Express Trains To Suvarnabhumi Airport Suspended

[ib1b4]

SBK, I do understand your feeling and the concern.... But I'd hasten to add, what's being bashed here is not people or a nationality per se.

What's being bashed here is a culture of indifference and inattention to details, where it exists, that leads to problems throughout the society...

Those of us who live here do so mostly, I'd assume, by choice and free will. So we must like it...and I do... But that doesn't mean there aren't faults to be called out... same as any other place. And the one we're talking about is probably one of the bigger/biggest ones on the table here.

Where's the German bashing?

It seems that Siemens is up to their neck in culpability for some of the mess? Their design? Their lack of quickly delivering spare parts? etc.

Vee not build da tunnell at da airport , das is your problem yah.

[whybother]

I'm sorry but I don't even understand this power-connecting carbon brush mechanism. What does it do? Can one of you technical wizzes dumb this down for me please. And please no smartass comments that it connects power to the train. I got that part.

GK, if you do a google search on "Siemans Carbon Brushes" it bring up a lot of links about washing machine parts.

Why would a faulting washing machine stop the trains from running?

Wouldn't they be better off having the laundry facilities at the stations rather than on the trains??

[scorecard]

I hate to say this, but how typically Thailand...

How long's the service been running since the start now, six months or so???

And they already have train parts wearing out, supposedly because of some faulty design on the rail line itself at the airport...

Strange though...because they test ran the trains for quite some time at the beginning... and after that they've been running a full regular schedule for several months now...

So why is this maintenance problem just surfacing now... Or it took them some months to work their way thru their entire supply of replacement parts without doing anything proactive to resolve the problemms???

Of course, you gotta wonder why the Thai folks running the line let it deteriorate to the point where they had to pull the trains out of service and cancel operations...

You mean to tell me.... they didn't know this problem was coming far enough ahead of time to sort out the spare parts problem before it got critical??? Hard to imagine...

But then again, TIT.

(PS - Just wait till the same thing happens with spare parts for Thailand's (possible) future nuclear power plants... OOOPS..... Call Germany QUICK!!!!)

Another point about the original design. Why do the doors need to have the 'flap' at the bottom which is nothing less then dangerous. If someone's leg (especially a child) got in the way there would be a very serious injury.

Why is this door closing method needed?

There must be many other door designs which fit the overall specifications which are not dangerous, and there are dozens of example, the doors fitted to the airport trains in Hong Kong, , airport express from the airport to Kuala Lumpur city, all the shinkanzen trains in Japan and fast trains all over Europe, and many many more.

Perhaps it's 'old stock' which got unloaded through a 'special deal'!

Hope we're not going to see these doors on the high speed train from Nong Khai.

[dunkin2012]

Geez......... you guys just keep complaining ....

and give 'em another HUBBIE....

Won't you all have any blow and get your work done smoothly all the time? ..............

Give 'em a chance.......dude

Edited March 31, 2011 by dunkin2012

[Briggsy]

As has been shown by numerous stories over several years, the people profiting from running limousine and taxi services from the airport will fight tooth and nail using every technique to defend their income stream. Bribing somebody to get them to fail to order spare parts for the airport link would be fairly simple to achieve.

[dantilley]

As has been shown by numerous stories over several years, the people profiting from running limousine and taxi services from the airport will fight tooth and nail using every technique to defend their income stream. Bribing somebody to get them to fail to order spare parts for the airport link would be fairly simple to achieve.

Given the fact that each express train had an average of about 6 people per train, I doubt the taxis would benefit much from this. For a start, many of the potential express line passengers would just use the city line instead if the express wasn't running. So maybe one or two extra taxi fares per hour to be gained from the suspension of the express line?

[jackr]

Enough with the Thai bashing thanks, my patience has worn completely thin on this kind of attitude.

Don't see any real bashing, but to be fair, it's a bit inept and quite typical. Would you see it happen to the MRT in Singapore?

[Nawtier]

Enough with the Thai bashing thanks, my patience has worn completely thin on this kind of attitude.

