Flooring Costs

[Barack]

I am trying to get a handle on the flooring costs to do a build-out of my condo shell. The unit has living space (kitchen, 2 bathrooms, bedroom and living room) of abut 100 sqm. In addition, there is about 40 sqm of deck that currently has ceramic tiles. The contractor’s first proposal came in at over 600,000 baht (over 20,000USD). This included teak flooring in the bedroom and living room, the removal of the bathroom and deck tiles, and replace with new tiles. The 2nd quote was for 450,000 baht which replaced the teak in the living and bedroom with a high quality ceramic floor tile (perhaps marble).

I have been to HomePro and HomeMart (Pattaya) looking at floor tiles and they are no help. It is not clear if the prices shown are per sqm or per box. Then some tiles have a different # of pieces per box just to complicate things. I am currently thinking of tiling both the deck and living areas with the same good quality porcelain tile. Can anyone provide a current cost breakdown for material, labor and removal of the old tiles? I have researched older posts but the costs there seem quite dated. I have no problem paying for quality material and workmanship including a good profit to the contractor but also nobody likes to be taken advantage of. Thanks in advance.

[sezze]

I cannot tell you the price of removing the old tiles .

I can tell you about the pricing in Homepro and all other warehouses i know for tiles . It is the price for 1 sqm if the size is in cm ( ex. 30x30 / 40x40 etc ) and is the price for 1 box in general ( if the tiles are very large like 80x80 then the box contains more then 1sqm , the price issues will still be per sqm ) . Youdo have tiles which are in inches 12x12 and 13x13 etc . The price there is per box and in general the total size per box is also roughly 1 sqm . I know my explanation is difficult but that is why you see different things written on the pricechart .

Roughly the price is always given per sqm .

Placing tiles :

This is a very recent price in the village but as far as i've heard , it is very close to standard price around Thailand for laying tiles by pro's .

normal instal ( living room etc , no difficult edges ) 90baht per sqm .

difficult install ( bathroom , many edges ) 100 to 120 baht per sqm

very difficult install ( very small tiles , many edges ) 150baht per sqm .

Now let's count your pricing vs normal price .

You do have many many many nice tiles for 300 baht per sqm .

Count extra for Pattaya area install : instead of 90 i count the 150 baht /sqm

That is 450 per sqm , or ... 45000 baht in your case .

+ outdour another 40 sqm at 18000 baht . Together should be not more then 63000, you giving them the material . Add a couple of 1000 for cement and sand ( let's say 70k together ) . Nowhere near the 450k and 600k quoted .

Your price included teak flooring . I do not know the price of teak floor or putting it on the floor but i can imagine putting it would be roughly the same price as tiles . I've heard prices of mai deang for floor of 850 to 1300 baht per sqm . Lets say mai sak is double that price ( would be a lot ) so 1700 to 2600 per sqm .

+- 2200 per sqm x 100 sqm = 220.000 +

outdoor 40sqm tiles 20k

still nowhere near 450k .

[trogers]

Note - removing of old tiles in deck and bathroom will also mean removing an inch of old screed. This is because you will need a new screed that is waterproof and laid to slope to the drain, before placing on the tiles.

[katabeachbum]

Note - removing of old tiles in deck and bathroom will also mean removing an inch of old screed. This is because you will need a new screed that is waterproof and laid to slope to the drain, before placing on the tiles.

which comes at a cost in a condo, as it is often not allowed in elevator

all tile prices in Home Pro are displayed in sqm, and if its not a sqm pr box (like 60x60cm tiles) also displayed in box price

OP the orices you ask for are not possible to know without knowing how much to remove, access, where to bring waste and cost of new flooring

as for choise of floor, marble is rather soft and high quality porcelain tiles almost indestructable. I have marble in the bedrroms, and porcelain 60x60 in my garage. the marble is more worn in 3 years

[Barack]

Thanks for the replies so far. The quoted price included removing the old deck tiles. It sounds like I could get nice porcelain tiles installed for no more than 1,000 per sqm. If I do all areas in the same tile that would come to around 140,000 baht plus the removal costs and incidental material costs. At HomeMart I saw nice tiles in the 250-700 baht range so it appears the contractor's quote is out of line. In reading his quote again, it did include installation of wall tiles in the bathrooms but that can not account for big price differences. Since my contractor would sub-contract the tile work, and of course is entitled to a fair profit, but still that does not add up to 450,000. I will ask him for detailed break out of costs.

