Really Old People

[Johnny Dee Rock]

Facts:

Mom is 83, Dad is 82

They both have medical conditions which can be treated in Thailand

My mom can not walk. She is wheelchair bound.

Income for Dad is just under the 65,000 baht per month

Income for mom is negligible

Assets combined is well over the 800,000 baht times 2

I am currently back in the States and if I leave, my parents will be forced into a Nursing home. They don't want it and I don't want it, but I can't stay here. I have a wife and child in Thailand and we all want to be in Thailand. Everyone will be happy if I can figure out a way to do retirement visas without having to run them all over Thailand for extensions.

Does anyone have similar experience or any ideas?

[lopburi3]

How are they going to pay for medical treatment here in Thailand? If they only have assets outlined by you one short hospital stay could wipe them out. And then what future will they have? Medicare, nursing home, hospice, assisted care and such are not available to them here without payment so if they do not have good private insurance that will cover them overseas (for more than a trip) I would be very careful. You also will have a family here to support (how?) so can you really afford to do it all? Not to mention the culture shock if they do not have overseas living experience. But that is your and family decision but urge you to think closely if this would be better than the alternative (where at least they would have people they could socialize with).

Visa would probably not be too much of a problem as 800k in a bank account would get father a retirement visa and wife could come in as spouse and the only requirement would be yearly extensions at an immigration office and the 90 day reporting of address (which anyone can do and can be by mail).

[kandt]

Johny Dee Rock,

I don't have a similar experience but maybe some comments. Your parents are much better off in LOS than in the States, considering their condition you're implying. You mentioned that you have a wife and child in Thailand, which, from my perspective indicate some Thai family around, who may assists?

However, your Dad's income of Baht 65,000 is just short of the annual requirement of Baht 800,000. This will require that someone is depositing into their bank account, min Baht 20,000 per year. Your Dads income must be documentable, i.e annual pension statement, company statement or similar, which has to be tranlated into Thai. Similar to the marriage certificate.

It is not that diifficult, it takes a little time the first time around but then it becomes routine. Make sure they enter on a proper visa like non-immigrant "O", and if you lock into the nearest Thai consulate web-site in the States, all the information is available there. Depending on your location in Thailand, some flexibility may be applied by the immigration officers! I am sure your wife can figure that out.

I hope it works out for you and your parents.

Cheers......kandt

[lopburi3]

You need 800k in a bank account (which poster says is available) or 65k pension or a combination. You do not need 65k income and any that you have only has to be so stated in a notarized letter from the US Embassy in English that you sign to be used for extension of stay. There is no requirement that 800k must be spent each year.

[sbk]

Wow, tough one.

The trip is long and arduous. You don't say what part of the US you are in but remember how hard the trip out was for you, now imagine that for your parents.

Lopburi, medical care in the US is not guaranteed if you don't have good insurance anymore these days. Bush's social security/medicare reforms are a joke and many seniors are buying their meds from Canada because they can no longer afford them in the US.

For me, it would depend on where you are going to be living in Thailand. Are good medical facilities really really close? Remember there are no EMT's here. Also, it seems you should check and double check with the Thai embassy and perhaps get someone here to check with Immigration for you as well. Make sure your parents meet all requirements. I can think of no worse nightmare than your parents having to do a visa run!

[lopburi3]

There is a great deal free or close to free for seniors but they have to be poor to get into those programs which may mean spending down - but the support net is still there. For those that plan to leave money to children this may not be an option but if the children are willing to forgo the cash the parents can be well cared for.

[sbk]

True but they have to be really poor. My parents are typical, middle class but rapidly spending what money they do have on medical bills.

[lopburi3]

As we say they have to make the decision taking everything into consideration. We don't know travel history of family but I do fear uprooting most people of that age with no social circle. But they may be people who could adjust well and it seems to be their idea. And if they have a medical insurance plan that would pay here that would be a big plus in my mind. The job of OP would also be a consideration for me as most here with wife and young child do not have much security or income.

[sbk]

Absolutely lop. I can't argue with you there. I have tried to talk my parents into moving to the coast (dad has emphysema and the high altitude is quite literally slowly killing him) but he doesn't want to move and leave all his friends. He then pointed out to me what if he died, then she would be there all alone and they would have moved for nothing. Can't argue with that. Ultimately, it has to be his parents' decision. A move halfway round the world may be more traumatic than a nursing home.

