ManU In Decline?

[alfieconn]

Man U chose the wrong man , and they did that because big head Ferguson made the decision:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jan/06/david-moyes-manchester-united-manager-jose-mourinho

The word from a friend of mind who is a big Man U supporter : " He was obviously instrumental in bringing David Moyes to the club. Could it be possible, that had they bought in Mourinho, Guardiola (who where both heavily linked with the club, and where SERIOUS choices) and they took United ...the next level, i.e. European cup etc etc, it may be possible that they would be seen as BETTER managers than Fergie, and that would have upset him whilst he is still at the club in an ambassadorial role".

[alfieconn]

[sam sen]

wrong man for the job?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jan/06/david-moyes-manchester-united-manager-jose-mourinho

[carmine]

Moyes relatively blameless in the current scheme of things ??

Not quite sure about that one.........Fellaini for 27.5m and which clown gave the go ahead for Nani to get a new 5 year contract ?

I would also suspect that it was Moyes decision to get rid of the coaching staff who worked for SAF. To me, therein lies a huge proportion of where things are going wrong. I'm not saying a new manager shouldn't bring in guys he knows, Pellegrini brought in a brand new coaching staff with the exception of Brian Kidd but those you are bringing in should at least be better than those who they are replacing.

Exactly. Moyes turns up and gets rid of all the back room staff. Throws away years of experience at the top level, guys that knew the club inside out. Did it against the advice of Ferguson who had previously tried to explain to him the difference and step up from Everton to United.

Moyes was never going to cut it at United and never will. Doesn't have the pedigree Ferguson had when he began the job, doesn't look the part, and clearly doesn't have the tactical acumen.

[Macclad]

Yes,its a good point about the coaching staff.

I can understand him bringing in Round as his assistant to replace Phelan but surely he should have kept Meulensteen and Steele,the goalkeeping coach who helped bring on De Gea in leaps and bounds.

Phil Neville as first team coach <deleted>.....his first job.....he should be learning the job at somewhere like Tranmere Rovers not the top tier of English football !

[ffaarraanngg]

Yes,its a good point about the coaching staff.

I can understand him bringing in Round as his assistant to replace Phelan but surely he should have kept Meulensteen and Steele,the goalkeeping coach who helped bring on De Gea in leaps and bounds.

Phil Neville as first team coach <deleted>.....his first job.....he should be learning the job at somewhere like Tranmere Rovers not the top tier of English football !

Surely he has been learning how to be a coach from the age of 10 or whenever he went to ManU.

Guardiola is only 42 so was a similar age to Neville when he took over at Barcelona.

Its football not rocket science it isn't that confusing no matter how much <deleted> people like to make up about the game.

The reason Man U are 7th is because they've got average and ageing players.

[rixalex]

Yes,its a good point about the coaching staff.

I can understand him bringing in Round as his assistant to replace Phelan but surely he should have kept Meulensteen and Steele,the goalkeeping coach who helped bring on De Gea in leaps and bounds.

Phil Neville as first team coach <deleted>.....his first job.....he should be learning the job at somewhere like Tranmere Rovers not the top tier of English football !

Surely he has been learning how to be a coach from the age of 10 or whenever he went to ManU.

Guardiola is only 42 so was a similar age to Neville when he took over at Barcelona.

Its football not rocket science it isn't that confusing no matter how much <deleted> people like to make up about the game.

The reason Man U are 7th is because they've got average and ageing players.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you say about coaching. Not criticizing the job Guardiola has done for one minute, it's been very impressive, but I do feel there is in general this sense amongst the English that for managers/coaches to be good, they need to have a bit of mystery about them, that tends to come with being foreign and speaking broken English.

Much easier when an English manager or an English pundit talks about football for us to write off what they are saying as being a load of <deleted>, and perhaps sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Strike that, when that ESPN crew talk it's always <deleted>. When however we listen to some exotic foreigner saying the same sort of thing but with the accent, perhaps it all sounds a bit more deep and meaningful and we aren't so quick to dismiss it.

Let's give Neville a chance. He's English, he's played at the top level, and he's got United in his blood. Doesn't make him a good coach of course, but it's a good start in my book.

[mrbojangles]

Theatre of Dreams ! I've never laughed so much since I went to the Comedy Club. Maybe a name change is in order !

Yes they're changing it to the "Theatre of Wet Dreams" as it was all over once Moyes started

I heard a good one today.

