Thaivisa In Singapore

[ALFREDO]

I had myself badly prepaired as I tried a Non Immigrant O. I am father of three Thaichildren aged 3,5-9 from two different mothers, all in my name.

I got last time a 60 day extention of stay from the Udon Thani Immigration for the reason that I support and live mostly with my children and their mother.

That time my GF and one child was with me at the Immigration in Udon.

But now in Singapore, the birthcertificate was not enough, I should have brought documentation that I have custody of the children or prove, that I support the boys financialy. Maybe more,

but the above, I was told.

So, it was a no, no and back to the Tourist Visa.

I have only one single entry Thai Tourist visa in my new Passport from Sept. 2010 (Vienna) entry TH, Dec.

I should now present a flight ticket out of Thailand during that 60 day Visa period.

That, I could not.

So, instead, I should show 1.000.- Sing. Dollar in cash.

I was so surprised, that I forgot, that including Thai Bath, I would have had that kind of money in my pocket.

But I remembered my bank book with slightly more than 100.000.-Baht on it. Last time printed 5.5.11

That was accepted.

Than I should show my fight ticket to Thailand on 15.5.

The date I stated in the form, I will come to TH.

To enforce tighter and harsher Visa rules on me, in my situation, is so wrong,

Sorry that I came to Singapore and that embassy.

I felt embarrassed, if that is the right word, thinking from all the money which sunk in two different Isaan family swamps in a decade and I paid into the Thai economy.

A red carpet would be more appropriate.

Edited May 12, 2011 by ALFREDO

[lopburi3]

Singapore is well known as being one of the least responsive Embassies in the area - likely second only to Manila. You would have received a visa to visit on the basis of birth certificate at most locations but actually a tourist visa provides that opportunity in any case. If you were attempting to obtain a multi entry non immigrant visa do not believe any local Consulate would have issued for visit reasons.

[Ianatlarge]

I cannot offer any help, but it sure does suck. You are doing the right thing--maybe more, and you get shafted. Best of luck with it all.

[ALFREDO]

-lopburi3-

I understand now that much more documentation is needed or/and have to go with my GF and my boy(s).

Actualy I live 80 % of the year in TH and with my children, nit inky visit, my last Passport, was full in less than two years, so.

What surprised me and let me feel sorry, is, that after all, they grilled me in that way, over a Tourist visa, which I make to live with my children and GF.

-Lanatlarge-

Thanks for your respond, you hit the nail.

Edited May 13, 2011 by ALFREDO

[dananderson]

I agree Lopburi and have posted here to that effect previously. I remember on a previous visit as I was leaving the embassy there was an unusually tall Asian male curled up on the ground at the RTE entry gate area screaming about what he believed was improper treatment there as a large crowd quickly gathered. That embassy has evolved from being freindly to curt and unhelpfull to say the least. I think that if enough people complain to the powers that be here, maybe it will generate a response. Get the RTE's staff workers name that was curt or offensive to you and include it in your complaint.

[ALFREDO]

-dananderson-

thank you for your helpful respond.

I have to say, the two ladys in my case had been just unfriendly, not enough, to think about a complaint.

There are many ways to say NO.

There are also many ways to question a Tourist visa.

Also, is it necessary that I got grilled about a simple Touristvisa when she has prove with a birthcertificate that I have a child and I told her I have two more.

And she had prove that, just 3 month ago, I was granted a 60 day extended stay for family reasons from the Udon Immigration.

Do the ladys think Udon Immi. Makes that move without reason?

Anyway, on top of that, all what was spoken was in an unfriendly ice cold atmosphere.

If that is the right word in english.

[guzzi850m2]

I am surprised by that. The last 2 years I have renewed my marriage non-O multi visa there and no problems what so ever. The Muslim woman at the counter have always been very friendly and business like.

I am going there in 2 month time for renewal again.

[TerryLH]

"There are also many ways to question a Tourist visa.

Also, is it necessary that I got grilled about a simple Touristvisa when she has prove with a birthcertificate that I have a child and I told her I have two more.

And she had prove that, just 3 month ago, I was granted a 60 day extended stay for family reasons from the Udon Immigration."

Maybe she didn't think you are really a tourist.

Perhaps she thought you should get the correct paperwork they require, and apply for a more appropriate visa for your situation.

[soihok]

Sorry to hear of your experience at the embassy here in Singapore Alfredo.

I have used the embassy for non imm o multi entry visa's ( 1 year ) twice and always found the staff there very helpful and friendly. Yes the muslim ladies. I have a marraige cert to show though as well as my name in my wifes tambian bahn ( children's father ), along with the childrens birth certs.

Perhaps you just caught someone having a bad day, unfortunately. Last time I applied though was 2009, so it sounds as if its going downhill.