[Johnny Dee Rock]

Thanks for the replies. Let me clarify. I have lived in Thailand for 6 years and I know all about medical costs etc. A job is not a problem for me. I have many connections in the teaching trade and I have worked for a govt school.

" How are they going to pay for medical treatment here in Thailand? If they only have assets outlined by you one short hospital stay could wipe them out. And then what future will they have? Medicare, nursing home, hospice, assisted care and such are not available to them here without payment so if they do not have good private insurance that will cover them overseas (for more than a trip) I would be very careful. You also will have a family here to support (how?) so can you really afford to do it all? Not to mention the culture shock if they do not have overseas living experience. But that is your and family decision but urge you to think closely if this would be better than the alternative (where at least they would have people they could socialize with). "

Medical treatment is cheap. They do not care to recieve any expensive medical treatment. They have "do not recussitate" orders here in the U.S Their only choice here in America is to go into a nursing home. Hospice, assisted care, etc are not an option for them. They have no social circle. All of their friends and same age relatives are dead. They spend 99% of their time in the house - sleeping and watching TV. Our only concern is dragging them around Thailand to comply with the visa requirements. As for me - I have been on an "O" extension for 5 years. I have money in the bank.

In Thailand, my parents would have my wife and daughter around them in the house plus any servants I decide to hire to care for them. So, my question is not about the medical or social end. It is about the visa process.

[bakachan]

if the heat and air quality of thailand compounds their current health problems

ide say no don't bring them. to get the best available healthcare you would need to

be close to bangkok right?

for health insurance, i think the age cutoff

for bupa is 70. there may be other insurance companies willing to take someone over

70 but its going to be pricey.

i dont know what state they live in but i do know in california they have a program

that allows them to stay in their house and someone comes daily to do housecleaning and cooks meals, takes them to the doctor. they even pay relatives to do this work.

there are lots of assisted living arrangements available to them depending on the state.

there are ways of hiding money from the govt. try it, what have you got to lose?

they dont throw 82 yr olds in prison

[sbk]

Fair enough then, do as suggested, contact both the embassy and Immigration here in thailand, and get in writing if at all possible, the exact requirements they will need to fulfill. And make sure they don't need to do a visa run, ever.

[Heng]

Facts:

        Mom is 83, Dad is 82

        They both have medical conditions which can be treated in Thailand

        My mom can not walk.  She is wheelchair bound.

        Income for Dad is just under the 65,000 baht per month

        Income for mom is negligible

        Assets combined is well over the 800,000 baht times 2

I am currently back in the States and if I leave, my parents will be forced into a Nursing home.  They don't want it and I don't want it, but  I can't stay here.  I have a wife and child in Thailand and we all want to be in Thailand.  Everyone will be happy if I can figure out a way to do retirement visas without having to run them all over Thailand for extensions.

Does anyone have similar experience or any ideas?

Haven't had to hire a full time nurse for my folks yet (they're both only in their early 60's), but I'm glad I'm going to be doing it in Thailand when they lose the ability to take care of themselves. 1,200 to 1,500 per 8 hour shift (day or night). You'd be lucky to get that rate per 2-3 hours in the west. Hiring a helper/orderly who can monitor IV drip stuff, help them go to the bathroom, sponge bath, etc. is only 500 Baht per shift.

Not to mention with the relatively inexpensive labor costs for construction in Thailand, you can pretty much redesign any house to be elderly friendly (ramps, extra wide stairs/steps, perhaps even put in an elevator if you live in a commercial building) without much thought to the costs.

[Johnny Dee Rock]

I think that Heng gets the idea. The goal is not "the best available" healthcare.

The goal is to get their daily needs of living taken care of. They don't even need in home nursing care on an ongoing basis. I think that some posters are under the illusion that the healthcare system for average people in the U.S. (Florida) is superior. It isn't. In Florida, the doctors are only concerned with adjusting the patients chemicals and setting the next appointment for their medicare factory. My parents cardiologist is an Indian guy who has advised both of them to go with me to Thailand. The cost of an in home aide is $18hr. Monthly cost for live in care would be 600,000 baht per month. I can hire someone in Thailand for no more than 10,000.

