Shock Over Lese-Majeste Charge Against Thammasat Historian

[stepenwolf1958]

I THINK I GOT IT!

I suppose you mean by this Khun Somsak's redshirt sympathies.Actually most centre and centre left Thais tend to have at least some identification with the redshirt cause, including distinguished academics like Khun Somsak.It could scarcely be otherwise given the state of Thai society and the excesses of the elite and its military backers.Thats why many millions of Thais back them and why the popular electoral mandate has been frustrated by coups, rigged constitutions, army intimidation and a "directed" judicial system

In this case Bucholz has pursued his usual smear campaign.What he's trying (admittedly not in a very intelligent way) to show is that Somsak is guilty of LM, associates with redshirts and therefore all concerned are equally guilty.Needless to say he has no evidence, and the LM law is of course widely discredited and indeed damaging to the institution it's designed top protect.That's why Abhisit is trying to reform it.

i see you have edited my post to minimise the effectiveness of my post when you responded to it

i think that's not allowed under TV rules

however frankly i prefer Bucholz's simple and effective demonstration as to where Somsak's sympathy's lie

what i do not need is it explained away by a red propagandist

you have already had to concede defeat once on another thread as you weren't up to the task

i do not see the world through red tinted glasses like you

thanks anyway but you are casting your evil seeds on stoney ground in trying to convert me.......

It becomes ridiculous and rather pathetic, miserable when farang so desperately fighting for one of the options in the political life of Thailand.

Country that you do not belong.

Is it just because you are forgetting the fact that such things should not be subject to convulsive struggle?

What use, benefit you personally and anyone else here have for so miserable and funny interfering and pushing the nose where it does not belong?

Is win of any side something what will some how change your life on better???

One thing is the exchange of thought, as an intelligent and decent personality and a totally different and monstrously is an attempt to try to minimize, underestimate, the right of other posters to have quite different opinions, as most here do.

If it is not pathetic, it would be funny.

Speaking about TV rules you should know it is forbidden to name any one here as propagandist of any side, without proof.

BTW, you said:

i see you have edited my post to minimize the effectiveness of my post when you responded to it

What does this mean? Are you writing your posts in try to make some EFFECT(as can be understood in your words)? These words tell us you make your propaganda here, if you write to cause the effect, as you say. This is why you can not call anyone here propagandist because you are doing so.

Next, who do you think you are? Some relevant person in this chaos in politic life of Thailand? Who cares what side you belong? Thais? No way! Farangs in Thailand? No way! Farangs out of Thailand? No way!

So don't have a nose in clouds saying about yourself that you are STONEY ground as it is ridiculous. Especially, don't say for some different opinion than yours that it is EVIL SEEDS as it shows you as not decent and democratic man, tolerant and able to accept right of other to different opinion. You should show here far more culture, civilian manner.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed from view.

[yoshiwara]

An interesting quote from Somsak:

Thaksin works this way. He has his key supporters competing among themselves (like a CEO has his executives competing) and he would keep them all, especially now that he’s in exile and would gladly accept all the help he can get.

[chuang]

"The Democrats ... are behind the laying of charges. "

Opinion or fact? I am no fan of the LM law, but I don't see any evidence of the Democrats being behind it.

FACT!..every since the Democrates announced the coming election...many have been charged with LM...

[Buchholz]

"The Democrats ... are behind the laying of charges. "

Opinion or fact? I am no fan of the LM law, but I don't see any evidence of the Democrats being behind it.

FACT!..every since the Democrates announced the coming election...many have been charged with LM...

Please provide the statistical analysis necessary to conclude this is a "FACT!"

How many LM charges in the 2 months preceding the election announcement were there and for the 2 months since?

Please also include references that the Democrats are behind your purported "many" in the past 2 months.

Thanks.

.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Buchholz

[jdinasia]

"The Democrats ... are behind the laying of charges. "

Opinion or fact? I am no fan of the LM law, but I don't see any evidence of the Democrats being behind it.

FACT!..every since the Democrates announced the coming election...many have been charged with LM...

Please provide the statistical analysis necessary to conclude this is a "FACT!"

How many LM charges in the 2 months preceding the election announcement were there and for the 2 months since?

Please also include references that the Democrats are behind your purported "many" in the past 2 months.

Thanks.

.

There is a "fact" in the guy's post. Many HAVE been charged with LM. What is missing is any correlation to the Dems. The elections may in fact be drawing out people that are committing LM offenses as seen on April 10th in larger numbers.

How hard is it to watch your mouth and not imply something that would be a violation of the LM laws?

