Rubber Trees

[jamescollister]

...we used only good plants and fertilizer so far ...its just that this type of fertilizer was recommended to us as the trees we have are out growing trees beside us that were planted 2 years earlier ...also the land we have the trees on is good quality soil ...at 990 baht per bag delivered i wouldnt call it cheap stuff really ..i suppose different lands and soils plus climate in different areas differ from place to place ..anyway we didnt decide to buy this fertilizer yet ..its just a suggestion so far ..ill keep ye posted on the progress ..cheeers for info jim

Barry the bat poo salesman was in the village last week, 450 Baht for a 50 kilo bag. Again all these things are somewhat of a con as you really don't know what's in the bag. They tell you it's magic stuff, but for all I know it has never seen a bat. Jim

[barrybike]

...we used only good plants and fertilizer so far ...its just that this type of fertilizer was recommended to us as the trees we have are out growing trees beside us that were planted 2 years earlier ...also the land we have the trees on is good quality soil ...at 990 baht per bag delivered i wouldnt call it cheap stuff really ..i suppose different lands and soils plus climate in different areas differ from place to place ..anyway we didnt decide to buy this fertilizer yet ..its just a suggestion so far ..ill keep ye posted on the progress ..cheeers for info jim

Barry the bat poo salesman was in the village last week, 450 Baht for a 50 kilo bag. Again all these things are somewhat of a con as you really don't know what's in the bag. They tell you it's magic stuff, but for all I know it has never seen a bat. Jim

just checked with the wife jim ..360 baht for the 50 kg bag delivered i made a mistake ..the fertilizer we use is 950 ...990 delivered ....im not sure if its all bat shit in that stuff ..i still have to see but its being sold as organic fertilizer, specific for rubber trees ..its not made in a backyard some where ,,they have a company in saraburi .....its gone very popular with southern thailand rubber farmers ..its 310 from the factory collected yourself or delivered 360 in north areas ...down south they are paying 400 baht for it .... barry

[Mark1971]

I managed to translate some information on the latest Malaysian Rubber tree clones.

Hope it is useful, if anyone decides to use these trees it would be great if you could update with the progress.

Latex / Rai / year.

Wood tons / acre / 15 years.

PB 260.

347.

39.2.

PB 355

420.

117.

PB 350.

442.

56.

PB 359.

378.

68.

RRIM 937.

397.

26.

RRIM 938.

366.

...

RRIM 928.

499.

42.7.

RRIM 940.

324.

...

RRIM 929.

502.

69.

RRIM 2001.

456.

71.

RRIM 2002.

375.

63.

RRIM 2003.

451.

...

RRIM 2025.

432.

108.

RRIM 2027.

485.

75.

RRIM 3001.

512.

120.

RRIM 2025, RRIM3001 had a girth of 50-60cm, 1.5 meters from the ground and can therefore be tapped for latex at 4 years of age.

RRIM3001 can yield over 500 kg / Rai / year if well-maintained.

The rubber is perfect.

The disease immune system, tolerance to hot weather & drought is better than other varieties.

Source information.

http://sites.google..../yangthai18/aaa

[jamescollister]

I managed to translate some information on the latest Malaysian Rubber tree clones.

Hope it is useful, if anyone decides to use these trees it would be great if you could update with the progress.

Latex / Rai / year.

Wood tons / acre / 15 years.

PB 260.

347.

39.2.

PB 355

420.

117.

PB 350.

442.

56.

PB 359.

378.

68.

RRIM 937.

397.

26.

RRIM 938.

366.

...

RRIM 928.

499.

42.7.

RRIM 940.

324.

...

RRIM 929.

502.

69.

RRIM 2001.

456.

71.

RRIM 2002.

375.

63.

RRIM 2003.

451.

...

RRIM 2025.

432.

108.

RRIM 2027.

485.

75.

RRIM 3001.

512.

120.

RRIM 2025, RRIM3001 had a girth of 50-60cm, 1.5 meters from the ground and can therefore be tapped for latex at 4 years of age.

RRIM3001 can yield over 500 kg / Rai / year if well-maintained.