These are their choices:

Live in care (24 x 7) - $15,000 per month

Nursing home - Minimum $8000 per month

Thailand - Maybe $500 per month

In addition, they get to live with their son and family in Thailand where they would be made comfortable while waiting to die. Their estate would be fairly intact. I would have direct control over their care rather than a health care system that is controlled by lawyers and bureaucrats.

[Nam Kao]

I asked my wife about nursing homes when i am old

She assured me i'd die horrorifically in a soi/motocy accident long before

old age sets in

Gotta love these girls

[lopburi3]

I am not trying to argue with you and was only attempting to point out some factors some people might not have considered. I did try to provide the visa information in my post also.

As for the cost of care I agree completely that it would be cheaper here if special medications/procedures are not required - but - and a big but - is the long term cost. In the US you can normally continue in the same care facility after your money runs out by assignment of SS to the nursing home.

As has been pointed out be sure they have a least a real tourist visa but if you have a chance it would be best to obtain a single entry non immigrant O. Once here they can extend for retirement. They could obtain the O-A type but would probably need your help as that requires a police report and medical certificate - but it would provide a full year upon entry.

[Bobcat]

This is a no-brainer as far as I am concerned. Bring your parents to Thailand. They will have their son, their grand-daughter and lots of love and caring. Don't stick them in a nursing home.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

This is a no-brainer as far as I am concerned.  Bring your parents to Thailand.  They will have their son, their grand-daughter and lots of love and caring.  Don't stick them in a nursing home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree

[camerata]

I asked my wife about nursing homes when i am old

  She assured me i'd die horrorifically in a soi/motocy accident long before

old age sets in

Or not die. A few weeks ago in Samitivej physiotherapy section there was a youngish farang guy learning to walk. He couldn't move properly and couldn't speak properly due to brain damage suffered in a motorcycle accident in Phuket. He was crying the whole time.

And apparently he's not the first to arrive in that condition after a bike accident.

[sbk]

lopburi, a medical certificate? Do they have requirements that must be met in order to receive a retirement visa? Like, if you are clearly very ill then no way or is more just a basic physical and AIDS test?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

lopburi, a medical certificate? Do they have requirements that must be met in order to receive a retirement visa? Like, if you are clearly very ill then no way or is more just a basic physical and AIDS test?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to answer for my friend Lop, but the Q was there.). There are no further medical checks beyond those required fo a 50 year old person. At around 100 baht from a hospital, Mayo Clinic it ain't. Let the old folks ultimately pass on with caring family about.

[lopburi3]

lopburi, a medical certificate? Do they have requirements that must be met in order to receive a retirement visa? Like, if you are clearly very ill then no way or is more just a basic physical and AIDS test?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pro forma not have listed disease rather than a physical.

The Health Certificate must indicate that the applicant does not have the following serious diseases:

Leprosy

Turberculosis, TB

Elaphantiasis, Filariesis

Addiction, drug

Alcoholism

Syphilis

Will add this as you are not allowed any visa to Thailand if mentally unstable.

Being mentally unstable or having any of the diseases as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

Edited October 6, 2005 by lopburi3

[Guest RealEstateBroker]

Facts:

        Mom is 83, Dad is 82

        They both have medical conditions which can be treated in Thailand

        My mom can not walk.  She is wheelchair bound.

        Income for Dad is just under the 65,000 baht per month

        Income for mom is negligible

        Assets combined is well over the 800,000 baht times 2

I am currently back in the States and if I leave, my parents will be forced into a Nursing home.  They don't want it and I don't want it, but  I can't stay here.  I have a wife and child in Thailand and we all want to be in Thailand.  Everyone will be happy if I can figure out a way to do retirement visas without having to run them all over Thailand for extensions.

Does anyone have similar experience or any ideas?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aloha, I have been working on opening a community for older folks for several years now. Started off with a location on Samui, after alot of feed back we are now

"close" to a great location in Pattaya. Pattaya is perfect for many reasons, easy from the new airport, cost of everything much more affordable than BKK or Samui

and the future ease of paperwork for older retirement folks from what we understand. Our concept seems to match your needs. We currently can not accept

any pre-reservations because of Thailand regulations, which I agree with because of past foreign acceptance of money to insure placement that did not happen.

Our concept is for folks over 60, either male or female from English speaking backgrounds but open to anyone from any background ! As a example we have

12 males from USA/England/Australia, 4 females from USA/Australia and 2 females from Thailand. All these folks are over 65 so far.

PM me for more. Thanks