Chavalit's Resignation From Pheu Thai Could Be The Start Of A Major Party Split

[SICHONSTEVE]

4 more years of Abhisit.

5 years , isn't it ?

No!!! 4 years is right - I wish it was 10 years though.

[jdinasia]

Thaksin orders MPs to distance from red shirts

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has ordered Pheu Thai MPs not to take part in rallies organised by the red shirts

Too little, too late...

Thaksin = PTP = Red Shirts

"Thaksin = PTP = Red Shirts"

Oh dear wouldn't it be nice if life was that simple - pity some still think it is.

It is that simple. PTP accepts the redshirt leaders as PTP candidates. Thaksin phones in to PTP leadership. Thaksin phones in to UDD rallies. Thaksin tells each group what to do.

Thaksin's attempt to distance the political party PTP, from his street politics/real politik group (UDD) is clear to anyone with eyes. His phone ins to the UDD tell them how to vote (PTP) and his talks with PTP tell them how to act.

[foxyhooper]

when already his own party members start to see Thaksin's real intentions,then it can't take long anymore before the general public will also.

What country you stay?These are not the most informed voters.Most just glare at channel 7 all day.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Wow - who saw this coming? I did, and have said so repeatedly. The fracturing of PTP has begun. Bad for Thaksin, but -

GREAT FOR THAILAND

great for thailand is right, hopefully pheu thai will sink like the titanic, and take jatuporn kicking and screaming in to obscurity

Couldn't agree more if I tried!!!!

[hyperdimension]

in fact the outlook for a truly representative and democratic government seems pretty bleak - either the "Flabisit" supported by the army or a disparate bunch ne'er-do-well disaffected businessmen

I agree that full democracy will not be achieved by the upcoming election whoever wins, but what are eligible voters to do? The best thing they can do at this stage is to vote for the party that they believe are most qualified and competent in running the country. I don't think there are any other Thai politicians who can match the education, competence and integrity of Abhisit and Korn. Full democracy is a longer term goal that can be worked on at a later stage as Thai society and its people evolve.

Edited April 19, 2011 by hyperdimension

[Oberkommando]

He is clever, caring, understanding and knows what's needed to be done to right the wrongs that have pervaded this wonderful country over the past few years

See my sig line from Amnesty International about Abhisit.

He's just about to send 140,000 refugees from Burma back into harm's way <deleted>.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Oberkommando

[Robby nz]

However another news source tells that deputy party leader Plodprasop Surasawadi has declared that PT will win 265 constituancy seats including 16 to 18 in BKK thereby being to form a one party Govt.

He also said thay Chavalit's resignation would make no difference as he was only a list MP and that no others would follow him.

[Oberkommando]

Full democracy is a longer term goal that can be worked on at a later stage as Thai society and its people evolve.

One of the goals of the current military led coalition is to prevent that from happening.

Excellent article in Time magazine today calling for Abhisit to show some backbone and stand up to the military over the refugee issues (and there have been many stains in his jotter since he became PM).

Some people need to waken up and realise he's not the saviour he's made out to be but either entirely complicit in the whole affair or a military puppet. I know which one my money is on.

[SICHONSTEVE]

in fact the outlook for a truly representative and democratic government seems pretty bleak - either the "Flabisit" supported by the army or a disparate bunch ne'er-do-well disaffected businessmen

I agree that full democracy will not be achieved by the upcoming election whoever wins, but what are eligible voters to do? The best thing they can do at this stage is to vote for the party that they believe are most qualified and competent in running the country. I don't think there are any other Thai politicians who can match the education, competence and integrity of Abhisit and Korn. Full democracy is a longer term goal that can be worked on at a later stage as Thai society and its people evolve.

What a sensible appraisal 'hyperdimension'!!! Can't fault any of it - which is very unusual coming from me, apart from 1 thing that is - why do you say that full democracy cannot be achieved?? What exactly is full democracy?? When governments say they want full employment it doesn't actually mean that every single person in the country will get a job.

I would say full democracy is achieved when all the impartial observers and involved parties accept that corruption and any form of cheating is kept to an absolute minimum whereby it cannot influence the ballot outcome and wrongfully deny the party (or parties) charged with governing for the benefit of the peoples as a whole from taking their elected posts.

