Chavalit's Resignation From Pheu Thai Could Be The Start Of A Major Party Split

[stepenwolf1958]

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better? Name any.

I would like some one say that here.

Well for a start when Thaksin was PM he was running business that benefited, and therefore enriched him, from government decisions.

For instance a large low interest loan from the Thai Govt to the Burma Govt to buy satalite communications from his company.

Then there was the money given to Cambodia to compensate Thai business that were burnt in riots, at least one of those business was owned by Thaksin.

You may not agree but I suspect it is true to say the present Govt approach to the drug problem where the law is used against dealers and importers rather than Thaksins method of using the bullet is somewhat of an improvement.

There are many more like the different approaches to corruption where Thaksin led from the front and Abhisit is at least trying (although hampered by those he has to work with) to do something to put the brakes on it.

It is DUTY of the Government.

What actual Government made as good for people that previous was doing wrong? People don't eat democratic methods of Abhisit in fight against drugs, right?

But while Abhisit Governing costs of life goes up with prices.

While his governing dollar sunk.(as he said in press conference:"We have a problem with American dollar")

Speaking about "higher things" that people have no benefits, i will remind you while his governing Thailand is put by Hilary Clinton, on watching list about human trafficking, remember?(together with Singapore)

While his governing problem with Cambodia burst out.

While his governing people was extradited without passport,(Victor Bout, without my wish to say any good word for international criminal, but to compare this with your statement about democratic methods toward drug dealers) and as he said without consult him and his approval(he said they just were informed about it)

That press conference was on TAN network.

So, the question remains the same.

[rubl]

Abhisit did not correct ANY bad thing from previous time.

Did not make any change on good. Fact.

Now come on, Stepenwolf. Just because you say so doesn't make it a fact. A few supporting articles, some wiki, etc., would go a long way to prove your point. Without those your 'facts' should be labeled 'opinions'. Please try again.

From your local Dutch uncle rubl

[SICHONSTEVE]

why do you say that full democracy cannot be achieved?? What exactly is full democracy??

Based on the 2010 Democracy Index, Thailand currently has a "Flawed democracy". There are 26 countries that have "Full democracy".

Full democracy cannot be achieved from this election because if the Democrats win, the power of the unelected elites will remain. If Pheu Thai wins, the power of the unelected elites may be reduced but we'll have Thaksin in power, who would run the country as dictator with his party of unqualified and incompetent thugs, criminals, terrorists and relatives.

I think that I have seen this table a long time ago. Interesting to see that France is on the same level as Thailand and doesn't have "full democracy" accreditation!!!! I wonder for what reason it's democracy is deemed to be flawed.

I've just read that it is because of it's semi-presidential status. Why is this different to the USA as the fact that America has a "full presidential democracy, wouldn't that make it just as flawed as France after all France has full elections like the most of Europe. Italy is there too but it's status is flawed by having Berluschoni (can't be bothered to Google his name) at the helm!!!

The ranking is based on the following factors:

1. Electoral process and pluralism
2. Functioning of government
3. Political participation
4. Political culture
5. Civil liberties

Read the actual reports for more detail:

Democracy Index 2010

The Economist Intelligence Unit's index of democracy 2008

The Economist Intelligence Unit's index of democracy 2006

It's interesting to see that Thailand was ranked 90th in the 2006 ranking. now it's ranked 57th out of 167 countries, the highest of the ASEAN nations.

Yes that is interesting indeed. They must have been doing something right in making Thailand more democratically accountable or perhaps the the other ASEAN countries have gone backwards. Burma and Kampuchea is not too much of a surprise but the others, well maybe that is more than a little, to me anyway!! I think Thailand is attempting to embrace democracy but it must clean up it's act in certain areas involving nepotism (Mr Thaksin) and on corruption practices in relation to how they obtain their votes. It might be a little bit harder for Thailand to climb the democracy table from here on.

Edited April 19, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[Deeral]

Thaksin orders MPs to distance from red shirts

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has ordered Pheu Thai MPs not to take part in rallies organised by the red shirts

Too little, too late...

Thaksin = PTP = Red Shirts

"Thaksin = PTP = Red Shirts"

Oh dear wouldn't it be nice if life was that simple - pity some still think it is.

