Yingluck: Amnesty Will Restore Peace In Thailand

[dude007]

She said she will use her experience of having managed several large companies and apply it to running the country.

That is extremely bad news. The highest priority of a corporation is profit. Other factors like people's wellbeing and the environment are only a small concern (and only because of regulatory requirements, otherwise there would be often no concern at all).

A must-see documentary is The Corporation. Here's the trailer:

Here's the IMDB page: The Corporation (2003)

Here's the Storyline from IMDB:

Since the late 18th century American legal decision that the business corporation organizational model is legally a person, it has become a dominant economic, political and social force around the globe. This film takes an in-depth psychological examination of the organization model through various case studies. What the study illustrates is that in the its behaviour, this type of "person" typically acts like a dangerously destructive psychopath without conscience. Furthermore, we see the profound threat this psychopath has for our world and our future, but also how the people with courage, intelligence and determination can do to stop it.

Hyperdimension: you are super-right! A big hit on the nail's head! GOVERNING A COUNTRY IS NOT RUNNING A BUSINESS... The goals are totally different and this of course is the biggest mistake this Palin Shinawatra could ever make: the same mistake that her brother successfully achieved: enriching himself and his Shinawatra corporation... until the army made an end to this.

When will these Thais start opening their eyes? How much more do they want to be stolen from this Shinawatra clan?

Her second mistake is "Amnesty" now... She gives herself open to what reason she is selected by this Corleone-godfather as potential PM: to free her brother with an amnesty rule and bring him back to the country to share once again the big cake which is laying there, waiting to be eaten by the Shinawatra clan... Army: be prepared. Another coup might save your country once more for as long as it is needed until this Shinawatra clan has lost their grip on the power and vanished in the Dubai-desert...

[rubl]

Apisit went to Nong Khai province but as soon as the reds heard he was there they sent a contingent off to harrass and drive him away.And as for Chiang Mai, there's quite a history of leading Democrats facing physical assault there.

He's done more for farmers than Thaksin ever did, his crop subsidy scheme has reached far more farmers, especially the rice farmers, than Thaksin's mortgage project which helped the millers.

There is I believe an intended oilseed subsidy, and intended fertiliser subsidy for second crop rice, did these measures get pushed through?

Just to let you know most poorer farmers are on land that will only carry enough water for one crop.

The latest fertiliser subsidy was approved on the 4th/5th of May 2011. At that time is was said that the government estimated total fertiliser usage of 2.3 million tonnes over the next three to four months, comprising 1.8 million tonnes for rice and 500,000 tonnes for maize and tapioca. The plan was aimed to cover 70 million rai of first-crop paddy cultivation and 20 million rai of maize and tapioca.

[473geo]

Apisit went to Nong Khai province but as soon as the reds heard he was there they sent a contingent off to harrass and drive him away.And as for Chiang Mai, there's quite a history of leading Democrats facing physical assault there.

He's done more for farmers than Thaksin ever did, his crop subsidy scheme has reached far more farmers, especially the rice farmers, than Thaksin's mortgage project which helped the millers.

There is I believe an intended oilseed subsidy, and intended fertiliser subsidy for second crop rice, did these measures get pushed through?

Just to let you know most poorer farmers are on land that will only carry enough water for one crop.

The latest fertiliser subsidy was approved on the 4th/5th of May 2011. At that time is was said that the government estimated total fertiliser usage of 2.3 million tonnes over the next three to four months, comprising 1.8 million tonnes for rice and 500,000 tonnes for maize and tapioca. The plan was aimed to cover 70 million rai of first-crop paddy cultivation and 20 million rai of maize and tapioca.

Thanks Rubl

and the benefit being, the fertiliser manufacturers are allowed to raise the prices, the government take up any increase, the farmer is actually no better off, but no worse off......correct?

[rubl]

There is I believe an intended oilseed subsidy, and intended fertiliser subsidy for second crop rice, did these measures get pushed through?

Just to let you know most poorer farmers are on land that will only carry enough water for one crop.

The latest fertiliser subsidy was approved on the 4th/5th of May 2011. At that time is was said that the government estimated total fertiliser usage of 2.3 million tonnes over the next three to four months, comprising 1.8 million tonnes for rice and 500,000 tonnes for maize and tapioca. The plan was aimed to cover 70 million rai of first-crop paddy cultivation and 20 million rai of maize and tapioca.

Thanks Rubl

and the benefit being, the fertiliser manufacturers are allowed to raise the prices, the government take up any increase, the farmer is actually no better off, but no worse off......correct?