They are now calling it a Moyes-oleum

[StevieH]

old ticket tout sums up sentiment towards moyes at present:

https://vine.co/v/h3uh7A0vjY5

[carmine]

Moyes now claiming United are having to play the opposition and the officials!!

Oh the irony! 25 years of irony in that.....mindyou, as ferguson always liked to remind us, "it all evens out over the season"

[StevieH]

his comments last night should see him on an FA charge to be honest. rodgers is up on one for his post-man city match comments.

[wilai]

5 men sitting in a bar: Mr. Wenger, Mr. Mourinho, Mr. Rodgers, Mr. Moyes and Mr. Martinez.

The first round of beers was on Mourinho, he bought a Portuguese beer for of the others. The second round was on Martinez, he bought everybody a San Miguel. The third round was on Wenger, he bought everybody a glass of red wine. The fourth round was on Rodgers, he bought a pint to the guys, except for Moyes.

Then Mr. Moyes said; Hey guys what about my pint...?

Rodgers looked at him and said "Sorry David, this is the fourth round, and you are not in it."

Deary me. Don't give up the day job mate.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Still practicing for retirement Rix...How about.....?

What's the difference between a tea bag and Man United? A tea bag stays in the cup longer.

[carmine]

Yes,its a good point about the coaching staff.

I can understand him bringing in Round as his assistant to replace Phelan but surely he should have kept Meulensteen and Steele,the goalkeeping coach who helped bring on De Gea in leaps and bounds.

Phil Neville as first team coach <deleted>.....his first job.....he should be learning the job at somewhere like Tranmere Rovers not the top tier of English football !

Surely he has been learning how to be a coach from the age of 10 or whenever he went to ManU.

Guardiola is only 42 so was a similar age to Neville when he took over at Barcelona.

Its football not rocket science it isn't that confusing no matter how much <deleted> people like to make up about the game.

The reason Man U are 7th is because they've got average and ageing players.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you say about coaching. Not criticizing the job Guardiola has done for one minute, it's been very impressive, but I do feel there is in general this sense amongst the English that for managers/coaches to be good, they need to have a bit of mystery about them, that tends to come with being foreign and speaking broken English.

Much easier when an English manager or an English pundit talks about football for us to write off what they are saying as being a load of <deleted>, and perhaps sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Strike that, when that ESPN crew talk it's always <deleted>. When however we listen to some exotic foreigner saying the same sort of thing but with the accent, perhaps it all sounds a bit more deep and meaningful and we aren't so quick to dismiss it.

Let's give Neville a chance. He's English, he's played at the top level, and he's got United in his blood. Doesn't make him a good coach of course, but it's a good start in my book.

Fair enough Rix but i think in this case it was the unprecedented experience of the Ferguson back room staff that was needed.

Theres a been a lot of talk amongst United fans that Moyes was Ferguson choice but not a lot of talk about Moyes going against the advice given him by his predecessor.

The advice being "stick with the back room staff, they guide you through the early days"

Very sound advice from a great manager that you are supposed to learn from not do the polar opposite. Moyes is a fool i'm afraid and paying the price because its right now he could have been relying on that vast experience to carry him through and i'm quite sure Ferguson and Charlton are only too aware

[meatboy]

Yes,its a good point about the coaching staff.

I can understand him bringing in Round as his assistant to replace Phelan but surely he should have kept Meulensteen and Steele,the goalkeeping coach who helped bring on De Gea in leaps and bounds.

Phil Neville as first team coach <deleted>.....his first job.....he should be learning the job at somewhere like Tranmere Rovers not the top tier of English football !

Surely he has been learning how to be a coach from the age of 10 or whenever he went to ManU.

Guardiola is only 42 so was a similar age to Neville when he took over at Barcelona.

Its football not rocket science it isn't that confusing no matter how much <deleted> people like to make up about the game.

The reason Man U are 7th is because they've got average and ageing players.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you say about coaching. Not criticizing the job Guardiola has done for one minute, it's been very impressive, but I do feel there is in general this sense amongst the English that for managers/coaches to be good, they need to have a bit of mystery about them, that tends to come with being foreign and speaking broken English.

Much easier when an English manager or an English pundit talks about football for us to write off what they are saying as being a load of <deleted>, and perhaps sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Strike that, when that ESPN crew talk it's always <deleted>. When however we listen to some exotic foreigner saying the same sort of thing but with the accent, perhaps it all sounds a bit more deep and meaningful and we aren't so quick to dismiss it.