It is that simple. PTP accepts the redshirt leaders as PTP candidates. Thaksin phones in to PTP leadership. Thaksin phones in to UDD rallies. Thaksin tells each group what to do.

Thaksin's attempt to distance the political party PTP, from his street politics/real politik group (UDD) is clear to anyone with eyes. His phone ins to the UDD tell them how to vote (PTP) and his talks with PTP tell them how to act.

There! THere - yes of course it is, sure as I'm sat here milking this giraffe

[Deeral]

if you need any evidence of the lack of a functioning democracy in Thailand just look at the role of the Army in that country.

For the last half century the vast majority of people they have killed maimed and wounded have been Thai.

[Deeral]

I could be wrong, but I get the definite impression that the majority of the posts on this subject are from the Thailand branch of the British Conservative Party?

Your conservatism and ignorance of the facts regarding the coup of a democratically elected government are a couple of reasons why I say this.

The yellow shirts putsch which began all this trouble was clearly the work of the conservative elements in Thai politics and still they remain illegally in power.

No matter what... these are the facts.

The unswerving support for this "old money" status quo shown here in these posts pretty much sums it up.

I bet you wish Maggie had a Thai passport?

"...... a democratically elected government......" Not true!

purely subjective - if you think you are stating a "fact" think again.

[Throatwobbler]

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better? Name any.

I would like some one say that here.

Well for a start when Thaksin was PM he was running business that benefited, and therefore enriched him, from government decisions.

For instance a large low interest loan from the Thai Govt to the Burma Govt to buy satalite communications from his company.

Then there was the money given to Cambodia to compensate Thai business that were burnt in riots, at least one of those business was owned by Thaksin.

You may not agree but I suspect it is true to say the present Govt approach to the drug problem where the law is used against dealers and importers rather than Thaksins method of using the bullet is somewhat of an improvement.

There are many more like the different approaches to corruption where Thaksin led from the front and Abhisit is at least trying (although hampered by those he has to work with) to do something to put the brakes on it.

It is DUTY of the Government.

What actual Government made as good for people that previous was doing wrong? People don't eat democratic methods of Abhisit in fight against drugs, right?

But while Abhisit Governing costs of life goes up with prices.

While his governing dollar sunk.(as he said in press conference:"We have a problem with American dollar")

Speaking about "higher things" that people have no benefits, i will remind you while his governing Thailand is put by Hilary Clinton, on watching list about human trafficking, remember?(together with Singapore)

While his governing problem with Cambodia burst out.

While his governing people was extradited without passport,(Victor Bout, without my wish to say any good word for international criminal, but to compare this with your statement about democratic methods toward drug dealers) and as he said without consult him and his approval(he said they just were informed about it)

That press conference was on TAN network.

So, the question remains the same.

You wonder why people don't reply to you? Because when they do you refuse to listen to anything they say. Your mind is already made up and I think most people have worked this out a long time ago and can't be bothered wasting their time in replying to you. I hope that answers your question.

[Screws]

Is there a man woman or child left prepared to die for Adolf Thaksin?

Depends. Did the families of those that died for him last year collect the previously agreed amounts?

[Lite Beer]

A post giving a fictional politicians name has been deleted.

[Deeral]

THis election is not a contest between Abhisit and Thaksin. Yellow or Red - it is an opportunity for the people to exercise their power by voting.....

It is NOT a football match although some of the opinions here would suggest that that is how some of the posters see it.

There is FAR more at stake here. It is an opportunity for Thailand to take a step towards being a stable democracy. ....but it needs people to be genuinely elected and FREE media to report on the issues etc.

At present the Army runs the TV etc and the government has systematically closed radio stations and internet that promotes opposition. So before we even start there has been a campaign by the government right from their inception to muzzle any voices of opposition - doesn't bode well so far.

The government has made absolutely no effort to tackle the problems corruption in voting etc unless it is to their advantage and no reforms to give better representation to the poorer regions especially in the North-East.political activists are imprisoned as criminals and the lese majeste laws are use as a tool to silence opposition. No effort has been made to repeal these laws which had lain dormant for decades.

inn short the current govenment has shown scant interest in democracy, preferring instead to ensure their own victory in any election....by fair means or foul.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Deeral

[jdinasia]

Abhisit did not correct ANY bad thing from previous time.

Did not make any change on good. Fact.