[jayboy]

There is a "fact" in the guy's post. Many HAVE been charged with LM. What is missing is any correlation to the Dems. The elections may in fact be drawing out people that are committing LM offenses as seen on April 10th in larger numbers.

How hard is it to watch your mouth and not imply something that would be a violation of the LM laws?

What you are missing is the growing consensus that the abuse of LM is a national disgrace, harming rather than protecting the institution it is designed to correct.

You make one speculative and in my view wrong headed assumption why LM accusations have accelerated in the pre election period.There is a more plausible explanation based on political opportunism on the part of the ruling elite and the military that backs it.

[dominique355]

Whoever is in power here controls the laws and how they are applied. Many things are political here its crazy to think there are no ulterior motives for this case. In other countries i would see it differently but not here.

The police control how the laws are applied. Whoever is in power changes laws.

Thailand's LM laws have been in use since 1908. It would be political suicide for those in power to try and change the LM laws. Even Thaksin has filed LM charges and he made no effort to change the laws while in power.

Your a bit naive.. whoever is in control controls the police and what laws are applied and who is charged. This is Thailand the ones in power decide what happens. That is why they all want to be in power. I just see the democrats as the lesser evil.

Hmm.. whoever is in control controls the police? Really? I remember how those in control tried hard to have the police remove demonstrators from Rajaprasong intersection, to no avail. The image of watermelon was crafted. And they had to call the army to do the job.

Nobody controls the police in this country. They are a separate entity and they do pretty much what they want, without any consequence.

If you want your political opponent to shut up, simply file charges of LM. The police has to investigate and almost inevitably they guy is silenced. The problem with this law is that no court cases are ever published for studying, so we do not know what exactly is considered as an insult. Those who use the law for their own benefit, know that.

In my opinion, this kind of abuse of the LM law for political purposed is the real insult here.

[jdinasia]

There is a "fact" in the guy's post. Many HAVE been charged with LM. What is missing is any correlation to the Dems. The elections may in fact be drawing out people that are committing LM offenses as seen on April 10th in larger numbers.

How hard is it to watch your mouth and not imply something that would be a violation of the LM laws?

What you are missing is the growing consensus that the abuse of LM is a national disgrace, harming rather than protecting the institution it is designed to correct.

You make one speculative and in my view wrong headed assumption why LM accusations have accelerated in the pre election period.There is a more plausible explanation based on political opportunism on the part of the ruling elite and the military that backs it.

You make one speculative and in my view wrong headed assumption why LM charges have accelerated in the pre-election period. The most plausible explanation based on political reality is that there have been more actual LM offenses.

[dukkha]

I would imagine Green Lantern speaks for quite some number of thais....

[jayboy]

There is a "fact" in the guy's post. Many HAVE been charged with LM. What is missing is any correlation to the Dems. The elections may in fact be drawing out people that are committing LM offenses as seen on April 10th in larger numbers.

How hard is it to watch your mouth and not imply something that would be a violation of the LM laws?

What you are missing is the growing consensus that the abuse of LM is a national disgrace, harming rather than protecting the institution it is designed to correct.

You make one speculative and in my view wrong headed assumption why LM accusations have accelerated in the pre election period.There is a more plausible explanation based on political opportunism on the part of the ruling elite and the military that backs it.

You make one speculative and in my view wrong headed assumption why LM charges have accelerated in the pre-election period. The most plausible explanation based on political reality is that there have been more actual LM offenses.

You repeat my comment, along with your original speculative assertion.That's not dialogue.

[zzaa09]

"The Democrats ... are behind the laying of charges. "

Opinion or fact? I am no fan of the LM law, but I don't see any evidence of the Democrats being behind it.

FACT!..every since the Democrates announced the coming election...many have been charged with LM...

Interesting to note about the rebirth of the broad LM laws and how any and every mandate has been put into principle with zealotry and angst. It has become a modern political tool, to be sure. Examining the relatively benign protective law that basically made it's way into the Siamese Kingdom early in the 20th-century {officially}, LM laws and procedures have never been so feverishly approached until this last generation......as there was almost an instinctive unconsciousness throughout all Thai circles as LM was regarded. It is what it is. The highly intense declarations and public accusation have just recently been brought to the forefront of political Thailand. The base law should not be the entity examined harshly or with suspect, but instead the "newish" groups that use it as a political crutch and advantage.

[jdinasia]

My post reflects what I see as political reality and not an oft repeated remark by some about the "elite" ... LM charges can be and I am sure are, used by some as a political tool. That does not change the most likely reason for the upswing in charges being that more people are violating the law.

