Girl In Bangkok Tollway Accident Sued For Bt36M

[jazzbo]

Don't you think that run a way crazy law suits might be part of whats wrong with the USA today?

In the USA at least, compensatory damages are differentiated from punitive damages ...

I stated a simple fact; I'll let you or someone else determine what is crazy.

[kinmaew]

Ha, justice for Thais. Imagine if it was a farang that was killed. How much money could they sue for?

They would probably be told that it was a terrible accident, and to go home ASAP.

[Greenside]

Regardless of the who did what and rights and wrongs of the accident, higher awards to those affected by traffic incidents will hopefully start to land at the doors of insurers. I'm talking mainly about the obligations commercial carriers have to their passengers at this point but if the courts started taking safety seriously and awarded meaningful payouts to those killed or injured in bus crashes for example, you can be reasonably sure that the companies hurting in the wallet would begin to take driver training and vehicle maintenance to heart. Some of this would make its way through to private premiums and bus fares no doubt, but at the end of the day the people in the street and in government would start to realise there are consequences to be (literally) paid for the mai pen rai attitude to safety that has prevailed here since the Hondas and Toyotas replaced the Ox Cart.

The costs of better driver education and enforcement are, and must be shown to be, less than the alternatives both in economic and human terms.

[chmiroau]

Greedy bastards. Even on death of their own son they just think how to make money and put another person into trouble.

I guess you would just accept the blame being deflected and accept the 30k, I guess your post is also sarcastic and you don't really mean it.

Sad but true, I agree, this is typical of a western litigations suit. While I am sorry for all of the losses, it hardly seems fair that this amount of money, an almost forbidding amount of money is sought after to in some way rectify the loss of a person.

This is once again a desperate lunge for free money because of a loss.

Hopefully this is a lot more than what the complainants are happy to settle for, as it will be the death of many peoples income and will devastate many more peoples lives as the whole family will now be in debited to this suit. How does that make the situation right?

[ManOnTheRoad]

Wow the girl look like a thai movie star now lol anyway where is she getting the money ?

[scorecard]

Her son died, God bless his soul. But was he going to give her every single baht he would be making? Would he be working forever in that same career through the 28 years? That amount may be too farfetched. I think the court would tell his mother to settle for abit more than 30K and go get a job or go give birth to another cow to milk.

Probably many factors involved in the calculation that you and everybody here are unaware of, so I don't understand why anybody wants to comment as per your first sentence.

Some words of compassion for the old lady who has lost her son might be more appropriate.

[Crushdepth]

I would just like to see a bit of justice for a change. I'm sick of seeing hiso kids walk away from their carnage.

[WhiteTrash]

About 10 years ago a friend of mine who was driving home along the Chaeng Wattana expressway fell asleep at the wheel (He was later certified drunk) and started riding the hard shoulder, a police motorbike guy had decided to take a short cut and ended up on the same hard shoulder riding his bike into the on coming traffic, he was knocked over the wall and on to the road 40ft below dying instantly. The friend of mine did not spend one day in jail and ended up paying around 250,000baht to all concerned. I went to see my friend at the Rama 9 expressway police station and nobody was showing him any ill-feeling, the overwhelming attitude was shit happens/mai bpen rai.

[samran]

"unfortunately" for the girl, people killed in the bus come from not too dissimilar backgrounds: generally well educated and likely to be inclined to stand up for their rights. Probably a few strings that they can pull as well.

This issue won't be swept under the carpet as easily as say, the Lao girl who was killed.

You are always defending Thais (and rightly so at times). But don't you agree that this is one of the biggest problems in Thailand. Getting justice when the rich and powerful are involved. I am not so sure if the 36 million is an ok sum. If they start with this then soon everyone will get sued and car insurance will increase.

I really don't understand what you are on about. But, if you are taking drugs, I'd like some of them please.

My post was really about the relative negotiating position of both parties in this case. She smashed into a bus filled with academics. Traditionally, fairly solid middle class backgrounds, and typically fairly well connected. In many middle class families, you tend to find that some go into business, others go into the civil service, and yet others go into academia. And they can all rely on each other.

The implication of 'connections' in all of this, yes from my post, I would have thought was a pretty good allusion to the fact that this case will be settled on who has the best connections in the scheme of things. Hardly a ringing endorsement of processes in Thailand.

And all I was saying was that if it was the Lao girl, this case would have been swept under the carpet. In this case, it won't be so easy for the 16-year old's family to get everything their way, as it is highly likely they'll be up against groups of people who are going to be pushing things behind the scenes themselves.

