Report Says 93 Red Shirts Killed In Last Year's Crackdown

[webfact]

PCI report says 93 killed in last year's crackdown

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

The People's Information Centre (PCI) released a report yesterday saying that up to 93 redshirt protesters, innocent bystanders and soldiers were killed in the AprilMay crackdown last year.

According to government reports, the death toll of last year's political unrest stood at 91.

The PCI report was released to mark the oneyear anniversary since the emergency decree was announced on April 7, 2010.

The PCI report said the 92nd victim was a redshirt protester who joined the rally on May 19 in Udon Thani province and died the next day from gunshot wounds.

The 93rd victim was another redshirt protester, who joined the demonstration on April 10 and was hit by tear gas, which later complicated a congenital disorder to which he succumbed in September.

Of the 93 victims, about 78 were civilians, six were reporters, cameramen and members of the rescue team, while nine were soldiers or police officers.

On April 10, a cameraman, 20 civilians and five soldiers were killed, while from May 14 to 19, 49 civilians, including two teens under the age of 18, five journalists and relief worker were killed. One soldier was killed from shrapnel from an explosion, while 53 of the civilians died from gunshot wounds. In addition, one protester suffocated in the CentralWorld fire, while two other victims died from unidentified causes.

Over and above the deaths, 2,800 people were injured and seven had gone missing during or since the crackdown.

"We have credible information that at least one person was forced to disappear by the state," Khwanravee Wangudom of PCI, said.

Up to 1,300 protesters were jailed for violating the emergency decree, and so far about 133 people are still in 14 prisons nationwide. PCI has discovered that four of the 133 jailed were not involved in the political unrest, while another three are migrant workers.

The centre has called for the government to release the 133 prisoners on bail after discovering that some had nothing to do with burning provincial city halls and other terrorism activities.

"They should be freed now because the government has released the redshirt core leaders. There is no reason to detain them any more," PCI member Krittiya Achavanichkul said.

The centre will release the report on its website in a couple of weeks.

-- The Nation 2011-04-08

[whybother]

Why does the title of the thread say "Report Says 93 Red Shirts Killed In Last Year's Crackdown",

when the title of the article says "PCI report says 93 killed in last year's crackdown" and the article says "up to 93 redshirt protesters, innocent bystanders and soldiers were killed".

[ChiangMaiFun]

Why does the title of the thread say "Report Says 93 Red Shirts Killed In Last Year's Crackdown",

when the title of the article says "PCI report says 93 killed in last year's crackdown" and the article says "up to 93 redshirt protesters, innocent bystanders and soldiers were killed".

Of the 93 victims, about 78 were civilians, six were reporters, cameramen and members of the rescue team, while nine were soldiers or police officers.

reporters, rescue teams...? soldiers and police? all red shirts? anyway let's never, ever have it again RIP

[pedro01]

So - who is PCI again? Who funds them?

[asiawatcher]

Why does the title of the thread say "Report Says 93 Red Shirts Killed In Last Year's Crackdown",

when the title of the article says "PCI report says 93 killed in last year's crackdown" and the article says "up to 93 redshirt protesters, innocent bystanders and soldiers were killed".

Exactly - more sensationalistic mistakes or deliberate?

[Buchholz]

So - who is PCI again? Who funds them?

Pantongtae and Pintongta Shinawatra, the son and daughter of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, launched their Internet-based 'Voice TV' on Monday at the Voice TV Building on Vibhavadi Rangsit road. November 23, 2009

http://www.thaiphotoblogs.com/index.php?blog=5&title=thaksin-s-voice-tv&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

========================================================================================================

Interestingly enough, many, if not most, of the information on the PCI website

http://www.peaceandjusticenetwork.org/?p=192

are links that lead directly to Voice TV.

*edit. Actually, it's PIC, not PCI.

It's People's Information Center and abbreviated PIC on their website.

.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Buchholz

[animatic]

Politically biased group purporting to be an independent NGO group, but clearly misstating facts willy nilly and clearly in the pocket of the Big Red Paymaster's family. More propaganda. And this will only get worse till the election is done with.