Just my interpretation I must point out!!

[stepenwolf1958]

PTP Fragments, Smaller parties are formed. Dems win the most seats. 4 more years of Abhisit.

Yes, it is a chance for Thailand to make some normal society, as Abhisit is just transitional solution but CHANCE for Thailand to become normal country.

If about your euphoria, for sure next 4 years you will have MUCH better life in Thailand than you have now.

In that next 4 years of Abhisit's ruling all will be so nice and easy for you as farang in Thailand, all will be changed for to make you feel respected. Right? Get the life, please.

[yoshiwara]

Thaksin orders MPs to distance from red shirts

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has ordered Pheu Thai MPs not to take part in rallies organised by the red shirts

Too little, too late...

Thaksin = PTP = Red Shirts

Possibly the 'Its not about Thaksin' and 'You are obsessed with Thaksin' brigade can comment on Thaksin ordering the PTP to keep its distance from the red shirts.

Would this be the same red shirts Thaksin has been bankrolling? Or maybe they are the reds from 2009 who were eventually denounced by Thaksin as fake reds?

Actually they are the reds who Thaksin hopes to keep in place as a potential force of violence when needs be........

Whatever else, the mask is coming off and Thaksin is openly ordering his party about (those who remain that is)

Edited April 19, 2011 by yoshiwara

[rubl]

Full democracy is a longer term goal that can be worked on at a later stage as Thai society and its people evolve.

One of the goals of the current military led coalition is to prevent that from happening.

Excellent article in Time magazine today calling for Abhisit to show some backbone and stand up to the military over the refugee issues (and there have been many stains in his jotter since he became PM).

Some people need to waken up and realise he's not the saviour he's made out to be but either entirely complicit in the whole affair or a military puppet. I know which one my money is on.

Still in the usual anti-government mood, I see. Some people need to wake up to realise that apart from the two, negative, given choices there may be others. Like PM Abhisit is toeing the line between various power groups and doing reasonable under circumstances. Not easy with the main opposition party being controlled by a fugitive criminal on the run

[yoshiwara]

I could be wrong, but I get the definite impression that the majority of the posts on this subject are from the Thailand branch of the British Conservative Party?

Your conservatism and ignorance of the facts regarding the coup of a democratically elected government are a couple of reasons why I say this.

The yellow shirts putsch which began all this trouble was clearly the work of the conservative elements in Thai politics and still they remain illegally in power.

No matter what... these are the facts.

The unswerving support for this "old money" status quo shown here in these posts pretty much sums it up.

I bet you wish Maggie had a Thai passport?

Thaksin's power base rests solidly on the North-Eastern landowners and supporting their hold on power through land-owning powers which are never to be challenged. A rural power base is well understood in the Tory shires. Your understanding is up the spout. Thaksin is no less and actually more corrupt and reactionary than anybody you might care to mention. Frankly without Thaksin around there would be the possibility of normalised politics and dare I say it the possibility of the creation of a Social Democratic Party. It is a shame though that the indignant Che T-shirt wearers have a short attention span. And they come and they go.

[timekeeper]

He is clever, caring, understanding and knows what's needed to be done to right the wrongs that have pervaded this wonderful country over the past few years

See my sig line from Amnesty International about Abhisit.

He's just about to send 140,000 refugees from Burma back into harm's way <deleted>.

good, i wish they would do that in England, it might be tough though as they have lost the paperwork on 75,000 asylum seekers

so no-one knows where they are to be able to evict them..........

Edited April 19, 2011 by timekeeper

[rubl]

Just worked my way through this topic. I wonder why I bothered. Mostly negative, PTP down, breaking up, Phaitanic, etc., etc. Well don't you believe so! the other newspaper just had a newsflash with deputy party leader Plodprasop Surasawadi saying to believe the PTP will win at least 265 seats in the coming elections. So, now you know it, bunch of unbelievers

[animatic]

However another news source tells that deputy party leader Plodprasop Surasawadi has declared that PT will win 265 constituancy seats including 16 to 18 in BKK thereby being to form a one party Govt.

He also said thay Chavalit's resignation would make no difference as he was only a list MP and that no others would follow him.