Now - the fact that I've basically stated all this can hardly be described as 'defending Thailand'. It was a mere statment of fact, which seems to have got up your nose. If this produces a precedent for people to change their behaviour, then I'd thought it would be welcome. Isn't one of the major criticisms amongst punters here is that there are no consequences for anything in Thailand?

You'd be surprised. As harsh as I can be with moronic views which frequently spouted on TV, I can be pretty harsh in my views on Thailand.

The difference is I haven't basically come to Thailand disillusioned with my life, can't cope with the place, and proceed to bag everything in sight basically with no understanding of the place via an anonymous web forum. But, if I counter a moronic argument with a statement of fact or an observation based on experience, it is somehow critiqued as being a 'defender of Thailand'.

If we need proof of the vitriol people hold for Thailand on this site, I can direct you to a small April 1 thread that George posted, and you can make up your mind.

[Wavefloater]

About 10 years ago a friend of mine who was driving home along the Chaeng Wattana expressway fell asleep at the wheel (He was later certified drunk) and started riding the hard shoulder, a police motorbike guy had decided to take a short cut and ended up on the same hard shoulder riding his bike into the on coming traffic, he was knocked over the wall and on to the road 40ft below dying instantly. The friend of mine did not spend one day in jail and ended up paying around 250,000baht to all concerned. I went to see my friend at the Rama 9 expressway police station and nobody was showing him any ill-feeling, the overwhelming attitude was shit happens/mai bpen rai.

I wonder if attitudes towards foreigners has changed much in the past 10 years and if someone in a similar situation would get off so easily now. I suspect that that situation would be handled much more severely these days.

[Kilgore Trout]

36,000,000 baht.

28 years.

1,285,000 per year.

107,000 per month.

From 50,000 per month salary?

err, people do receive pay raises and bonuses over a life time of work (govt. institutions have mandatory pay raises)

[johnhender]

36,000,000 baht.

28 years.

1,285,000 per year.

107,000 per month.

From 50,000 per month salary?

err, people do receive pay raises and bonuses over a life time of work (govt. institutions have mandatory pay raises)

i guess the big queston is how much are the other 8 families going for and will this put a dent in her families wealth ?

[bitterbatter]

Is she an unnamed driver because she is rich or because she was sixteen?

The bottom line is if she hadn't been driving that night, then these people would probably be alive. Bangkoks highways are very very difficult for even a seasoned driver to navigate safely. I wouldn't allow anyone without at least a couple years experience to even try. If she was my daughter, I would not buy her a car until I felt very confident that she can drive safely and legally. Her family is just as much to blame and getting sued for 36 million will by no means make them poor, but it is enough to make them feel it and rethink how they are raising their children.

This is not an unreasonable amount at all for the lives of 8 people lost.

Let this be a message to all the high society kids that they are not above the law.

[bitterbatter]

This girl wasn't exactly driving recklessly, and she was perhaps more confident and capable of driving on the highway than many older people who have recently acquired a licence,

I don't understand how you think that rear-ending another car at a speed great enough to kill 8 people is not reckless.

I rear-ended someone when I was sixteen (I did have a license). I was going slow enough that no-one was hurt. But I can tell you that this kind of accident usually happens for one simple reason... the driver isn't looking at the road. This is one of the first things someone driving needs to learn to do without fail. My friend recently was rear-ended in Chumpon when two pickups were racing. My friend was driving around the speed limit and the truck was going so fast it totaled his car. It is a really crappy way to get hit because you usually don't have any idea its going to happen and little chance of avoiding it.

Edited April 12, 2011 by bitterbatter

[Heng]

Anyone who has been on the roads here for a few to several years (and doesn't simply have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the well to do) will tell you that there are far more song taew, taxi, bus drivers and the masses of various truck drivers who recklessly drive and weave through traffic like they are living on borrowed credit, drive drunk (nevermind that they can't even really afford to be drinking), and operate their vehicles without a thought about proper maintenance or tire wear management/replacement. They need to pay as well... and 'living miserable lives' isn't a form of payment.

This girl at the very least was out on the roads, perhaps driving recklessly, while being able to AFFORD whatever damage she might cause.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Heng

[whybother]

err, people do receive pay raises and bonuses over a life time of work (govt. institutions have mandatory pay raises)

Which I've already responded with ...

36,000,000 baht.

28 years.

1,285,000 per year.

107,000 per month.

