is only a rough guideline --- the specific business, may be treated differently.

There are other methods, but these usually involve substantial cash, and are to be avoided, if possible.

Good luck with your project.

[InterestedObserver]

Unless you are independently wealthy, with some serious cash to back you up, you are way too young to consider moving to Thailand and fighting with immigration, for the next 15 years, for permission to stay until you can retire at age 50. Residency is not easy, the current batch of applicants has been waiting for approval for approximately 5 years, this after a multi-year application process. Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, but they can purchase a house or condominium in their name - all of which does nothing for their temporary immigration status. If you expect to come to Thailand and relax for the remainder of your life, then you had best investigate further.

Edited March 28, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[travelskr]

I've thought about a language school as a way to get a long term visa, but haven't seen much info anywhere. As for a business, I was thinking a small bar or something low key that wouldn't be too over-involved, but I know it's complicated. I was hoping to find someone with a similar situation who could give us some info. If you purchase a house or condo, they don't give you any way to stay beyond the 60/+30 tourist visa? It seems absurd to be able to buy property but then not be able to stay there beyond 90 days???? We are "independently wealthy" but my husband is a part owner of a beach/restaurant in Italy and on a good year can make between 60,000-80,000 Euro. In Italy you can work like a dog and get by renting and then work bot like a dog and be able to buy a house in the States, but in Thailand I think we could have a really nice life.

As for coming this winter and trying to stay say from December 2011- September 2012, would we be able to do it with a 60/+30 day visa and then make some short trips in and around SE Asia via plane? Or are they going to stop us say in June 2012 and say we have done too many visa runs? Is it unrealistic to want to stay 9-10 months? Thanks again for the info and advice!

PS if anyone needs any info on how to get married/move to/live in Italy, let me know, I could write a book!

[bifftastic]

If you're working in Thailand, for a Thai company, for example, then you can buy a condo, have a work permit, and stay until that runs out, which it won't if you stay employed. Or, if you are married to a Thai national and meet the financial requirements for that extension of stay, then you get to stay in the condo you've bought for a year, then extend again. The same applies for the over 50's who retire here.

You seem not to fall into any of these categories which is why I suggested the study route.

I'll try and find some information for you and send you some links.

I think it would be a good way for you to come to Thailand without having to worry about the tourist visa 'problem' and then you could investigate all the other avenues open to you.

Do you have any particular part of the country that takes your fancy?

I would suggest that running a bar in order to get work permits for both of you might be a lot more trouble than it was worth when you could attend a couple of classes a week and take your time exploring and enjoying yourselves.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/59287-best-thai-language-school/page__st__550 have a look at this thread from the Thai language forum. In that forum are links to some of the sponsors who offer language courses. there are also some very knowledgeable folk who could advise you as to where to start looking.

I'm not saying a business isn't a good idea for you, but the ED visa would give you a chance to get settled and not worry about tourist visas running out or doing border runs.

Hope this helps.

Biff

Edited March 28, 2011 by bifftastic

[Phil Conners]

Learning Thai and getting a ED visa would probably be the best start for you, allowing you to learn the language and get experience living here before making more expensive decisions such as starting a business and buying property.

For information about Thai language schools and related visas I suggest you send a PM to our sponsor macwalen. Walen is one of the largest Thai languages schools in Thailand.

[taxin]

You don't need to learn Thai to move to (and live in) Thailand, anyone who tells you this is talking through their rear ends ! You can live here without learning Thai, as 95% of expats do.

As for ED visas forget it, do visa runs and enjoy what the rest of South East Asia has to offer. Later if you decide you want to settle then you can learn.

I wonder how many TV members sent the OP a PM offering to help them get an ED visa ?..

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[travelskr]

Taxin,

Of course we wouldn't need to learn Thai and I'm sure most people don't. But I would like to learn some Thai and can't imagine living in a foreign country without some language skills (I've been in Italy for a couple of years and made sure to be proficient before coming here). Knowing the language has made my life way easier and much better and I've seen other foreigners who have moved here and suffered b/c of lack of language skills.