Now come on, Stepenwolf. Just because you say so doesn't make it a fact. A few supporting articles, some wiki, etc., would go a long way to prove your point. Without those your 'facts' should be labeled 'opinions'. Please try again.

From your local Dutch uncle rubl

or wishful thinking, or guesses, or propaganda ...LOL

[SICHONSTEVE]

if you need any evidence of the lack of a functioning democracy in Thailand just look at the role of the Army in that country.

For the last half century the vast majority of people they have killed maimed and wounded have been Thai.

For a nation that doesn't essentialy fight in external wars this will obviously be the case. Look at Sri Lanka - they have only killed Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers to quell the insurgency. This is the same in most of the African nations and in South America. Countries with uprisings such as Libya for example are killing their own citizens, so this is not therefore, unusual!!

[jdinasia]

"...... a democratically elected government......" Not true!

purely subjective - if you think you are stating a "fact" think again.

Actually you are wrong ... it is a fact. Thaksin dissolved parliament and that ended his being democratically elected. He became a caretaker. That caretaker government (that he resigned his position as PM of and later stepped right back in to ...) failed to get elections certified and was still a caretaker government long after any constitutional term allowed by the 1997 constitution.

[SICHONSTEVE]

What is that what Thaksin was doing wrong so Abhisit stopped it and make it better? Name any.

I would like some one say that here.

Well for a start when Thaksin was PM he was running business that benefited, and therefore enriched him, from government decisions.

For instance a large low interest loan from the Thai Govt to the Burma Govt to buy satalite communications from his company.

Then there was the money given to Cambodia to compensate Thai business that were burnt in riots, at least one of those business was owned by Thaksin.

You may not agree but I suspect it is true to say the present Govt approach to the drug problem where the law is used against dealers and importers rather than Thaksins method of using the bullet is somewhat of an improvement.

There are many more like the different approaches to corruption where Thaksin led from the front and Abhisit is at least trying (although hampered by those he has to work with) to do something to put the brakes on it.

It is DUTY of the Government.

What actual Government made as good for people that previous was doing wrong? People don't eat democratic methods of Abhisit in fight against drugs, right?

But while Abhisit Governing costs of life goes up with prices.

While his governing dollar sunk.(as he said in press conference:"We have a problem with American dollar")

Speaking about "higher things" that people have no benefits, i will remind you while his governing Thailand is put by Hilary Clinton, on watching list about human trafficking, remember?(together with Singapore)

While his governing problem with Cambodia burst out.

While his governing people was extradited without passport,(Victor Bout, without my wish to say any good word for international criminal, but to compare this with your statement about democratic methods toward drug dealers) and as he said without consult him and his approval(he said they just were informed about it)

That press conference was on TAN network.

So, the question remains the same.

You wonder why people don't reply to you? Because when they do you refuse to listen to anything they say. Your mind is already made up and I think most people have worked this out a long time ago and can't be bothered wasting their time in replying to you. I hope that answers your question.

You are implying that he is bigoted!!!

Edited April 19, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[Buchholz]

dont they have any aiding and abetting laws in Thailand?

how can a criminal fugitive be able to video phone in ???????

crazy

The half-dozen or so former fugitive Red Leaders that just turned themselves in recently had a fountain of Aiders and Abetters that took care and supported them for months and months.

Another former fugitive just returned, the Court secretary that spoke on the Red Shirt Rally Stage, freely admitted that he re-entered the country illegally and undetected has another set of A & A's.

While Red Shirt Leader Arisaman and other Reds that are still on the lam from justice and are receiving help daily from the RAAA (Red A & A Association).

The other Red Shirt Leaders that returned obviously know of his whereabouts and circumstances. It should of been made a condition of their bail that they provide assistance in locating their fellow fugitives still running from the law. That should have also been the case with Jatuporn and others who never ran and have been in custody all this time. They've all been released without telling all of what they obviously know.

.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Buchholz

[Deeral]

if you need any evidence of the lack of a functioning democracy in Thailand just look at the role of the Army in that country.

For the last half century the vast majority of people they have killed maimed and wounded have been Thai.

For a nation that doesn't essentialy fight in external wars this will obviously be the case. Look at Sri Lanka - they have only killed Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers to quell the insurgency. This is the same in most of the African nations and in South America. Countries with uprisings such as Libya for example are killing their own citizens, so this is not therefore, unusual!!

what an extraordinary reply.

