Ach Transfers From Us Bank Account To Bangkok Bank

[Pib]

I have ACH funds transfer links to Bangkok Bank setup with Bank of America, USAA, and Schwab. ACH transfer charge by these U.S. banks is zero, with the exception of Bank of America which charges $3. For the Schwab accounts, the brokerage account can be setup via trial deposits; but their banking checking/savings accounts require you to mail them a form. Transfers from all above mentioned U.S. banks arrive Bangkok Bank in 2 to 3 "business" days (be sure to exclude weekends, Thai banking holidays, and U.S. holidays in figuring out the business days). Setting up the transfer links (a one time thing) using trial deposits also takes about 2 to 3 days since it's just a funds transfer although specially coded. This special coding as a trial deposit ensure no fees are applied by any bank involved in relaying/receiving the trail deposit amount....if fees were applied along the way, a trial deposit would be made pretty much useless.

If you have Bangkok Bank account setup to provide SMS notice on deposits, then the SMS notice tells you the baht amount received/exchanged, date of receipt, to include the foreign currency amount and exchange rate (I've always got the TT Buying Rate Update 1 for the day). If you don't have the SMS notice setup or miss the SMS notice because your phone is turned off when the SMS comes in, you just need to call the Bangkok Bank to get the amount of foreign currency received...they are use to getting these types of calls. I did this just last week when setting up another link between my USAA account and my second Bangkok Bank account. Another way to do it (although not really recommended), is to take the baht amount deposited to your account and then divide by the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate Update 1 of the day...now I have never used this method since I've always got the SMS method or called the bank but several times I did the math afterward using the TT Buying Rate Update 1 on the day of deposit, the calculation gave me to within a few hundredths of a penny of matching the actual trail deposit amount I got via SMS or calling....but I realize I may have been lucky on how the math worked out due to the trial deposit amount, exchange rate of the date, etc. Much better to get the SMS notice or call to ensure you get the for sure, exact amount versus messing up the trial deposit verification.

Summary: setting up funds transfer links from your U.S. bank to Bangkok Bank is generally easy and usually fast, at least in my experience with my banks. But I did have once experience about 5 years ago where Bank of America dropped Bangkok Bank from their list of banks they would do online ACH transfers to (you could still do signed form transfers), but that only lasted a few months and then Bangkok Bank was back on the list.

[Jingthing]

Yet another detail question about setting up the ACH links with test deposits.

While I understand you need to call BB to find out the amount of the deposits in cents, do the deposits in baht appear on BB ONLINE to clue you in that the deposits have happened (so you know it's time to call)?

[flying]

do the deposits in baht appear on BB ONLINE to clue you in that the deposits have happened (so you know it's time to call)?

yes they do

[JimGant]

If you do the figures on the cost of these EFTS to Bangkok Bank versus a normal E*trade Wire at $25 it doesn't appear to be a very good deal IMHO

I'm not sure about E*trade ACH costs -- are they more than $15 per transaction? Otherwise, the $10 BB NY fee (for amts $2001-$50000) saves you $15 over a wire transfer (even more over the majority of banks charging more than $25 for wire transfers). Receiving end fees are the same for both wire and ACH (EFTS)transfers.

What am I missing?

[wildoates]

Lopburi... I don't do one of those direct deposit govt paycheck arrangements with BKK B. (One reason is, I don't choose to have to make a bank branch visit every month with ID in order to collect the deposited funds). But since the issue's been raised, maybe you know the answer...

If someone has made the arrangements to have their federal pension or SS payment direct deposited to BKK Bank, with all the requirements that go along with that particular arrangement, does BKK Bank charge the same handling fees on those funds that they do on regular U.S. to Thailand transfers???

i.e., a handling fee by the New York branch, and then a 0.25% (minimum 200 baht, maximum 500 baht) commission on the Thailand end...

Or do they handle the federal direct deposits simply at the day's buying TT rate with no surcharges tacked on?

they are the same...you get the 2 fees.

[wildoates]

If you do the figures on the cost of these EFTS to Bangkok Bank versus a normal E*trade Wire at $25 it doesn't appear to be a very good deal IMHO

I'm not sure about E*trade ACH costs -- are they more than $15 per transaction? Otherwise, the $10 BB NY fee (for amts $2001-$50000) saves you $15 over a wire transfer (even more over the majority of banks charging more than $25 for wire transfers). Receiving end fees are the same for both wire and ACH (EFTS)transfers.