[rgs2001uk]

I am in the process of doing this right now.

Costs quoted as follows,

Granite tiles (60x60) works out at 1,200 per square metre, that includes everything, cost of tiles, laying tiles, waterproofing etc etc.

Teak floor upstairs (mai daeng), tounged and grooved, 6 inch width, 1 metre long, 2 cm thick, treated, cost 1,800 baht per square metre, includes laying the floor.

I see you are in Pattaya, head over to the Boothavorn showroom,

88/8 Moo 9, Tambon Nong Prue, Banglamung, Pattaya.

I would avoid Homepro,overpriced crap in my opinion.

Dont forget to order more than the actual floor space to be covered to allow for waste.

[jcon]

Barack, that price seems too high (as in double/triple price).

rgs1200uk's prices for granite are around what I have seen (I was looking for slate).

Is ''mai daeng'' the same as teak? I don't think that it is, but I could be wrong. 1800 psm sounds cheap for teak, as I've seen some crappy laminate flooring coming in at over 2k psm.

Barack, 600k would be somewhere around 4300 THB/sqm (including the deck). That's very high, IMO. 1500 psm is a good guideline for decent quality, that comes out to just a bit over 200K THB. I would change contractors as he's coming in way off the mark IMO and that's just not cool.....

edit: Isn't ''mai sak'' teak? IIRC ''mai daeng'' refers to hardwood in general.... am I wrong?

Edited April 12, 2011 by jcon

[Barack]

Let me thank everyone for your excellent responses. I have read the quote again and removal costs are included and also the costs to install wall tiles in two bathrooms. One bathroom is small (6 sqm) and the other is larger (10 sqm). The wall tiles would include the bath/shower enclosures. Given that, it appears the quote is way on the high side and I will ask for a detailed breakdown on how he arrived at his quoted price. Thaks also for the tip on Boothavornใ

Edited April 12, 2011 by Barack

[PattayaParent]

If mai daeng is translated as red wood then it is not teak, red wood is usually meranti.

[sotsira]

Let me thank everyone for your excellent responses. I have read the quote again and removal costs are included and also the costs to install wall tiles in two bathrooms. One bathroom is small (6 sqm) and the other is larger (10 sqm). The wall tiles would include the bath/shower enclosures. Given that, it appears the quote is way on the high side and I will ask for a detailed breakdown on how he arrived at his quoted price. Thaks also for the tip on Boothavornใ

Barrack,

I have had a few condo shells fitted out and when it comes to flooring you should expect to pay around 600bt per sqm for preparing the floor and fitting the tiles.

You don't need waterproofing as it's a condo, but what you must factor in is the amount of concrete depth required to bring the finished surface to the correct height.

Depending on whether you want level with the corridor floor or 2cm higher than the corridor floor.

If this overall depth is more than 5cm ( and it usually is) the correct way to do the job is to screen the floor with concrete first allow to dry and then leave approx 4cm

for the tiles to be laid at a second stage.

I've seen many cowboy builders here that try to lay the tiles in one go with around 10cm of wet concrete under them this will work but you won't get a solid floor

without air traps under the tiles which will cause you problems in the long term such as hollows that could cause the tiles to crack after any heavy load placed upon them

and also insects finding their way under the floor and in to your condo over time (mainly ants).

So if i were you i would be more concerned in how good your contractor is and not only how much it will cost as the floor cannot be rectified easily once it's laid.

As a guide you should pay about 200bt per sqm to raise the floor first with concrete and then about 400bt per sqm to have the tiles laid.

Also the second stage requires a specific type of cement that is used for bonding ceramic or porcelain tiles to the concrete and is more expensive than concrete

but many cowboys here won't use it to save material costs, you should insist that it is used when having your estimates done.