From 50,000 per month salary?

Maybe annual pay rises are factored in.

Do you still get paid the same salary as you were 28 years ago?

OK. I suppose it depends on how the money is paid to them, then. Not that I expect any, or that much, will be paid anyway.

edit: after some calcs ... if he were to get a 5% salary increase every year, he would only earn 35 mil baht. Are they suggesting that he gave all his salary to them?

[spectre324]

Greedy bastards. Even on death of their own son they just think how to make money and put another person into trouble.

Another person? who is "another person?" do you mean the 16 year old who Killed those people? the one drivng like an idiot? get a life! you take a life you pay for it one way or another. in the "world" she would have been charged with murder and various other offenses and paid more then 30,000 baht.

[robblok]

"unfortunately" for the girl, people killed in the bus come from not too dissimilar backgrounds: generally well educated and likely to be inclined to stand up for their rights. Probably a few strings that they can pull as well.

This issue won't be swept under the carpet as easily as say, the Lao girl who was killed.

You are always defending Thais (and rightly so at times). But don't you agree that this is one of the biggest problems in Thailand. Getting justice when the rich and powerful are involved. I am not so sure if the 36 million is an ok sum. If they start with this then soon everyone will get sued and car insurance will increase.

I really don't understand what you are on about. But, if you are taking drugs, I'd like some of them please.

My post was really about the relative negotiating position of both parties in this case. She smashed into a bus filled with academics. Traditionally, fairly solid middle class backgrounds, and typically fairly well connected. In many middle class families, you tend to find that some go into business, others go into the civil service, and yet others go into academia. And they can all rely on each other.

The implication of 'connections' in all of this, yes from my post, I would have thought was a pretty good allusion to the fact that this case will be settled on who has the best connections in the scheme of things. Hardly a ringing endorsement of processes in Thailand.

And all I was saying was that if it was the Lao girl, this case would have been swept under the carpet. In this case, it won't be so easy for the 16-year old's family to get everything their way, as it is highly likely they'll be up against groups of people who are going to be pushing things behind the scenes themselves.

Now - the fact that I've basically stated all this can hardly be described as 'defending Thailand'. It was a mere statment of fact, which seems to have got up your nose. If this produces a precedent for people to change their behaviour, then I'd thought it would be welcome. Isn't one of the major criticisms amongst punters here is that there are no consequences for anything in Thailand?

You'd be surprised. As harsh as I can be with moronic views which frequently spouted on TV, I can be pretty harsh in my views on Thailand.

The difference is I haven't basically come to Thailand disillusioned with my life, can't cope with the place, and proceed to bag everything in sight basically with no understanding of the place via an anonymous web forum. But, if I counter a moronic argument with a statement of fact or an observation based on experience, it is somehow critiqued as being a 'defender of Thailand'.

If we need proof of the vitriol people hold for Thailand on this site, I can direct you to a small April 1 thread that George posted, and you can make up your mind.

Samran

First of i might be Dutch but i am not on drugs (just like not all Thais are dumb rote learners not all Dutch are potheads). If you want drugs visit Holland don't do them here too dangerous. Second of i like your posts most of the time and was not attacking you at all. I just saw you defending Thailand a lot (and often with good reason) so i just asked if you did see its faults.

I was only asking if you agree with me that its hard to get justice here if your up against the rich and powerful. Satika anyone. That is the one big problem i have with this country justice is hard to get. Sure i pay off a cop too when i am not in the most left lane with my bike. But that is about it.

About that tread, it was so obvious that i did not even reply in that one. Come on even a 5 year old could spot that one. (says a lot about the average poster in that thread)

I am not disillusioned with my life i have a great life here but im quite harsh on many things that can change here. Do i want it to be an other Holland.. hell no. Do i want some things to be changed.. sure.

Do i complain about my own home country.. yes even harder then i complain about Thailand.

Also unlike others im not anonymous on this forum this is my real name so you can look me up and bash my skull in

Anyway i like you as a poster because your a bright guy, my problem is sometimes i don't take enough time to clearly write what i mean.

[robblok]

Anyone who has been on the roads here for a few to several years (and doesn't simply have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the well to do) will tell you that there are far more song taew, taxi, bus drivers and the masses of various truck drivers who recklessly drive and weave through traffic like they are living on borrowed credit, drive drunk (nevermind that they can't even really afford to be drinking), and operate their vehicles without a thought about proper maintenance or tire wear management/replacement. They need to pay as well... and 'living miserable lives' isn't a form of payment.