It is worth noting that I have been able to show them a Singapore i.d. card as this is where I work ( at the moment ).

I think Lopburi3 will confirm that this is probably the difference.

[Mario2008]

The OP is not married, only mentioned on the birth certificate. I guess that makes all the difference, as you proofed that you were married. T

I guess you having an Singapore ID-card and working there is also helpful in getting a multiple non-O, most people only get a single non-O.

[lopburi3]

Maybe she didn't think you are really a tourist.

Perhaps she thought you should get the correct paperwork they require, and apply for a more appropriate visa for your situation.

OP clearly applied for the proper visa (with birth certificate proof) and was refused (Non Imm O). There is no requirement for custody to visit children and it is not listed as such on MFA website (- Birth Certificate ("O")). It was the Consulate that would only provide the tourist visa.

Yes those with Singapore Nationality or residence seem to receive better treatment.

[TerryLH]

LB3

"OP clearly applied for the proper visa (with birth certificate proof) and was refused (Non Imm O). There is no requirement for custody to visit children and it is not listed as such on MFA website (- Birth Certificate ("O"))."

I'll stand by my post:

"Perhaps she thought you should get the correct paperwork they require,..."

You know, better than most, that not all consulates have the same exact requirements, no matter what is posted as their rules.

The OP apparently didn't have what they wanted the day he was there.

They offered a TV, but because of what he was telling/showing them he is clearly not a tourist. In this case too much info was to his detriment,although you can argue that a few questions he didn't like really isn't very harmful, seeing as how he got the TV.

As far as his name on the birth certificate, haven't I read here, or maybe just hallucinating, that the BC alone isn't always enough and that it somehow needs to be legitimized?

[lopburi3]

That may be a requirement for one year extensions of stay if child is under age 7 - it is not normally a requirement of a Consulate issued visa or a 60 day extension of stay. Poster had what he expected to be the requirement and requested the proper visa so should not be chided for his actions on the tourist visa issue in my view.

[Mario2008]

An extension of stay based on children requires the child to be legitimized, when a chils id about 6 or 7 it can be done at the amphur. If younger normally a court decision is necesarry.

For a visa the birth certificate should be enough. Singapore is the first I have heard to require proof of legitimization.

[TerryLH]

"...so should not be chided for his actions on the tourist visa issue in my view."

I respect your view. You've earned it here.

Originally I was pointing out potential reasons why what occurred might have happened. No 'chiding' intended.

Since many people garner info from posts on this site, I thought maybe someone would benefit from the comments about 'too much info'.

If you look back, the OP was the one complaining about being questioned re a TV.

IMO, the birth certificate with a persons name on it should satisfy the question of parentage. The only reason I can think of for asking for further info is that the system was abused at some point. Fixing loopholes, as it were.

[Lite Beer]

Off Topic post deleted.

[tijnebijn]

Having two children myself I really am attached by Alfredo's story , and I

totally agree with lopburi that the Op applied for the proper visa , he wants to extend his stay in Thailand to take care of his children .

And exactly there lays the problem we foreigners have while being in Thailand , many always say we should always consider ourselves as guests etc , maybe we are , but at least for those who have their dna flooding in Thai citizens , shouldn't it be made easier for those to stay indefinitely as they and their children choose , Thailand is way of the curve on this one , and really is time to make a big change in immigration law in my opinion in these kind of unwillingness everything foreign , things look still far off .

Good luck to the Op , hope things will get easier and that your children can enjoy your company as long as your life may be .

Edited May 14, 2011 by tijnebijn

[ALFREDO]

Thank you very much for so many responds, mostly friendly.

I have to say, that I did not call the Singapore Embassy Consular section and asked what papers I have to bring, or if I have to bring my family to show my connection.

Sorry now for that, next time I will do that, but at another Consular city, country.

Sigapores Thai Embassy will not see me again.

They can keep their unfriendly style and service for other people.

I lived the last years with Tourist visas for free and many short flights outside Thailand, short or long time land trips to Lao and Cambodia also well.

Never a problem.

Only, my Passport was full in 2 years.

Not so good and the new one seems to have the same fate.

So I tried to stop that. Did not work now.

Next time I will be in Vientiane or Savannaketh with my Thai family and papers and I will call first.

I hear from two different friends that they use the black market for their year Visas.

One is retired 52, not married, no children,

one 62 not married, no children, not retired.

No wonder with the problems you have to legally obtain a Visa.

[moe666]

The number of people complaining about not getting a proper visa are miniscule compared to those who recieve a proper visa we just donot hear from them.. I guest it is all dependant on the time of the day, the weather, time of the year, and what side of the bed one gets up on.It sounds like in your case you had more sucess than failure in the last two years.

