Step Children

[bifftastic]

Yeah I get that everyone has preferences but I'm still not putting 'get a checklist' on my list of things to get. I believe, and this is I suppose, my preference, that whilst there may be things you can decide in advance that you prefer, it is perhaps not helpful to have an actual list of requirements regarding personal relationships.

If you're buying a fridge, yes. Meeting another human being, not for me, no.

There would be so many experiences in my life that I would have missed if I approached life so rigidly. You can rule out so much in advance having already pre-programmed your responses like a kind of 'if/then' set of rules.

Life presents you with so many opportunities, and, at the moment of decision, it's always 'yes or no' almost moment to moment life can be like that. I feel it's not always constructive to have the 'if/then' arguments already solved.

If you plan too much, and I feel a 'checklist' is a way of making decisions before you know anything about the situation, or people involved, then you can quite easily plough through life with your own little plan in your head and miss out on so much.

My experiences have lead me to be more trusting of what some call 'intuition' I think that term maybe hints a little too much towards superstition, but I think it's my own ability to have an understanding of myself, and trust in myself. I've found that trying not to pre-judge any set of circumstances (obviously everyone does a certain amount of pre-judging) that life unfolds differently.

Just my take on it all

[mstribling]

I agree, but I understand the guys rationale.

To many of us westerners get wrapped up around the romance and forget about the business of marriage.

Edited April 2, 2011 by mstribling

[Mugg]

Three years on the most magical word in my life is "Dad" from a daughter who I consider is a gift in my life and the second best thing that has happened to me behind my thai partner.

You are describing the difference between being a "Father" and a "Dad" and quite well I might add.

[tartempion]

You would have to be absolutely heartless and in my mind slightly completely thick to turn down the role of father to your wife's child if you and your wife share a sound and loving relationship and are committed to making a family home environment, you share and have the means and the said child has been completely abandoned by their father and wants to have a "Dad".

Each to his own, but to me starting a relationship with a Thai woman having one or more children is a no-no.

Part of basic checklist before moving on with a relationship

A checklist? You've got a checklist? So, even if you really like a woman, you look at your checklist and, if there's not enough 'ticks' (do you have percentage criteria? Or do you allow your feelings to have any part in the decision making process?) You decide that she 'hasn't made the grade' and break it off?

Do you have pre-printed 'I'm sorry it's not you it's me' letters that you can just sign and post? No, that would be wrong, they're more likely to be 'it's not me it's you' my mistake.

And they say romance is dead!

Hey, romance came later, after the checklist was cleared (at 100%)

And how many Thai women (with or without children) don't have a check list you think? (money being #1 item on their list)

And where stand romance on their list???

Edited April 2, 2011 by tartempion

[mstribling]

I agree, but I understand the guys rationale.

[MSingh]

I know MUCH more Farang Fathers that DON'T look after the Wife's Kids form previous relationships etc, than those that do..

In many cases, the Kid up in the Village with Grandma isn't even really spoken about, no Pictures or anythign like that either heaven forbid, the Kid just appears to be dismissed a lot of the time from both the Fraang & the " Wife's " psyche.

Of course $$ has to get back to the Kid, but no parenting or emotional stuff gets back there from it's Birth Mother & it's now " Step Father ".

All of the Women in teh situations i mention above are of course Ex Bar Girls.

I do wonder about the mentality behind Men that willingly look after another Man's Children & why they would do that especially when they don't have their own Kids with their Wife, when they simply do not have to & when there are numerous other " Ladies " out there that don't have Kids that they could start their own Families with.

Fair play to them, but the need their bumps felt in my opinion..

I have a Guy opposite me, he's mid 60's, he's got a " Wife ", nice House, Car etc yet there are 2 x Thai Daughters from her previous Marraige, both 100% Thai, one is 7 Years Old & the other is 3 Years Old..

I have enquired as to how all of that, the initial meeting of the 2 people, the Marraige, the Car, the House, the perfect Family Environment all happened so quickly, but my question got dimissed pretty quickly by my Daughter's Mother whom i asked, & that was that..