[whybother]

Politically biased group purporting to be an independent NGO group, but clearly misstating facts willy nilly and clearly in the pocket of the Big Red Paymaster's family. More propaganda. And this will only get worse till the election is done with.

That explains this then:

The 93rd victim was another redshirt protester, who joined the demonstration on April 10 and was hit by tear gas, which later complicated a congenital disorder to which he succumbed in September.

In a few years, the numbers will rise to tens of thousands, as I'm sure some other protesters will die either of natural causes or pre-protest illnesses.

I'm also having trouble with the numbers:

93 victims - 78 civilians, 6 others, 9 army/police

April 10 - 20 civilians, 1 other, 5 army.

May - 49 civilians, 6 others, 1 army.

Total - 79 civilians, 7 others, 6 army. = 92.

In addition - 1 died in the fire, and 2 died from unidentified causes.

Grand Total of 95.

[fma]

So - who is PCI again? Who funds them?

Pantongtae and Pintongta Shinawatra, the son and daughter of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, launched their Internet-based 'Voice TV' on Monday at the Voice TV Building on Vibhavadi Rangsit road. November 23, 2009

http://www.thaiphoto...1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

========================================================================================================

Interestingly enough, many, if not most, of the information on the PCI website

http://www.peaceandj...work.org/?p=192

are links that lead directly to Voice TV.

*edit. Actually, it's PIC, not PCI.

It's People's Information Center and abbreviated PIC on their website.

.

It is good that we have so many reliable government sources for what actually happened those months last year. That way we do not have to rely on 'unreliable propaganda', the way The Nation does here.

Who is funding The Nation by the way - and Bangkok Post? Pillars of society - no doubt, stretching their funds to give us neutral and investigative journalism.

PS

I like your signature describing Thaksins wealth. Would you care to elaborate on the source of this information? 400 billion Baht -- WOW! (net/gross?)

According to Forbes (2009) , Thaksin is #16 on their list for Thailand with a mere 390 million USD (12 bill THB Net) to his name. That is 1/30 of your claim of 400 billion baht. Is 400 billion before or after Abhist froze his assets in Thailand?

The Bangkok Post owners, Chirathivat family is number 3 on the list with 2900 mill USD. But then they are solid pillars of society I suppose, eager to share their resources with those less fortunate.

[phiphidon]

Politically biased group purporting to be an independent NGO group, but clearly misstating facts willy nilly and clearly in the pocket of the Big Red Paymaster's family. More propaganda. And this will only get worse till the election is done with.

No, The erroneous title was written byThe Nation. The very first line states

The People's Information Centre (PCI) released a report yesterday saying that up to 93 redshirt protesters, innocent bystanders and soldiers were killed in the April/May crackdown last year.

It could be that if The Nation can not even get the title correct their interpretation of the numbers involved based on the PCI report may also be suspect. I haven't seen the original report so cannot compare.

Proven links from the Shinawatra Clan to the PCI, or just more supposition?

[Buchholz]

So - who is PCI again? Who funds them?

Pantongtae and Pintongta Shinawatra, the son and daughter of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, launched their Internet-based 'Voice TV' on Monday at the Voice TV Building on Vibhavadi Rangsit road. November 23, 2009

http://www.thaiphoto...1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

========================================================================================================

Interestingly enough, many, if not most, of the information on the PCI website

http://www.peaceandj...work.org/?p=192

are links that lead directly to Voice TV.

*edit. Actually, it's PIC, not PCI.

It's People's Information Center and abbreviated PIC on their website.

It is good that we have so many reliable government sources for what actually happened those months last year. That way we do not have to rely on 'unreliable propaganda', the way The Nation does here.

Do you have anything to add regarding the ownership of PIC?

The Nation is reporting on what the PIC is reporting. Did the article say something erroneous in that regard?

.

[hyperdimension]

If the red shirts simply waited one measly year for the election that they were going to get anyway then those people would most likely still be alive today (unless they were going to die anyway due to other causes such as terminal illness). These people died as pawns for the greed of a corrupt, elitist, capitalist and nepotist megalomaniac dictator.

