Could My Child Disapear In Thailand.

[happydaze]

I have sort legal advice for on going relationship problems myself and my Thai wife have. Aside from everything else my lawyer said what ever I do, do not let my child go to Thailand. The baby was borne in Australia.

He believes it is nothing for an 18 month old baby to dissapear. Even though our relationship is rocky I feel if I state this to her it will be the nail in the coffin yet if I do not he thinks I run the risk of not seeing the child for a long time or ever.

In his experence Thailand is to corupt for any legal help.

There is no reason for the child to go there aside from meeting his grand mother, not that an 18 month old would care. I would rather pay for her holiday out here.

Has anyone had this happen or any other angle I could take.

[MikeyIdea]

Many have opinions about the Thai legal system without knowing enough to be able to separate between civil, criminal and family law even. Ask your lawyer if "in his experience" comes from family law matters

No, family law in Thailand is not corrupt. Very high connections if you are talking hi-so families can possibly affect outcome but it is rare. I am not saying that civil and criminal law is as clean of course

Saying that though, if you and the mother live in Australia and you feel that there are problems in the relationship, then hold on to your childs passport for dear life and don't her him go to Thailand, sure. I would give the same advise if the mother had been French or German or whatever

It is a sad fact that it is the child who suffers the most when relationships break. It is a childs dream to have both a mother and a father, difficult enough when parents live in the same city not to mention when they live in different countries

How to do? I don't know. If you are legally married in Australia, then you have shared custody in Thailand (but that fact may not be formally registered here yet), if you aren't then mother has sole custody here. If you let the child go to Thailand, then the mother has the right to keep the child here (as each parent separately has the right to decide where child lives) but you can of course sue and you will be given a fair trial

Problem is still that; The child has the right to see her mother, to be with her mother too. You will be given a fair trial and fair amount of time with the child but will you be able to use it if you live in Australia? The mother can basically veto that you take the child out of Thailand if she wants to. The mothers custody and visitation rights will never be taken away from her unless there is evidence that she is a danger for the child. Same in Europe. Same in Australia too had the situation been the opposite I would think

If separation is final, then I would try to get the mother to agree to a custody agreement from an Australian court making you primary custodian but father must grant mother access to her child 3 months per year (i.e., child lives in Australia with you but you either allow child to be with mother in Thailand 3 months per year or pay for everything to let the mother come to Australia and take care of her child there for 3 months per year). An agreement like that gives the child access to both her mother and her father and should offer you decent (but certainly not perfect) protection in a Thai family court should the mother break it

Good Luck

Edited May 20, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[Mario2008]

Thailand hs no parental kidnapping laws and will also not recognize a foreign court decision regarding the custody of a Thai child. This means that if your wife and kid travel to Thailand she can decide to stay her. In that case you would have to go to a Thai court and settle the custody over the child (as part of a divorce).

A Thai court is not biased and will simply act in what they believe is in the best interest of the child. Corruption doesn't come into play.

[MikeyIdea]

I see that Mario2008 has posted too. Agree, Thai court will not recognize a foreign court decision as such but the agreement is fair and will affect the outcome. You can also get an agreement written in Thai by a Thai lawyer referening Thai law (stating the same thing) to help you further

At the end of the day: An agreement will never guarantee the end of a custody battle, it can always be taken up again at a later time (regardless of agreement). It will enforce that there need to be valid reason to change, change of circumstances though

Always think of the best for the child, good luck

[happydaze]

Many have opinions about the Thai legal system without knowing enough to be able to separate between civil, criminal and family law even. Ask your lawyer if "in his experience" comes from family law matters

No, family law in Thailand is not corrupt. Very high connections if you are talking hi-so families can possibly affect outcome but it is rare. I am not saying that civil and criminal law is as clean of course

Saying that though, if you and the mother live in Australia and you feel that there are problems in the relationship, then hold on to your childs passport for dear life and don't her him go to Thailand, sure. I would give the same advise if the mother had been French or German or whatever

It is a sad fact that it is the child who suffers the most when relationships break. It is a childs dream to have both a mother and a father, difficult enough when parents live in the same city not to mention when they live in different countries

How to do? I don't know. If you are legally married in Australia, then you have shared custody in Thailand (but that fact may not be formally registered here yet), if you aren't then mother has sole custody here. If you let the child go to Thailand, then the mother has the right to keep the child here (as each parent separately has the right to decide where child lives) but you can of course sue and you will be given a fair trial