Sorry Miss

[thaihome]

We have been having a problem with a German company that supplied a major piece of equipment (USD20+ mil). The “O” rings on the cylinders are wearing out much faster then anticipated and the company is stonewalling on supplying replacements (as required under warranty) and refuses to say why they wear out so fast. The after sales/installation support by German companies is well known. Seems to be a cultural thing that they refuse to acknowledge the design may not be perfect.

TH

[Payboy]

Why not blame Siemens, their the experts.

Because, executing a public works contract here starts with the best design that could be drafted on paper for a pre-allocated budget; and ends with the cheapest materials you can get for the same money. Guess why?

[Payboy]

Vee not build da tunnell at da airport , das is your problem yah.

Love it!

[Scott]

I have always marveled at German engineering and technology. They are among the best. The German's, however, can be a little rigid and in Thailand, flexibility is a key factor in keeping things up and running.

[ratcatcher]

Why not blame Siemens, their the experts.

Because, executing a public works contract here starts with the best design that could be drafted on paper for a pre-allocated budget; and ends with the cheapest materials you can get for the same money. Guess why?

The above simple, concise statement says all we need to know to understand why things fail here. In a word CORRUPTION.

Lack of accountability and inefficiency . Nothing will change anytime soon.

[bridge]

Enough with the Thai bashing thanks, my patience has worn completely thin on this kind of attitude.

Hardly Thai bashing.

My patience has worn thin over thin skinned people like you.

[baboon]

I hate to break this to some of you.

I spent 15 years on the railways in Britain.British Rail,Railtrack and Network Rail.All of the above were managed just as ineptly as anything in Thailand,so would ot be feeling too smug if I were you.

[jfchandler]

I won't dispute the corruption issue.... it's clearly an often present factor... And in this case, that may have something to do with what caused the problem in the first place.. We really don't know what's causing the problem as yet.

But we do know one thing: the State Railway of Thailand is the underlying operator of the ARL and responsible for running it, and hopefully keeping it in operation. So regardless of who was at fault for the original problem, it is/was the SRT that had the responsibility for obtaining sufficient operating parts and taking whatever measures are necessary to correct the underlying problem.

For whatever reason, it seems SRT didn't or couldn't do that. How they could let the situation deteriorate to the point of having to cancel the Express Line for a period of days and reduce service on the City Line, at least to me, says a lot about the caliber of SRT as an operation. They don't exactly have the best reputation among Thai government/quasi-government agencies.

Regardless of what caused the original problem, SRT should never have let it come to the point of having to cancel service on a major and brand new public transit line in the country's capital city. It's not quite the same thing as a bus breaking down or having a flat tire.

[thaihome]

...Regardless of what caused the original problem, SRT should never have let it come to the point of having to cancel service on a major and brand new public transit line in the country's capital city. It's not quite the same thing as a bus breaking down or having a flat tire.

Are you suggesting that the TRT should have procured the parts themselves even though it appears Siemens is suppose to do so as part of their warranty obligation?

I suspect that if they had done so, the same posters that are condemning the Thais for letting the parts run out would be condemning the Thais for buying them when Siemens was suppose to do so.

For many here, there is nothing the Thais can do correctly.

TH

[dunkin2012]

...Regardless of what caused the original problem, SRT should never have let it come to the point of having to cancel service on a major and brand new public transit line in the country's capital city. It's not quite the same thing as a bus breaking down or having a flat tire.

Are you suggesting that the TRT should have procured the parts themselves even though it appears Siemens is suppose to do so as part of their warranty obligation?

I suspect that if they had done so, the same posters that are condemning the Thais for letting the parts run out would be condemning the Thais for buying them when Siemens was suppose to do so.

For many here, there is nothing the Thais can do correctly.

TH

[jfchandler]

TH, it seems you're making a lot of assumptions that aren't based on the known facts...

I don't know exactly what the warranty obligations of Siemens are. And the OP article says Siemens is providing the replacement brushes...though it doesn't say whether SRT is simply paying for them or if Siemens is providing them under some kind of parts warranty provisions.

We also don't know if the underlying problem is one caused by an engineering fault, a construction fault or a combination of the two. So it would seem pretty hard to place any clear blame on that issue, with the known facts at hand.