What am I missing?

With SCB I do not get receiving end fees....(wire transfer)

[JimGant]

Technically, an ACH to BB NYC is a domestic transfer to New York. But in reality it is an international transfer. So wouldn't attempting such transfers be against their stated policy ... or is it? Surely they know what's going on, wouldn't they?

Your money's ride across the pond, from NY to Bangkok, is SWIFT encoded (next time you do an ACH to BB, ask for a printout of the transaction -- you'll see the SWIFT references). And, SWIFT encoding is all the Feds need to see to allow the international segment of your transaction.

For further info -- and a guaranteed headache -- Google on International ACH Transactions (IAT).

[jfchandler]

Thanks for the info, WO!

Lopburi... I don't do one of those direct deposit govt paycheck arrangements with BKK B. (One reason is, I don't choose to have to make a bank branch visit every month with ID in order to collect the deposited funds). But since the issue's been raised, maybe you know the answer...

If someone has made the arrangements to have their federal pension or SS payment direct deposited to BKK Bank, with all the requirements that go along with that particular arrangement, does BKK Bank charge the same handling fees on those funds that they do on regular U.S. to Thailand transfers???

i.e., a handling fee by the New York branch, and then a 0.25% (minimum 200 baht, maximum 500 baht) commission on the Thailand end...

Or do they handle the federal direct deposits simply at the day's buying TT rate with no surcharges tacked on?

they are the same...you get the 2 fees.

[JimGant]

Pib, your latest USAA trial-deposit with Bangkok Bank -- did you check the block that said something to the effect "I have control over transfer account" (in this case, Bangkok Bank)?

When I did this a few years back with USAA, I checked "yes," and thus two trial deposits were sent. Then, a message from USAA saying something like "Bangkok Bank says they are receive-only, and so we are setting the transfer bank up as receive-only." The trial deposit amounts weren't asked for by USAA to establish this link with BB (nor were they returned to USAA, per normal, since the pipeline only runs from the US to Thailand).

I later added another BB account for USAA transfers. This time I checked "no" when asked about control over the receiving account. No trial deposits sent, and transfer account again set up as "receive only."

So, as advertised, the pipeline from the US to Bangkok Bank is "push" only. And USAA makes this pretty obvious, both in the set-up process, and when you now click the "transfer" button -- the "from" list shows no Bangkok Bank accounts.

Again, this was several years ago. USAA, and their trial deposit procedures, may have changed (but,what occurred with me seems to make sense).

[jazzbo]

Skipping to the end of all this, I will add that I have Bangkok Bank ACH transfers established with both Wells Fargo and BofA -- each time I just walked into my local BBL branch and asked the person at the international desk to print out the exact US cents test deposits and had Zero problem.

[lopburi3]

As of last year USAA was the same and you chose not have control for one way ACH.

Bangkok Bank offers SMS service for foreign transfers and find it excellent as full details are provided at the time it enters your account here.

[Pib]

<BR>Pib, your latest USAA trial-deposit with Bangkok Bank -- did you check the block that said something to the effect "I have control over transfer account" (in this case, Bangkok Bank)?<BR><BR>When I did this a few years back with USAA, I checked "yes," and thus two trial deposits were sent. Then, a message from USAA saying something like "Bangkok Bank says they are receive-only, and so we are setting the transfer bank up as receive-only." The trial deposit amounts weren't asked for by USAA to establish this link with BB (nor were they returned to USAA, per normal, since the pipeline only runs from the US to Thailand).<BR><BR>I later added another BB account for USAA transfers. This time I checked "no" when asked about control over the receiving account. No trial deposits sent, and transfer account again set up as "receive only."<BR><BR>So, as advertised, the pipeline from the US to Bangkok Bank is "push" only. And USAA makes this pretty obvious, both in the set-up process, and when you now click the "transfer" button -- the "from" list shows no Bangkok Bank accounts.<BR><BR>Again, this was several years ago. USAA, and their trial deposit procedures, may have changed (but,what occurred with me seems to make sense).<BR>

My latest USAA trial deposit setup (Apr 11) was to an account in my name only. Yes, I clicked the block you referenced above. The link setup as a push & pull link, although I know I can't pull from the Bangkok Bank account. Back in Dec 10 when I first got my USAA account I setup a link to my other Bangkok Bank account, which is a joint account with my Thai wife (my name in English first on the account and her name in Thai second on the account). Once again I clicked the block you reference to setup the link as a push and pull link and it setup no problem. USAA didn't pull the trial deposits back from Bangkok Bank like they do when I setup links to U.S. banks...they didn't pull them back because I expect the pullback request was rejected by Bangkok Bank....but as mentioned, the push & pull links setup fine whether to my joint account or my name only account. No problem with setting up push & pull links to Bangkok Bank from any of my other U.S. banks either.

