Chiangmai Post Newspaper

[philw]

Hi and just curious if any body has any ideas about this new newspaper, first edition of which came out just before Songkran.

I bought a copy at 30 baht and looks pretty good to me.

Seems to be aimed at residents rather than tourists and also seems to have some real news.

Opinions anyone ??

philw

[Ulysses G.]

I've heard that some good professional people are working on it, but have not seen it yet.

[jayinoz]

Chiangmai Mail seemed to heading downhill in recent years and I am told losing money. Thus they went to fortnightly distribution. This will make the margins in the newspaper game in Chianmai even worse. As does not seem to be enough market for one paper and near 10 mags, let alone 2 papers. As we all know most of us search for articles etc instantly on the Net these days. Whilst most in Chiangmai probably into a hardcopy read still, the under 40yo demographic simply enters what they wish on a PDA, notebook, etc.

Not a great area to be investing in IMO... Online newspapers (Yes maybe) but it must be very hard to make a buck. Wish the owners all the best however, if combined with a Reality or travel agency sort of biz, maybe a goers IMO.

Cannot see a version of this paper online to check it out, so cannot comment if it is better than Chiang Mai Mail as yet... Must be nearly final nail for the Mail unfortunately.

Cheers Jay

[Thaifan2]

Bought it today and was impressed .Its rather thin though and should expand later i guess .

[Sansai Sam]

FYI-The Chiang Mai Mail stopped printing weeks ago and is only available online now.

[Flatouthruthefog]

<br />Bought it today and was impressed .Its rather thin though and should expand later i guess .<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Agree. Just got one! It's got a way to go and the actual paper could be better quality (when the ink comes off onto your thumbs it's the fault of the paper, not the ink), plus it needs even more western interest, especially socially.

But I like what it does NOT have. NO website which would dissuade readers from paying their 30b to buy the darned thing. NO international news we can get daily on tv (and TV!) and indeed any other media. NO national Thai news we can also get everywhere. And NO wretched Pattaya news which saturated the (dead and buried) CM Mail, simply because it was a poor clone of the owners' Pattaya Mail.

NO pathetic agony aunt(eg Pattaya Mail AND Bangkok Post!), and NO bizarre, humourless so-called 'cartoon' (eg PM's 'Wombania', a bad dream in black and white).

It has a few exclusives in its first issue (that's what 'scoop' really means, Citylife!), credible advertising already and now, basically, NO direct competition at all. I wish it well and look forward to the next one. I think our little ole town needs it.

[Semper]

FYI-The Chiang Mai Mail stopped printing weeks ago and is only available online now.

For your info. The op said Chiang Mai Post. Don't know if it's the same though?

[inzman]

I am happy we have a newspaper now, I bought one. I do hope it expands to include more news on local activities and helpful articles.

[LJW]

FYI-The Chiang Mai Mail stopped printing weeks ago and is only available online now.

For your info. The op said Chiang Mai Post. Don't know if it's the same though?

His post was in reference to another post regarding the Chiang Mai Mai

[ChiangMaiFun]

we need a decent, non-fawning, newspaper - I will buy it if I can find it

[JoePai]

Fingers crossed this one survives

[searcher22]

I'm looking forward to reading the Chiang Mai Post...online. Paper-only editions are fast disappearing around the world. I haven't bought a printed newspaper in years, and I don't plan to go back to that era. But I'm sure they're already planning an online presence, they would be foolish not too. No point being the best expat newspaper in the world if your readership consists of only 50 people. If they provide quality news, I'm ready to contribute, financially and otherwise. I wish them the best!

[Ulysses G.]

I'm looking forward to reading the Chiang Mai Post...online.

Very few people are willing to pay for on-line news and it would not be easy to get advertisers for a new publication either. IMHO the only way that they can afford to have content on-line for free is if they are willing to think of themselves as a charity operation.

[chaoyang]

I have been involved with the newspaper business in one way or another since 1975.

It's a tough nut to crack in Chiang Mai. It is an inexpensive place to live, so only a relative handful of residents are willing to pay Western-level prices for things.

Yet the cost of paper and reasonable income for qualified Western staff means costs are going to be high. Paper, and of course farangs, are imported.

But the newstand price has to be low enough to attract a wide enough readership to benefit advertisers, which is where the real money is. The best long-term strategy would be a low newstand price and relatively large press run to build a readership base. Freebies could be handed out at events and in hotels, etc. Sponsorship and brand building would also help a great deal. It needs to reach a certain critical mass to work.