The best one on the market is made by "Weber" and the Thais call it 'Gow" translated to "Glue"

[sezze]

Mai deang is redwood , pure translation but is normally known as pyinkado and latin name is xylia xylocarpa or ironwood . Meranti , but i am not sure about this, is part of the shorea family and will be sold in Thailand as Mai nua keng or mai teng . This wood is way cheaper then mai deang ( just had my doors and windows done in mai nua keng ) . Mai deang price is a bit cheaper then mai sak which is teak .

Visit more places and learn your way about the diffenrece in price between the different things . Make a contract where you deliver all the goods and they can install at x amount per sqm . More people here have experience in wood flooring so use their guideline . Mai sak around 2000 baht per sqm , grante and marble depends a lot on the type/colour desired . Tiles somewhere between 150 and 700 per sqm , rough guideline is 300 per sqm . These prices are without cement and or glue which are roughly between 100 and 140 baht a ba of cement . Waterproof for cement is nearly free ( 120 baht i paid for 1 5l bottle which is enough for 2 to 3 m3 of cement ) . Waterproofing for natural stones ( slate , sandstone granite marble etc) is more expensive but still less then 50 baht per sqm ( i forgot how much used per bottle ) .

[Barack]

Let me thank everyone for your excellent responses. I have read the quote again and removal costs are included and also the costs to install wall tiles in two bathrooms. One bathroom is small (6 sqm) and the other is larger (10 sqm). The wall tiles would include the bath/shower enclosures. Given that, it appears the quote is way on the high side and I will ask for a detailed breakdown on how he arrived at his quoted price. Thaks also for the tip on Boothavornใ

Barrack,

I have had a few condo shells fitted out and when it comes to flooring you should expect to pay around 600bt per sqm for preparing the floor and fitting the tiles.

You don't need waterproofing as it's a condo, but what you must factor in is the amount of concrete depth required to bring the finished surface to the correct height.

Depending on whether you want level with the corridor floor or 2cm higher than the corridor floor.

If this overall depth is more than 5cm ( and it usually is) the correct way to do the job is to screen the floor with concrete first allow to dry and then leave approx 4cm

for the tiles to be laid at a second stage.

I've seen many cowboy builders here that try to lay the tiles in one go with around 10cm of wet concrete under them this will work but you won't get a solid floor

without air traps under the tiles which will cause you problems in the long term such as hollows that could cause the tiles to crack after any heavy load placed upon them

and also insects finding their way under the floor and in to your condo over time (mainly ants).

So if i were you i would be more concerned in how good your contractor is and not only how much it will cost as the floor cannot be rectified easily once it's laid.

As a guide you should pay about 200bt per sqm to raise the floor first with concrete and then about 400bt per sqm to have the tiles laid.

Also the second stage requires a specific type of cement that is used for bonding ceramic or porcelain tiles to the concrete and is more expensive than concrete

but many cowboys here won't use it to save material costs, you should insist that it is used when having your estimates done.

The best one on the market is made by "Weber" and the Thais call it 'Gow" translated to "Glue"

You have included a very important first step. The floor (or sub-floor) must be level. I was watching floor tiles being installed on the first floor commercial units at View Talay 8 and the tile setter was setting tiles in wet concrete (as you described). The cement sub-floor was rough, pitted and wavy. I will be sure my contractor does the job right!

My contractor's estimate included wall tiles in the two bathrooms. It looks like there is about 50 sqm of wall surface area. I am guessing all that is needed is adhesive and a water-proof backing (board) in the shower areas. Tile costs will be same as the floor but what about labor or any unforeseen surprises?

[sotsira]

The labour costs to place wall tiles is based on the size of the tiles you've selected as small tiles require more labour to

complete 1sqm in comparison to larger tiles and mosaic tiles even more time as they require more attention to detail.

labour costs should be between 400-600bt a sqm that includes preparing the wall first.

It's important to have the walls free of any paint and smoothness for the tiles to bond well on the walls especially in the shower.

If this isn't done correctly the tiles will eventually start falling off the walls with time. If your walls do have paint on them then the best

way is to chip away small indentations with a hammer and chisel to get a rough uneven finish before the tiles are bonded with again the

correct type of cement 'Weber or similar Gow cement" should be used.

You won't need to do any waterproof preparation as ceramic tiles that are properly grouted are already waterproof.