Maybe things have changed since you tried a few years ago or something squirrelly is going on with your account. You might want to delete the current link and try setting it up again as a push & pull link; I figure the worst thing that can happen is it sets up again as a push only, which is really all my "push & pull" link is also since Bangkok Bank won't let funds be pulled. As you know, Thai banks have special requirements (i.e., work permit, family support, etc) for being able to get/send funds out of the country which need to be setup separately (more paperwork) with the Thai banks.

For my joint account and my name only Bangkok Bank accounts, here is what the USAA links show. Both links reflect "To/From" which I assume means Push & Pull. I expect a link setup as a Push only shows "To"?

Edited May 1, 2011 by Pib

[Suradit]

If you receive SMS from Bangkok Bank for such deposits it will list the original currency amount as well as the baht amount and conversion rate each time.

I can not remember if such deposit was even made for my USAA account. The key is to set it up as an account you do not have control over so no attempt will be made to withdraw funds from it.

I can say system has worked flawlessly for me during the last 14 months. USAA no charge, Bangkok Bank NY reduce 5k to $4,990. Normal baht conversion 1/4% at Bangkok. Time range from 24 to 48 hours during weekdays.

Yes, I make periodic electronic transfers from my US brokerage account to the New York branch of Bangkok Bank and get a SMS message when the money is available here ... usually within 48 hours or less. No charge from my broker and a very small charge from Bangkok Bank.

The transfer should be in dollars. If you ask your US bank to transfer baht to Bangkok Bank you'll get whacked on rates and charges from all sides.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Suradit

[Langsuan Man]

If you do the figures on the cost of these EFTS to Bangkok Bank versus a normal E*trade Wire at $25 it doesn't appear to be a very good deal IMHO

I'm not sure about E*trade ACH costs -- are they more than $15 per transaction? Otherwise, the $10 BB NY fee (for amts $2001-$50000) saves you $15 over a wire transfer (even more over the majority of banks charging more than $25 for wire transfers). Receiving end fees are the same for both wire and ACH (EFTS)transfers.

What am I missing?

Bangkok Bank in Thailand also charges a fee of 0.25% of the amount in the Baht currency (minimum of THB 200; maximum of THB 500) when the funds are deposited into the recipientÆs Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.

source:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Transfering%20Funds/Transferring%20into%20Thailand/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20USA/pages/receiving%20funds%20form%20usa%20fee.aspx

[Langsuan Man]

With SCB I do not get receiving end fees....(wire transfer)

Maybe not from SCB but someone along the line takes a chunk

On a $10,000 SWIFT transfer from E*Trade the "clearing or correspondence " bank takes $15

That is why I always wire $10,040 from E*trade, $25 for the wire, and $15 for someone along the chain

[JimGant]

Bangkok Bank in Thailand also charges a fee of 0.25% of the amount in the Baht currency (minimum of THB 200; maximum of THB 500) when the funds are deposited into the recipientÆs Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.

Right. As I said, the .25% receiving-end fee is the same, whether or not the funds are wired, or sent via ACH (EFTS).

So, all that remains to compare is the front-end fees. And you say the $25 wire fee is somehow superior to paying a $10 ACH fee.

That's where my confusion comes in.......

[JimGant]

You might want to delete the current link and try setting it up again as a push & pull link; I figure the worst thing that can happen is it sets up again as a push only, which is really all my "push & pull" link is also since Bangkok Bank won't let funds be pulled.

Not sure why you so advise... The setup defaulted to a "push" only transfer system -- which is all you can get with the BB NY link. Why you would want it labeled a "push and pull link" -- when "pull" is nonoperative, is interesting....

Click on your USAA "transfer" option. Do you see any of your Bangkok Bank accounts listed in the "from" column? If so, please try "pulling" from one of those accounts back to USAA. That should be interesting....

If, indeed, USAA, because of the validated trial deposit drill, set up a "push and pull" link with Bangkok Bank, then they're now seriously astray. As I said, when I tried to establish the 'push pull transfer,' Bangkok Bank alerted USAA that this was not possible, USAA killed the trial deposit drill, and then set-up a "push" only transfer system.

