Work Permit For Online Working

[WarpSpeed]

so... how many posts in this thread are about WPs for persons working online?

I am tempted to answer that one but in doing so I might be exerting energy or using knowledge so I will pass.

Good one, I guess by that broad definition we're all in violation by simply posting on this forum ..

But only if you are exerting energy or using knowledge.... So would suggest the vast majority of TV members do not exert any energy or have any knowlege...so suppose in this case it pays to be dumb and lazy...

Got me.. :cheesy: But not me .... I'd better stop using my tread mill while posting then..

Edited April 10, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This from the Ministry of Labour website:

1. Definition

"Alien" means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality; " Work " means to engage in work by

exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

So as long as you are not exerting energy or using knowledge you are OK.

Aha I get it now - they just want to make sure foreigners work in the native style!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

[manarak]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

Considering the 70% off topic posts, I'd lose interest too.

The answer he is looking for is probably that technically, ys, a WP is needed for online work.

In practice however, if said work is done from home, it is unlikely to get busted, and neither is it guaranteed thai police will be interested in the case.

Just keep it quiet and say you're getting rental income from abroad.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

Considering the 70% off topic posts, I'd lose interest too.

The answer he is looking for is probably that technically, ys, a WP is needed for online work.

In practice however, if said work is done from home, it is unlikely to get busted, and neither is it guaranteed thai police will be interested in the case.

Just keep it quiet and say you're getting rental income from abroad.

OK then, we have the definitive answer - the 'end of the thread is nigh' we can all pack up and go home now!!!! apart that is, from the off-topic brigade who can continue their meaningless drivel (me included) to their hearts content and in a wistful manner in trying to out-do each other in the battle of words that these threads sometimes degenerate into!!

[jazzbo]

Always keep a 'Kill The Terrorist' video game loaded and ready on minimize and answer the "Whatcha doin'" question with 'Sending emails to my ailing Mother back home.'

[ChiangMaiFun]

Ummmmm What was you saying about posters getting back to YOUR original thread and implying that WE should cut the off thread trivialities???? Surely, if you fail to observe YOUR OWN protocol then why should other's consider doing this???

and you continue it - thanks

[ChiangMaiFun]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

actually i don t live my whole life around this thread and went for dinner with an especially lovely girl - any objections Dude? can you just stick to the thread??? is it possible?????

[ChiangMaiFun]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

Considering the 70% off topic posts, I'd lose interest too.

The answer he is looking for is probably that technically, ys, a WP is needed for online work.

In practice however, if said work is done from home, it is unlikely to get busted, and neither is it guaranteed thai police will be interested in the case.

Just keep it quiet and say you're getting rental income from abroad.

yes I did - and went for dinner with a far more interesting 'subject' - and yes i agree - keep it quiet and hope for the best but I would not chance it personally as the one of the 4 musicians had their Facebook 'hacked' by the Police... good luck to all and keep your head down

[SICHONSTEVE]

Ummmmm What was you saying about posters getting back to YOUR original thread and implying that WE should cut the off thread trivialities???? Surely, if you fail to observe YOUR OWN protocol then why should other's consider doing this???

and you continue it - thanks

I only copied you as you gave me the inspiration to do so following you're little childish spat!!!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

Considering the 70% off topic posts, I'd lose interest too.

The answer he is looking for is probably that technically, ys, a WP is needed for online work.

In practice however, if said work is done from home, it is unlikely to get busted, and neither is it guaranteed thai police will be interested in the case.

Just keep it quiet and say you're getting rental income from abroad.

yes I did - and went for dinner with a far more interesting 'subject' - and yes i agree - keep it quiet and hope for the best but I would not chance it personally as the one of the 4 musicians had their Facebook 'hacked' by the Police... good luck to all and keep your head down

Hope the food and company were nice and that you had a pleasant meal!!

Police hackers on facebook!!!! Did the police actually own up and reveal this information - pretty high tech 007 stuff if they did, don't you think? (carelessly spilled the beans as to their devious methods on facebook maybe).

Perhaps they are monitoring this thread so we'd all better be careful wot we say about dem (the rozzers - that's sure to throw them off the scent) as there might be a knock on the door from the dreaded 'KGB' Thai facebook enforcers if someone slips up with the dreaded consequences that that might bring with it, god help them if they do and have mercy on their souls!!!!