I asked because i couldn't work out & still can't work out, why a 60 somethign Year old Man would take on 2 x young Daughters that weren't his, when he has grown up Children & even Grand Children, that are older than them ??

I can tell you why I did. The girl showed up one day, no place to go, no money and a black eye and bruises. You do what you have to do.

Absolutely, & for that i take my hat off to you.

You're a better Man than many..

[Pacificperson]

The sad thing is when the transient housemate has kids. One becomes a temporary father figure until the relationship ends. Its kinda hard on the kids, but maybe its better for the kids to have had a temporary father than no father at all.

[MSingh]

I cannot for the life of me figure out what having older children or grand children has to do with the basic want to be a father or father figure to a new partners children.

And the term other peoples children has wide variations. I know I would and do apply different levels of fatherhood to "other peoples children" with the level being set to what the involvement is in the child's life from the biological father. You would have to be absolutely heartless and in my mind slightly completely thick to turn down the role of father to your wife's child if you and your wife share a sound and loving relationship and are committed to making a family home environment, you share and have the means and the said child has been completely abandoned by their father and wants to have a "Dad".

I gradually accepted the role of father to my wifes 15 year old daughter 3 years ago. It was a choice of leaving her in Thailand with the partial guidance of my wifes thai family or bring her to live with us in a more controlled and committed (perhaps nurturing is the term) family unit with the bonus of getting a western education. Three years on the most magical word in my life is "Dad" from a daughter who I consider is a gift in my life and the second best thing that has happened to me behind my thai partner. And yes I have the joy of having the older children that you describe, and they accept and enjoy the new family unit that is us. That also includes the heart wrenching pain of losing through her choice, a beautiful falang 19 year old daughter for reasons that only she ever knew. The awesome thai girl who now lovingly calls me Dad will never replace my daughter lose, but she has opened up a shattered heart and allowed me the joy of being a dad again. And that is something I would not trade for all the gold in Thailand. I trust that may give you an insight and understanding to at least one example of the older guys who not only accept but lovingly give opportunity to other mens children be they thai or falang.

Cool, it's a lovely story & i have no doubt that if the World or even just Thailand was full of Men like you with that way of thinking, it'd be a better place undoubtedly & i mean that truly..

What about teh fact that the Guy in the example i used is over 65 ?? Would that make any difference to your way of thinking ??

What i mean is a Mna of that age taking on 2 Young Girls at such a late stage in his life ??

Can you at least see where i'm coming from ??

No disrespect but initially you said you have to be completely thick to turn down the role of................................ Then next you say you " gradually " accepted the role so it's obviously not that straight forward & i think saying " completely thick " as a tad out of order given the fact that you didn't exactly do it immediately, as you said..

Just my honest observations, no malice intended..

Edited April 2, 2011 by MSingh

[saraburioz]

I often hear about people looking down on marriages between a foreigner and thai woman of definite age differences. I feel many of these foreign men marrry a woman who has children from past relationships with Thai men. In my opinion these foreigners are quite beneficial to Thai society. Taking single mothers and marrying them and assisting in bringing up their children. I am just a little curious as to how many thaivisa members are willing to let us know that their beautiful Thai wife had children from a previous relationship and they are helping to raise them now. I want it known that I myself am single but look highly at men who do take on the task of stepfather. So please if you are a thaivisa member and a stepfather here in Thailand can you please come forward and tell us. I think but amnot sure that there is quite a large number of you and more power to you. This thread came to mind after reading the one about men over 50 not being able to marry Thai women.

Firstly, I would never want to or think I could ever raise kids that weren't my own.

Unfortunately, in my 20 years of living in Thailand, the guys I've seen that marry women with kids(especially boys)usually end up with major problems.

Why on earth choose someone with kids when there are 5 million others without?