This is the way it should work. That you can now set-up a "push, pull" transfer system between USAA and BB, ain't good -- because if you try to pull from Thailand, all kinds of interesting things can happen (see International ACH Transfers, mentioned previously).

Curious about your "pull" options, Pib....

[Pib]

You might want to delete the current link and try setting it up again as a push & pull link; I figure the worst thing that can happen is it sets up again as a push only, which is really all my "push & pull" link is also since Bangkok Bank won't let funds be pulled.

Not sure why you so advise... The setup defaulted to a "push" only transfer system -- which is all you can get with the BB NY link. Why you would want it labeled a "push and pull link" -- when "pull" is nonoperative, is interesting....

Click on your USAA "transfer" option. Do you see any of your Bangkok Bank accounts listed in the "from" column? If so, please try "pulling" from one of those accounts back to USAA. That should be interesting....

If, indeed, USAA, because of the validated trial deposit drill, set up a "push and pull" link with Bangkok Bank, then they're now seriously astray. As I said, when I tried to establish the 'push pull transfer,' Bangkok Bank alerted USAA that this was not possible, USAA killed the trial deposit drill, and then set-up a "push" only transfer system.

This is the way it should work. That you can now set-up a "push, pull" transfer system between USAA and BB, ain't good -- because if you try to pull from Thailand, all kinds of interesting things can happen (see International ACH Transfers, mentioned previously).

Curious about your "pull" options, Pib....

There is no default setup (mabye there was years back when you setup the link). Currently, when setting up a transfer link it asks you the following: "Do you have signature authority over this account?" You then make one of two choices which are: "Yes, I will make deposits and withdrawals from this account?" "No, I will only make deposits to this account."

Now, fully knowing I can't withdraw from Bangkok Bank at this time due to Bank of Thailand regulations (maybe Thai banking rules will change in the future) I have always selected the "Yes" choice and the link setup no problem. Same with my other U.S. banks. Guess I'm a bad boy.

Yes, my two Bangkok Bank accounts are also listed as choices in Transfer "From" list/column. But no, I'm not going to attempt a pull because I know it won't work because Bangkok Bank will block a pull. All I can say is my links setup with USAA as push & pull; can't say why yours didn't.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Pib

[jfchandler]

Click on your USAA "transfer" option. Do you see any of your Bangkok Bank accounts listed in the "from" column? If so, please try "pulling" from one of those accounts back to USAA. That should be interesting....

I believe the BKK Bank web page on this transfer method warns not to attempt to do pulls from the U.S. side, saying that the linkage could/would be cancelled if someone tries that.

Important Note

You cannot transfer funds from Bangkok Bank's account in Thailand to your account with banks or online payment service providers in the US via Bangkok Bank's New York branch and the ACH system. If you initiate direct debit or ACH debit transactions to Bangkok Bank's New York branch, banks in the US and online payment service providers may suspend your account.

[jfchandler]

There is no default setup (mabye there was years back when you setup the link). Currently, when setting up a transfer link it asks you the following: "Do you have signature authority over this account?" You then make one of two choices which are: "Yes, I will make deposits and withdrawals from this account?" "No, I will only make deposits to this account."

Leaving BKK Bank aside for a moment, I've seen different U.S. banks handle the ACH linking process in several different ways regarding this.

For many and probably most in my experience, they automatically (no questions or prompts) set up any ACH link as enabled for push and pull from your other U.S. accounts.

But for some, when going thru the setup process, you are given the choice of whether you want to have the transfers be one-way only, or two-way...

E*Trade, even a bit different from both of the above, doesn't ask any question like that in the setup process, but initially sets up any new ACH link as one way... And then, once the link is established, you have to click a menu choice in online banking for that link to enable two-way transfers.

It probably doesn't much matter with links to BKK B NY...because, pulls from Thailand aren't allowed anyway.... And it would seem the likelihood of that being allowed in the future, considering how modern and efficient Thailand's legal system is, would be rather remote.

Also, re the comment above about the Thai banks' paperwork-heavy method that does allow sending funds to the U.S., I believe the "family support" option, along with educational expenses, only applies to Thais, not farang...

From what I've seen reading their information on this pretty closely lately, the only reason allowed for farangs is sending back wages earned here in Thailand. For instance, if one of us was supporting their parents financially but not working here in Thailand, I don't believe the Thai banks would allow their electronic transfer method for that using funds in your baht account here...