That's just the usual talking out his ass to keep it from sinking below the mud. So he says, NOW that the 'Party Leader' has left, no one will follow him...Ok, who was he leading before then?

Funny they used to say the brought in Chavalit because

'he brought in may powerful people and shored up the party'.

Now his leaving does nothing.

Plodprasop = Noppadom = Fartgasinmud

Edited April 19, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

However another news source tells that deputy party leader Plodprasop Surasawadi has declared that PT will win 265 constituancy seats including 16 to 18 in BKK thereby being to form a one party Govt.

He also said thay Chavalit's resignation would make no difference as he was only a list MP and that no others would follow him.

That's just the usual talking out his ass to keep it from sinking below the mud.

So he says, NOW that the 'Party Leader' has left, no one will follow him...

Ok, who was he leading before then?

Funny they used to say the brought in Chavalit because

'he brought in may powerful people and shored up the party'.

Now his leaving does nothing.

Plodprasop = Noppadom = Fartgasinmud

Someone probably still annoyed k. Chavalit didn't want to lead the 'Peoples Army' way back in February 2010.

[Arkady]

It is quite simple. Thaksin is starting to feel desperate. From his experience with Samak, he is concerned that some one like Mingkwan, if he got to be PM on the PT ticket, would get comfortable as PM and forget that he was a seat warmer for the big boss who is anxious to get back on the crapper as quickly as possible. If PT can form a government, pushing ahead with the amnesty is not going to be universally popular and brings with it the risk of serious protests by the PAD and the possibility of a coup. Beyond 30 May 2012 the 5 year ban on the other 110 TRT party executives comes to an end and, if an amnesty is delayed beyond that point, we would only be talking about an amnesty for Thaksin. A non-family PM would no doubt delay beyond that point in order to enjoy the job and he will have time to become unpopular and will give the PAD time to regroup against a more credible enemy, rather than its current stance of tilting at Cambodian windmills. Thaksin wants a family member who will blindly do his bidding and try to go for the amnesty immediately when it will have the greatest chance of success.

[anterian]

Actually I disagree with most of the jubilant members in this forum, I think this will be bad for democracy and bad for Thailand. Government is about checks and balances, government and opposition. Whilst most Thai politicians are corrupt and self seeking, at least those on opposite sides of the floor could pounce on each other's corruptions. With a single party with a large majority it can do what it likes, and it will.

A coalition is just as bad, wheeling and dealing, demanding favours, just look at Italy.

I'm sorry folks, I'd rather see the devil in opposition than no one.

I'm neither red nor yellow but if PTP goes bust I am pessimistic about Thailand's future.

[rubl]

Actually I disagree with most of the jubilant members in this forum, I think this will be bad for democracy and bad for Thailand. Government is about checks and balances, government and opposition. Whilst most Thai politicians are corrupt and self seeking, at least those on opposite sides of the floor could pounce on each other's corruptions. With a single party with a large majority it can do what it likes, and it will.

A coalition is just as bad, wheeling and dealing, demanding favours, just look at Italy.

I'm sorry folks, I'd rather see the devil in opposition than no one.

I'm neither red nor yellow but if PTP goes bust I am pessimistic about Thailand's future.

This is democracy at work, more-or-less. While I agree a single party with a majority of MP's would be bad for Thailand, that's unlikely to happen. Unlike the start of TRT with many small parties already bought BEFORE the election of 2001, now we'll have one (or two) bigger parties, a few medium and lots of small ones. Fine!

Most likely after the elections we'll see the Dem's being the largest single party, but having only about 35 - 40% of MP's. If PTP doesn't split up before they may get a similar number. If PTP splits it's unlikely PTP votes will go to Dem's. A coalition government will be the result with all the wheeling and dealing which goes with it, like in Australia, the UK, the Netherlands a.o.

Democracy, not perfect, but works for most people

[Crushdepth]

Whilst most Thai politicians are corrupt and self seeking, at least those on opposite sides of the floor could pounce on each other's corruptions

They are too busy lying about each others corruptions to actually investigate the real ones.

[animatic]

Whilst most Thai politicians are corrupt and self seeking, at least those on opposite sides of the floor could pounce on each other's corruptions

They are too busy lying about each others corruptions to actually investigate the real ones.

And rather than address solutions they only try to get the other party thrown out in one swoop.