Most of the Thai women with kids are desperate so take drastic actions to find a 'farang', whether by prostitution(Pattaya or ThaiLoveBirds.com)or other ways they wouldn't normally do. This is because all Thai women know that 'farang' are gullible9especially elderly ones) when it comes to this matter. No Thai man would marry a woman who already has kids.Few Thai men would marry a divorced woman. Old guys that re new here, don't realize this and jump into marriage.

My advice is NEVER marry a woman with kids.

Another thing i've noticed is that these farang guys usually call themselves "papa". Why the hell not Dad? And don't speak pidgin English to them - it hinders their English language development.

[473geo]

Two points here......firstly an older man is more than capable of providing a step child with a stable and balanced family environment

Secondly.......if you are so fortunate to hear the love in the voice of your child when they call you papa, it is of no consequence who the biological father is.... you are papa.......those who have no experience of this will never fully comprehend

[bifftastic]

You would have to be absolutely heartless and in my mind slightly completely thick to turn down the role of father to your wife's child if you and your wife share a sound and loving relationship and are committed to making a family home environment, you share and have the means and the said child has been completely abandoned by their father and wants to have a "Dad".

Each to his own, but to me starting a relationship with a Thai woman having one or more children is a no-no.

Part of basic checklist before moving on with a relationship

A checklist? You've got a checklist? So, even if you really like a woman, you look at your checklist and, if there's not enough 'ticks' (do you have percentage criteria? Or do you allow your feelings to have any part in the decision making process?) You decide that she 'hasn't made the grade' and break it off?

Do you have pre-printed 'I'm sorry it's not you it's me' letters that you can just sign and post? No, that would be wrong, they're more likely to be 'it's not me it's you' my mistake.

And they say romance is dead!

Hey, romance came later, after the checklist was cleared (at 100%)

And how many Thai women (with or without children) don't have a check list you think? (money being #1 item on their list)

And where stand romance on their list???

well that's good, at least the list can be put away after you've checked everything off

As for other people, including Thai women, if they have a list or not, doesn't influence my decision not to have lists like that. And some do have romance as a high priority, and are appreciative of it in others.

All the best to you

[saraburioz]

Two points here......firstly an older man is more than capable of providing a step child with a stable and balanced family environment

Secondly.......if you are so fortunate to hear the love in the voice of your child when they call you papa, it is of no consequence who the biological father is.... you are papa.......those who have no experience of this will never fully comprehend

OK, I'll never fully understand. If it is beneficial to the kids, the mother AND the step-father - great!

One question though - why papa? I met loads of guys who are called that when it's isn't the word for "father" in their own country. It isn't the word for 'father' in Thailand. Where is it the word for 'father'?

[473geo]

Two points here......firstly an older man is more than capable of providing a step child with a stable and balanced family environment

Secondly.......if you are so fortunate to hear the love in the voice of your child when they call you papa, it is of no consequence who the biological father is.... you are papa.......those who have no experience of this will never fully comprehend

OK, I'll never fully understand. If it is beneficial to the kids, the mother AND the step-father - great!

One question though - why papa? I met loads of guys who are called that when it's isn't the word for "father" in their own country. It isn't the word for 'father' in Thailand. Where is it the word for 'father'?

It is the word for Father in French....my kids are multi lingual...........

I let them use what word they are comfortable with......Father makes one sound like a priest......in my opinion.......so I go with the flow and for me Papa it is

Edit : Pere is 'father' in French but translated to Papa in the TV adverts

Edited April 2, 2011 by 473geo

[MSingh]

Two points here......firstly an older man is more than capable of providing a step child with a stable and balanced family environment

Secondly.......if you are so fortunate to hear the love in the voice of your child when they call you papa, it is of no consequence who the biological father is.... you are papa.......those who have no experience of this will never fully comprehend

OK, I'll never fully understand. If it is beneficial to the kids, the mother AND the step-father - great!

One question though - why papa? I met loads of guys who are called that when it's isn't the word for "father" in their own country. It isn't the word for 'father' in Thailand. Where is it the word for 'father'?

Poor/Paw...