The greatest benefit being some fools and other idiots can continue asking if their assumptions are right and complain the government is either doing nothing or just helping friends.

Present company excluded of course

[473geo]

Sorry Rubl you've lost me on that last one..........

[kutjebu]

Being called a clone by your own brother had to hurt.

It's made worse by her now having to deflect the comment and rationalize it in the hopes the moniker will fade away.

I have a feeling it won't.

Not yet,because her brother has more money then all farangs in Thailand together and is still making more money.

I call this jealously

[Pi Sek]

I haven't replied to your post in detail because we've been around this course so many times already.I hope you accept it's not a lack of courtesy.

Just a few points

1.I think it's beyond dispute that Thaksin was the legal PM when deposed by the coup makers in 2006.I'm not sure the caretaker status is really relevant

2.I think it would with time and patience have been possible to eject Thaksin democratically.The military cheerleaders simply deny this but without ever explaining why.Thaksin's influence was on the wane and the polls sowed this.

3.You repeat the view, voiced by some other apologists for the old order that country people are oppressed by locally based feudal elites.I think I know what is meant here but it doesn't alter the facts of life in Thailand relating to the Bangkok based dominance of a powerful elite network.Everything else is subsidiary.Read Duncan McCargo's masterful analysis for background.

The reason why I refer to the poster in third person is that he has me on "ignore", so somewhat absurdly he only reacts when he sees me in quotes.

1. Disagree very much - he was illegally prime minister when deposed, and that's the best legal justification for the coup. I don't think it was the main reason, but it was the best reason.

2. Agree very much - this is the natural progression of democracy. I think that, after those who voted for Thaksin finally realised he was keeping them poor (years, decades, centuries?), he would have been voted out. The only question is how long would the country have to wait until the clueless became clued up (especially with a prime minister to whom democractic ideals such as education and transparency are no more than a nuisance)? Democracies that have been around for centuries can't even get it right, what hope is there for Thailand (or Egypt, etc)? I'm no fan of democracy for exactly this reason.

3. I'll repeat the view that "country people are oppressed by locally based feudal elites". However, I'll add that the top end of this feudalism ends up in Bangkok... although they are not the "same powerful elite network" as the traditional one to which you're referring.

[timekeeper]

Sorry Rubl you've lost me on that last one..........

he didn't lose me, i know exactly what he meant

i also know he was not referring to me..........................

[hanuman1]

I haven't replied to your post in detail because we've been around this course so many times already.I hope you accept it's not a lack of courtesy.

Just a few points

1.I think it's beyond dispute that Thaksin was the legal PM when deposed by the coup makers in 2006.I'm not sure the caretaker status is really relevant

2.I think it would with time and patience have been possible to eject Thaksin democratically.The military cheerleaders simply deny this but without ever explaining why.Thaksin's influence was on the wane and the polls sowed this.

3.You repeat the view, voiced by some other apologists for the old order that country people are oppressed by locally based feudal elites.I think I know what is meant here but it doesn't alter the facts of life in Thailand relating to the Bangkok based dominance of a powerful elite network.Everything else is subsidiary.Read Duncan McCargo's masterful analysis for background.

The reason why I refer to the poster in third person is that he has me on "ignore", so somewhat absurdly he only reacts when he sees me in quotes.

1. Disagree very much - he was illegally prime minister when deposed, and that's the best legal justification for the coup. I don't think it was the main reason, but it was the best reason.

2. Agree very much - this is the natural progression of democracy. I think that, after those who voted for Thaksin finally realised he was keeping them poor (years, decades, centuries?), he would have been voted out. The only question is how long would the country have to wait until the clueless became clued up (especially with a prime minister to whom democractic ideals such as education and transparency are no more than a nuisance)? Democracies that have been around for centuries can't even get it right, what hope is there for Thailand (or Egypt, etc)? I'm no fan of democracy for exactly this reason.

3. I'll repeat the view that "country people are oppressed by locally based feudal elites". However, I'll add that the top end of this feudalism ends up in Bangkok... although they are not the "same powerful elite network" as the traditional one to which you're referring.

Hi Pi Sek

Could you remind me why Thaksin was illegally Prime Minister when he was deposed? I asked more or less the same question of jdinasia yesterday but he didn't bother replying and I know you can do better.

I honestly would like to know.

Cheers.

[timekeeper]

Being called a clone by your own brother had to hurt.

It's made worse by her now having to deflect the comment and rationalize it in the hopes the moniker will fade away.

I have a feeling it won't.

Not yet,because her brother has more money then all farangs in Thailand together and is still making more money.