[rubl]

Over and above the deaths, 2,800 people were injured and seven had gone missing during or since the crackdown.

Just curious if there's info on the type of injuries and spread over those 2800.

The seven missing sounds alright for Thai circumstances. Like those drivers fleeing the scene. Mind you, it's nice to see the number has been brought down from an original guestimate of hundreds

Edited April 8, 2011 by rubl

[Buchholz]

Over and above the deaths, 2,800 people were injured and seven had gone missing during or since the crackdown.

Just curious if there's info on the type of injuries and spread over those 2800.

The seven missing sounds alright for Thai circumstances. Like those drivers fleeing the scene. Mind you, it's nice to see the number has been brought down from an original guestimate of hundreds

If I'm not mistaken, the Red Shirt Bomber that blew himself (and several innocent tenants) up in that blast that destroyed the Nonthaburi apartment building was reported previously as "missing" by his wife.

Hopefully, that's not indicative of other "missing" Red Shirt Bombers still out there waiting to demolish other apartment complexes.

.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Buchholz

[monkfish]

Here's another peace of information relating to the deaths.

The army fired about 100,000 live bullets including

2500 7.62mm SG-3000 sniper rounds.

The source is the newspaper we are not allowed to mention on TV.

[rubl]

Here's another peace of information relating to the deaths.

The army fired about 100,000 live bullets including

2500 7.62mm SG-3000 sniper rounds.

The source is the newspaper we are not allowed to mention on TV.

Minor correction: about 117,000 cartridges were not returned after activities concluded May, 2010. Who knows how many were actually fired and how many kept, sold, etc., etc. I'm still amazed about the shooting skills of the Thai Army. Thousands of rounds fired INTO protesters and about 78 killed in a bit more than a month. Sent some to the unrest areas in northern Africa, Arabia. Soldiers there know how to shoot and kill if they really want.

Still, nice suggestion, army fired 100,000 'live' rounds.

PS JFYI: a bullet is part of a cartridge or round.

Edited April 8, 2011 by rubl

[monkfish]

Here's another peace of information relating to the deaths.

The army fired about 100,000 live bullets including

2500 7.62mm SG-3000 sniper rounds.

The source is the newspaper we are not allowed to mention on TV.

Minor correction: about 117,000 cartridges were not returned after activities concluded May, 2010. Who knows how many were actually fired and how many kept, sold, etc., etc. I'm still amazed about the shooting skills of the Thai Army. Thousands of rounds fired INTO protesters and about 78 killed in a bit more than a month. Sent some to the unrest areas in northern Africa, Arabia. Soldiers there know how to shoot and kill if they really want.

Still, nice suggestion, army fired 100,000 'live' rounds.

PS JFYI: a bullet is part of a cartridge or round.

Not according to the story I'm reading it's 117,000 bullets and not cartridges.

2800 Injured that's 117,000 / 2800 = 41.78 bullets per person. Yep I have to say that is a bad average.

Edited April 8, 2011 by monkfish

[rubl]

Here's another peace of information relating to the deaths.

The army fired about 100,000 live bullets including

2500 7.62mm SG-3000 sniper rounds.

The source is the newspaper we are not allowed to mention on TV.

Minor correction: about 117,000 cartridges were not returned after activities concluded May, 2010. Who knows how many were actually fired and how many kept, sold, etc., etc. I'm still amazed about the shooting skills of the Thai Army. Thousands of rounds fired INTO protesters and about 78 killed in a bit more than a month. Sent some to the unrest areas in northern Africa, Arabia. Soldiers there know how to shoot and kill if they really want.

Still, nice suggestion, army fired 100,000 'live' rounds.

PS JFYI: a bullet is part of a cartridge or round.

Not according to the story I'm reading it's 117,000 bullets and not cartridges.

2800 Injured that's 100,000 / 2800 = 35.7 bullets per person. Yep I have to say that is a bad average.

You fire a round which causes a contained explosion which will propel the bullet in the direction you aim at. From wiki: "A cartridge, also called a round, packages the bullet, gunpowder and primer into a single metallic case precisely made to fit the firing chamber of a firearm.

...