[ChiangMaiFun]

inue it - thanks

I only copied you as you gave me the inspiration to do so following you're little childish spat!!!!

jeeze - hey you get off of my cloud... please?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Why have you gone quiet ChiangMaifun??? Have you lost interest in YOUR own thread??

Considering the 70% off topic posts, I'd lose interest too.

The answer he is looking for is probably that technically, ys, a WP is needed for online work.

In practice however, if said work is done from home, it is unlikely to get busted, and neither is it guaranteed thai police will be interested in the case.

Just keep it quiet and say you're getting rental income from abroad.

yes I did - and went for dinner with a far more interesting 'subject' - and yes i agree - keep it quiet and hope for the best but I would not chance it personally as the one of the 4 musicians had their Facebook 'hacked' by the Police... good luck to all and keep your head down

Hope the food and company were nice and that you had a pleasant meal!!

Police hackers on facebook!!!! Did the police actually own up and reveal this information - pretty high tech 007 stuff if they did, don't you think? (carelessly spilled the beans as to their devious methods on facebook maybe).

Perhaps they are monitoring this thread so we'd all better be careful wot we say about dem (the rozzers - that's sure to throw them off the scent) as there might be a knock on the door from the dreaded 'KGB' Thai facebook enforcers if someone slips up with the dreaded consequences that that might bring with it, god help them if they do and have mercy on their souls!!!!

I know you think this is very funny - go look at the thread - they DID get the info from Facebook - don't be a jerk please?

[SICHONSTEVE]

yes I did - and went for dinner with a far more interesting 'subject' - and yes i agree - keep it quiet and hope for the best but I would not chance it personally as the one of the 4 musicians had their Facebook 'hacked' by the Police... good luck to all and keep your head down

Hope the food and company were nice and that you had a pleasant meal!!

Police hackers on facebook!!!! Did the police actually own up and reveal this information - pretty high tech 007 stuff if they did, don't you think? (carelessly spilled the beans as to their devious methods on facebook maybe).

Perhaps they are monitoring this thread so we'd all better be careful wot we say about dem (the rozzers - that's sure to throw them off the scent) as there might be a knock on the door from the dreaded 'KGB' Thai facebook enforcers if someone slips up with the dreaded consequences that that might bring with it, god help them if they do and have mercy on their souls!!!!

I know you think this is very funny - go look at the thread - they DID get the info from Facebook - don't be a jerk please?

Where have I stated that I didn't believe that the police obtained some of their information from Facebook??? I was simply poking fun at THEM for using such rediculous methods for arresting musicians, harmlessly entertaining the crowds with a free jam session and then probably thinking they've played a part in solving the "crime of the century" through utilising some ingenious and revolutionary investigational techniques. What makes you think I was directing it at you???? As if I would do such a thing, honestly.

Incidentally, they're music couldn't have been that bad that they had to be put behind bars to 'shut them up' (it was FOC don't forget)!!!!! There again I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of hearing one of their renditions - so maybe they deserve all they got and get, after all!!!

Who's to say that not having WP's (I've inadvertently returned us back to the subject thread) is going to be the charge laid on them - it might be for offending people's ears through "wanton disrespect of their recreational time by playing mind numbingly awful music" and the non-work permit holding bit may actually be an excuse for forcibly removing them from the bar. I could just be right on this you know and may have rumbled them!!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

I only copied you as you gave me the inspiration to do so following you're little childish spat!!!!

jeeze - hey you get off of my cloud... please?

There you go, we both have something in common - we are both Rolling Stone fans!!!!

[Rumpole]

The "system" here is incredibly hostile to any Non-Thai who does anything except eat, sleep, screw and spend money.

No, I won't have that!

You missed out boozing .....

Edited April 10, 2011 by Rumpole

[ChiangMaiFun]

There you go, we both have something in common - we are both Rolling Stone fans!!!!

Thanks for ruining an interesting thread - MODS please close this down! thank you

[jdinasia]

LOL ..

So the answer is obviously "yes" you need a WP for online work Do people cheat the system? Another obvious "yes"

[Ijustwannateach]

Practically everything is against the law here (and in many other countries) according to one interpretation or special interest or another. But it only really gets called into play if one becomes 'of interest' to the wrong people.