The whole "elite" claim is garbage, since we are dealing with a country with regional power families/political machines etc that are the "elite" every bit as much as any other group.

That some people can claim to have seen the video of the April 10th speeches and not think that Jatuporn said anything worthy of a LM charge (and probable conviction) tells a lot about those people, particularly when people inside the PTP spoke out against the speeches.

[animatic]

There is a "fact" in the guy's post. Many HAVE been charged with LM. What is missing is any correlation to the Dems. The elections may in fact be drawing out people that are committing LM offenses as seen on April 10th in larger numbers.

How hard is it to watch your mouth and not imply something that would be a violation of the LM laws?

What you are missing is the growing consensus that the abuse of LM is a national disgrace, harming rather than protecting the institution it is designed to correct.

You make one speculative and in my view wrong headed assumption why LM accusations have accelerated in the pre election period.There is a more plausible explanation based on political opportunism on the part of the ruling elite and the military that backs it.

You make one speculative and in my view wrong headed assumption why LM charges have accelerated in the pre-election period. The most plausible explanation based on political reality is that there have been more actual LM offenses.

You repeat my comment, along with your original speculative assertion.That's not dialogue.

Yes, dialog would be his points being adressed when raised, not deflected and ignored S.O.P.

[animatic]

My post reflects what I see as political reality and not an oft repeated remark by some about the "elite" ... LM charges can be and I am sure are, used by some as a political tool. That does not change the most likely reason for the upswing in charges being that more people are violating the law.

The whole "elite" claim is garbage, since we are dealing with a country with regional power families/political machines etc that are the "elite" every bit as much as any other group.

That some people can claim to have seen the video of the April 10th speeches and not think that Jatuporn said anything worthy of a LM charge (and probable conviction) tells a lot about those people, particularly when people inside the PTP spoke out against the speeches.

Seconded, quite logically.

[Thaiered]

Lese-Majeste - isn't it about time that Thailand woke up to this rediculous law? So I can be imprisoned for saying one wrong word about the King yet this country thrives on prostitution, stealing, lying and cheating "fallang" to make money given that they just go to the nearest Buddha shrine the next day and all is well "good for the heart" - complete and utter hypocrisy I think in a country where prostitution is rife, yet illegal, the Royal Thai Police are the mafia, and the Prime Minister who was born and educated in the UK carries UK citizenship yet we have to endure the 90 day visa runs just so we can spend our hard earnt cash here and be treated as 2nd rate citizens

Come on this is the 21st century isnt it? The Thais don't respect their own ................................... and just to finish - "Lese Majeste" actually derives from Latin and later French - where does that include Thai? who originate from China I wonder??

[Oberkommando]

The whole "elite" claim is garbage, since we are dealing with a country with regional power families/political machines etc that are the "elite" every bit as much as any other group.

It certainly isn't the case, and I would suggest these laws are designed to keep us from discussing that topic in any greater detail.

[Oberkommando]

Quote from Abhisit himself, and more evidence of hypocrisy.

According to the source, Mr Abhisit pointed out that critics who expressed their academic views had to be separated from those who had ill intentions towards the monarchy.”Especially among internet users, people who express opinions honestly must not be forced to join the movements of those with ill intentions,” the source quoted him as saying.

[cdnvic]

Quote from Abhisit himself, and more evidence of hypocrisy.

According to the source, Mr Abhisit pointed out that critics who expressed their academic views had to be separated from those who had ill intentions towards the monarchy."Especially among internet users, people who express opinions honestly must not be forced to join the movements of those with ill intentions," the source quoted him as saying.

source?

[Oberkommando]

Quote from Abhisit himself, and more evidence of hypocrisy.

According to the source, Mr Abhisit pointed out that critics who expressed their academic views had to be separated from those who had ill intentions towards the monarchy."Especially among internet users, people who express opinions honestly must not be forced to join the movements of those with ill intentions," the source quoted him as saying.

source?

It was a statement by Abhisit to senators in 2009 from the BP so can't link to it, sorry.

[rubl]

Quote from Abhisit himself, and more evidence of hypocrisy.

According to the source, Mr Abhisit pointed out that critics who expressed their academic views had to be separated from those who had ill intentions towards the monarchy."Especially among internet users, people who express opinions honestly must not be forced to join the movements of those with ill intentions," the source quoted him as saying.

source?

The 'other' newspaper on 2009-03-28 (PM: Web lese majeste a worry) describing questions about left-wing academic Giles Ungpakorn's recent statements in England. The quote above is somewhat out of context.

(edit: correct date of article, not 2011 but 2009!)