Absolutely crucial is content. Readers can get all the rubbish they can possibly attempt to digest at the click of a mouse, so more of that is a waste of precious trees.To get and keep good, stable, professional people you will have to pay them and provide work permits, etc. Low-ball is certain to fail, as the Chiang Mai Mail amply proves.

All of that means a rational supply of capital for at least a year or perhaps two,

To searcher 22: Just stick to the defunct, yet still online, Chiang Mai Mail. You get what you pay for. It's beyond me how some people have the notion newspaper people should work for free. The NY Times finally learned its lesson and is moving toward paid content, and the newspapers that survive will inevitably have to follow suit. Almost all are bleeding red ink and cannot continue to support the very thing -- free internet content -- that is killing them off.

In general the real barrier in Chiang Mai is the low numbers of year-round readers. Newspapers are very much dependent on economies of scale, so just a few thousand copies a week won't work. And you need to generate good revenue to pay the reporters to get out there and get some fresh local news. It's crying for coverage -- the stories are all over the place in Chiang Mai.

I was involved with some folks who took a hard look at a weekly in Chiang Mai back in the '90s. In the end the Thailand-based foreign backers began to low-ball the thing, cutting corners and foregoing even the most basic level of quality as is the habit in Thailand, so I gave it pass. About a year later the Chiang Mai Mail arrived on the scene, used that shoestring approach, and you all know what the result was.

I certainly wish the Chiang Mai Post all the best.

[NancyL]

Good observations from Chaoyang.

I would add that one of the shortcomings of the Chiang Mai Mail was that they didn't have an advertising sales staff that hustled. They didn't even have a native English speaker on their sales staff, yet many of their advertising clients are would have beenbusinesses with western partners. The website contains no advertising. I'm not an expert, but I would think it possible to offer an on-line version that paid for itself with advertising. No need to go the route of the NY Times and Wall Streeet Journal and put up a paywall. That would merely discourage people who are planning to come to Thailand in the near future for an extended-stay holiday and want to begin reading a local newspaper before they arrive. I think you could obtain a year-round readership with a good website. Just look at how often IanForbes posts on this forum when he's in the beautiful environs of Canada!

[chaoyang]

An online only version would certainly eliminate the huge cost of paper and printing. I'm a print guy, so I don't know the details of online revenue, but I believe you need fairly massive volumes to generate any real revenues. Again, that would require good content to get people on the site.

Thaivisa.com here appears to be doing very well, but it's getting an enormous amount of traffic -- and mostly free content -- from we bored foreigners who entertain ourselves, get information and break up the isolation by posting online. It sure looks like a good business model, but then it is also very professionally run. As it continues to grow, perhaps Thaivisa would like to begin commissioning its own pieces.

As for a newspaper both in print and free online -- I have never understood how that was supposed to work. People just read the online version and the papers sit on the sales rack. It just is so much easier to log on the internet, and lazily click away. An online version with some stories and teasers about all the great really stuff in the print edition might work.

[searcher22]

Good observations from Chaoyang.

I would add that one of the shortcomings of the Chiang Mai Mail was that they didn't have an advertising sales staff that hustled. They didn't even have a native English speaker on their sales staff, yet many of their advertising clients are would have beenbusinesses with western partners. The website contains no advertising. I'm not an expert, but I would think it possible to offer an on-line version that paid for itself with advertising. No need to go the route of the NY Times and Wall Streeet Journal and put up a paywall. That would merely discourage people who are planning to come to Thailand in the near future for an extended-stay holiday and want to begin reading a local newspaper before they arrive. I think you could obtain a year-round readership with a good website. Just look at how often IanForbes posts on this forum when he's in the beautiful environs of Canada!

No need to go the route of the NY Times and Wall Streeet Journal and put up a paywall.

I agree. Besides, the NYT's new limited-access pay model WILL FAIL. The new Chiang Mai Post should be looking at the successful Huffington Post as a model, not the NYT. The HP has a small but growing core of paid journalists and a huge army of volunteer bloggers, most of whom are happy with that arrangement. The Chiang Mai Post should not only provide news, it should also encourage readers and bloggers to participate in real time, use Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, podcasts, etc.

[Mapguy]

I much appreciate the discussion so far because I, too, have been interested for a long, long time in a successful English-language "newspaper" in Chiang Mai. There are some interesting opinions and suggestions in posts above, and I think we should all appreciate the hard-nosed contributions of Khun Chaoyang.