In popular use, the term "bullet" is often misused to refer to complete cartridges. This is incorrect; "bullet" refers specifically to the projectile itself, not the entire cartridge." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_(firearms) )

There is no information (as far as I'm aware of) on how many of those 2800 wounded were wounded by being hit by bullets. Most (all?) of the civilians killed were hit by bullets, probably mostly by Army personel.

Any discussion on how many rounds fired (or not returned )tends to distract from why rounds were fired, why the Army had been given permission to use 'live rounds' as last defense to disperse 'unruly' protesters. It tends to ignore the lead up to April 10th and the violent actions by 'peaceful protesters' and of course those grenades flying around hitting only non-red-shirts.

Edited April 8, 2011 by rubl

[phiphidon]

Here's another peace of information relating to the deaths.

The army fired about 100,000 live bullets including

2500 7.62mm SG-3000 sniper rounds.

The source is the newspaper we are not allowed to mention on TV.

Minor correction: about 117,000 cartridges were not returned after activities concluded May, 2010. Who knows how many were actually fired and how many kept, sold, etc., etc. I'm still amazed about the shooting skills of the Thai Army. Thousands of rounds fired INTO protesters and about 78 killed in a bit more than a month. Sent some to the unrest areas in northern Africa, Arabia. Soldiers there know how to shoot and kill if they really want.

Still, nice suggestion, army fired 100,000 'live' rounds.

PS JFYI: a bullet is part of a cartridge or round.

You keep on being amazed Rubi, why, wasn't 78 enough for you?

[rubl]

You keep on being amazed Rubi, why, wasn't 78 enough for you?

One was too many already as I've said before.

I'm just complaining about '100,000 rounds fired' with the only known info being '117,000 rounds not returned'. It's like the Robert A. report with 'thousands of rounds fired INTO the protesters'. Unfortunately we have some very recent examples on what 'fired INTO protesters' really causes in death toll.

PS could you please use my correct member name 'rubl' which is not the same as 'rubi'. Mind you I must admit with some font settings it's not easy to see the difference. I'm in good mind to blame either PM Abhisit, the Army or k. Thaksin for that

Edited April 8, 2011 by rubl

[chachachacha]

Politically biased group purporting to be an independent NGO group, but clearly misstating facts willy nilly and clearly in the pocket of the Big Red Paymaster's family. More propaganda. And this will only get worse till the election is done with.

Are you a holocaust denier ? or do you just closeyour eyes to things that don't suit you. Dear me . Do you really want to argue the numbers ? I would say 1 death is to many . But then I have not been brainwashed.

[TAWP]

Why does the title of the thread say "Report Says 93 Red Shirts Killed In Last Year's Crackdown",

when the title of the article says "PCI report says 93 killed in last year's crackdown" and the article says "up to 93 redshirt protesters, innocent bystanders and soldiers were killed".

Indeed...

[TAWP]

Politically biased group purporting to be an independent NGO group, but clearly misstating facts willy nilly and clearly in the pocket of the Big Red Paymaster's family. More propaganda. And this will only get worse till the election is done with.

Are you a holocaust denier ? or do you just closeyour eyes to things that don't suit you. Dear me . Do you really want to argue the numbers ? I would say 1 death is to many . But then I have not been brainwashed.

Yes, I would say that even 1 soldier or journalist wounded or killed by the Red Shirts was enough and should have been the starting light for a proper crackdown on these hooligans.

Fair?

[yoshiwara]

Over and above the deaths, 2,800 people were injured and seven had gone missing during or since the crackdown.

Just curious if there's info on the type of injuries and spread over those 2800.

The seven missing sounds alright for Thai circumstances. Like those drivers fleeing the scene. Mind you, it's nice to see the number has been brought down from an original guestimate of hundreds

If I'm not mistaken, the Red Shirt Bomber that blew himself (and several innocent tenants) up in that blast that destroyed the Nonthaburi apartment building was reported previously as "missing" by his wife.

Hopefully, that's not indicative of other "missing" Red Shirt Bombers still out there waiting to demolish other apartment complexes.

.