Firstly, avoid breaking laws as much as is humanly possible/practical, with the obvious caveat that it's pretty hard to know all of the laws and their real implications, but secondly, avoid becoming 'of interest'.

It's an old story but bears reminding that Capone wasn't convicted for murder but for tax evasion.

[klnnurv]

A bit more detail:

* technically, anything that requires effort or thought is illegal without a work permit. obviously the law is so broad in its current wording that any sane court would throw it out. most likely its broad deliberately so that it can be used to deal with anyone who needs dealing with.

* student work permits exist. they are 6 months long and require a letter from the university. they also only allow 'trainee' positions. in many companies this means either no salary or a slave-wage salary.

* online work is not explicitly forbidden but as there is no legal framework to regulate it, it is forbidden by the blanket law mentioned above. there are several reasons for this. racism is an issue, but not a huge one. in the marxist system, work is power. if someone can do something useful, they benefit themselves in an abstract sense - experience, duty, etc. if they get paid for it, thats a practical reward, too. limiting the ability of foreigners to sustain themselves outside of 'the system' touches on national security. furthermore, there might be worry about how much 'damage' or change could be done by computer-weilding farangs if online work was allowed. so many aspects of business, society and governance are moving into cyberspace. the only way those in charge can stay in charge (for now) is by slamming on the brakes.

* practically, the line between actually working online and just messing around is very blurry. i have personally been told by someone from the ministry of labor that a website or blog is considered to be 'work' of the content is useful or beneficial in some way, and not work if it is more unprofessional or amateurish. this brings up an interesting problem: some people just are mature and professional in how they do things. its a personality trait. some people just dont do a half-assed attempt at whatever they do. which type of farang are our esteemed hosts looking to attract? the lazy seat-warmer kind or the hardworking and socially responsible kind? could this issue be a way to formally challenge the policy?

* i would guess that whenever someone is arrested for working online without a work permit, they did something else wrong first to attract attention. practically, it is next to impossible to prove that someone is actually working if there is no offline, real-world evidence, and if basic online security precautions are taken.

[sausageandmash]

I'm afraid it does apply to US Citizens. My old boss was American and he HAD to have that. Sorry to disappoint you.

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit.

I wish people would stop saying this as if it applies to all citizens across the board, it does not apply to American citizens.. It is misleading information of the worst kind..

[ChiangMaiFun]

LOL ..

So the answer is obviously "yes" you need a WP for online work Do people cheat the system? Another obvious "yes"

exactly - so now we know the answer

[ChiangMaiFun]

A bit more detail:

* technically, anything that requires effort or thought is illegal without a work permit. obviously the law is so broad in its current wording that any sane court would throw it out. most likely its broad deliberately so that it can be used to deal with anyone who needs dealing with.

* student work permits exist. they are 6 months long and require a letter from the university. they also only allow 'trainee' positions. in many companies this means either no salary or a slave-wage salary.

* online work is not explicitly forbidden but as there is no legal framework to regulate it, it is forbidden by the blanket law mentioned above. there are several reasons for this. racism is an issue, but not a huge one. in the marxist system, work is power. if someone can do something useful, they benefit themselves in an abstract sense - experience, duty, etc. if they get paid for it, thats a practical reward, too. limiting the ability of foreigners to sustain themselves outside of 'the system' touches on national security. furthermore, there might be worry about how much 'damage' or change could be done by computer-weilding farangs if online work was allowed. so many aspects of business, society and governance are moving into cyberspace. the only way those in charge can stay in charge (for now) is by slamming on the brakes.

* practically, the line between actually working online and just messing around is very blurry. i have personally been told by someone from the ministry of labor that a website or blog is considered to be 'work' of the content is useful or beneficial in some way, and not work if it is more unprofessional or amateurish. this brings up an interesting problem: some people just are mature and professional in how they do things. its a personality trait. some people just dont do a half-assed attempt at whatever they do. which type of farang are our esteemed hosts looking to attract? the lazy seat-warmer kind or the hardworking and socially responsible kind? could this issue be a way to formally challenge the policy?

* i would guess that whenever someone is arrested for working online without a work permit, they did something else wrong first to attract attention. practically, it is next to impossible to prove that someone is actually working if there is no offline, real-world evidence, and if basic online security precautions are taken.

