Work Permit For Online Working

[SICHONSTEVE]

Practically everything is against the law here (and in many other countries) according to one interpretation or special interest or another. But it only really gets called into play if one becomes 'of interest' to the wrong people.

Firstly, avoid breaking laws as much as is humanly possible/practical, with the obvious caveat that it's pretty hard to know all of the laws and their real implications, but secondly, avoid becoming 'of interest'.

It's an old story but bears reminding that Capone wasn't convicted for murder but for tax evasion.

In other words you are saying keep your head down, blend into the surroundings (as far as is possible) and try to live the quiet life and you shouldn't have any problems as long as you abide by as many of the Thai rules as you can (those that you know - no matter how laughable they are, 'just do it', as Nike would say) and don't break the law in the mean time!!!

It helps if you are friendly towards your neighbours, smile all the time - even if in severe pain, be understanding and non-argumentative (right OR wrong) - learn to love the police (and keep them in coffee) which will keep them on your side - the same goes for Immigration (but keep them in money), learn to speak Thai or simply make some effort to learn some, you know the 'basics' of hello, how are you, I am fine thank you, can I have a large bottle of Singha beer please (very important) NB: if you don't like Singha beer then substitiute the word Singha for the one you do like - then you have enough knowledge of 'Thai life the right way' to live happily in the LOS without the constant fear of being deported nagging away inside of you!!!!.

These are the do's - the don'ts are stay away from bargirls,drugs, fights, don't upset your neighbours, the police, immigration or the mother-in-law, her husband, sons and daughters and uncles and aunts and her best friend (or 2) and 'Bobs your uncle' although in reality his name won't be Bob!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

The "system" here is incredibly hostile to any Non-Thai who does anything except eat, sleep, screw and spend money.

No, I won't have that!

You missed out boozing .....

He didn't miss anything out - he said spend money which is the same as boozing.

I live in a delightful village in Southern Thailand called Sichon in Nakhonsithammarat with my wife. The people are so friendly here to us that I couldn't be happier and do not recognise any of the things you say in your outlandish over generalisation of Thai's hate for farangs (OK. I do eat, sleep, I'm married and I do spend some money (on booze) but not in the way you intimate!!!

If you choose to exist in Pattaya, certain areas of Phuket or Bangkok then.........But don't 'tar everyone here with the same brush' because you are talking about a VERY, VERY, VERYsmall minority of people and are besmirching a VERY, VERY, VERY large majority of people with some totally unfair and untrue criticisms!!!!! You know, the kind that a 12 year old would say in the school playground to make himself look like 'the foundation of knowledge' on the subject of "the negative aspects of Thai/farang relationships" whereas in reality he is actually talking from the other end of his body from his 'other mouth".

[jazzbo]

from Post #79 It's an old story but bears reminding that Capone wasn't convicted for murder but for tax evasion.

This one has come up now on several 'Visa' Forum topics... While true, Capone was only convicted because -- as the Feds had been unable to indict or convict Capone on racketeering, murder, and other charges -- they were willing to commit an extraordinary amount of resources to prosecuting the tax evasion case. From Wikipedia

(It was not Elliot Ness but) was Frank J. Wilson who conducted the investigation into Capone's income tax violations that the government decided was more likely to end in a conviction. (IRS Agent) Wilson would spend the next three years gathering information on Capone's financial dealings including tracking down mob accountants and bookkeepers.

So don't give the US Feds or authorities elsewhere a good reason to investigate you.

Edited April 11, 2011 by jazzbo

[sausageandmash]

Well, it's all academic anyway (if you'll pardon the pun). I have had to jack in the teaching anyway, as playing nearly every night knackered me out for any other kind of day job. At least I'm 100% legal though.

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit. So there really is no point for someone who is working online. My main job is music. I definately have a work permit for that, as playing in bars and hotels without one would be stupid. However, I sometimes top-up my income by teaching a couple of private students in their homes. There is no way I could get a work permit for 2 professions and again, no point, as immigration are hardly likely to follow you to people's homes.