[Langsuan Man]

Bangkok Bank in Thailand also charges a fee of 0.25% of the amount in the Baht currency (minimum of THB 200; maximum of THB 500) when the funds are deposited into the recipientÆs Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.

Right. As I said, the .25% receiving-end fee is the same, whether or not the funds are wired, or sent via ACH (EFTS).

So, all that remains to compare is the front-end fees. And you say the $25 wire fee is somehow superior to paying a $10 ACH fee.

That's where my confusion comes in.......

I don't know for a fact that BB charges the .25% for receiving wires. I only quoted the fees from the ACH page and then only to answer your question "what am I missing ?"

My initial point to Jingthing was that you have to evaluate how much and how often you are going to use the EFTS versus wires, ergo In My Humble Opinion

Similar to

I use Wells Fargo, but not Bangkok bank. I had a bangkok bank account, but the fees started adding up. Each deposit in the NY BBK was $5 off the top, then another $8-10 when it got here. these were direct deposit check, so I got 2 per month. I do a wire transfer to SCB from Wells Fargo for a fee of $25 no matter how much it is, and SCB does not charge anything at this end. Dong this 1 x pr month and I pick the date of the transfer works out better for me.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank rules for periodically/routinely transferring money out are at this link: http://www.bangkokba.../Pages/IFT.aspx For farangs it does seem to be limited to those with a work permit and sending their earnings back to the home country.

There are other ways like repatriating funds like from a home sale; funds you had sent over earlier to buy the home. But you need certain paperwork to do this. And of course we see TV posts of people walking into banks and wiring money back...and some of these posts seemed like it was not wages/earning being sent back, etc. I've never had the need nor attempted to send money out of Thailand (yet), but there are ways to do it with the right paperwork. Also seems to vary from bank to bank....kinda like how interpretation of visa policy seems to vary from immigration office to immigration office.

Generally, it seems Bank of Thailand has made regulations that have wide open arms and a big smile for incoming funds; but for outgoing funds the rules ain't nearly as friendly. TIT.

[jfchandler]

There really are three different things on the table here:

1. a pre-arranged, automatic direct deposit directed from the U.S. side to BKK Bank New York.

2. an at-will, user initiated ACH transfer from a U.S. account to BKK Bank NY.

3. a traditional wire transfer from a U.S. bank to BKK Bank or any other Thai bank.

If someone is getting biweekly checks automatically direct deposited to BKKB New York, I can see how the fees for that would exceed a monthly wire transfer, assuming the wire transfer fee on the U.S. end was minimal.

But if the comparison is between a monthly wire transfer vs. a monthly ACH thru BKK Bank New York, in the one for one comparison, I think the ACH to BKK Bank NY is going to be more cost effective almost all of the time -- unless someone has a U.S. setup that provides no-fee wire transfers, which seems pretty rare.

That said, IMHO, I'd always opt for a direct deposit to a U.S. account... and not to BKK B NY... for a couple of reasons...

1. Since the ACH transfers from my U.S. sending banks are free, there's no down side on the fees end. 2. It allows me to control the timing/frequency of the transfers. And 3. Given how restrictive Thailand is about moving funds OUT of Thailand and back to the U.S., I'd rather keep my funds in the U.S., and then move them as needed here... rather than face the hassles and expense of trying to move them Thailand to U.S. if needed.

PS - As for SCB, I'm about 99.9% certain they don't handle incoming international wires for free... If they don't charge an explicit fee for receiving wired funds, then they're almost certainly taking their cut by using a lower exchange rate via their Dynamic Currency Conversion practice.

[Pib]

When it comes to doing SWIFT or ACH transfers "if" a person is lucky enough to get a debit/ATM card that does not charge any foreign transaction fees, reimburses ATM fees, and/or you use an AEON machine with you no-fee card, a person can get nearly equal or better exchange rate by using the debit/ATM card. I know since I was able to get one of these cards, my Schwab Visa debit card, I've been able to greatly cut back on the need to do any ACH transfers. I have no transfers fees to pay on the sending or receiving end, I get a little better than the TT Buying rate with my Visa card, and I get the money immediately. With my card providing up to $1000/day in withdrawal that more than meets my day-to-day living expenses by doing periodic withdrawals during the month...and I can deposit some of that in the Thai bank if I want to.