The corruption calls are only the tools to their political ends, and not the end reasons for going after corruptions..

[stepenwolf1958]

Actually I disagree with most of the jubilant members in this forum, I think this will be bad for democracy and bad for Thailand. Government is about checks and balances, government and opposition. Whilst most Thai politicians are corrupt and self seeking, at least those on opposite sides of the floor could pounce on each other's corruptions. With a single party with a large majority it can do what it likes, and it will.

A coalition is just as bad, wheeling and dealing, demanding favours, just look at Italy.

I'm sorry folks, I'd rather see the devil in opposition than no one.

I'm neither red nor yellow but if PTP goes bust I am pessimistic about Thailand's future.

Very very true.

Nothing will change, just names on chairs.

And as you said jubilant members here are so much about this or that side, like it is THEIR life matter.

Members will not have any benefit, whoever win but they are burning here for some side. FANTASTIC!

And for that who are on heavens here about PTP leader left the party and so happy about handsome guy will be on power next 4 or 44 years, perhaps they could say here what is it that Abhisit Government change on better?

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better? Name any.

I would like some one say that here.

[hyperdimension]

why do you say that full democracy cannot be achieved?? What exactly is full democracy??

Based on the 2010 Democracy Index, Thailand currently has a "Flawed democracy". There are 26 countries that have "Full democracy".

Full democracy cannot be achieved from this election because if the Democrats win, the power of the unelected elites will remain. If Pheu Thai wins, the power of the unelected elites may be reduced but we'll have Thaksin in power, who would run the country as dictator with his party of unqualified and incompetent thugs, criminals, terrorists and relatives.

Edited April 19, 2011 by hyperdimension

[ratcatcher]

Actually I disagree with most of the jubilant members in this forum, I think this will be bad for democracy and bad for Thailand. Government is about checks and balances, government and opposition. Whilst most Thai politicians are corrupt and self seeking, at least those on opposite sides of the floor could pounce on each other's corruptions. With a single party with a large majority it can do what it likes, and it will.

A coalition is just as bad, wheeling and dealing, demanding favours, just look at Italy.

I'm sorry folks, I'd rather see the devil in opposition than no one.

I'm neither red nor yellow but if PTP goes bust I am pessimistic about Thailand's future.

Very very true.

Nothing will change, just names on chairs.

And as you said jubilant members here are so much about this or that side, like it is THEIR life matter.

Members will not have any benefit, whoever win but they are burning here for some side. FANTASTIC!

And for that who are on heavens here about PTP leader left the party and so happy about handsome guy will be on power next 4 or 44 years, perhaps they could say here what is it that Abhisit Government change on better?

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better? Name any.

I would like some one say that here.

I think the vast majority of posters on this forum know what Thaksin was doing wrong.

Abhisit had nothing to do with stopping him.

The coupmakers AKA the Thai military stopped Thaksin. He had pissed off too many people with his arrogance and greed and the powers that be simply said" We ain't gonna take it any more. He's toast!"

The rest is presently unfolding or maybe unraveling.

As for a previous comment re the Yellow shirts taking over the airport, I always understood that they occupied the passenger areas peacefully and the decision to shut down the airport was made by AOT,under the PPP and PM Samak.

Perhaps someone can clarify?.

[SICHONSTEVE]

why do you say that full democracy cannot be achieved?? What exactly is full democracy??

Based on the 2010 Democracy Index, Thailand currently has a "Flawed democracy". There are 26 countries that have "Full democracy".

Full democracy cannot be achieved from this election because if the Democrats win, the power of the unelected elites will remain. If Pheu Thai wins, the power of the unelected elites may be reduced but we'll have Thaksin in power, who would run the country as dictator with his party of unqualified and incompetent thugs, criminals, terrorists and relatives.

I think that I have seen this table a long time ago. Interesting to see that France is on the same level as Thailand and doesn't have "full democracy" accreditation!!!! I wonder for what reason it's democracy is deemed to be flawed.

I've just read that it is because of it's semi-presidential status. Why is this different to the USA as the fact that America has a "full presidential democracy, wouldn't that make it just as flawed as France after all France has full elections like the most of Europe. Italy is there too but it's status is flawed by having Berluschoni (can't be bothered to Google his name) at the helm!!!