One assumes that red shirt bombers come under the category of civilians. The PIC has a job to do and that is to peddle the story of the peaceful demonstration unfairly shot at etc etc.

The rest of us are very clear that the reds were necessarily cleared off the streets last year. The reds on the other hand would like to reclaim the streets back. The PIC are just another tool to assist the main agenda.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Over and above the deaths, 2,800 people were injured and seven had gone missing during or since the crackdown.

Just curious if there's info on the type of injuries and spread over those 2800.

The seven missing sounds alright for Thai circumstances. Like those drivers fleeing the scene. Mind you, it's nice to see the number has been brought down from an original guestimate of hundreds

If I'm not mistaken, the Red Shirt Bomber that blew himself (and several innocent tenants) up in that blast that destroyed the Nonthaburi apartment building was reported previously as "missing" by his wife.

Hopefully, that's not indicative of other "missing" Red Shirt Bombers still out there waiting to demolish other apartment complexes.

.

The rest of us are very clear that the reds were necessarily cleared off the streets last year.

the rest of us?

[hammered]

Is anybody going to get round to changing this very misleading or deliberately politicised thread title?

[animatic]

The rest of us are very clear that the reds were necessarily cleared off the streets last year.

the rest of us?

So you were for the indefinite take over of Rachaprasong intersection by the red shirt mob and the denial of access for all other Thais until the reds got their way?

The rights of all other Thais could be held hostage by the reds on the streets of Bangkok because 'they have a cause'?

That even if it was an illegal occupation of the streets, no one else had rights except the reds to ignore the laws and do as the wished?

Edited April 9, 2011 by animatic

[jayboy]

Politically biased group purporting to be an independent NGO group, but clearly misstating facts willy nilly and clearly in the pocket of the Big Red Paymaster's family. More propaganda. And this will only get worse till the election is done with.

So to summarise, your belief is that the PIC pretends to be independent, but is in reality being deliberately misleading and is indeed being paid by Thaksin Shinawatra's family to further the Red cause.I am wondering whether you have any evidence to back these assertions or whether, as I assume, is the usual dishonesty you spew out when awkward facts are revealed about the massacre last year.Yoshiwara makes a similar libellous allegation.How some people fear and hate the truth.

In fact I have read the PIC report and the approach is calm, methodical and devastating.The PIC is headed by Kritaya Archavanitkul of Mahidol University’s Institute for Population and Social Research, not an obscure NGO but at the heart of the Thai academic establishment.It does not make wild accusations but asks some penetrating questions chiefly related to the very slow progress of the enquiry.

Hammered is incidentally right to point out the misleading heading, the usual sloppy journalism one assumes.

[whybother]

Not according to the story I'm reading it's 117,000 bullets and not cartridges.

2800 Injured that's 117,000 / 2800 = 41.78 bullets per person. Yep I have to say that is a bad average.

Maybe those numbers should be looked at a bit more closely.

There were 2800 injured.

I have seen reports of 400 injured army/police. (but most of those reports talked about 1400 injured in total).

So that leaves 2400 injured protesters. That's about 50 bullets per person. And they lived???

I suppose the 78 could account for some of the bullets ... but still ... And the injured actually lived???

On a side note ... I wonder if the PCI (or PIC) included the woman who died at the BTS station in their statistics, or the 'coloured shirts' that were killed and injured in grenade blasts, or (since they mentioned someone who died as a result of complications to existing illnesses) the people who died as a result of being moved from Chula hospital.

[Buchholz]

In fact I have read the PIC report and the approach is calm, methodical and devastating.The PIC is headed by Kritaya Archavanitkul of Mahidol University’s Institute for Population and Social Research, not an obscure NGO but at the heart of the Thai academic establishment.It does not make wild accusations but asks some penetrating questions chiefly related to the very slow progress of the enquiry.

It might help the Thai academic establishment's credibility if they disassociated themselves from the Shinawatra propaganda machine as outlined earlier.

Hammered is incidentally right to point out the misleading heading, the usual sloppy journalism one assumes.

The journalistic headline in the OP is fine:

PCI report says 93 killed in last year's crackdown

It's the differing thread title directly above it that's in error.

.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Buchholz