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

you would be surprised - I met a guy only this week who was teaching poor and disadvantaged kids in his moobaan (for free) and the Police came and knocked at his door one night - NO working free or otherwise - its ridiculous but it happens - God forbid but if you get caught you are likely out - it only requires a jealous 'somebody' to phone Immigration. I believe you are taking a huge risk - good luck though!

[SICHONSTEVE]

from Post #79 It's an old story but bears reminding that Capone wasn't convicted for murder but for tax evasion.

This one has come up now on several 'Visa' Forum topics... While true, Capone was only convicted because -- as the Feds had been unable to indict or convict Capone on racketeering, murder, and other charges -- they were willing to commit an extraordinary amount of resources to prosecuting the tax evasion case. From Wikipedia

(It was not Elliot Ness but) was Frank J. Wilson who conducted the investigation into Capone's income tax violations that the government decided was more likely to end in a conviction. (IRS Agent) Wilson would spend the next three years gathering information on Capone's financial dealings including tracking down mob accountants and bookkeepers.

So don't give the US Feds or authorities elsewhere a good reason to investigate you.

I once dropped a piece of Mentadent chewing gum (I think it was an accident but would not swear to this under oath in the court of law) in a small side soi in Krabi about 2 years 7 months ago - I can't recall the exact time or date, so everything has to be recorded as being approximate.

Do you think "THEY" were watching me!!! and can I sleep easy in my bed tonight??? I think that I might have got away with this minor indiscretion as it's been over 2.5 years now and I doubt that they would have compromised their resources for this amount of time on watching my every move. NB: Alcapone was only subjected to 3 years of constant surveillance and I think his crimes were more serious than mine and this is the reason behind my now feeling 'safe in my shoes'.

I'm much more careful now when the chewing gum is approaching it's useful life-time and has served it's purpose of moistening my mouth and I know that it is time for it to GO!!! I gingerly remove it from my mouth and look for a wide rimmed top opening bin to position it dead centre (center for the US contingent) over the top and release it by relaxing my fingers and flicking it ever so slighty in the evnt that it is sticking to them. Oh, I also make sure that I'm not being followed when I go to get my fresh supplies and sometimes walk very fast to throw them off my trail as they are invariably carrying extra weight and cannot keep up with me.

Incidentally I might find an alternative means of exercising my mouth muscles as it would be safer and not leave me open to arrest and would remove any such worries that I may hold on whether"'big brother is watching me" at all times just in case I have a similar accident in the future.

OK. I'll come clean and risk the chance that the Thai visa enforcers are not reading my every post as they would surely inform their American 'brothers' and...... I'll come straight out and admit that I menacingly tossed it right in the middle of the path where people tread and then walked to the other side of the road (about 6 feet which gives you an idea as to the size of this particular soi) and waited for the 'victim' of my evil ploy to walk right on to it and then snigger and giggle unashamedly at their feeble attempt to remove the offending gum from their shoe!!!! Ah, that is a weight off my mind now and I needn't carry this guilty secret to my grave with me!!!

Ohhhh, did I just go off topic with this?????? I apologise (ize) profusely if I did and like the chewing gum incident (as it may become known in history) I will try not to let it happen again!! But no promises - MIND YOU!!!

[bkk_mike]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

Considering the 70% off topic posts, I'd lose interest too.

The answer he is looking for is probably that technically, ys, a WP is needed for online work.

In practice however, if said work is done from home, it is unlikely to get busted, and neither is it guaranteed thai police will be interested in the case.

Just keep it quiet and say you're getting rental income from abroad.

A few things to add.

If you're working for a company abroad as an employee, then there is no actual way to apply for a work permit as you need to give the company name in Thailand that's employing you. (I know people will say to set up a company, but as your employer will still be paying you, not the company, the company is effectively a sham.)

Obviously it would be different if you were a contractor/freelance as then you could be paid through the company.

Strictly enforcing this rule on people who connect to their office network abroad would mean a lot of tourists would need a work permit. Or has none of you known a manager that checks his email when he's on holiday? I know one back in the days, who dialled in using a modem to his home country office access number from his hotel in Phuket. I don't think the company liked the phone bill, but they paid it.