The rubber is perfect.

The disease immune system, tolerance to hot weather & drought is better than other varieties.

Source information.

http://sites.google..../yangthai18/aaa

Hi Mark, think you are a bit of an internet whiz, hope you stay on the forum as it appears you can find things out. Jim

[petewan]

Hi all well heres my bit, don't know if it is worth much and my skills as a technical writer leave a lot to be desired. Anyway when the next newbie asks he can at least get a rough idea as to what is involved. Jim

RUBBER 101 FOR BEGINERS a rough guide

First requirement is land, on which to plant. Rubber is a jungle tree and likes rain, but does not like wet ground. So rice paddies, swamps, marshes and flood plains are generally not suitable for rubber. Measures can be taken to utilise this type of land, but the long term cost will be prohibitive.

Ideally gently sloping land, that does not flood. As I am from Issan this is the area that I know. Here rubber is planted along the Cambodia, Lao border, near the mountains and Mekong river. Inland areas are just too dry for long periods of the year. Again measures can be taken, irrigation etc, but long term costs have to be looked at.

Now we have found our bit of rubber tree heaven and want to prepare the land for trees. Remember that in 7 or 8 years men will be staggering around in the dead of night tripping over old stumps. rocks and falling in holes. Level the ground as best you can and if you have access to animal manure [which includes septic sam the toilet man] plough it in to the ground. Put up your fences, don't want cattle and water buffalo wandering around and standing on or eating your young trees. Build a workers hut, the nicer the better. Workers and you may spend a lot of time there over the coming years. Be comfortable after all a cold beer with your workers, swinging in your hammock at the end off a hot day of grass cutting is one of the better moments and will help to bond you with the locals.

THE TREES

Which type of tree [clone] for you.

RIMM 600 your basic tried and tested rubber tree, grown throughout Thailand.

RIMM 251 a better rubber producer, twice as much as the 600, but with all things has some draw backs. Shorter life, less lumber value and worst of all, fall over in the wind. Not suitable for coastal regions or windy areas.

JVP80 New tree type and I know nothing about the pros and cons for it. Allegedly tappable after 5 years. Think the jury is still out.

Best advice go to the Government Agriculture Office for your district and ask what's best in your area. That's what these guys are paid to do, give advise. They may not be the smartest people in the world, but they will know what's doing well and what's not.

BUYING OR GROWING TREES.

To buy from a nursery or grow your own, that is the question.

If you are going the nursery way, do your home work and find the place with the best reputation, not the wifes 2nd. cousin, who started a nursery last week. I would not go the way of ordering and placing a deposit. If the nursery can get a better price they will sell the good trees and you will be left with what is left. It may cost more ,but just pay the price when you need them and get the good trees.

Personally I favour making your own nursery. It is not difficult or costly, just time consuming, but you will get trees that you know have been cared for.

THE BIG MOMENT PLANTING

Much debate has gone on about spacing and number of trees per Rai. For this we will stick to the Governments recommendation. 76 trees per Rai, 3 metres between trees and 7 metres between rows.

Mark out your land for the trees and await the rains. You want your trees in the ground as soon as possible, but not too early as the rain may stop and your trees start dying. Much of the timing will depend on where you are. The lack of rain [water ] will be your biggest enemy in the first 12 months. If you have the money buy a water tank on wheels and a good tractor to pull it. I being a poor man used a 2 wheeled rice tractor with 4 100 litre drums on the trailer.

Labour will be a problem, as planting falls at around the Cassava and rice planting times, most people will be busy on there own land. What you can do is pay by the hole and they will come and go as they see fit.

Holes should be 1 metre in diameter and 1/2 a metre deep, so as to form an earthen bowl. Check the hole sizes or they will get progressively smaller as time goes by. Just get 2/ 1 metre sticks make a cross and tie a 1/2 metre string with weight to it. Easy and fast to check.

When planting the trees remove them from the plastic bag, tickle out the roots and plant them. They are a very hardy tree and you don't have to be gentle. Water in if necessary ,

the hole my be half full of rain water already.

When all the plantings done have a party for the workers. You are now a planter.