This girl at the very least was out on the roads, perhaps driving recklessly, while being able to AFFORD whatever damage she might cause.

Sure but that depends what price you place on a life. Here its 30k according to her parents.

[Heng]

Anyone who has been on the roads here for a few to several years (and doesn't simply have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the well to do) will tell you that there are far more song taew, taxi, bus drivers and the masses of various truck drivers who recklessly drive and weave through traffic like they are living on borrowed credit, drive drunk (nevermind that they can't even really afford to be drinking), and operate their vehicles without a thought about proper maintenance or tire wear management/replacement. They need to pay as well... and 'living miserable lives' isn't a form of payment.

This girl at the very least was out on the roads, perhaps driving recklessly, while being able to AFFORD whatever damage she might cause.

Sure but that depends what price you place on a life. Here its 30k according to her parents.

The market price is what it is. There isn't a universal price on anything, why would life be any different? If you walk into a multinational insurance company's Bangkok office and New York office (AIA is the easy one for those who are interested in checking), you're going to get quoted VERY different rates for your life as well.

[EnSvenskTiger]

Anyone who has been on the roads here for a few to several years (and doesn't simply have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the well to do) will tell you that there are far more song taew, taxi, bus drivers and the masses of various truck drivers who recklessly drive and weave through traffic like they are living on borrowed credit, drive drunk (nevermind that they can't even really afford to be drinking), and operate their vehicles without a thought about proper maintenance or tire wear management/replacement. They need to pay as well... and 'living miserable lives' isn't a form of payment.

This girl at the very least was out on the roads, perhaps driving recklessly, while being able to AFFORD whatever damage she might cause.

Are you kidding!? Very bad joke even in Thailand. :angry:

tiger

[Heng]

Anyone who has been on the roads here for a few to several years (and doesn't simply have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the well to do) will tell you that there are far more song taew, taxi, bus drivers and the masses of various truck drivers who recklessly drive and weave through traffic like they are living on borrowed credit, drive drunk (nevermind that they can't even really afford to be drinking), and operate their vehicles without a thought about proper maintenance or tire wear management/replacement. They need to pay as well... and 'living miserable lives' isn't a form of payment.

This girl at the very least was out on the roads, perhaps driving recklessly, while being able to AFFORD whatever damage she might cause.

Are you kidding!? Very bad joke even in Thailand. :angry:

tiger

In comparison to the myriad number of folks (a lot of them minivan drivers) who really can't afford to be out on the roads, but insist on doing so anyway. Is operating a vehicle that you can't afford to regularly change the oil, shocks, tires, brake pads, or even afford tier one insurance on, etc. any more irresponsible than driving without a license or speeding? Plenty of irresponsibility out there, but there's not much outcry/outrage/petty envy around here unless folks from the good part of town are involved.

[BOS2BKK]

36,000,000 baht.

28 years.

1,285,000 per year.

107,000 per month.

From 50,000 per month salary?

Maybe annual pay rises are factored in.

Do you still get paid the same salary as you were 28 years ago?

OK. I suppose it depends on how the money is paid to them, then. Not that I expect any, or that much, will be paid anyway.

edit: after some calcs ... if he were to get a 5% salary increase every year, he would only earn 35 mil baht. Are they suggesting that he gave all his salary to them?

Did it occur to anybody they may have factored in things like burial and legal fees, a temple donation, taxes, and with a public windfall like that in Thailand, the inevitable bribes/honorarium that will have to be payed to someone for something???

It is always vulgar trying to put a cash value on a human life, unfortunately the family wasn't given a choice. That decision was made for them by an unlicensed 16YO girl who thought the rules didn't apply to her.

[gregb]

Plenty of irresponsibility out there, but there's not much outcry/outrage/petty envy around here unless folks from the good part of town are involved.

Because folks "from the good part of town" as you say, should know better. How exactly can you punish everyone else when even those people of means act irresponsibly without any concern for their fellow Thai? You can't punish your average Somchai and at the same time allow little miss Na irresponsible to walk without spending an appropriate stint in prison. Do that and you get a street full of red protesters screaming double standards, and we all know how that goes.

People make a statement when they see an injustice so glaring that they have to respond. And when the wealthy, who would not be severely inconvenienced by actually obeying the law, do something truly horrible, people very rightly become incensed. If the wealthy were properly disciplined when they act like the rest of us don't matter, you'd quickly find that most ordinary Somchai's quickly fell into line also.