But regardless of whether the parts needed to be purchased or obtained under warranty, and regardless of whether it was a design or construction flaw causing the problem, SRT's main job was to keep the rail line and trains in operation. In that job, they clearly have failed. I'd certainly like to know WHY they couldn't manage to keep their own brand new rail line running?

They've had months of running the line now. Their job was to get enough brushes in a timely manner to keep the trains running and/or to take the necessary steps to fix the problem that's causing them to wear out prematurely...

Once they've done that and the trains can continue running, then the lawyers and others can sort out who's responsible/to blame and who gets left footing the bill. That's the operator's job.

Edited March 31, 2011 by jfchandler

[whybother]

Shall we blame the Thais for Melbourne's problems with Siemens trains, too?

Train overshoots platform:

The overshoot was the worst of at least 16 such incidents involving Siemens trains this year. The train involved in each case was immediately withdrawn from service - leading to cancellations and delays because Metro has few spare trains.

[Jawnie]

There is still the regular service to the airport which runs every 20 minutes. Beats the hell out of taking a taxi.

[Buchholz]

My German friend ran the Thai Airport link along with other Falang Nationalitys until in December Siems was given the boot.They had 1 months notice to leave,due to the fact that Siemes do not do business the Thai way !

Seems that would be in the news somewhere.

.

[Buchholz]

Why not blame Siemens, their the experts.

I remember the trouble in Melbourne when they took over the water board, would not buy spares !!!

oops... you mean they have a prior history of messing up in other countries?

Hmmmm...

[Sateev]

I'm sorry but I don't even understand this power-connecting carbon brush mechanism. What does it do? Can one of you technical wizzes dumb this down for me please. <snip>

Hey GK! If you really are geriatric, then you must remember dynamos - those things that used to charge your battery before they invented alternators with diode packs that kept blowing up.

And if you remember dynamos, you must remember having to change the carbon brushes that picked up power from something that was whizzing around and putting it in your battery.

I guess those old brushes did the same as these brushes that they need at swampy - connecting power to something that's spinning around.

I could be completely wrong of course.

Only about 50% wrong.

Ever notice the silver 'bannister'-looking things in between the two sets of tracks on the Skytrain platforms? The ones with the lightning-strike warning labels on them?

Those are the so-called 'third rails', the high-voltage electrical supply for the motors that drive the train. Each 'truck', or set of wheels, has a carbon brush, which glides along under those protective aluminum covers contacting the exposed third rail. Their purpose is, as you correctly stated, to pick up power, but from the non-spinning rail, and connect that power to the motors, which drive the wheels. It is quite difficult to see the brushes from the platform, as they are behind the rail, but you can, in the right light, make out the spring-loaded brush holders that force the brush into contact with the rail.

I have no idea what design flaw in the Swampy tunnels could cause those brushes to wear so prematurely, but they are apparently failing.

Fun.

[Buchholz]

Shall we blame the Thais for Melbourne's problems with Siemens trains, too?

Train overshoots platform:

The overshoot was the worst of at least 16 such incidents involving Siemens trains this year. The train involved in each case was immediately withdrawn from service - leading to cancellations and delays because Metro has few spare trains.

Ah, I see. Siemens seems to have a prior history of messing up 16 times in other countries. Thanks.

[Sam Drucker]

From what the article (and the first reply adding detail from an unknown other publication) says I wouldn't be too quick to blame the Thais on this. Having worked for manufacturers before, I've seen situations where a problem like this is due to lack of inventory at the manufacturer level. Obviously, it appears that Siemans does not presently have any inventory of this part, otherwise it would have been on one of the numerous daily flights from Germany to Thailand. Noting that the parts won't be here until Sunday, they are either in production now or trying to source them from somewhere else.Here's just one (of many) possible scenarios:

1) Siemans (or a supplier to Siemans) makes up a big batch of these brushes; enough inventory that it is projected to last X number of years.

2) The problems with the design of the train tunnels (which must have been designed by Siemans or approved as meeting Siemans train specs) causes them to blow through these brushes way faster than Siemans anticipated;

3) Some problem occurred in producing more brushes, or somebody at Siemans was asleep that should have been managing inventory.