Let's give Neville a chance. He's English, he's played at the top level, and he's got United in his blood. Doesn't make him a good coach of course, but it's a good start in my book.

Fair enough Rix but i think in this case it was the unprecedented experience of the Ferguson back room staff that was needed.

Theres a been a lot of talk amongst United fans that Moyes was Ferguson choice but not a lot of talk about Moyes going against the advice given him by his predecessor.

The advice being "stick with the back room staff, they guide you through the early days"

Very sound advice from a great manager that you are supposed to learn from not do the polar opposite. Moyes is a fool i'm afraid and paying the price because its right now he could have been relying on that vast experience to carry him through and i'm quite sure Ferguson and Charlton are only too aware

dont know if you saw the match but at the final whistle the camera was on fergie and bobby charlton with bobby shakeing his head or it could hair in his eye's.they need some new player's quick or they might find evra on his way.

[StevieH]

dont know if you saw the match but at the final whistle the camera was on fergie and bobby charlton with bobby shakeing his head or it could hair in his eye's.they need some new player's quick or they might find evra on his way.

https://vine.co/v/h3uh7A0vjY5

don't think evra's one of their bigger problems to be honest. complete absence of a midfield would be a starting point.

[mrbojangles]

Moyes is breaking all sorts of records at the moment.

Sunderland's first victory over United since November 2000

Three consecutive defeats in all competitions is United's worst run since May 2001.

First time in 82 years that United have lost their first three matches in the new year.

[carmine]

dont know if you saw the match but at the final whistle the camera was on fergie and bobby charlton with bobby shakeing his head or it could hair in his eye's.they need some new player's quick or they might find evra on his way.

https://vine.co/v/h3uh7A0vjY5

don't think evra's one of their bigger problems to be honest. complete absence of a midfield would be a starting point.

His handling of the midfield's been the biggest problem all season.

[SantiSuk]

Every great leader's greatest failing. Lack of succession planning.

Same same the elephant in the room a certain country close to our hearts.

[nev]

http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1uig2l/question_is_david_moyes_underperforming_as/ceinr8j

I like this from a city fan a very honest assessment.

[rixalex]

Yes,its a good point about the coaching staff.

I can understand him bringing in Round as his assistant to replace Phelan but surely he should have kept Meulensteen and Steele,the goalkeeping coach who helped bring on De Gea in leaps and bounds.

Phil Neville as first team coach <deleted>.....his first job.....he should be learning the job at somewhere like Tranmere Rovers not the top tier of English football !

Surely he has been learning how to be a coach from the age of 10 or whenever he went to ManU.

Guardiola is only 42 so was a similar age to Neville when he took over at Barcelona.

Its football not rocket science it isn't that confusing no matter how much <deleted> people like to make up about the game.

The reason Man U are 7th is because they've got average and ageing players.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you say about coaching. Not criticizing the job Guardiola has done for one minute, it's been very impressive, but I do feel there is in general this sense amongst the English that for managers/coaches to be good, they need to have a bit of mystery about them, that tends to come with being foreign and speaking broken English.

Much easier when an English manager or an English pundit talks about football for us to write off what they are saying as being a load of <deleted>, and perhaps sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Strike that, when that ESPN crew talk it's always <deleted>. When however we listen to some exotic foreigner saying the same sort of thing but with the accent, perhaps it all sounds a bit more deep and meaningful and we aren't so quick to dismiss it.

Let's give Neville a chance. He's English, he's played at the top level, and he's got United in his blood. Doesn't make him a good coach of course, but it's a good start in my book.

Fair enough Rix but i think in this case it was the unprecedented experience of the Ferguson back room staff that was needed.

Theres a been a lot of talk amongst United fans that Moyes was Ferguson choice but not a lot of talk about Moyes going against the advice given him by his predecessor.

The advice being "stick with the back room staff, they guide you through the early days"

Very sound advice from a great manager that you are supposed to learn from not do the polar opposite. Moyes is a fool i'm afraid and paying the price because its right now he could have been relying on that vast experience to carry him through and i'm quite sure Ferguson and Charlton are only too aware

You may well be right carmine, but we'll never know. Either way, what's done is done. Not much point dwelling on ifs buts and maybes. We have to move forward with what we have and with how things stand.

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[rixalex]

5 men sitting in a bar: Mr. Wenger, Mr. Mourinho, Mr. Rodgers, Mr. Moyes and Mr. Martinez.