Are you saying that the places you mention are "democracies"?what do you think an army's role is in a functioning democracy????You also fail to distinguish between civil war and a government that uses it's army as a police force or political tool in peacetime.

[Deeral]

"...... a democratically elected government......" Not true!

purely subjective - if you think you are stating a "fact" think again.

Actually you are wrong ... it is a fact. Thaksin dissolved parliament and that ended his being democratically elected. He became a caretaker. That caretaker government (that he resigned his position as PM of and later stepped right back in to ...) failed to get elections certified and was still a caretaker government long after any constitutional term allowed by the 1997 constitution.

sadly your post shows that you really don't understand what a "fact" is and how subjective your views are.Facts on their own are meaningless it is how you interpret them that is important - but if you can't identify one then I'd say you were a non-starter.

[Buchholz]

4 more years of Abhisit.

5 years , isn't it ?

No!!! 4 years is right - I wish it was 10 years though.

He can be around for as long as 8 of that.

Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand

Section 171. The King appoints the Prime Minister and not more than thirty-five other Ministers to constitute the Council of Ministers having the duty to carry out the administration of State affairs with collective accountability.

The Prime Minister must be a member of the House of Representatives appointed under section 172.

The President of the House of Representatives shall countersign the Royal Command appointing the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister shall not hold office for more than eight consecutive years.

[Buchholz]

He is clever, caring, understanding and knows what's needed to be done to right the wrongs that have pervaded this wonderful country over the past few years

See my sig line from Amnesty International about Abhisit.

He's just about to send 140,000 refugees from Burma back into harm's way <deleted>.

Why doesn't the UN take the 140,000 <deleted>?

*rhetorical question, no need to answer*

[rubl]

Just a reminder, the OP is about

"Chavalit's Resignation From Pheu Thai Could Be The Start Of A Major Party Split"

[Buchholz]

However another news source tells that deputy party leader Plodprasop Surasawadi has declared that PT will win 265 constituancy seats including 16 to 18 in BKK thereby being to form a one party Govt.

He also said thay Chavalit's resignation would make no difference as he was only a list MP and that no others would follow him.

whoopsy daisy.... watch your step Plodprasop...

In a related development, five members of Pheu Thai have also followed General Chavalit’s footstep by submitting their resignation as party executives.

NNT 2011-04-18

AND

Some Pheu Thai politicians are about to quit their executive positions to avoid punishment by party dissolution if they become entangled in campaign violations.

Suphon Fongngam is expected to resign as Party Secretary-General this week.

The Pheu Thai executive board would be left with a skeletal staff of administrators to oversee routine affairs.

The Nation 2011-04-18

An Executive Board without a Party Chairman, without a PTP MP Chairman, and soon without a Secretary-General, headed by a Party Leader who has tried to resign four times.... all this, two months before an election.

.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Buchholz

[rubl]

However another news source tells that deputy party leader Plodprasop Surasawadi has declared that PT will win 265 constituancy seats including 16 to 18 in BKK thereby being to form a one party Govt.

He also said thay Chavalit's resignation would make no difference as he was only a list MP and that no others would follow him.

whoopsy daisy.... watch your step Plodprasop...

In a related development, five members of Pheu Thai have also followed General Chavalit’s footstep by submitting their resignation as party executives.

NNT 2011-04-18

The 'additional five' explains the expectation of 265 seats. Before the figure was 270

Edited April 19, 2011 by rubl

[Buchholz]

whoopsy daisy.... watch your step Plodprasop...

In a related development, five members of Pheu Thai have also followed General Chavalit’s footstep by submitting their resignation as party executives.

NNT 2011-04-18

The 'additional five' explains the expectation of 265 seats. Before the figure was 270

ok, but what about the 35 seats from Chalerm's expectation of 300?

Opposition Leader Confident His Party Will Win 300 Seats in Next Election

the Pheu Thai Party will certainly win at least 300 MP seats in the next election due to the fact that Thai citizens can no longer accept the double-standards practiced by the government.

[animatic]

However another news source tells that deputy party leader Plodprasop Surasawadi has declared that PT will win 265 constituancy seats including 16 to 18 in BKK thereby being to form a one party Govt.

He also said thay Chavalit's resignation would make no difference as he was only a list MP and that no others would follow him.

whoopsy daisy.... watch your step Plodprasop...