[jimbeam1]

I think it would be quite difficult to find a now, single lady here, say over 25yrs old who doesn't have a child. At that age they are normally dumped for a younger model.

jb1

Thank you for that insight, I should have known, being an expert on all Thai matters

I was wondering until now, how it is possible that 80%+ of farangs I see with Thai wives are trailing a harem of children behind the lady.

You are most welcome. Now is there anything else you would like me to enlighten you on. As it would now seem that you are not an expert on all matters Thai?

Would you like to enlighten me perhaps just a little. By explaining to me what an Harem of children is?

jb1

Edited April 2, 2011 by jimbeam1

[Sakeopete]

Kids are an excuse for men to buy toys otherwise I couldn't justify the dirt bike and atv. My wife had 2 boys age 11 months and 4 y/o. The youngest never met his father and he is 10 y/o now. They come with the same stress and joy as my biological kids do but I love them both. Besides it feels good giving a child with no future a chance to succeed.

[kunash]

although i am not married yet to my girlfriend ( will be in the summer ) - she has two great children from a previous failed, abusive relationship. They are both fantastic children, and i will bring them all to the UK to live. I also hope to have my own baby with my girlfriend.

[Semper]

To the OP, yes

[bifftastic]

Two points here......firstly an older man is more than capable of providing a step child with a stable and balanced family environment

Secondly.......if you are so fortunate to hear the love in the voice of your child when they call you papa, it is of no consequence who the biological father is.... you are papa.......those who have no experience of this will never fully comprehend

OK, I'll never fully understand. If it is beneficial to the kids, the mother AND the step-father - great!

One question though - why papa? I met loads of guys who are called that when it's isn't the word for "father" in their own country. It isn't the word for 'father' in Thailand. Where is it the word for 'father'?

Many many many places

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mama_and_papa

It's to do with language acquisition, the first sounds that babies can make are 'ma' and 'pa'

Check the link out, it may surprise you, I know it did me

[tutsiwarrior]

before I met my wife she had adopted one of her nieces when she was an infant for practical purposes as her sister couldn't handle the responsibility and this was the kid that I took on when we settled down together. The sister's second child ended up staying with us later but not with 'adopted' status. The first girl was 6 y.o. when I appeared on the scene; a very jealous and possessive little girl and refused to acknowledge me...then about 3 years later in a scene right out of a soap opera (me descending the stairs, her waiting for me at the bottom with a huge 'meaningful look' in her coal black eyes, I caught the look and sussed it, sniff kiss, etc) I was accepted...this after the rest of the family had accepted me years earlier...she's 16 now and had a son recently and I am now officially 'grandpa'...step daughter and grandson still with us at 'tutsi mansions'...

then, about 8 years ago my wife took over her youngest brother's daughter as an infant (he already had 2 kids and was struggling with a doomed marriage - the wife comes home with a 'package' and I ask what's that? and she sez Touie Nouie and nothing more...she knew that I would get it eventually) who has been with us ever since and is now my daughter...she has two dads as the BiL is always around and she recognizes him as dad but she spends all of her time with me when not at school when I'm at home from work...the present love of my life and she likes my film collection...

since we've had our home over the years a number of nieces have come and gone as we have the best public school in our district close by and I have had an impact on their lives...when they are in our house we are the parents and I try to attend to their individual needs (other than food, clothing and shelter) as best as I can and there is heartbreak like any parent has;my favorite niece who showed serious academic potential (university!) budded into a beautiful (read sexy) young girl and ran off with her boyfriend and I was devastated...haven't seen her now in a year...she useta play tricks on me when she was little to get my attention...

my wife's family is very close and the cohesiveness was necessary for them to survive as they are poor agricultural folks and I knew what I was getting into when we married...

I couldn't have wished for anything more than my present arrangement except to be at home full time with the kids...

[TheFishman1]

I really wonder if a man can love a child thats not his the same way he would love is own blood.Just a real question I was read all of the above and honestly I just think it would be hard to love another mans kid the way you love your own.If everbody would be honest about it. I think it would be hard.just my 2 cents.