So here's my question if we want to be in Thailand for 9-10 months, is it possible to go for 3 months with the original/extended tourist visa then do 6-7 months of visa runs? Or will they stop us after 3? If so, then the language school is a great way to go. Since I've started to look around, it seems that they give you a visa that is valid for one year but you must extend it after 90 days for 90 day periods. There are several schools in Phuket that will get you a visa and the cost is covered in the price of the classes you take. The classes don't seem overly stressful 2 hrs/2 times a week. After 90 days if you want to stay, you pay for more classes and then go to the Phuket Immigration office and extend there paying 1900 Baht. That way there are no unwanted visa runs and you are cool for 3 more months instead of just 30 more days and the stress and cost of flying in and out of Thailand. But maybe I'm wrong????

[bifftastic]

Rats? Really, so I'm a rat am I? The Op asked about options for staying in Thailand. An Ed visa is an option. If someone wants to live in a country and not learn the language then that's their choice. I happen to think it's a fairly ignorant choice, but there you go.

I have nothing whatsoever to gain from offering my advice and I find the insinuation to the contrary extremely offensive.

Obviously the Tourist visa is an option but the OP said they wanted to LIVE in Thailand not just visit and circumvent the rules by pretending to be a tourist whilst trying to stay permanently.

I suppose you would also suggest that if they happen across someone ignorant enough not to have learned English that they can make themselves understood by speaking louder and pointing.

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[whatchamacallit]

My advice is for at least the 1st year - come and stay here (Thailand) on double entry tourist visas and extend it and when the time comes go out and apply for another double entries. Thailand does show a different face to those who live here full time than those who come for a short holiday ever gets to see.

Do not commit to anything permanent including buying a condo (or a house) until you're sure - just rent. Also you don't need to get and ED visa as this too will tie you up, because (technically) you must attend school. You want to explore your options and possibilities for the 1st year.

Having said that, we lived here for 5 years now and plan to continue to live here. I am under the age of 50 and for the past 4 years I've been on Non-Immigrant-O Visa with multiple entries - this visa is good for 1 year (you can stretch it to 15 months) with border runs every 90 days. For the 1st couple of years I was granted Non-O visa on the basis of visiting friends until they said "no more" :-( Then for the past 2 years, I was able to get Non-O visa on the basis of owning a condo here in Thailand in my name from the Thai Embassy in Brisbane. Please know that as far as I know Brisbane (and maybe Hull in England) is the only Thai Consulate who is still issueing this visa (Non-O on the basis of owning a condo). At some point in the future I have a feeling they too will say - NO More!! ;-(

I will turn 50 in August, so I'll be applying for the Non-OA visa aka Retirement Visa. ;-)

[InterestedObserver]

Just invest at least 10 million baht in a condominium or Thai government bonds. Problem solved, you can get a renewable 1 year extension of stay based on investment from immigration. You did mention that you were independently wealthy. Stay as long as you want. Welcome to Thailand.

Edited March 29, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[johnch12111]

If you are in italy why not pop over to the UK and get a 12 month Non o visa from hull or do it by post,,,you will just need a rental agreement for the visa to be issued worth looking into.

[Mario2008]

If you are in italy why not pop over to the UK and get a 12 month Non o visa from hull or do it by post,,,you will just need a rental agreement for the visa to be issued worth looking into.

Hull doesn't issue any more on the base of renting property in Thailand.

[TacoBoy]

So many ways to stay long term even if under 50.

In addition to suggestions before, here are a few more suggestions.

If you are free enough and can afford to travel, then you can get a double entry visa which extended will be 6 months.

Then you can either fly somewhere or to home in Italy and return again to Thailand getting a 30 day visa exemption arrival. Or go to a Thai Embassy or Consulate outside Thailand and get a new single or double entry visa(if possible).