If any local English-language newspaper ( a weekly will do for me) or local news website is to be successful, it has to have a readership base that pays. No one is going to do this as a hobby. Just ask the major daily print news media which have been awash in red ink in recent years. (Will the New York Times experiment be a success?! Stay tuned!) But then, we are only considering a weekly newspaper at best.

I think it is doable for more reasons than I can make in this first post. It just hasn't been done right yet. More on that later. Right now, i would like to pose a general question re weekly newspaper/web site, not a formal readership preference survey: A: Are you a reader who is looking for a translation into English of significant local news? B: Are you a reader who is looking for news of the English-speaking farang scene? C: Do you want both kinds of news, and how much of each?

Edited April 19, 2011 by Mapguy

[chaoyang]

<snip> The new Chiang Mai Post should be looking at the successful Huffington Post as a model, not the NYT. The HP has a small but growing core of paid journalists and a huge army of volunteer bloggers, most of whom are happy with that arrangement.

The freebie bloggers have filed a lawsuit against the Huffington Post asking for a share of the multi-million dollar sale to AOL -- in short, they feel they've been used to enrich Ms. Huffington. And even if you have free bloggers, you still need professional editors to ensure a minimum (and I stress minimum) level of English-language proficiency and accuracy.

What the fledgling CM Post needs is the support of the community at all levels. I don't live in CM any more, but if I did, I would buy it, talk it up, purchase advertising etc. In my case, because I am a professional in the field, I would likely offer to help in other ways if possible.

If you guys in Chiang Mai want a real community newspaper, you are going to need to actually make the effort to support it. Community newspapers are so important they should be viewed in the same way as other crucial services. Opinions and mouse clicks are probably not going to be enough. So help support it, especially in the fragile early stage of its inception.

Edited April 20, 2011 by chaoyang

[searcher22]

Right now, i would like to pose a general question re weekly newspaper/web site, not a formal readership preference survey: A: Are you a reader who is looking for a translation into English of significant local news? B: Are you a reader who is looking for news of the English-speaking farang scene? C: Do you want both kinds of news, and how much of each?

A: Yes. For example, the Bangkok Post's "Morning Focus" video report gives a wrap-up of what's in the Thai papers. A local Chiang Mai edition would be great.

B: Yes, this will always be essential.

C: Both kinds would be ideal, with an emphasis on news that matters to farangs.

[searcher22]

The freebie bloggers have filed a lawsuit against the Huffington Post asking for a share of the multi-million dollar sale to AOL -- in short, they feel they've been used to enrich Ms. Huffington.

Ms. Huffington offered the bloggers a free podium to make a name for themselves, with no strings attached. They failed. Now they're upset and suing Ms. Huffington.

By the way, I would also like to thank all the "freebie" workers over at Wikileaks who provided us with some real facts, facts that the mainstream media, with their crew of professional, well-paid journalists, failed to uncover.

[chaoyang]

By the way, I would also like to thank all the "freebie" workers over at Wikileaks who provided us with some real facts, facts that the mainstream media, with their crew of professional, well-paid journalists, failed to uncover.

As Julian Assange continues his "selfless" quest in fancy digs and forces himself on gullible women.

The traditional media has its faults, but for local news, it certainly is needed.

I would ask searcher22 if he would please get out to the police station and immigration and find out if there is anything to this report that more foreign musicians have been arrested. I would like you to post that for free so all I have to do it click on it, then I would like you to continue doing similar stories every day. Maybe I'll even even pay something sometimes if I feel like it -- but chances are I won't.

[searcher22]

By the way, I would also like to thank all the "freebie" workers over at Wikileaks who provided us with some real facts, facts that the mainstream media, with their crew of professional, well-paid journalists, failed to uncover.

As Julian Assange continues his "selfless" quest in fancy digs and forces himself on gullible women.

The traditional media has its faults, but for local news, it certainly is needed.

I would ask searcher22 if he would please get out to the police station and immigration and find out if there is anything to this report that more foreign musicians have been arrested. I would like you to post that for free so all I have to do it click on it, then I would like you to continue doing similar stories every day. Maybe I'll even even pay something sometimes if I feel like it -- but chances are I won't.