I would also like to add that my company did actually look at employing me out of their office in Thailand (it's a big multinational, with BOI approval status), but HR came to the conclusion THEY couldn't get me a work permit because I wouldn't have anyone local reporting to me and I wouldn't be reporting to anyone locally. At that point, I personally gave up on trying to get a work permit.

After all...

My immigration status is fine. Non-O

If I were ever to be reported to someone and get taken to court by the dept of Labour for not having a work permit, I would have the fallback of explaining to the judge that a giant multi-national company looked into getting me a work permit by employing me via their Thai office, but found that as I actually didn't do any work for the Thai office, that I wasn't eligible to get a work permit.

I realise logic might not work in a court, but it should hopefully be seen as a mitigating factor.

Edited April 11, 2011 by bkk_mike

[jazzbo]

Well who knows? Kuhn SiSt ... but now you have told them where you live and probably stand out like a you-know-what I would be careful of where you choose to dispose of your gum.

[ChiangMaiFun]

from Post #79 It's an old story but bears reminding that Capone wasn't convicted for murder but for tax evasion.

This one has come up now on several 'Visa' Forum topics... While true, Capone was only convicted because -- as the Feds had been unable to indict or convict Capone on racketeering, murder, and other charges -- they were willing to commit an extraordinary amount of resources to prosecuting the tax evasion case. From Wikipedia

(It was not Elliot Ness but) was Frank J. Wilson who conducted the investigation into Capone's income tax violations that the government decided was more likely to end in a conviction. (IRS Agent) Wilson would spend the next three years gathering information on Capone's financial dealings including tracking down mob accountants and bookkeepers.

So don't give the US Feds or authorities elsewhere a good reason to investigate you.

I once dropped a piece of Mentadent chewing gum (I think it was an accident but would not swear to this under oath in the court of law) in a small side soi in Krabi about 2 years 7 months ago - I can't recall the exact time or date, so everything has to be recorded as being approximate.

Do you think "THEY" were watching me!!! and can I sleep easy in my bed tonight??? I think that I might have got away with this minor indiscretion as it's been over 2.5 years now and I doubt that they would have compromised their resources for this amount of time on watching my every move. NB: Alcapone was only subjected to 3 years of constant surveillance and I think his crimes were more serious than mine and this is the reason behind my now feeling 'safe in my shoes'.

I'm much more careful now when the chewing gum is approaching it's useful life-time and has served it's purpose of moistening my mouth and I know that it is time for it to GO!!! I gingerly remove it from my mouth and look for a wide rimmed top opening bin to position it dead centre (center for the US contingent) over the top and release it by relaxing my fingers and flicking it ever so slighty in the evnt that it is sticking to them. Oh, I also make sure that I'm not being followed when I go to get my fresh supplies and sometimes walk very fast to throw them off my trail as they are invariably carrying extra weight and cannot keep up with me.

Incidentally I might find an alternative means of exercising my mouth muscles as it would be safer and not leave me open to arrest and would remove any such worries that I may hold on whether"'big brother is watching me" at all times just in case I have a similar accident in the future.

OK. I'll come clean and risk the chance that the Thai visa enforcers are not reading my every post as they would surely inform their American 'brothers' and...... I'll come straight out and admit that I menacingly tossed it right in the middle of the path where people tread and then walked to the other side of the road (about 6 feet which gives you an idea as to the size of this particular soi) and waited for the 'victim' of my evil ploy to walk right on to it and then snigger and giggle unashamedly at their feeble attempt to remove the offending gum from their shoe!!!! Ah, that is a weight off my mind now and I needn't carry this guilty secret to my grave with me!!!

Ohhhh, did I just go off topic with this?????? I apologise (ize) profusely if I did and like the chewing gum incident (as it may become known in history) I will try not to let it happen again!! But no promises - MIND YOU!!!

what a...

[SICHONSTEVE]

Well who knows? Kuhn SiSt ... but now you have told them where you live and probably stand out like a you-know-what I would be careful of where you choose to dispose of your gum.