PART 2 THE LONG HAUL

Now that the excitement of starting has waned and the family are not getting new toys, pickup trucks, tractors, scrub cutters etc You need a foreman, you maybe blessed by having an in-law who is hard working, loyal and given up all worldly greed, if not you need to be there to make sure what you pay for gets done.

FERTILISER

I won't go into too much depth on this subject as best practice changes as Agriculture researchers refine and learn better ways. Common practice for most Thais is one 50 kilo bag per Rai twice a year. The area around the tree is roughed up and the fertiliser is sprinkled around, then rice chaff or grass is place over the area to stop the fertiliser blowing or washing away. This method works fine, but is not best practice.

Here again we want our friend the local Agriculture advisers help. He can give you a booklet on the best method at the time. Which is currently the 3 hole varying amount and fertiliser type. The plan is worked out for the age of the tree and will save you money, as well as give you trees a little added help.

FIRE and WEED CONTROL

You have now entered into an on going war with grass and weeds, if not controlled they will out grow your trees and in the dry season will become a very serious fire hazard. Plough the field a least twice a year for the first 2 years. This not only keeps the weeds down, but allows the soil to soak up water. Scrub cutters [weed wackers] will be constantly on the go and you will need to poison. All it takes is one ember from someone burning off his rice stubble and all your work can go up in smoke.

BUGS MOULDS DESEASE and BANCHES

One of the constant on going jobs will be removing the small branches that grow on your trees. You only want the top branches, all others that grow from the trunk need to be removed. A small pair of side cutters will be your companion for a few years. Branches are removed to the 3 metre high mark. While doing your branch patrol you will see if a tree is having problems or has died. Dead trees can be replaced the next planting time for the first 2 maybe 3 years, after which the canopy of the existing trees will stop new trees growing. If you are smart you will have kept a percentage of your original trees and potted them [bigger grow bags] then you can replace dead or under preforming trees with healthy strong trees of the same age.

Other problems such as termites, moulds and diseases which may occur, will be seen on your branch patrols. Now just like our pig farmers you don't have to be a vet to know your pigs are sick. Same with your trees, if something is wrong hire an expert, you are the manager and your job is to manage.

TAPPING TIME HAS COME

The years have passed, your money and hair have gone, but you have made it to those magic numbers. 7 years old, 46 cm in circumference 1 metre from the ground. In reality after all the years you will be taking no notice of these numbers and will tap by tree condition, but for now we will stick to the generic numbers.

First problem tappers. Good tappers are hard to find. A good tapper will take a shaving of bark so fine that it will float to the ground like a feather. He will not touch the wood of the tree and latex will flow. A bad or inexperienced tapper will take a slice of bark with some tree wood and hurt the tree. Moral of this story is a good tapper us worth his weight in rubber, take care of him, it will pay in the long run.

Tapping schedule

Basic rule tap 2 rest 1. Many Thais will tap 3 rest 1. By this stage you should know what's best for your trees. If a tree stops growing or starts to struggle stop tapping and let the tree rest.

That's about it, now all you need to do is decide, liquid latex, cup or sheet. The rest is just sit in your comfortable tappers hut watching your workers toil in the hot sun, while you drink cold beer and think of your friends back home doing the 9 to 5 grind.

Thank you Jim for a getting to the nitty gritty for those of us that know nothing about rubber tree growing. I have been in thailand 7 year now .i am married with a three year old son and my wife has 2 plots of land one 40 rye and one 7 rye which she wants to use to grow rubber. The problem is she thinks that she can plant the tree s and let her friend who rents the land at present to grow veg and the like

carry on and plant between the tree s. I thought she wanted to live there ,a seven hour drive from our present home but no she thinks

we can just visit a couple of days at a time to see all is well. I now have a better understanding after reading your post and can point out the impractabilyty of her idea of a part time rubber farmer. I was quiet willing to move which i thought was the intension but i am not willing to trust her friend to look after things . thanks again pete ...

[kwonitoy]

Mark, interesting stuff you've posted. I wonder where inThailand one would find some of these 2025 or 3001 clones, it gets more difficult just to find an adequite supply of RIM600 to plant each year.