I call this jealously

hey dutch guy, i don't think he is that rich, Naam has got more money than God

the word is jealousy not jealously, change your on line dictionary, it ain't makin' it..........

Edited May 21, 2011 by timekeeper

[timekeeper]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

Abhisit was too busy dealing with the murderous Reds attempted revolution to go swanning around shaking hands with the farmers

Yunglick won't have any trouble in Chang Mai will she ?

how likely is it that she is going to run into a contingent of disruptive yellow shirts or Thaksin haters there?

if anyone dared to protest, what do you think would be the outcome?

come on, be honest Reds, you know any protestors would risk death by doing so

violence and intimidation is a tool of your trade and you know you would strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy your fellow red brothers..

i would like to see Yunglick go to the ''restive south'' and try to find some support there for her cloned Thaksin self and her murderous brothers policies

maybe meet the families of the people who died during her brothers reign,

maybe say she is there to bring peace and resolution to the area and as her brothers clone will follow his policy of peaceful resolution by suffocation

maybe drop some paper birds in advance of her trip.

it may help remind people of exactly what she represents.....................

Edited May 21, 2011 by timekeeper

[Buchholz]

Apisit went to Nong Khai province but as soon as the reds heard he was there they sent a contingent off to harrass and drive him away.And as for Chiang Mai, there's quite a history of leading Democrats facing physical assault there.

He's done more for farmers than Thaksin ever did, his crop subsidy scheme has reached far more farmers, especially the rice farmers, than Thaksin's mortgage project which helped the millers.

The thousands assisted with new government loans to become first time homeowners is another.

[Buchholz]

Being called a clone by your own brother had to hurt.

It's made worse by her now having to deflect the comment and rationalize it in the hopes the moniker will fade away.

I have a feeling it won't.

Not yet,because her brother has more money then all farangs in Thailand together and is still making more money.

I call this jealously

Yes, I'm jealous of a ruinous tyrannical despot.

btw, whatever connection your reply has to what I wrote is a mystery.

[473geo]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

Abhisit was too busy dealing with the murderous Reds attempted revolution to go swanning around shaking hands with the farmers

Yunglick won't have any trouble in Chang Mai will she ?

how likely is it that she is going to run into a contingent of yellow shirts or Thakin haters there?

if anyone dared to protest, what do you think would be the outcome?

come on, be honest Reds, you know any protestors would risk death by doing so

violence and intimidation is a tool of your trade and you know you would strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy your fellow red brothers..

i would like to see Yunglick go to the ''restive south'' and try to find some support there for her cloned Thaksin self and her murderous brothers policies

maybe meet the families of the people who died during her brothers reign,

maybe say she is there to bring peace and resolution to the area and as her brothers clone will follow his policy of peaceful resolution by suffocation

maybe drop some paper birds in advance of her trip.

it may help remind people of exactly what she represents.....................

Same old song......time you guys learnt to move on......

My understanding is there are a few TVisa Thaksin haters living in Chiang Mai...........but I guess we won't see them posting during the Yingluck visit......they will all be out making their feelings known.......

[timekeeper]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

Abhisit was too busy dealing with the murderous Reds attempted revolution to go swanning around shaking hands with the farmers

Yunglick won't have any trouble in Chang Mai will she ?

how likely is it that she is going to run into a contingent of yellow shirts or Thakin haters there?

if anyone dared to protest, what do you think would be the outcome?

come on, be honest Reds, you know any protestors would risk death by doing so

violence and intimidation is a tool of your trade and you know you would strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy your fellow red brothers..

i would like to see Yunglick go to the ''restive south'' and try to find some support there for her cloned Thaksin self and her murderous brothers policies

maybe meet the families of the people who died during her brothers reign,

maybe say she is there to bring peace and resolution to the area and as her brothers clone will follow his policy of peaceful resolution by suffocation

maybe drop some paper birds in advance of her trip.

it may help remind people of exactly what she represents.....................

Same old song......time you guys learnt to move on......

My understanding is there are a few TVisa Thaksin haters living in Chiang Mai...........but I guess we won't see them posting during the Yingluck visit......they will all be out making their feelings known.......

guys?, plural? try to keep up.

i am one person and i dance to the beat of my own drum

as to your comments;

its never gonna happen

on both counts..............

Edited May 21, 2011 by timekeeper

[timekeeper]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

that's where it all went wrong then

he failed to listen to your ideas

dam_n i bet he is kicking himself now................