You can fly into Thailand as many times as you like and receive 30 days every time with no limit on the amount of entries (for now).

As for starting a small bar etc. you can't get a visa based on that, nor can you work at the premisis unless you get a business visa. If you invested tons of money, then you could get the visa, but not worth the investment capitol required to obtain a business visa.

Better to chose alternate visa ways to stay for the time frame you will be staying.

Don't think they have limited the amount of single entry tourist visa's you can get which are about every 90 days outside Thailand.

[travelskr]

My advice is for at least the 1st year - come and stay here (Thailand) on double entry tourist visas and extend it and when the time comes go out and apply for another double entries. Thailand does show a different face to those who live here full time than those who come for a short holiday ever gets to see.

Do not commit to anything permanent including buying a condo (or a house) until you're sure - just rent. Also you don't need to get and ED visa as this too will tie you up, because (technically) you must attend school. You want to explore your options and possibilities for the 1st year.

Thanks for the info, Whatchamacallit, we definitely know that things are different once you move someplace, it's never the same as it was on vacation. I've already had this experience moving to Italy! That is why we want to come for a year or so and see before committing to a property or business. The ED visa is a great option and I am genuinely interested in learning some Thai.

Sounds like you've been lucky so far with your Non-O visas. Can you give me more info on how to get a double entry visa and exactly how long it is good for? We can pop up to the Thai embassy in Rome to get our visas when the time comes.

We are planning to head over in Nov/Dec and find a hotel in Phuket for a bit. There are a ton of Italians that are there for the winter and some are close friends of the family. One guy knows almost everyone there and we are going to ask him to help us find a small place to rent somewhere on the island. From Phuket there are several flights out of the country for when we might need to make a visa run.

My concern is that we would have to be making visa runs every 30 days but if we can find a way to have 90 days, that's a totally different story. Can anyone clear this up?

Here are some questions:

1. how do you get a double entry visa?

2. how long is this visa good for?

3. after the double entry runs out, do you need to leave the country or do you go to an immigration office?

4. how many times can you keep doing visa runs?

5. can you keep getting visas from embassies in other countries, or will they stop you after a while?

6. how can i thank you all for your great info!?!? thanks again!

[TacoBoy]

From Trvelskr:

"My concern is that we would have to be making visa runs every 30 days but if we can find a way to have 90 days, that's a totally different story. Can anyone clear this up?

Here are some questions:"

1. how do you get a double entry visa? A. Apply @ any Thai Consulate or Embassy locally.

2. how long is this visa good for? A. Single entry 60 days extend @ local immigration 30 days equals 90 day stay. Double entry is good for Two entires of 60 days each and two extensions of 30 days each equals 180 days stay. You Must Cross the Border at the end of the first entry or extension of Tourist Visa. Then you simply return to Thailand to activate the second entry. Can leave and enter by land, air, or water if the visa is still in effect.

3. after the double entry runs out, do you need to leave the country or do you go to an immigration office? A. go to Immigration office for the 30 day extension, then leave the country the end of that extension either to apply for a new Tourist Visa at a Thai Embassy or Consulate. Or return to Thailand to activate the second entry.

4. how many times can you keep doing visa runs? A. Unlimited at this time. 30 days allowed arrival by air, and 15 days arrival by land or sea.

5. can you keep getting visas from embassies in other countries, or will they stop you after a while? A. For now, no limit on single entry Tourist Visa's, but some places will either limit the amount of double entries, and only issue a new single entry Visa.

6. how can i thank you all for your great info!?!? thanks again!

You should be good for at least 90 days minimum at a time other than having to go to immigration at the end of 60 days TV for 30 day extension, then crossing the border or flying out every 90 days.

then return with either a new 30 day visa exempt by air, or a new Tourist Visa

Rules of amount of entries can and has changed in the past, but think the current rules are gonna stay pretty much standard for a while.