ACH/SWIFT transfers are definitely needed for big transfer/certain transfer of funds, but if a person is lucking enough to get a no-fee debit/ATM card, it ends up putting SWIFT/ACH transfer into your "backup" method of getting funds. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my application to another bank which also provide a no foreign transaction fee Visa card will be approved soon which will give me a backup card....then the ACH method will become backup to my backup debit card.

[jfchandler]

Ditto for me Pib... Clearly, as I know I've posted 1,000+ times now, a true no foreign currency fee, no VISA/MC card network fee U.S. ATM card -- used either at AEON ATMs or with a U.S. bank account that reimburses the Thai banks' 150 baht withdrawal fee -- is absolutely the most cost effective means of accessing funds here.... The rate via that method is always better than the Thai banks' buying TT rate used for wire xfers and incoming ACHs to BKKB.

I too have set up the various ACH transfer links in case they're ever needed.... But apart from testing them to make sure they work, I don't use them for accessing or managing my funds. As you said, just a backup option. And, the BKK Bank route is a good one, especially if one is needing to seed a larger deposit here such as with the 400,000 baht or 800,000 baht marriage-based or retirement-based extension of stay deposit requirements with Thai Immigration.

[Pib]

Yea, and just as an example, if I could magically accomplish a SWIFT/ACH real time (i.e., money arrives/posted to my Thai bank account in seconds Monday thru Sunday including holidays) and if I did such a transfer right now (Sunday afternoon) from one of my US banks to Bangkok Bank I would get an exchange rate of 29.78 baht per USD according to the Bangkok Bank exchange rate page. Of course there would be also be a receiving bank currency exchange fee of 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) and possibly a home country sending bank fee (a healthy fee if a SWIFT transfer). But in the real world I can't magically make a real time transfer happen with SWIFT/ACH; I need to wait at least a few business days for the money to arrive/get posted to my account and try to avoid bumping into Thai and home country holidays which could slow down the money arrival even more.

But if I did an ATM withdrawal using my Visa no foreign transaction fee debit card which also reimburses ATM fees if required (I always use an AEON ATM that doesn't charge any fee but I could use another bank's ATM and get reimbursed if I wanted to), I would get an exchange rate of 29.88 baht per USD according to the Visa Exchange Rates web page on this Sunday afternoon. Seems getting approx a 0.1 baht higher exchange rate compared to the TT rate is the norm based on my many withdrawals. No currency exchange fee applies like in a SWIFT/ACH transfer, no home county sending bank fees, no fees at all. And the money is immediately in my hand....and I can immediately get the money 24/7 versus only on business days. But the key to all of this is being lucky enough to have a debit/ATM card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee; unfortunately, most cards now days charge a 1 o 4% fee. And what is even more unfortunate, many people don't even know if their card charges a foreign tranaction fee and how much that fee is.

Yeap, getting your day-to-day living money via a no-fee ATM/debit card beats SWIFT/ACH money transfers in speed, exchange rate, fees,etc. That's why, like you, I pretty much have my ACH transfer links now setup for "backup" purposes and in case I need to get a BIG chunk of change within 2-3 business days (and hoping weekends and holidays don't turn those 2-3 business days into 4-5 or more calendar days.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Pib

[JimGant]

Bangkok Bank in Thailand also charges a fee of 0.25% of the amount in the Baht currency (minimum of THB 200; maximum of THB 500) when the funds are deposited into the recipientÆs Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.

Right. As I said, the .25% receiving-end fee is the same, whether or not the funds are wired, or sent via ACH (EFTS).

So, all that remains to compare is the front-end fees. And you say the $25 wire fee is somehow superior to paying a $10 ACH fee.

That's where my confusion comes in.......

I don't know for a fact that BB charges the .25% for receiving wires. I only quoted the fees from the ACH page and then only to answer your question "what am I missing ?"

My initial point to Jingthing was that you have to evaluate how much and how often you are going to use the EFTS versus wires, ergo In My Humble Opinion

Ok, understood -- a single wire, at some point, is more cost-effective than several ACH transfers. (And, yes, the .25% fee also applies to wire transfers.)

That is why I always wire $10,040 from E*trade, $25 for the wire, and $15 for someone along the chain

So, in your example, a single wire is equivalent in cost to 4 ACH transfers -- and superior to 5.

For some scenarios, that's good to know.

[JimGant]

If you initiate direct debit or ACH debit transactions to Bangkok Bank's New York branch, banks in the US and online payment service providers may suspend your account.