In a related development, five members of Pheu Thai have also followed General Chavalit's footstep by submitting their resignation as party executives.

NNT 2011-04-18

AND

Some Pheu Thai politicians are about to quit their executive positions to avoid punishment by party dissolution if they become entangled in campaign violations.

Suphon Fongngam is expected to resign as Party Secretary-General this week.

The Pheu Thai executive board would be left with a skeletal staff of administrators to oversee routine affairs.

The Nation 2011-04-18

An Executive Board without a Party Chairman, without a PTP MP Chairman, and soon without a Secretary-General, headed by a Party Leader who has tried to resign four times.... all this, two months before an election.

.

It somewhat resemble throwing a brick through an old type TV screen. Watch out for glass shards as it implodes and then turns scatter shot.

Edited April 19, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

ok, but what about the 35 seats from Chalerm's expectation of 300?

Please pay attention, my dear chap:

Chalerm's expectation of 300 was way back on the 20th of July 2010. By the 22nd of the same month, same year, it was already adjusted (back) to 270.

"The spokesman said the party's goal was to win as many as 270 MP seats in the next election expected to be held early next year."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/07/22/politics/Northeast-Pheu-Thai-MPs-kowtow-to-Payap-30134321.html

[Screws]

Maybe they are all hitting the road because the yellers just got hit with 17M US fine for occupying the airport - what would the damages from reds be?

[stepenwolf1958]

Abhisit did not correct ANY bad thing from previous time.

Did not make any change on good. Fact.

Now come on, Stepenwolf. Just because you say so doesn't make it a fact. A few supporting articles, some wiki, etc., would go a long way to prove your point. Without those your 'facts' should be labeled 'opinions'. Please try again.

From your local Dutch uncle rubl

No need to google it. It is real life and is not on google, uncle Rubl. thanks for friently tone, civilized manners in talk. But...

As i stated that, as counted all bad things under this governing team, perhaps you have some information about improved life in Thailand(in compare to previous Governments and time of Mr. T(h)aksin) so i would like you say that here.)

I said what negative things happened in time of this government and i will not say anything about visa regime for foreigners as it is more strict than ever ever before) but i am asking about things which this government made as good for people's daily life. Thai people.

Have some? Post it here please.

Your nephew Step.

[rubl]

Maybe they are all hitting the road because the yellers just got hit with 17M US fine for occupying the airport - what would the damages from reds be?

When you want to put it that way, it's more correct to talk about the UDD leaders rather than MP's of the PTP.

Which reminds me, what's the status on lots of the UDD leaders who expressed desire to run for parliament as PTP MP. Have been been formally excepted, or is it another 'open' point?

[jdinasia]

Maybe they are all hitting the road because the yellers just got hit with 17M US fine for occupying the airport - what would the damages from reds be?

When you want to put it that way, it's more correct to talk about the UDD leaders rather than MP's of the PTP.

Which reminds me, what's the status on lots of the UDD leaders who expressed desire to run for parliament as PTP MP. Have been been formally excepted, or is it another 'open' point?

I THOUGHT they were accepted ... but this new stance would certainly imply that they cannot continue as Thaksin's street action mob leaders if they want to be in Thaksin's political arm.

[rubl]

Abhisit did not correct ANY bad thing from previous time.

Did not make any change on good. Fact.

Now come on, Stepenwolf. Just because you say so doesn't make it a fact. A few supporting articles, some wiki, etc., would go a long way to prove your point. Without those your 'facts' should be labeled 'opinions'. Please try again.

From your local Dutch uncle rubl

No need to google it. It is real life and is not on google, uncle Rubl. thanks for friently tone, civilized manners in talk. But...

As i stated that, as counted all bad things under this governing team, perhaps you have some information about improved life in Thailand(in compare to previous Governments and time of Mr. T(h)aksin) so i would like you say that here.)

I said what negative things happened in time of this government and i will not say anything about visa regime for foreigners as it is more strict than ever ever before) but i am asking about things which this government made as good for people's daily life. Thai people.

Have some? Post it here please.

Your nephew Step.

Now don't throw the ball back at me again, young Step. I didn't state anything, you did. I only asked you to provide some 'supporting info' for what you stated.

I'm not talking about 'visa for foreigners' either, just did my 90-day reporting last week.