Good post thanks for sharing - the only portion of your well thought-out post I might clarify is:

' they did something else wrong first to attract attention'

Far more of a worry is if you happen to upset someone and, spitefully, they report you to immigration (it has been known - I know of two cases personally - one a Thai reporting a farang and another of a farang reporting a farang). This is of much more concern.

[KKK]

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit.

I wish people would stop saying this as if it applies to all citizens across the board, it does not apply to American citizens.. It is misleading information of the worst kind..

Not completely misleading information....the THB 2.0 mil requirement goes away, but the 4 Thai staff per WP still applies as far as I am aware

An WHAT makes American citizens so special that they don't require the 2 million? If this is indeed true then it has to be another case of discrimination. Some need it some don't! WHY?

[keith7777]

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

All work in Thailand by outsiders need a WP, that is a good thing. If you open up one area for no WP then it starts to spiral out of control. Look at the west, all those people coming into those countries getting jobs that are needed by the natives. Man what a mess, the liberals love to see the natives deprived of jobs only when it is not theirs and they like it even more when it is manned by a non-native outsider. This is off subject, so will end with, no do not need return ticket.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit.

I wish people would stop saying this as if it applies to all citizens across the board, it does not apply to American citizens.. It is misleading information of the worst kind..

Not completely misleading information....the THB 2.0 mil requirement goes away, but the 4 Thai staff per WP still applies as far as I am aware

An WHAT makes American citizens so special that they don't require the 2 million? If this is indeed true then it has to be another case of discrimination. Some need it some don't! WHY?

bit like Americans don't need to show proof of income for a visa??? us Brits have to produce bank statements for three months - yanks just go in and swear they have the money (many don't)

[WarpSpeed]

I'm afraid it does apply to US Citizens. My old boss was American and he HAD to have that. Sorry to disappoint you.

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit.

I wish people would stop saying this as if it applies to all citizens across the board, it does not apply to American citizens.. It is misleading information of the worst kind..

I'm sorry that's incorrect, I don't know who or what your old boss did or was but if he was unaware of the Treaty of Amity (as most are) then he probably didn't open his business under the rules of the treaty or he didn't qualify for other reasons..

[WarpSpeed]

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit.

I wish people would stop saying this as if it applies to all citizens across the board, it does not apply to American citizens.. It is misleading information of the worst kind..

Not completely misleading information....the THB 2.0 mil requirement goes away, but the 4 Thai staff per WP still applies as far as I am aware

An WHAT makes American citizens so special that they don't require the 2 million? If this is indeed true then it has to be another case of discrimination. Some need it some don't! WHY?

As posted in the original message the Treaty of Amity makes us special..

[WarpSpeed]

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

All work in Thailand by outsiders need a WP, that is a good thing. If you open up one area for no WP then it starts to spiral out of control. Look at the west, all those people coming into those countries getting jobs that are needed by the natives. Man what a mess, the liberals love to see the natives deprived of jobs only when it is not theirs and they like it even more when it is manned by a non-native outsider. This is off subject, so will end with, no do not need return ticket.

Yes, the west has millions of people waiting for jobs to pick fruit and vegetables and clean up the sewers and such . They already have laws here that separate migrant workers from the locals which they are on par with for jobs instead of limiting their intellect or having low standards for workers that can't compete with a western employee they should raise their game to compete in their market or else people become complacent and having some competitors spurs on education and experience anyways not the other way around..

The average western expat here is above average intelligence (most of them anyways )and worldly experience so they'd be better competition for the locals, were I a local I'd be insulted that the government would be protectionist in that way not having confidence in the competitiveness of the Thai work force..

[phuketrichard]

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit.

I wish people would stop saying this as if it applies to all citizens across the board, it does not apply to American citizens.. It is misleading information of the worst kind..

Not completely misleading information....the THB 2.0 mil requirement goes away, but the 4 Thai staff per WP still applies as far as I am aware

An WHAT makes American citizens so special that they don't require the 2 million? If this is indeed true then it has to be another case of discrimination. Some need it some don't! WHY?

Americans need the money , they do NOT need to have any thais though and the shares in the company can be 100% farangs, as long as the majority shareholder is American