Well it' been a "difficult" year to say the least, July brought Nock-Ten to knock down my trees, biblical amounts of rain following that an now the price of rubber goes for #hit. Quite a start to my first tapping season.

But the first sale in Sept yielded about 70kg and the last two week period produced 135kg. There are a lot more trees to open up next year and lots of younger ones to keep care of, so production will only go up, hopefully the price per kg will also go up as well.

Ken

[Mark1971]

Due to their higher labour costs Malaysia has been forced to rethink the economics of Rubber trees.

Unlike Thailand where the focus is on increasing the latex yield, they have given equal importance to increasing the timber yield.

They refer to their latest trees as latex / timber clones.

I tried to make a quick economic calculation to evaluate the benefit.

Rubber wood log price. US$ 47 - US$ 81 / m³

(These figures come from a Malaysian website, if anyone knows the Thai values please update).

RRIM 600. 0.42 m³ timber per tree at 21 Years = $19 - $34 per tree x 80 / Rai = $1,579 - $2,721 / Rai.

RRIM 3001 2 m³ timber per tree at 15 Years = $94 - $162 per tree x 80 / Rai = $7,520 - $12,960 / Rai.

[jamescollister]

Due to their higher labour costs Malaysia has been forced to rethink the economics of Rubber trees.

Unlike Thailand where the focus is on increasing the latex yield, they have given equal importance to increasing the timber yield.

They refer to their latest trees as latex / timber clones.

I tried to make a quick economic calculation to evaluate the benefit.

Rubber wood log price. US$ 47 - US$ 81 / m³

(These figures come from a Malaysian website, if anyone knows the Thai values please update).

RRIM 600. 0.42 m³ timber per tree at 21 Years = $19 - $34 per tree x 80 / Rai = $1,579 - $2,721 / Rai.

RRIM 3001 2 m³ timber per tree at 15 Years = $94 - $162 per tree x 80 / Rai = $7,520 - $12,960 / Rai.

Your good Mark, not only are you getting the facts, but are answering questions from other threads. We had a discussion lumber value ot rubber trees.

[kolohe]

Awesome work Mark, thanks for posting. I am guessing those lumber prices are retail and does not take into account all the middle men and lumber harvesters taking their cut. Has anyone here sold lumber recently? What was the going rate in your area? Kind of curious.

k

[Mark1971]

Awesome work Mark, thanks for posting. I am guessing those lumber prices are retail and does not take into account all the middle men and lumber harvesters taking their cut. Has anyone here sold lumber recently? What was the going rate in your area? Kind of curious.

k

Thanks Kolohe,

My information came from the following website.

http://worldtimber.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/malaysia-rubberwood-clones-forest-plantation-log-prices/

The price is for logs, but it is unclear at which point of the value chain this is & what deductions need to be made.

What is really suprising is the massive difference in useable timber between the RRIM600 and the RRIM3001.

On the same site they are quoting Merbau log values of US$319 - US$352 per m 3.

If these values are realistic it might also be worth planting some Merbau for the future timber value.

I am still living & working in the UK so all my information is from the Internet.

If you are on the ground in Thailand, please feel free to challenge or update any of the numbers I quote based upon the actual figures in Thailand.

[Ireyannie]

i'm new here, sorry if i posted in a wrong topic. my company is located in Malaysia and we are really in need more than a 500 metric tonne of dried rubber cup lump for our processing factory here. can anyone please consult me on how and what should i do if i need to purchase this product from thailand. any respond and reply will be much appriciated. thank you.

[jamescollister]

i'm new here, sorry if i posted in a wrong topic. my company is located in Malaysia and we are really in need more than a 500 metric tonne of dried rubber cup lump for our processing factory here. can anyone please consult me on how and what should i do if i need to purchase this product from thailand. any respond and reply will be much appriciated. thank you.