That's an interesting warning from the BB website. And to me it says that mechanically you can "pull" money from Thailand -- but that BB warns you not to do so. ( And it also begs the questions, should it be mechanically doable: would baht be converted to dollars on the Thai side; what fees are involved; will it be SWIFT encoded on the Thai side?)

The following quote is from the Virginia tax website. It sounds similar to BB's warning:

Internaltional ACH Transactions:

New federal banking regulations have imposed additional reporting requirements on all electronic banking transactions that directly involve a financial institution outside of the territorial jurisdiction of the United States at any point in the process. These are called International ACH Transactions (IAT). At present, TAX does not suppport IAT. If an international transaction is processed by TAX as a domestic transaction, it may be rejected by your bank, subjecting you to late penalties. By instructing TAX to process your electronic banking transaction, you are certifying that your transaction does not directly involve a financial institution outside of the territorial jurisdiction of the United States at any point in the process. If your transaction is IAT, you will need to make a payment by check

Again, sounds like the system accommodates "pulls" from abroad, into the ACH system. But, Virginia's online TAX payment system has yet to put the required safeguards in place relative to IATs.

Same with "pulls" through Bangkok Bank NY? Or, maybe Bangkok Bank *does* have the safeguards -- but doesn't endorse the ability to easily suck money from Thailand to the US....

Dunno. As I said, I was only allowed the "push" option for transfers between USAA and BB. But PIB can "push" and "pull."

But no, I'm not going to attempt a pull because I know it won't work because Bangkok Bank will block a pull.

Check it out, PIB.

[Langsuan Man]

So, in your example, a single wire is equivalent in cost to 4 ACH transfers -- and superior to 5.

For some scenarios, that's good to know.

Only coincidentally did my example work out. It was not posted as an example of EFTS versus SWIFT wires, but in response to wildoates statement that he did not pay any fees to SCB for wires

That is why I always wire $10,040 from E*trade, $25 for the wire, and $15 for someone along the chain

[Pib]

Jim,

Not me...as mentioned before, I'm sure Bangkok Bank would block it, just send a reject/no-can-do message to the U.S. bank that attempted the pull. Plus, I don't keep no more money in Thailand than I have to so I don't want to pull out any of what little bit I keep in my Thai bank accounts. And yeap, I use the embassy income letter for the yearly retirement extension of stay. Someday I may change to using the 800,000 baht in Thai bank method, but for now that $50 cost for an income letter from the U.S. Embassy is more than offset by the higher interest I get my keeping my money in the U.S., not to mentioned increase security, flexibiliy, and FDIC insurance coverage for my money.

I've noticed over the last few years in setting up trial deposits that the great majority of time when the U.S. bank sends the trial deposits, it is shortly followed by a transaction to pull back the exact amounts of the deposits. I see that happen whenever setting up a U.S. bank to U.S. bank link. Say 50 cents worth of trial deposits are then followed the same day by a 50 cent worth of funds pull. But in the multiple times I've setup ACH links from my various U.S. banks to Bangkok Bank "only" the trial deposits appear on my Bangkok Bank account record and my U.S. bank account record; nothing on either record showing the deposits were pulled back, no email messages regarding a reject has occurred, etc. I expect the U.S. bank did generate an ACH transaction to pull the trial deposits back, but Bangkok Bank rejected it with some standard phrase of why they rejected it. Then again, maybe some U.S. banks already know that for some countries, such as Thailand which has a U.S. banking system presence like Bangkok Bank NY, an ACH pull will be rejected and not even attempted. And at the same time it's not worth the time and money in trying to program their customer online banking systems to reflect such restrictions...just one of those things they handle on a case-by-case/manual basis...and have built into their business model in terms of X-amount of trial deposits will not be recovered. I expect other Thai banks that can interface with the ACH system operate the same way in rejecting ACH pulls since they are complying with Bank of Thailand rules to make it harder than heck to get money out of Thailand using certain methods.

But if someday, the Bank of Thailand loosens up its rules on transferring/pulling money out of Thailand (I'm not holding my breathe) via methods such as an ACH pull, I will be ready with my ACH Push & Pull links. But as mentioned, I really don't keep that much money in my Thai bank accounts...a scammer breaking into my accounts would be greatly disappointed in their take. I now rely on my no-fee U.S. Visa debit card as my primary means to get day-to-day living money, and ACH as a backup/for infrequent large amount transfers.

Cheers,

Pib.