[zzaa09]

I really wonder if a man can love a child thats not his the same way he would love is own blood.Just a real question I was read all of the above and honestly I just think it would be hard to love another mans kid the way you love your own.If everbody would be honest about it. I think it would be hard.just my 2 cents.

Another thought I've considered regarding this thread. Hypothetically, if the subject matter were reversed and the step-children and Mother were Western, as opposed to Thai - would it be approached or discussed in a different vain?

[flying]

I really wonder if a man can love a child thats not his the same way he would love is own blood.Just a real question I was read all of the above and honestly I just think it would be hard to love another mans kid the way you love your own.If everbody would be honest about it. I think it would be hard.just my 2 cents.

I cannot speak for others but...for myself YES 100% love

My first wife had a 4 year old daughter when we met. I was 18

I raised her as I later raised my other children.

When she turned 21 & moved out I was crushed for a while.

But to this day we talk a few times a week & still get together every Christmas,& New Years Eve,+ the odd BBQ's dinners during the year....

Thanksgiving she spends with her mom

Her daughter calls me grandpa

She may have been my stepdaughter but I never referred to her as a step child.

She was, is & will always be my oldest daughter. I love her exactly the same.

Edited April 2, 2011 by flying

[barrybankruad]

I really wonder if a man can love a child thats not his the same way he would love is own blood.Just a real question I was read all of the above and honestly I just think it would be hard to love another mans kid the way you love your own.If everbody would be honest about it. I think it would be hard.just my 2 cents.

I cannot speak for others but...for myself YES 100% love

My first wife had a 4 year old daughter when we met. I was 18

I raised her as I later raised my other children.

When she turned 21 & moved out I was crushed for a while.

But to this day we talk a few times a week & still get together every Christmas,& New Years Eve,+ the odd BBQ's dinners during the year....

Thanksgiving she spends with her mom

Her daughter calls me grandpa

She may have been my stepdaughter but I never referred to her as a step child.

She was, is & will always be my oldest daughter. I love her exactly the same.

Know just how you feel. I never really wanted children, and was married for many years to a woman who did not want them either and had herself surgically sterilised. After we were divorced 22 years ago I met my Thai wife. She had never been married and had no children. We had been together for about 10 years when her younger brother suddenly died. He had 2 kids, a boy and a girl. His wife did a runner and to this day we have no idea where she is. No wwhat? The only other sister already a large family, and the grandmother was past caring for a couple of youngsters.

There was never really any question of us not caring for them both. OK I was probably a bit reluctant at first, but as time went on I realised what a great decision we had made. I got to love these children as my own, so much so in fact that my sister in law when she discovered that she had an unplanned pregnancy decided to have an abortion (she already had 6 kids).

Now I am not going to get into a discussion as to the pro's and cons of abortion, suffice it to be said that I persuaded her to have the child (a boy) whom we have taken on complete responsibility. What appears on his birth certificate is immaterial to all intents and purposes he is ours.

The result? I am the proud father of three kids, none of whom are biologically y mine (or my wife's) all of whom I love as though they were my own. Like all kids they can be a pain at times but the good times outweigh those.

By the way, they all call me 'Daddy'

[dmax]

my wife has 2 sons from previous marriage ( 11 year old twin boys ) i love them to bits like my own , great kids

Edited April 3, 2011 by dmax

[MSingh]

I really wonder if a man can love a child thats not his the same way he would love is own blood.Just a real question I was read all of the above and honestly I just think it would be hard to love another mans kid the way you love your own.If everbody would be honest about it. I think it would be hard.just my 2 cents.

Everyone's different aren't they ??

I'm from a broken Home personally & i will be forever indebted to my Step Father who is a superb Man..

Even though my Pops was around a lot too, he still had a BIG influence on my Life in a positive way..

[TheFishman1]

It was just a question not being married and having know children that I know of I was just asking for all the step dads out there it good to hear that it really makes know difference .I was just wondering .Can't blame a single guy for asking .Know offense was intended

[bonobo]

I know MUCH more Farang Fathers that DON'T look after the Wife's Kids form previous relationships etc, than those that do..