Don't really follow your question, rubber prices are international, you will pay the same for it in Malaysia as you will in Thailand. Then you have to export it. Think what you are really asking is anyone selling cheap rubber, no they are not. If you want to set up buying straight from the plantations and front the cash and arrange the transport to Malaysia, I have a buyers license. PM me if that's what you are looking at. Jim

[babbo]

i'm new here, sorry if i posted in a wrong topic. my company is located in Malaysia and we are really in need more than a 500 metric tonne of dried rubber cup lump for our processing factory here. can anyone please consult me on how and what should i do if i need to purchase this product from thailand. any respond and reply will be much appriciated. thank you.

Don't really follow your question, rubber prices are international, you will pay the same for it in Malaysia as you will in Thailand. Then you have to export it. Think what you are really asking is anyone selling cheap rubber, no they are not. If you want to set up buying straight from the plantations and front the cash and arrange the transport to Malaysia, I have a buyers license. PM me if that's what you are looking at. Jim

I spent a month helping my TGF and family farming up their rubber in Buri Ram, south east not too far from Lahan Sai.

Interesting experience to get amongst it and experience how it all works first hand and to get my hands dirty!

To come will be pictures and videos with basic first hand statistics based on the experience of a village that is predominantly growing on the loins of the rubber trees....

Needless to say, with aged trees, the right cutting technique, the right attitude and matching weather, one can do quite well from the ever growing rubber industry!

Working at night amongst the trees and lights is also a pretty relaxing experience and a welcomed change from the 'big smoke'....

[cdmtdm]

great you enjoyed it , just got back from Pon Pisai same experience as you loved it ....

i'm new here, sorry if i posted in a wrong topic. my company is located in Malaysia and we are really in need more than a 500 metric tonne of dried rubber cup lump for our processing factory here. can anyone please consult me on how and what should i do if i need to purchase this product from thailand. any respond and reply will be much appriciated. thank you.

Don't really follow your question, rubber prices are international, you will pay the same for it in Malaysia as you will in Thailand. Then you have to export it. Think what you are really asking is anyone selling cheap rubber, no they are not. If you want to set up buying straight from the plantations and front the cash and arrange the transport to Malaysia, I have a buyers license. PM me if that's what you are looking at. Jim

I spent a month helping my TGF and family farming up their rubber in Buri Ram, south east not too far from Lahan Sai.

Interesting experience to get amongst it and experience how it all works first hand and to get my hands dirty!

To come will be pictures and videos with basic first hand statistics based on the experience of a village that is predominantly growing on the loins of the rubber trees....

Needless to say, with aged trees, the right cutting technique, the right attitude and matching weather, one can do quite well from the ever growing rubber industry!

Working at night amongst the trees and lights is also a pretty relaxing experience and a welcomed change from the 'big smoke'....

[Mosha]

Just sold some today

Mats 87 Baht Kee Yang 52 Baht

[chang35baht]

Hi Mosha. Can I ask you How long after collecting did you sell your kee yang? Was it dry or did you sell it after 1 day for instance. I am just interested in comparing prices from your area and here in Chiang Rai.

Thanks in advance,

C35B.

[Mosha]

I had to ask the expert about this . Our Kee Yang is the "run off" after latex is collected in the morning. ie the bit that is still running out. So we try to sell 200 mats at a time, and usually get about 15Kg of Kee Yang with those 200 mats. So it will be quite dry. We are currently tapping about 800 trees, and if we get a good run get 20 - 22 mats per day tap 2 rest 1. As others not many good runs this year, and we are still getting rain in Ranong.

[kolohe]

I had to ask the expert about this . Our Kee Yang is the "run off" after latex is collected in the morning. ie the bit that is still running out. So we try to sell 200 mats at a time, and usually get about 15Kg of Kee Yang with those 200 mats. So it will be quite dry. We are currently tapping about 800 trees, and if we get a good run get 20 - 22 mats per day tap 2 rest 1. As others not many good runs this year, and we are still getting rain in Ranong.

Mosha,

Are those 800 trees you have all RM600?

k

[chang35baht]

I had to ask the expert about this . Our Kee Yang is the "run off" after latex is collected in the morning. ie the bit that is still running out. So we try to sell 200 mats at a time, and usually get about 15Kg of Kee Yang with those 200 mats. So it will be quite dry. We are currently tapping about 800 trees, and if we get a good run get 20 - 22 mats per day tap 2 rest 1. As others not many good runs this year, and we are still getting rain in Ranong.