Edited April 19, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[stepenwolf1958]

Actually I disagree with most of the jubilant members in this forum, I think this will be bad for democracy and bad for Thailand. Government is about checks and balances, government and opposition. Whilst most Thai politicians are corrupt and self seeking, at least those on opposite sides of the floor could pounce on each other's corruptions. With a single party with a large majority it can do what it likes, and it will.

A coalition is just as bad, wheeling and dealing, demanding favours, just look at Italy.

I'm sorry folks, I'd rather see the devil in opposition than no one.

I'm neither red nor yellow but if PTP goes bust I am pessimistic about Thailand's future.

Very very true.

Nothing will change, just names on chairs.

And as you said jubilant members here are so much about this or that side, like it is THEIR life matter.

Members will not have any benefit, whoever win but they are burning here for some side. FANTASTIC!

And for that who are on heavens here about PTP leader left the party and so happy about handsome guy will be on power next 4 or 44 years, perhaps they could say here what is it that Abhisit Government change on better?

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better? Name any.

I would like some one say that here.

I think the vast majority of posters on this forum know what Thaksin was doing wrong.

Abhisit had nothing to do with stopping him.

The coupmakers AKA the Thai military stopped Thaksin. He had pissed off too many people with his arrogance and greed and the powers that be simply said" We ain't gonna take it any more. He's toast!"

The rest is presently unfolding or maybe unraveling.

As for a previous comment re the Yellow shirts taking over the airport, I always understood that they occupied the passenger areas peacefully and the decision to shut down the airport was made by AOT,under the PPP and PM Samak.

Perhaps someone can clarify?.

Who told that Abhisit stopped Thaksin? Read my post again.

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better?

Abhisit did not correct ANY bad thing from previous time.

Did not make any change on good. Fact.

[Robby nz]

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better? Name any.

I would like some one say that here.

Well for a start when Thaksin was PM he was running business that benefited, and therefore enriched him, from government decisions.

For instance a large low interest loan from the Thai Govt to the Burma Govt to buy satalite communications from his company.

Then there was the money given to Cambodia to compensate Thai business that were burnt in riots, at least one of those business was owned by Thaksin.

You may not agree but I suspect it is true to say the present Govt approach to the drug problem where the law is used against dealers and importers rather than Thaksins method of using the bullet is somewhat of an improvement.

There are many more like the different approaches to corruption where Thaksin led from the front and Abhisit is at least trying (although hampered by those he has to work with) to do something to put the brakes on it.

[hyperdimension]

why do you say that full democracy cannot be achieved?? What exactly is full democracy??

Based on the 2010 Democracy Index, Thailand currently has a "Flawed democracy". There are 26 countries that have "Full democracy".

Full democracy cannot be achieved from this election because if the Democrats win, the power of the unelected elites will remain. If Pheu Thai wins, the power of the unelected elites may be reduced but we'll have Thaksin in power, who would run the country as dictator with his party of unqualified and incompetent thugs, criminals, terrorists and relatives.

I think that I have seen this table a long time ago. Interesting to see that France is on the same level as Thailand and doesn't have "full democracy" accreditation!!!! I wonder for what reason it's democracy is deemed to be flawed.

I've just read that it is because of it's semi-presidential status. Why is this different to the USA as the fact that America has a "full presidential democracy, wouldn't that make it just as flawed as France after all France has full elections like the most of Europe. Italy is there too but it's status is flawed by having Berluschoni (can't be bothered to Google his name) at the helm!!!

The ranking is based on the following factors:

1. Electoral process and pluralism
   
2. Functioning of government
   
3. Political participation
   
4. Political culture
   
5. Civil liberties
   

Read the actual reports for more detail:

Democracy Index 2010

The Economist Intelligence Unit's index of democracy 2008

The Economist Intelligence Unit's index of democracy 2006

It's interesting to see that Thailand was ranked 90th in the 2006 ranking. now it's ranked 57th out of 167 countries, the highest of the ASEAN nations.

Edited April 19, 2011 by hyperdimension

[antony77]

PTP Fragments, Smaller parties are formed. Dems win the most seats. 4 more years of Abhisit.

let us all hope so. Abhisit and Korn have have honesty and class