It's not that nobody cares about the poor doing the same thing, it is simply that the reality is they will follow the example of the wealthy. Being wealthy must incur social responsibility. Those who don't have it, should be rendered poor for the good of society. I firmly support this lawsuit, and hope to see many, many more.

[Heng]

unfortunately the family wasn't given a choice.

Sure they are. They can simply choose to allow their loved ones to rest in peace and put the past behind them and go on with their lives. If they (or anyone else here) ask themselves: would I STILL be going to court if the accused was a street sweeper, homeless person, etc.?... and if they honestly answer... they too might view themselves as 'vulgar.'

[Heng]

Plenty of irresponsibility out there, but there's not much outcry/outrage/petty envy around here unless folks from the good part of town are involved.

Because folks "from the good part of town" as you say, should know better. How exactly can you punish everyone else when even those people of means act irresponsibly without any concern for their fellow Thai? You can't punish your average Somchai and at the same time allow little miss Na irresponsible to walk without spending an appropriate stint in prison. Do that and you get a street full of red protesters screaming double standards, and we all know how that goes.

People make a statement when they see an injustice so glaring that they have to respond. And when the wealthy, who would not be severely inconvenienced by actually obeying the law, do something truly horrible, people very rightly become incensed. If the wealthy were properly disciplined when they act like the rest of us don't matter, you'd quickly find that most ordinary Somchai's quickly fell into line also.

It's not that nobody cares about the poor doing the same thing, it is simply that the reality is they will follow the example of the wealthy. Being wealthy must incur social responsibility. Those who don't have it, should be rendered poor for the good of society. I firmly support this lawsuit, and hope to see many, many more.

I agree for the most part. I just don't agree that the outcry is from folks wanting anything like the good of society. It seems more like folks are just angry about not having a free pass as well. You don't need the wealthy to set an example to not drive around drunk, wet, and speeding on your motorbike/taxi/or minivan... and the dangers posed by the daily irresponsibility of the poor masses (that are indeed also given free passes... not of the formal legal/connection/favor type... but of the 'it's okay, they're just hardworking poor idiots' variety) IMO is the far more prevalent and immediate concern for society.

I'm on the road quite a bit, and I can't recall a single dangerous incident or close call with an 'expensive' vehicle (given, there are plenty of wealthy folks in middle class vehicles... not unlike this 16 year old gal)... but I see all kinds of blatant moving violations from the poor masses on a daily basis. Oak and Oong Ing aren't driving on the wrong side of the road in their Ferraris, but Boonma Wandee does it everyday, and it's 'okay' with a lot of folks because she can't afford the gas to make a proper U-turn.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Heng

[gregb]

unfortunately the family wasn't given a choice.

Sure they are. They can simply choose to allow their loved ones to rest in peace and put the past behind them and go on with their lives. If they (or anyone else here) ask themselves: would I STILL be going to court if the accused was a street sweeper, homeless person, etc.?... and if they honestly answer... they too might view themselves as 'vulgar.'

What are you talking about?

Why would you take someone who is poor to court? He is already poor. What exactly would you expect to accomplish? You are just way off the mark with this ridiculous tirade of yours. The righteous indignation people are properly expressing about these wealthy criminals is not about "petty envy", it is about respect for society and rule of law.

This idea starts with the wealthy. If they have it, the poor will eventually have it also. And if the poor don't eventually get it, at least you can punish them without it degenerating into street protests.

Edited April 12, 2011 by gregb

[gregb]

I just don't agree that the outcry is from folks wanting anything like the good of society. It seems more like folks are just angry about not having a free pass as well.

Let's just say you and I disagree then and leave it at that. The reason I get so upset about this girl is not because I envy her wealth, but because I see the social disintegration that results from her attitude.

[Heng]

What are you talking about?

Why would you take someone who is poor to court? He is already poor. What exactly would you expect to accomplish?

Presumably to punish them, not to get a paycheck. Thus ideally, if that was one's goal, one would take a poor person to court as well. IMO an awful lot of folks wouldn't make that choice though. They see the paycheck at the end of the lawsuit and make it their motivation.

[Heng]

I just don't agree that the outcry is from folks wanting anything like the good of society. It seems more like folks are just angry about not having a free pass as well.

Let's just say you and I disagree then and leave it at that. The reason I get so upset about this girl is not because I envy her wealth, but because I see the social disintegration that results from her attitude.

What do we know about her attitude other than a host of folks who extrapolate what she must be like from various internet photos and gossip forums?