[sotsira]

You have included a very important first step. The floor (or sub-floor) must be level. I was watching floor tiles being installed on the first floor commercial units at View Talay 8 and the tile setter was setting tiles in wet concrete (as you described). The cement sub-floor was rough, pitted and wavy. I will be sure my contractor does the job right!

Like i said previously nearly all the tile fitters here do the same mistake by trying to set the tiles on the floor with too

much cement underneath at one stage. This is not the way a professional would do it.

Unless you tell them specifically and be there to overlook them working they will always try and cut corners to save time

by using this method.You will regret it later with many hollows and possibly cracks over time.

Once they're fitted and dried over night you can test them for hollows simply by knocking on them with your knuckles the

sound will be much higher pitched than an area that is solid.

Edited April 14, 2011 by sotsira

[Barack]

The labour costs to place wall tiles is based on the size of the tiles you've selected as small tiles require more labour to

complete 1sqm in comparison to larger tiles and mosaic tiles even more time as they require more attention to detail.

labour costs should be between 400-600bt a sqm that includes preparing the wall first.

It's important to have the walls free of any paint and smoothness for the tiles to bond well on the walls especially in the shower.

If this isn't done correctly the tiles will eventually start falling off the walls with time. If your walls do have paint on them then the best

way is to chip away small indentations with a hammer and chisel to get a rough uneven finish before the tiles are bonded with again the

correct type of cement 'Weber or similar Gow cement" should be used.

You won't need to do any waterproof preparation as ceramic tiles that are properly grouted are already waterproof.

Thanks again for your tip. This is a condo shell. The old shower tiles will be removed. The building code from my home country required "green board". If water or moisture were to seep behind the tiles then walls would become damaged (mold, fungus, dry-out if there was wood, etc.).

[sotsira]

There's no need to do anything regarding waterproofing when tiling inside a condo,

as all the walls are rendered with cement and the tiles will be sufficient for waterproofing the walls.

After some years, then you will probably need to re-grout to keep the wall waterproof as grout wears away

where water is regularly flowing like in the shower area.

[Barack]

There's no need to do anything regarding waterproofing when tiling inside a condo,

as all the walls are rendered with cement and the tiles will be sufficient for waterproofing the walls.

After some years, then you will probably need to re-grout to keep the wall waterproof as grout wears away

where water is regularly flowing like in the shower area.

Understood, Thanks!

[trogers]

There's no need to do anything regarding waterproofing when tiling inside a condo,

as all the walls are rendered with cement and the tiles will be sufficient for waterproofing the walls.

After some years, then you will probably need to re-grout to keep the wall waterproof as grout wears away

where water is regularly flowing like in the shower area.

Understood, Thanks!

I will disagree on this point as small plaster cracks are a common occurrence due to long term building settlement. If plaster can crack, so too can grout joints.

[gregb]

We just replaced our floor. We did it 4 years ago and paid 200 baht per sq. meter plus the cost of the flooring. They did a crappy job. Lived with it for a long time before we decided to do it over.

This time, we paid 350 baht per sq. meter to have a different but highly recommended contractor remove the old tiles with a hammer and chisel, prepare the floor including relaying the cement and cutting and installing new tiles. Quality of the work this time is extremely good. Doesn't take much effort to see the difference. Just walking on it you can tell there are no voids and the work is solid. So don't always take the cheapest option. Ask to see an example of their work first if you are concerned.

If you go with teak it will probably be expensive, but I would think 1000 baht/sq. meter for a less expensive wood is likely a reasonable figure. That's 600 - 700 baht for the panelling and 300 - 400 baht for the installation. If you go with ceramic tiles, I would probably plan on around 600 baht/meter assuming 250 baht per box for the tiles and 350 for the install. Linoleum could likely be done for around 400 baht per sq. meter total if you wanted something really cost effective.

[bbradsby]

Ceramic tile versus stone tile, and floors versus walls, have differing requirements for setting materials. And the local tilesetters are experts in the means & materials if you pick a true tile contractor and not a laborer trying to pass himself off as a contractor.