[473geo]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

Abhisit was too busy dealing with the murderous Reds attempted revolution to go swanning around shaking hands with the farmers

Yunglick won't have any trouble in Chang Mai will she ?

how likely is it that she is going to run into a contingent of yellow shirts or Thakin haters there?

if anyone dared to protest, what do you think would be the outcome?

come on, be honest Reds, you know any protestors would risk death by doing so

violence and intimidation is a tool of your trade and you know you would strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy your fellow red brothers..

i would like to see Yunglick go to the ''restive south'' and try to find some support there for her cloned Thaksin self and her murderous brothers policies

maybe meet the families of the people who died during her brothers reign,

maybe say she is there to bring peace and resolution to the area and as her brothers clone will follow his policy of peaceful resolution by suffocation

maybe drop some paper birds in advance of her trip.

it may help remind people of exactly what she represents.....................

Same old song......time you guys learnt to move on......

My understanding is there are a few TVisa Thaksin haters living in Chiang Mai...........but I guess we won't see them posting during the Yingluck visit......they will all be out making their feelings known.......

never gonna happen

on both counts..............

Yep you can't move on and, can't accept or improve the current situation....................... impotent

[473geo]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

that's where it all went wrong then

he failed to listen to your ideas

dam_n i bet he is kicking himself now................

He listened....just overuled..... .

[473geo]

Same old song......time you guys learnt to move on......

My understanding is there are a few TVisa Thaksin haters living in Chiang Mai...........but I guess we won't see them posting during the Yingluck visit......they will all be out making their feelings known.......

guys?, plural? try to keep up.

i am one person and i dance to the beat of my own drum

as to your comments;

its never gonna happen

on both counts..............

You don't even understand your drum is making the same sound as the others.......tone deaf?

[timekeeper]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

Abhisit was too busy dealing with the murderous Reds attempted revolution to go swanning around shaking hands with the farmers

Yunglick won't have any trouble in Chang Mai will she ?

how likely is it that she is going to run into a contingent of yellow shirts or Thakin haters there?

if anyone dared to protest, what do you think would be the outcome?

come on, be honest Reds, you know any protestors would risk death by doing so

violence and intimidation is a tool of your trade and you know you would strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy your fellow red brothers..

i would like to see Yunglick go to the ''restive south'' and try to find some support there for her cloned Thaksin self and her murderous brothers policies

maybe meet the families of the people who died during her brothers reign,

maybe say she is there to bring peace and resolution to the area and as her brothers clone will follow his policy of peaceful resolution by suffocation

maybe drop some paper birds in advance of her trip.

it may help remind people of exactly what she represents.....................

Same old song......time you guys learnt to move on......

My understanding is there are a few TVisa Thaksin haters living in Chiang Mai...........but I guess we won't see them posting during the Yingluck visit......they will all be out making their feelings known.......

never gonna happen

on both counts..............

Yep you can't move on and, can't accept or improve the current situation....................... impotent

i came home from Chang Mia one day in a new red suit, shirt, tie, shoes and everything

my wife says to me why are you all dressed up like that?

i said i went to see the Thai doctor

he said i was impotent, so i figured if a doctor thought i was important, i better look like I'm important............

[timekeeper]

Same old song......time you guys learnt to move on......

My understanding is there are a few TVisa Thaksin haters living in Chiang Mai...........but I guess we won't see them posting during the Yingluck visit......they will all be out making their feelings known.......

guys?, plural? try to keep up.

i am one person and i dance to the beat of my own drum

as to your comments;

its never gonna happen

on both counts..............

You don't even understand your drum is making the same sound as the others.......tone deaf?

you need some new material

maybe consult the thaksin playbook on how to deal with hecklers.......

[timekeeper]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

that's where it all went wrong then

he failed to listen to your ideas

dam_n i bet he is kicking himself now................

He listened....just overuled..... .

at least he listened, more than your fellow reds do...........

[473geo]

i came home from Chang Mia one day in a new red suit, shirt, tie, shoes and everything

my wife says to me why are you all dressed up like that?

i said i went to see the Thai doctor

he said i was impotent, so i figured if a doctor thought i was important, i better look like I'm important............

.....don't believe you.....

[473geo]

I suggested around the time of the protest last year that Abhisit would be well advised to reach out to the rural communities and build a relationship..........it would appear this is the current agenda of Yingluck............

I guess Abhisit was just too busy running the country.........

that's where it all went wrong then

he failed to listen to your ideas

dam_n i bet he is kicking himself now................

He listened....just overuled..... .

at least he listened, more than your fellow reds do...........

My fellow reds........ ......I understand there is a 'red' political movement in Thailand, populated by Thai people......I am not Thai and certainly not involved in Thai politics.......I am a foreigner.......therefore I do not get my knickers in a twist over who the next government will be..........