Khun Chaoyang, I would be more than delighted to go over and investigate that case (work permit considerations aside) along with other cases such as the Downtown Inn deaths. All for free. And I'm sure other ThaiVisa readers would too. Pretty soon, I'd have my own blog, my readership would grow, and I could start to monetize that. I probably wouldn't get rich doing it, but the personal fulfillment would be worth it, just like those who contribute to Wikipedia. It might even lead to paid work in other areas in the future.

Another option is what Ulysses alluded to...start a non-profit organization and sollicit funds to pay for the operation. Heck, we have foundations in Chiang Mai that help stray cats and three-legged dogs, surely someone will recognize the need to have a well-informed expat community as well.

I get a lot of valuable information from ThaiVisa. All for free. And ThaiVisa seems to be doing pretty good and is now looking to hire paid professional writers. The day ThaiVisa charges an access fee is the day those writers can kiss their jobs goodbye. Maybe one day, ThaiVisa will even have their own staff of paid reporters, thanks to the tens of thousands of readers like me who "freeload" information off their website.

[canopus1969]

<snip> The new Chiang Mai Post should be looking at the successful Huffington Post as a model, not the NYT. The HP has a small but growing core of paid journalists and a huge army of volunteer bloggers, most of whom are happy with that arrangement.

The freebie bloggers have filed a lawsuit against the Huffington Post asking for a share of the multi-million dollar sale to AOL -- in short, they feel they've been used to enrich Ms. Huffington. And even if you have free bloggers, you still need professional editors to ensure a minimum (and I stress minimum) level of English-language proficiency and accuracy.

What the fledgling CM Post needs is the support of the community at all levels. I don't live in CM any more, but if I did, I would buy it, talk it up, purchase advertising etc. In my case, because I am a professional in the field, I would likely offer to help in other ways if possible.

If you guys in Chiang Mai want a real community newspaper, you are going to need to actually make the effort to support it. Community newspapers are so important they should be viewed in the same way as other crucial services. Opinions and mouse clicks are probably not going to be enough. So help support it, especially in the fragile early stage of its inception.

Well said, it really is down to the residents here to support this new initiative - I wish them well and I for one will be supporting the paper

[chaoyang]

Khun Chaoyang, I would be more than delighted to go over and investigate that case (work permit considerations aside) along with other cases such as the Downtown Inn deaths. All for free. And I'm sure other ThaiVisa readers would too. Pretty soon, I'd have my own blog, my readership would grow, and I could start to monetize that. I probably wouldn't get rich doing it, but the personal fulfillment would be worth it, just like those who contribute to Wikipedia. It might even lead to paid work in other areas in the future.

Oh, good. I look forward to some finely crafted stories on those two newsworthy events. When will you have them finished?

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Where can I get a copy?

[chaoyang]

Khun Chaoyang, I would be more than delighted to go over and investigate that case (work permit considerations aside) along with other cases such as the Downtown Inn deaths. All for free. And I'm sure other ThaiVisa readers would too. Pretty soon, I'd have my own blog, my readership would grow, and I could start to monetize that. I probably wouldn't get rich doing it, but the personal fulfillment would be worth it, just like those who contribute to Wikipedia. It might even lead to paid work in other areas in the future.

Oh, good. I look forward to some finely crafted stories on those two newsworthy events. When will you have them finished?

Jeez, I forgot to mention you might indeed need a work permit, and that requires a legal enterprise with a significant amount of capital and bureaucratic approvals.

You should also be fluent in Thai and culturally savvy enough to know if the story you are getting resembles something possibly feasible. You might actually need connections at the cop shop to even talk to someone who has enough face and confidence to actually tell you anything.

They might send you from office to office in heavy traffic and searing heat. Sorry, but it's possible that you might be chasing your tail for quite a few days, weeks or months, so I hope you are a dedicated member of the free blogger society. It would be helpful as well if you had some training or talent for writing because readers find that useful.

Once the stories are finished and up on the web where I can click on them, and offer my valuable opinions in response, I will try to slide you five bucks or so occasionally. Maybe some others will do the same.

[Ulysses G.]

Where can I get a copy?

I've got an extra copy if you want to send someone by for it Mrs P. .

Edited April 20, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Cheers! Will do tomorrow if that is OK with you. And as to the gent who mentioned Citylife's 'scoop' in an earlier post. You are absolutely correct. Our 'Special Scoop' page is a paid advertorial for our clients. We normally have one page a month for this, but there is plenty of other serious content - and dare I say scoops - which are not labled as such, but are completely independent of advertising. Thanks. Pim

[Ulysses G.]

If I am not in, tell the girls that it is on the printer by my desk.