Better luck next time and at a new Embassy.

[renaissanc]

Alfredo, I hope that it works out for you. The Singapore Embassy has has a reputation for unfriendly behaviour that goes back to the 1990s. There used to be 2 Indian ladies there who gave people a hard time. I remember back in 2002 they gave me SUCH a hard time. As the comparison goes, if you looked up the word "unfriendly" in a dictionary, those 2 ladies would be there to help explain the meaning.

It definitely seems to become more difficult to get a visa nowadays. I have my 26th annual visa renewal coming up. last years I was sent home from the Immigration office 3 times to get more documents, photos, etc. Next to me was a lady who acted as an agent for foreigners paying 10,000 Baht so they wouldn't have to go themselves. The payment of money to the officials was so open that "under the table" must be an out-of-date expression nowadays.

I wish you well, Alfredo! Don't give up!

[Arkady]

Having two children myself I really am attached by Alfredo's story , and I

totally agree with lopburi that the Op applied for the proper visa , he wants to extend his stay in Thailand to take care of his children .

And exactly there lays the problem we foreigners have while being in Thailand , many always say we should always consider ourselves as guests etc , maybe we are , but at least for those who have their dna flooding in Thai citizens , shouldn't it be made easier for those to stay indefinitely as they and their children choose , Thailand is way of the curve on this one , and really is time to make a big change in immigration law in my opinion in these kind of unwillingness everything foreign , things look still far off .

Good luck to the Op , hope things will get easier and that your children can enjoy your company as long as your life may be .

Unfortunate though it may be, you know in advance that when you have children with a Thai woman in Thailand as a tourist or retiree you are still always going to be a temporary resident, liable to sudden changes in rules and whims of immigration and consular officials. The officials don't see you as making a significant contribution to the country, compared to foreigners who work and pay tax here, and probably take the view that you can always take your kids to live in your own country, if you don't like their rules. They don't care whether it is fair or not and they certainly don't want your DNA in their country, so it is better to walk into this situation with eyes open. Otherwise condoms are freely available.

[Blackcat]

Anyone know if the Penang, Malaysia Consulate would be an easier, more friendly & willing option to Singapore?

(I'll be in a similar position next month.....where to go/child/etc).

Seems best to avoid Singapore then?

[RicePudding]

Anyone know if the Penang, Malaysia Consulate would be an easier, more friendly & willing option to Singapore?

(I'll be in a similar position next month.....where to go/child/etc).

Seems best to avoid Singapore then?

I am with guzzi850m2 and would definitely go back to Singapore.

I have had 3 visas from Singapore and I would call the ladies attitude 'business like' yes but not in a negative way.

I believe they stick to the rules and if you have your paper work in order, then everything should be OK. It only takes a phone call to them to find out what is required if your situation is unusual.

I did need to show a plane ticket into Thailand, but not out of Thailand, or the equivalent in cash, which I have never been asked for at other embassies but that was no big deal.

On my visits the waiting times were short. Compared to Vietiane where once I got there at 9:50am and they had already closed the gates because of too many people and I had to go back the next day.

I don't think Singapore needs to be avoided, just call them first if you have any doubts about what is required.

[Gypsyjoe]

Dear Alfredo,

It was the same with me and not the first time...and will not be the last time.

I'm married and I show all the papers,

the only paper i did not think of was the plain ticket back to BKK but was able to printed out..... if this very unfriendly woman let me do it.

It would take 15 minutes for me to print a copy from the internet shop and go back again....No no, even there still 12 people waiting in line she would refuse me come back in line for the application.

Very frustrating and once again waste of peoples money and time not mention the unfriendly way they treat people.

And this is the case in many embassies!!!

I feel sorry for you and hope you will find a way to get your visa.

Best regards

Joe

[sirchai]

Anyone know if the Penang, Malaysia Consulate would be an easier, more friendly & willing option to Singapore?

(I'll be in a similar position next month.....where to go/child/etc).

Seems best to avoid Singapore then?

I am with guzzi850m2 and would definitely go back to Singapore.

I have had 3 visas from Singapore and I would call the ladies attitude 'business like' yes but not in a negative way.

I believe they stick to the rules and if you have your paper work in order, then everything should be OK. It only takes a phone call to them to find out what is required if your situation is unusual.

I did need to show a plane ticket into Thailand, but not out of Thailand, or the equivalent in cash, which I have never been asked for at other embassies but that was no big deal.

On my visits the waiting times were short. Compared to Vietiane where once I got there at 9:50am and they had already closed the gates because of too many people and I had to go back the next day.

I don't think Singapore needs to be avoided, just call them first if you have any doubts about what is required.

I personally think Vientiane is the better place to go to. Even Sawan Nakhet (near Mukdahan) seems to be a better place.