Don't worry Jazzbo !! they cannot pin anything on me (as I pinned the gooey stuff onto the bottom of someones shoe) as I have kicked this "dastardly habit" into touch as I realised the potential hazards involved with all the added trouble that that brings and decided that it was the best course of action to do so to protect myself from future litigation. It was hard going though and I had to chew things over in my mind before conquering this most unsociable of unsociable habits.

I think that they're powers of perception might have spotted where my exact location lies beforehand ie: as to where I live, as my posts are literally strewn with giveaway clues as to my whereabouts - my aviator for example - jeez, they probably know my name as well which narrows it down even further, I'm making it too easy for them with my carelessness. Of course I might be bluffing and this could be some huge deception - perhaps I live in Krabi (or was it simply just a harmless holiday with the wife, you'll never know as this is our secret) Of course, you are well versed with the history of this place with it being "the scene of the infamous gum crime" - on this, did you know that since my holiday ended 2 years and 7 months ago (approx.) the incidents of "gum crime have fallen dramatically by 100%!!! and let's be honest, it couldn't have fallen any more than this, could it, 100% guaranteed!!!

An alarming thought has just entered my mind - I have been mistakenly chewing toothpaste for the orally disadvantaged all these years and my story doesn't now hold up as it isn't "sticky" in the slightest and would have just messed up the bottom of their shoe (or cleaned it if they rubbed the soul of the shoe "up and down" on the pavement)!!! I think I meant to say mintadent but mistakenly put mentadent. It was not meant to be this way which means that I have absolutely no means of corroborating my story which is sending me mental incidentally and what's more mintadent isn't gum either, in fact no such product exists in the world, let alone Thailand (mintadent is ungoogleable - which is almost unpronouncable) !!!

I'm lost for words as that was a bit of a mouthful (minus gum mind you) and ChiangMaiFun applauds loudly from the back of the crowd as he thinks I've posted my last post as I've just declared that I've used all my words up in one fell swoop - not a chance of it buddy!!! I think I'll just leave it at that for the time being and deny everything to everyone about anything to be on the safe side!!!

Now what the heck was all that about - I've lost myself now!!! I think I need some Wrigleys ('I won't get caught (fooled) again') to help me concentrate in my future posts.

By the way ChiangMaiFun - are you a fan of the Who?????

Edited April 11, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[lemerou]

Just keep it quiet and say you're getting rental income from abroad.

Out of curiousity, wich visa are you supposed to have in this particular case (if you're under 50) ?

Maybe take an EDU one?

[TigerWan]

That's not my point. No-one has FOUR guitars in a band, even Iron Maiden have 3, and that's excessive. Sounds like an overblown version of the truth.

The Eagles had six accoustic guitars on Hotel California Unplugged

Recent issue answered in Phuket Gazette Question for freelance work permit to instruct horse riding. Working on computers is also included.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/issuesanswers/2011/article1201.html

Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief

“In general, foreigners who want to work without forming their own company can apply for a freelance work permit, but I cannot say exactly which types of work will be approved and which will not.

However, just for example, artists, artisans, singers, musicians, technicians, reporters, among others, are some of the types of workers who are usually allowed to work on a self-employed basis.

They need to file the application form and show us “relevant documents” and we will consider approval case-by-case.

If your request is approved, it would be only temporarily, until we can check your tax payment history when you renew your work permit.

For a work permit for horse riding lessons, prepare whatever relevant documents you have, such as any licenses or permits proving you own the horse, photos and details of where the horse is stabled, a plan of which customers you intend to serve, details of the location where you will conduct your lessons and so on. Come in to the office in person to talk with us.

And, if you find any foreigners working without a permit, please let us know by letter or fax.

We will investigate and prosecute any person found breaking the law.

Please call our work permit division for more information at 076-219660-1 ext13 and ask specifically for Khun Boy.

He is the officer who can offer basic information in English and Chinese.”

[Lite Beer]

As a lot of this is way off topic and the Op got his answer in post No.3

Time to close it.