But in any case, tile on a concrete substrate should be set on mortar - not concrete nor cement - setting beds. For ceramic tile, this mortar is 1:5 portland cement & sand for floors; and 1:5:1/2 to 1:7:1 portland cement & sand & lime for walls. I would recommend waterproofing the system at bathroom, laundry & kitchen to avoid a nasty dispute with downstairs neighbors unless you are on the ground floor! There are many variations in tile material, detailing for waterproofing, tile/setting bed/grouting/sealant materials for the various substrates, so the devil's truly in the details. If you require specific job expertise, PM me offline.

All the best,

[katabeachbum]

There's no need to do anything regarding waterproofing when tiling inside a condo,

as all the walls are rendered with cement and the tiles will be sufficient for waterproofing the walls.

After some years, then you will probably need to re-grout to keep the wall waterproof as grout wears away

where water is regularly flowing like in the shower area.

Understood, Thanks!

I will disagree on this point as small plaster cracks are a common occurrence due to long term building settlement. If plaster can crack, so too can grout joints.

Tiles and grout is not waterproof. The surface behind it must be, or wall/floor be able to handle moisture

[Barack]

For the record, this is a View Talay shell. Here is a picture of the floor and the bathroom to be gutted.

[trogers]

For the record, this is a View Talay shell. Here is a picture of the floor and the bathroom to be gutted.

Notice the floor of the living area is just bare surface of the structure, without any finishing screed. To complete the floor of this area, your contractor will have to laid on a screed such that the surface of the finished floor should be about 2cm higher than the tiles in the bathroom, and leaving a gap below the main entrance door just enough to slip through a Bt10 coin.

[sotsira]

For the record, this is a View Talay shell. Here is a picture of the floor and the bathroom to be gutted.

Notice the floor of the living area is just bare surface of the structure, without any finishing screed. To complete the floor of this area, your contractor will have to laid on a screed such that the surface of the finished floor should be about 2cm higher than the tiles in the bathroom, and leaving a gap below the main entrance door just enough to slip through a Bt10 coin.

The height of the finished floor is down to the owners preference, but my advice is to have it 2cm higher than the granite floor in the corridor.

This will stop any dust entering from the corridor under your door and will also safeguard against any flooding entering your room from another

condo via the corridor.

You will also need to have the door bottom edge recut to accommodate the slightly higher internal floor.

If you do decide to do it this way it is nice to place a granite piece about (5cm x width of door frame) at the start of the entrance of your front door

protruding out into the corridor level with the outside edge of your door frame from there you run a nylon line touching the top of the granite piece

to the other side of the room level with the aluminium runners of your balcony doors this is your datum line of the finished floor height.

If you want to see a finished condo done this way then send me a PM as i have a viewtalay condo like yours that i can show you.

[Ashmanator]

These are obviously words of experience and knowledge. I know everyone is helping out each other here, but I had to have a little chuckle at the constant use of the word cement.

In order to further your learning and knowledge in the DIY field, you need to understand and use the correct basic terminology, otherwise it could get very confusing. Please see below, in particular the red.

bbradsby obviously has a lot of experience looking at his regular posts, he's the man to ask.

FYI

Cement

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For other uses, see Cement (disambiguation).

Lafarge cement plant in Contes, (France).

In the most general sense of the word, a cement is a binder, a substance that sets and hardens independently, and can bind other materials together. The word "cement" traces to the Romans, who used the term opus caementicium to describe masonry resembling modern concrete that was made from crushed rock with burnt lime as binder. The volcanic ash and pulverized brick additives that were added to the burnt lime to obtain a hydraulic binder were later referred to as cementum, cimentum, cäment and cement.

Cement used in construction is characterized as hydraulic or non-hydraulic. Hydraulic cements (e.g., Portland cement) harden because of hydration, chemical reactions that occur independently of the mixture's water content; they can harden even underwater or when constantly exposed to wet weather. The chemical reaction that results when the anhydrous cement powder is mixed with water produces hydrates that are not water-soluble. Non-hydraulic cements (e.g., lime and gypsum plaster) must be kept dry in order to retain their strength.

The most important use of cement is the production of mortar and concrete—the bonding of natural or artificial aggregates to form a strong building material that is durable in the face of normal environmental effects.

Concrete should not be confused with cement, because the term cement refers to the material used to bind the aggregate materials of concrete. Concrete is a combination of a cement and aggregate.