You'll have to be there on time before eight am and your visa will be ready the next day around one pm. Good luck!! :jap:

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted as off-topic and because largely in CAPS, which is considered shouting and unpolite.

[tijnebijn]

Having two children myself I really am attached by Alfredo's story , and I

totally agree with lopburi that the Op applied for the proper visa , he wants to extend his stay in Thailand to take care of his children .

And exactly there lays the problem we foreigners have while being in Thailand , many always say we should always consider ourselves as guests etc , maybe we are , but at least for those who have their dna flooding in Thai citizens , shouldn't it be made easier for those to stay indefinitely as they and their children choose , Thailand is way of the curve on this one , and really is time to make a big change in immigration law in my opinion in these kind of unwillingness everything foreign , things look still far off .

Good luck to the Op , hope things will get easier and that your children can enjoy your company as long as your life may be .

Unfortunate though it may be, you know in advance that when you have children with a Thai woman in Thailand as a tourist or retiree you are still always going to be a temporary resident, liable to sudden changes in rules and whims of immigration and consular officials. The officials don't see you as making a significant contribution to the country, compared to foreigners who work and pay tax here, and probably take the view that you can always take your kids to live in your own country, if you don't like their rules. They don't care whether it is fair or not and they certainly don't want your DNA in their country, so it is better to walk into this situation with eyes open. Otherwise condoms are freely available.

Considering for those setting the rules , if made easier I'm pretty sure many of those 'unwanted' foreigners as you put it can and will make a significant contribution to the country , willingly . Btw I don't blame officials or immigration officers at all , they are just doing their job , but policy makers tell them what to do , the officers I or my wife have spoken to , are flubbergasted of the fact there is almost no way to have some rights opposed to what many get in return in the West , although that is getting harder too these days , and they are significant ranking officials I have spoken to , in provincial and police levels , nothing to do about it until the attitude changes , which is hard to turn .

Not that I myself am in need of anything , nor am I complaining , just an observation what I stated , I'm not crying out loud because of it .

And the frase you state about condoms is an insult to all who have half- babies born in Thailand who's mother or father is Thai ! Maybe you think you know all that , but you can't take away the fact those children should have the right their foreign parent could stay with them indefinitely , thats good for them and Thailand .

[phantomfiddler]

Hi Alfredo,

Years ago I once applied in Singapore for a non immigrant visa, and was knocked back purely because the indian looking lady behind her punchproof shield did not like the quality of paper that the company letter was written on, and the guy queing in front of me was knocked back for exactly the same reason. Thinking back on it I should have demanded to see her superior, of which I,m sure there were many, but at the time I was too ruffled to demand proper service. Taking the very same bunch of paperwork to Saigon, I was warmly greeted in the Thai Embassy, and told to come back the next day for my visa ! A completely different attitude, and quite amazing. But do not lose hope. I recently went to Manila, where for a mere tourist visa I was asked to provide a copy of my bank accounts in Thailand, a copy of my VISA credit card, a copy of my ATM card, copies of the title deeds of my many properties, a ticket in AND out of Thailand, and a handwritten letter explaining why I wanted to go to Thailand, all this in addition to the 2 page application form and photos ! These requirements being totally out of the question, I came back into Thailand getting the free 30 days on arrival, waited until the 30 days were almost over, and managed to sort everything out to my complete satisfaction down at the local Immigration Office in Thailand. Go down to your local immigration office and simply ask how much get what you need. Good luck.

[SanukJoeII]

I know Alfred(o) personally, we are friends and when he is in my village we regularly spent some time together.

We have never talked about this: I think you go back to Austria from time to time. Why don't you come back then with a Non Imm O multiple entry for one year? If it's true when out and in just before the 12 months is over you get another 3 months, so 15 months in total. No worries for 15 months!

Embassies are different, not logical as they are all Thai embassies and one could expect standard rules, but that is not the case.

As a general rule everybody has to be prepared and have the required documentation available. To know what exactly a phone call is usually enough.

If you don't have the documents they require you cannot blame the embassy personnel for following the rules and deny a visa.

Secondly it has been proven a major advantage to take your wife/GF with you, in this case maybe even one of the kids. I remember my first retirement visa, kind of tensed I was, took my wife with me, officer talked a lot to her and only asked me if I was happy with her. Visa 5 minutes later.

It might not always work that easy but having a Thai national wife/GF with you can make a world of difference.

Good luck next time Alfred!

Joe

[thunder30101]

I am not an old timer like many of you but I see very rough times ahead for visas due to very open policy of selling visas here. It is not going to take long for foreign embassies to catch wind of this and cause a major crackdown. Osama bin ladin could have got a thai visa.