Edited March 29, 2011 by TacoBoy

[travelskr]

wow Taco,

You are a wealth of information! This is GREAT! I am pumped with this new info! As much as I am interested in learning Thai, my husband is not, not even a little bit interested in studying! He'd do it if necessary but very unwillingly! This puts a whole new perspective on things and gives us flexibility to settle in and see if we can live there. I hope that the Thai embassy in Rome gives out double entry visas, seems like it depends on where you go. But Italy and Thailand have a long standing friendship, so maybe we will have no problem getting a double here, if not we'll do a single and then head to Cambodia perhaps and see if we can get a double. Thanks again for the info! Now we just have to get through the summer and get there!

[TacoBoy]

Possibly you can apply by post (mail) or in person with the Thai Embassy and submit the appropriate fees.

You would probably have to call or e-mail them to ask how to appy for a double entry visa to cover about 6 months travel in thailand.

Italians and foreigners living in Italy have a couple different requirements for the Tourist Visa's.

Here is the website for forms and other visa info from Thia Embassy Rome

http://www.thaiembassy.it/

Edited March 29, 2011 by TacoBoy

[taxin]

Good informative info Taco. Perfectly explained !

An ED visa is NOT an option for the vast majority of long term visitors to Thailand. In fact in all my time in Thailand I have never met anyone on an ED visa. I only ever see posters in toilets advertising them !!

[Phil Conners]

Well the beauty of this forum is that you receive information about the different options available and can then make an informed decision.

I have once had the unpleasent experience of having to take a minibus to the Cambodian border for a renewal. I'm fortunate enough to be able to live in Thailand on visa extensions, but if I didn't have that option I would try anything else to avoid another visa run. But that's just my opinion

[whatchamacallit]

I hope that the Thai embassy in Rome gives out double entry visas, seems like it depends on where you go. But Italy and Thailand have a long standing friendship, so maybe we will have no problem getting a double here,

Yes I've been lucky with my Non-O so far, but I'm so tired of trying to find loopholes and worrying about what they're going to do next year...... Probably I am the only person who is sooooo looking forward to turning 50 soon.

Applying for a double entry visa should be very easy - you WILL get it and it is the best option for you guys at least for the 1st year. You can learn Thai on your own time and term (NOT as a requirement to stay) and your husband can go to the beach everyday :-).

Good luck with your move and enjoy...

Edited March 30, 2011 by whatchamacallit

[moe666]

Good informative info Taco. Perfectly explained !

An ED visa is NOT an option for the vast majority of long term visitors to Thailand. In fact in all my time in Thailand I have never met anyone on an ED visa. I only ever see posters in toilets advertising them !!

How often do you get out having never met anyone on Ed visa. I have been here only 5 months and have met at least 10 people on ED visa.

[travelskr]

Here is an update on what we've done since this spring:

1. bought round trip tickets Italy-Thailand for 8.5 month stay

2. booked a hotel room in Bangkok for 3 nights at beginning of stay

3. went to Thai embassy in Rome last week with all the necessary documents, successfully got a double entry visa (thanks to advice found here)

4. done tons of resarch on living and opening a business in Thailand and discovered the Amity treaty that Thaliand has with the USA (allows Americans to be 100% owners of business avoiding the 51% thai partner potential problem)

5. begun to pack since we leave in 12 days!

Thanks again for all the great info!!! If we decide to stay another year we may take advantage of the Ed visa, so thanks for that info too!

[attrayant]

Thanks for the update. I enjoy seeing older threads bumped with relevant updates. You must be happy that your desires are materializing into reality.

And on an unrelated note, what's with all the apostrophes in "visas"? It's only twice in this thread but it seems to be an epidemic in other threads.

Edited November 22, 2011 by attrayant

[Jingthing]

Forgetting the high end investment visa option for a moment, any foreigner can buy a CONDO in Thailand, even on a 30 day entry stamp. However owning the condo gives no residency rights.