In many cases, the Kid up in the Village with Grandma isn't even really spoken about, no Pictures or anythign like that either heaven forbid, the Kid just appears to be dismissed a lot of the time from both the Fraang & the " Wife's " psyche.

Of course $ has to get back to the Kid, but no parenting or emotional stuff gets back there from it's Birth Mother & it's now " Step Father ".

All of the Women in teh situations i mention above are of course Ex Bar Girls.

I do wonder about the mentality behind Men that willingly look after another Man's Children & why they would do that especially when they don't have their own Kids with their Wife, when they simply do not have to & when there are numerous other " Ladies " out there that don't have Kids that they could start their own Families with.

Fair play to them, but the need their bumps felt in my opinion..

I have a Guy opposite me, he's mid 60's, he's got a " Wife ", nice House, Car etc yet there are 2 x Thai Daughters from her previous Marraige, both 100% Thai, one is 7 Years Old & the other is 3 Years Old..

I have enquired as to how all of that, the initial meeting of the 2 people, the Marraige, the Car, the House, the perfect Family Environment all happened so quickly, but my question got dimissed pretty quickly by my Daughter's Mother whom i asked, & that was that..

I asked because i couldn't work out & still can't work out, why a 60 somethign Year old Man would take on 2 x young Daughters that weren't his, when he has grown up Children & even Grand Children, that are older than them ??

Uh, perhaps that silly little word "love" might have something to do with it?

[MSingh]

I know MUCH more Farang Fathers that DON'T look after the Wife's Kids form previous relationships etc, than those that do..

In many cases, the Kid up in the Village with Grandma isn't even really spoken about, no Pictures or anythign like that either heaven forbid, the Kid just appears to be dismissed a lot of the time from both the Fraang & the " Wife's " psyche.

Of course $ has to get back to the Kid, but no parenting or emotional stuff gets back there from it's Birth Mother & it's now " Step Father ".

All of the Women in teh situations i mention above are of course Ex Bar Girls.

I do wonder about the mentality behind Men that willingly look after another Man's Children & why they would do that especially when they don't have their own Kids with their Wife, when they simply do not have to & when there are numerous other " Ladies " out there that don't have Kids that they could start their own Families with.

Fair play to them, but the need their bumps felt in my opinion..

I have a Guy opposite me, he's mid 60's, he's got a " Wife ", nice House, Car etc yet there are 2 x Thai Daughters from her previous Marraige, both 100% Thai, one is 7 Years Old & the other is 3 Years Old..

I have enquired as to how all of that, the initial meeting of the 2 people, the Marraige, the Car, the House, the perfect Family Environment all happened so quickly, but my question got dimissed pretty quickly by my Daughter's Mother whom i asked, & that was that..

I asked because i couldn't work out & still can't work out, why a 60 somethign Year old Man would take on 2 x young Daughters that weren't his, when he has grown up Children & even Grand Children, that are older than them ??

Uh, perhaps that silly little word "love" might have something to do with it?

Love ??

It's not a silly little word, but it is thrown around a little too often for my liking, real love anyway & especially in Thailand, a place where people " fall in love " in 24 hours..

Bear in mind also that this Man is 65 Years old & his Wife is 32, & i'm not too sure there is a whole lot of " love " there to be honest do you ??

I'd say it was a Marraige more for convenience of both parties more than the stuff Fairytales & Movies are made from so where " love " comes into where the little one's are concerned, i really don't know.

But if you wnat to call it " love ", who am i to argue..

& if the Kids are getting a better life with the Guy & better Schooling etc then happy days all round & i take my hat off to him.

Note to add : Neither Kid can speak a word of English though so i'm not sure how much influence he actually has on them or how much actual " love " as we know it can be shared, as he can't speak a word of Thai either..

[jazzbo]

Personal circumstances aside, I think it is great to want to help raise one's Thai step-children ... When someone Thai or otherwise asks me "Don't you want to have some children of your own?" I respond: Why? Is there a shortage of babies in Thailand?