The first round of beers was on Mourinho, he bought a Portuguese beer for of the others. The second round was on Martinez, he bought everybody a San Miguel. The third round was on Wenger, he bought everybody a glass of red wine. The fourth round was on Rodgers, he bought a pint to the guys, except for Moyes.

Then Mr. Moyes said; Hey guys what about my pint...?

Rodgers looked at him and said "Sorry David, this is the fourth round, and you are not in it."

Deary me. Don't give up the day job mate.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Still practicing for retirement Rix...How about.....?

What's the difference between a tea bag and Man United? A tea bag stays in the cup longer.

A bit better. ;-)

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[rixalex]

his comments last night should see him on an FA charge to be honest. rodgers is up on one for his post-man city match comments.

Agreed. We've had a few debatable ones go against us sure but nothing that blatant. Moyes should stop moaning about officiating and focus on what he and the team are doing wrong. Not like he's going to garner any sympathy is it.

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[smokie36]

I think you are being a tad unkind to Moyes....after all he has consistently finished better than ninth over the years.

I'm convinced he'll manage seventh!

[Pormax]

First of all I am not a Man U supporter. This is where I see things have gone wrong.

1. Expectation - Moyes is an OK manager and up with the best of British managers but cannot compare to the man he replaced. Much as I loathed the man, Ferguson was the very best in many aspects and at times I could even believe he was one man who could get blood out of a stone.

2. No fear factor- the players themselves do not seem to have the same respect for Moyes as they did for Ferguson and I doubt he has the harsh tongue of his predecessor. I think that possibly this is also the same with the officials and where Man U might have been given some favourable decisions in the past it is no longer going their way. Also one has to look at Everton, Moyes left them to go to Man U and with very little increase in players they are playing much better than previously. So is Moyes that good. Not sure he is. It takes a big man and very good Manager to to take up the reins from Alex Ferguson. One thing I will say about Moyes is that he is starting to complain about this and that, so is carrying on Fergies tradition.

3. True they have good players but new/younger players should have been bought in.

4. As has been already stated it is not just about the Manager but his backroom staff. Why change a winning formula when they know the players so well. Doesn't make sense to me.

[rixalex]

First of all I am not a Man U supporter. This is where I see things have gone wrong.

1. Expectation - Moyes is an OK manager and up with the best of British managers but cannot compare to the man he replaced. Much as I loathed the man, Ferguson was the very best in many aspects and at times I could even believe he was one man who could get blood out of a stone.

2. No fear factor- the players themselves do not seem to have the same respect for Moyes as they did for Ferguson and I doubt he has the harsh tongue of his predecessor. I think that possibly this is also the same with the officials and where Man U might have been given some favourable decisions in the past it is no longer going their way. Also one has to look at Everton, Moyes left them to go to Man U and with very little increase in players they are playing much better than previously. So is Moyes that good. Not sure he is. It takes a big man and very good Manager to to take up the reins from Alex Ferguson. One thing I will say about Moyes is that he is starting to complain about this and that, so is carrying on Fergies tradition.

3. True they have good players but new/younger players should have been bought in.

4. As has been already stated it is not just about the Manager but his backroom staff. Why change a winning formula when they know the players so well. Doesn't make sense to me.

A lot of reasonable points in there that i don't have much disagreement with.

One thing i do question however, is the point about how Everton have done since Moyes left. Martinez has been in charge for about 20 games. Doing incredibly well but very early days. Moyes was in charge for over 500 games. Let's just see how Martinez is doing after a season or two before we rush to any premature judgments or comparisons.

[Chicog]

I think Martinez has proven himself already in the Premiership myself. Smart move by Everton.

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[rixalex]

I think Martinez has proven himself already in the Premiership myself. Smart move by Everton. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't think whether or not he has proven himself in the Premiership was the question. The question was, has he proven himself at Everton? I don't think he has... yet. A great start but what will a great start mean if in the second half of the season they drop away. Not a great deal. For what it's worth, i hope that doesn't happen.

[Chicog]

Everton are in the Premiership. He's proven himself in the Premiership. QED.

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[BIGTOE3]

Everton are in the Premiership. He's proven himself in the Premiership. QED. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Was his last team in the EPL not relegated ?? I also hope Everton do ok.

BT

[rixalex]

Everton are in the Premiership. He's proven himself in the Premiership. QED. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He proved himself at Wigan. He's not at Wigan any more. QED.