Problem is still that; The child has the right to see her mother, to be with her mother too. You will be given a fair trial and fair amount of time with the child but will you be able to use it if you live in Australia? The mother can basically veto that you take the child out of Thailand if she wants to. The mothers custody and visitation rights will never be taken away from her unless there is evidence that she is a danger for the child. Same in Europe. Same in Australia too had the situation been the opposite I would think

If separation is final, then I would try to get the mother to agree to a custody agreement from an Australian court making you primary custodian but father must grant mother access to her child 3 months per year (i.e., child lives in Australia with you but you either allow child to be with mother in Thailand 3 months per year or pay for everything to let the mother come to Australia and take care of her child there for 3 months per year). An agreement like that gives the child access to both her mother and her father and should offer you decent (but certainly not perfect) protection in a Thai family court should the mother break it

Good Luck

Thanks you Mike, your infornaition has been helpfull. I see there is no clear answer as what I should do. I know the moral thing to do is to let my wife take our son to visit he country but I suppose if there is any deut then I should just say no, until he is a teenager. At this stage my son has no passort what so ever.

[happydaze]

Thailand hs no parental kidnapping laws and will also not recognize a foreign court decision regarding the custody of a Thai child. This means that if your wife and kid travel to Thailand she can decide to stay her. In that case you would have to go to a Thai court and settle the custody over the child (as part of a divorce).

A Thai court is not biased and will simply act in what they believe is in the best interest of the child. Corruption doesn't come into play.

Thanks again Mario, Very clear advice. Like I mentioned to Mike--- I see now that no mater what I put into place there is a great risk in letting my son go to thailand even for a 2 week holiday. He does not have a passport at all yet and its probably best I leave it that way. More sleepless nights

[happydaze]

Thailand hs no parental kidnapping laws and will also not recognize a foreign court decision regarding the custody of a Thai child. This means that if your wife and kid travel to Thailand she can decide to stay her. In that case you would have to go to a Thai court and settle the custody over the child (as part of a divorce).

A Thai court is not biased and will simply act in what they believe is in the best interest of the child. Corruption doesn't come into play.

Mario, even though the child is an Australian citezen??

[Boo]

the child is Thai by virtue of being born to a Thai mother or father. what passport it holds is irrelevant.

[Flatouthruthefog]

Thailand hs no parental kidnapping laws and will also not recognize a foreign court decision regarding the custody of a Thai child. This means that if your wife and kid travel to Thailand she can decide to stay her. In that case you would have to go to a Thai court and settle the custody over the child (as part of a divorce).

A Thai court is not biased and will simply act in what they believe is in the best interest of the child. Corruption doesn't come into play.

Thanks again Mario, Very clear advice. Like I mentioned to Mike--- I see now that no mater what I put into place there is a great risk in letting my son go to thailand even for a 2 week holiday. He does not have a passport at all yet and its probably best I leave it that way. More sleepless nights

Well done all on these wise replies to the OP!

May I broaden the topic a little within the remit of the headline?

There are real fears of the possible kidnapping, especially of luk-krung (mixed race) children, simply by evil people for financial gain.

Over 10 years ago there was a nationally reported spate of baby stealing from maternity wards in hospitals in and round Chiang Mai, luk krung and 'Totally Thai' babies.

I am now working with a luk krung mother of 2. Her father is Thai, her mother American, and she, her husband and 2 young children have just moved from US to Thailand. The woman's US based Thai father is hyper-sensitive and worried about criminal kidnapping in Thailand.

When she found that I'm the delighted father of a very young luk-krung boy (who I just have to say is amazingly handsome!) here in Thailand, she seemed relieved that I wasn't hyped up too.

But is she right and am I complacent.........?

[Mario2008]

Baby kidnapping cases are very rare. There are some reports of several children missing every year, but that number is very luckily low.

[sinbin]

Thailand is not a signatory to the Hague Convention, which covers parental child abduction.

Edited May 29, 2011 by sinbin

[MikeyIdea]

"But is she right and am I complacent.........? "

No, you are right and whoever is hyper-sensitive to child kidnapping in Thailand is... hyper-sensitive. Child kidnapping rate is as Mario2008 says low

I am the happy father of a 6 year old daughter here and I thank Buddha that I live in a safe country like Thailand where un-provoked violence is non-existing. I would worry much more if my daughter had been growing up in a country where un-provoked violence is relatively common like many American and European cities, also including Australian cities like Melbourne and Sidney nowadays.

Kidnapping is not the risk, un-provoked violence is

And there, Thailand is Good

Edited May 30, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[sinbin]

I would/do worry more about Thai motorcyclist harming my kids than I do about anything else. On that basis alone, I think Thailand to be more dangerous than elsewhere.