From what the stories read, it appears that the Thais have known about the problem and essentially have been doing what they would have been expected to do up until now: monitor and replace the parts and order replacement parts as needed.

[SAffer]

Unbelievable but wait of course it is,the same as any shop that sells electrical items . I will have that one please (check stock) solly no have.

Ok I will have the display model. Solly cannot that is only one cannot sell so we can waste our time and yours as we have none but we advertise we do at velly good price.

No spares for an important rail link oh that costs money! Don't we just love this country.

Seimens is a German company, not Thai. A new system such as this requires the company to provide spares and maintenance for a set period, example 2 years. In this case it is not the fault of SRT, and one can expect that Seimens will have penalties for loss of revenue...

[andrew55]

I bought a 1200 baht Chinese made 4" angle grinder that I've used daily for over a year and still on original brushes. Came with 2 spare sets of brushes. If they'll pick up from Ladkrabang maybe that'll tide 'em over for a few days...

Whoever is responsible has made a pathetic effort here. Gotta be more to it. Time to become answerable. Users deserve better.

I love Thailand, but sometimes I do despair.

Sabai, sabai.

[geriatrickid]

Thank you for the explanation. I get it now (or most of it anyway ) I am not technically savvy as is evident.

And if I understand the gist of this thread, there is a deficiency with either the design and/or the construction of the brush component.

Hey, at least I can follow the thread now.

I have always marveled at German engineering and technology. They are among the best. The German's, however, can be a little rigid and in Thailand, flexibility is a key factor in keeping things up and running.

I have never disagreed with you until now. In the words of Marcus Mumford, you really F**ked it up there.

I invite you to talk to some Mercedes Benz owners, particularly 1990's era models and ask how reliable their electrical systems were. Between the recalls on defective airbag systems, acceleration controls, lightbulbs that burn out once a month, corroded wire connections and short circuiting window controls and a whole range of other electrical issues, you'll get an earful. I'm one of dem angry folks, so I sympathize with the Thais here. (In fairness to Mercedes, I believe the supplier was Bosch, but its a similar scenario to the Thai airport link project.) And btw, ask the Canadian military how pleased they were with the design of their Mercedes built troop carriers - the ones that would roll over so easily and provide inadequate protection to the personnel. Germany's design and reliability is a thing of the past, much like many of our once held beliefs.

[ginjag]

Thank you for the explanation. I get it now (or most of it anyway ) I am not technically savvy as is evident.

And if I understand the gist of this thread, there is a deficiency with either the design and/or the construction of the brush component.

Hey, at least I can follow the thread now.

I have always marveled at German engineering and technology. They are among the best. The German's, however, can be a little rigid and in Thailand, flexibility is a key factor in keeping things up and running.

I have never disagreed with you until now. In the words of Marcus Mumford, you really F**ked it up there.

I invite you to talk to some Mercedes Benz owners, particularly 1990's era models and ask how reliable their electrical systems were. Between the recalls on defective airbag systems, acceleration controls, lightbulbs that burn out once a month, corroded wire connections and short circuiting window controls and a whole range of other electrical issues, you'll get an earful. I'm one of dem angry folks, so I sympathize with the Thais here. (In fairness to Mercedes, I believe the supplier was Bosch, but its a similar scenario to the Thai airport link project.) And btw, ask the Canadian military how pleased they were with the design of their Mercedes built troop carriers - the ones that would roll over so easily and provide inadequate protection to the personnel. Germany's design and reliability is a thing of the past, much like many of our once held beliefs.

I blame both parties. 1 Siemens for MAYBE not having spares available. 2 Thai for not having, or keeping stock levels up.

When a company is getting lower with stock (parts) it orders WELL in advance, if any delay in receiving you have reserves.

Who was in the office when the last parts were used, and when asked-said oh!!! we no have, 55555555555--why all the probs ???---------So our Swampy airport about to slip from 24--now 47--to what??, one of the best in the world,??maybe you get these parts from where you aquire imm/officers.