Thanks for that mate.

Same cost up here for dry Kee yang. We are currently tapping 2 on 1 off also. Around 1300 trees. Only started tapping around 5 months ago and started 1 on 1 off but have changed now. We will not start making mats until after 1 year when the output increases a bit.

To be honest it is not easy finding someone here who will buy mats at the moment anyway. So hardly anyone is making them.

Regards C35B.

P.S. Ours are RM600.

[muratremix]

One quick question, is it possible to obtain trees like RRIM 3001 in Thailand for new plantation?

[RainGutter]

FYI, RRIM3001 a.k.a KT35/39

[jamescollister]

Just finished our monthly sale, had a private buyer pick up from the little factory. Not a bad month of production, 2700 kilos of RSS and got 90 Baht a kilo. We will be have a xmas at least. Jim

[cobbler]

Just finished our monthly sale, had a private buyer pick up from the little factory. Not a bad month of production, 2700 kilos of RSS and got 90 Baht a kilo. We will be have a xmas at least. Jim

Hi Jim,

Please forgive me.I'm new at this.Forum thing.We live at Bangsaphan.South of hua Hin.We have some yang here.Sounds great.You have some stang in your pocket now.What area do you live in.How many Rai do you have.?How old are they How many kilos a day do you get at this time of year?I hope you have the patients to answer me.

Regards, Cobbler

[jamescollister]

Just finished our monthly sale, had a private buyer pick up from the little factory. Not a bad month of production, 2700 kilos of RSS and got 90 Baht a kilo. We will be have a xmas at least. Jim

Hi Jim,

Please forgive me.I'm new at this.Forum thing.We live at Bangsaphan.South of hua Hin.We have some yang here.Sounds great.You have some stang in your pocket now.What area do you live in.How many Rai do you have.?How old are they How many kilos a day do you get at this time of year?I hope you have the patients to answer me.

Regards, Cobbler

All you ask is already in the thread, plus if you youtube my name you will find video. Jim

[cobbler]

Just finished our monthly sale, had a private buyer pick up from the little factory. Not a bad month of production, 2700 kilos of RSS and got 90 Baht a kilo. We will be have a xmas at least. Jim

Hi Jim,

Please forgive me.I'm new at this.Forum thing.We live at Bangsaphan.South of hua Hin.We have some yang here.Sounds great.You have some stang in your pocket now.What area do you live in.How many Rai do you have.?How old are they How many kilos a day do you get at this time of year?I hope you have the patients to answer me.

Regards, Cobbler

All you ask is already in the thread, plus if you youtube my name you will find video. Jim

Thanks for that.Also.Are there any other farang around the Bangsaphan area or close by?I'de be happy to get in contact with you,so we can compare things in general..

Cobbler

[Mosha]

Cobbler try your local forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/34-hua-hin-cha-am-forum/

[cobbler]

Cobbler try your local forum http://www.thaivisa....n-cha-am-forum/

Thanks a lot for that Mosha.Will check it out.NOW.I was in sales for 20 years in Australia and I talked to people for a living.Needed a rest from talking to people,but now I've been living here for 6 months am starting to think I'd like to chat with people who have similar interests as I do.

Regards Cobbler

[Mosha]

Merry Christmas folks, here's hoping we have more tapping days next year. Nearly the end of the year, and we are still getting a bit of the wet stuff.

[dezy1801]

Hi just wanted to know if anyone could give me an idea of how much money I would make from approximatly 2400 trees going by todays prices with sheet rubber.

Mrs and I have 36 rai of farm land with trees growing on them they are 4 and a half year old and are looked after by the Mrs brother and his wife.

Just really looking for some figures I have looked at some of the figures on the forum but I think I may be miss calculating.

Thanks in advance

dezy1801

[Mosha]

Tapping 800 trees and average 17 mats, would have been better but too many long gaps between tapping due to weather. Mats are a little over 1Kg. Clone is 251, Current price is about 87Baht.