Edited April 25, 2011 by rubl

[Oberkommando]

The 'other' newspaper on 2011-03-28 (PM: Web lese majeste a worry) describing questions about left-wing academic Giles Ungpakorn's recent statements in England. The quote above is somewhat out of context.

Not when I was using it to show Abhisit agrees there is a difference between an academic commenting and someone with malicious intent.

[rubl]

The 'other' newspaper on 2011-03-28 (PM: Web lese majeste a worry) describing questions about left-wing academic Giles Ungpakorn's recent statements in England. The quote above is somewhat out of context.

Not when I was using it to show Abhisit agrees there is a difference between an academic commenting and someone with malicious intent.

We seem to agree we disagree. End of possible discussion.

[Buchholz]

Political activists and associates of high-profile Thammasat University historian Somsak Jiamteerasakul have reacted with shock to the lese-majeste charge filed against him.

To further confuse matters, according to Somsak's speech yesterday, he's not yet actually had charges filed against him (which probably accounts for his accuser not being identified in the OP as is usually the case in these matters).

[Insight]

Political activists and associates of high-profile Thammasat University historian Somsak Jiamteerasakul have reacted with shock to the lese-majeste charge filed against him.

To further confuse matters, according to Somsak's speech yesterday, he's not yet actually had charges filed against him (which probably accounts for his accuser not being identified in the OP as is usually the case in these matters).

I smell red shirts.

[dunkin2012]

Political activists and associates of high-profile Thammasat University historian Somsak Jiamteerasakul have reacted with shock to the lese-majeste charge filed against him.

To further confuse matters, according to Somsak's speech yesterday, he's not yet actually had charges filed against him (which probably accounts for his accuser not being identified in the OP as is usually the case in these matters).

I smell red shirts.

I did Google...

he is red........... pro-Thaksin gang..........

............... ok.... he can think different......

[chuang]

"The Democrats ... are behind the laying of charges. "

Opinion or fact? I am no fan of the LM law, but I don't see any evidence of the Democrats being behind it.

FACT!..every since the Democrates announced the coming election...many have been charged with LM...

Please provide the statistical analysis necessary to conclude this is a "FACT!"

How many LM charges in the 2 months preceding the election announcement were there and for the 2 months since?

Please also include references that the Democrats are behind your purported "many" in the past 2 months.

Thanks.

.

If you have been following the events in Thailand and be able to analyse them with a sound mind you would not be asking such questions unless you were born yesterday....

[animatic]

"The Democrats ... are behind the laying of charges. "

Opinion or fact? I am no fan of the LM law, but I don't see any evidence of the Democrats being behind it.

FACT!..every since the Democrates announced the coming election...many have been charged with LM...

Please provide the statistical analysis necessary to conclude this is a "FACT!"

How many LM charges in the 2 months preceding the election announcement were there and for the 2 months since?

Please also include references that the Democrats are behind your purported "many" in the past 2 months.

Thanks.

.

If you have been following the events in Thailand and be able to analyse them with a sound mind you would not be asking such questions unless you were born yesterday....

He has been, he is able to, and he is correctly asking for your attribution on this statement, he is also not hardly a babe in arms.

I am also here and of sound mind and analytical abilities.

And I don't see a specific Democratic Party link to the LM charges. I do see Army AND police links clear as day.

So your assumption is that most of the army backs the dems, so it must be a Dem plot? Or wait if they are watermelons in the army then are you saying only the army leaders back the Dems?

That's like saying most Thaivisa posters drink alcohol,

so most MUST be drunks. Patently untrue, but....

etc etc.

Edited April 25, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Red Shirt, neo-communist, philosopher charged with insulting monarchy after 9 months of active support for rebellious zealot group. Carefully crafted denunciations of status quo, appear not crafted well enough. Some shocked, others not surprised. Talking head mouths continue chattering, depending on political leanings. More at 10pm.

[chuang]

]

I am also here and of sound mind and analytical abilities.

And I don't see a specific Democratic Party link to the LM charges. I do see Army AND police links clear as day.

So your assumption is that most of the army backs the dems, so it must be a Dem plot? Or wait if they are watermelons in the army then are you saying only the army leaders back the Dems?

That's like saying most Thaivisa posters drink alcohol,

so most MUST be drunks. Patently untrue, but....

etc etc.

Who is the present Thai Government...the red shirt, yellow shirt, no man, the army set up the Democrats as government...so tne ARMY is the government, they and the Democrats are cohorts.

You can't call the army a swine, probably some draconian charges would be on you, but you can called a swine, the army ...