I make comments on a forum.....

[timekeeper]

i came home from Chang Mia one day in a new red suit, shirt, tie, shoes and everything

my wife says to me why are you all dressed up like that?

i said i went to see the Thai doctor

he said i was impotent, so i figured if a doctor thought i was important, i better look like I'm important............

.....don't believe you.....

I'm starting a political action group to focus attention on the needs of humorless supporters of political minority's who post on forums who can't take a joke. The name of the organization is Good Riddance to Unrelentingly Morose People (GRUMP).

Our logo will be the face of a grumpy person behind the international "NO" sign.

We will have T-shirts, big D dunce hats and bumper stickers.(please allow 28 days for delivery)

If you want to join, please e-mail

info@grumpynonhumorouspersonswhosupportreds(dot) com

or call in at

RedHead Central

Chang Mai

Thailand

96 96 96 96 96

(we asked for another more easily recognized number but as usual we got it arse about face)

Edited May 21, 2011 by timekeeper

[473geo]

With a bit of luck it will keep you very busy..... ........I wish you well in your new enterprise............

do you have a work permit......

[timekeeper]

With a bit of luck it will keep you very busy..... ........I wish you well in your new enterprise............

do you have a work permit......

thanks for your best wishes

i will send you an honorary membership, you certainly deserve it

meantime i will really have to move along to spend some time with other TV members who offer more demanding debate

if i stay around here any longer, i fear my intelligence quatioant might drop to red levels

thank you

its been real..........

[SteeleJoe]

On the question of amnesties, those frothing with indignation at the prospect might care to reconcile their position on the coup makers of 2006 who, conscious of their criminality, awarded themselves an ex post facto pardon for an offence far worse than any committed by Thaksin and with more lasting and disastrous consequences.In some countries the gallows would have beckoned.

Where there's a will there's a way

Just for the record: that's what -- for obvious reasons -- every what every single 'coup-making' group has done for the last 80 years.

That doesn't make it right of course, but it's a given. It is by definition a different situation than giving amnesty to a person like Thaksin (not claiming it's better or worse -- different.)

I agree of course.You will appreciate I was trying to expose the hypocrisy of selective indignation.

But on the issue of Thai coups the question of amnesty cannot be taken for granted.The key issue is whether the coup is approved, or in the case of the last one - orchestrated, by the feudal elite and its military supporters.If an attempted coup takes place that doesn't have this approval, the consequences can be rather severe - notably in the case of General Chalard in the 1970's who faced a firing squad within days.

It’s not clear to me that anyone is necessarily indignant atthe idea of amnesties or pardons in general but rather in this particularinstance – and I’m not sure there’s any hypocrisy inherent in that position. Presumablythere are some offenses which many if not most would be amenable to pardoning (egA mass murderer? No. A person responsible for vehicular manslaughter? Maybe.)

As for general Chalard, I’m well aware of his ’77 attemptand his fate (and there were reasons why he was dispatched so quickly and finally). However I was, I would have thought it clear,speaking of successfulcoups (otherwise how could coup-makers pardon themselves?) which are always "approved" (before or after the fact).

And it’s perhaps more nuanced than you describe: instrumentalin Chalard’s failure was his aide’s turning against him. That aide was MajorGeneral Manoonkrit: he went on to lead two failed coupattempts against none other than General Prem – and General prem is of course is at the very top tier of what you callthe ”feudal elite andits military supporters”. Indeed he sits at the right hand of ____

Not only wasGeneral Manoonkrit able to mount another coup attempt 4 years after his first,he was eventually pardoned for both and wound up a Speaker of the Senate (onceapproached by Peua Thai to head them?)

[Rhys]

Hm... can some of you remember the election saying of the 72 US Presidential elections... applies here

Why change Dikcs is a middle of a screw.. vote for Taksin in 2011.555555

[khaowong1]

She is going to run into the same pitfalls that tripped up her brother and also many, many other successful business people that try to go into politics. Namely unrelenting criticism that you are unused to receiving and having every word you utter picked apart.

Wonder how long it will be before she shows up at a news conference with a buzzer and little sign with "X" on it to avoid answering questions she doesn't like.

TH

Similar to Ross Perot when he ran for president. He was an astute, well qualified business man, but knew little about politics or world events. Interesting to see however, most of his predictions came to be, especially about NAFTA. That little debacle with Bill Clintons nod of approval, sent many jobs outside of the country. NAFTA is the main reason why when you pick up the phone to talk to your insurance company, your talking to someone in New Delhi. If he could have run on the Republican ticket instead of the Independant ticket, I believe he would have won.