Thailand Election: Focus Shifts To Northeast

[whybother]

In the interests of fairness and impartiality, if, as you seem to imply but do not state, your statement applies to those supporters of the Red Shirts, would you accept that your statement above could be equally applied to many of the supporters of the democrat party and the army that post on this forum, in the light of the events of last April/May and subsequent postings by those forum members?

Were the PAD breaking the law when they had their rally?

Were the red shirts who attacked them in charge of law enforcement?

[jdinasia]

In your case being the army and its murder of unarmed civilians.Or did they murder themselves: your constantly evolving position is wearisome to monitor.Anyway we have the authoritative HRW report now which skewers the lies.

I don't favour violence on any side but if a group of thugs (whether PAD or Reds) come into an area - known to be unfriendly politically - with the specific intent of provoking trouble, I'm not going to complain if one or two get their bottoms kicked.

... or shot?

Hmmmm I read that as thinking violence is acceptable in the face of non-violent protest ... quite a statement huh?

[samurai]

The Democrat Party has failed to obtain significant votes in the Northeast for years, and won just five seats in the region during the last general election in 2007.

The now-defunct People's Power Party won 102 seats in the region in the 2007 polls. Many of them are now Pheu Thai candidates in the upcoming election, while others defected to Bhum Jai Thai and other parties.

Anyone want make a guess how many seats the Democrats will score this time?

[jdinasia]

In the interests of fairness and impartiality, if, as you seem to imply but do not state, your statement applies to those supporters of the Red Shirts, would you accept that your statement above could be equally applied to many of the supporters of the democrat party and the army that post on this forum, in the light of the events of last April/May and subsequent postings by those forum members?

Hmmmmmmm all things being equal the answer is an unequivocal Yes.

Sadly, all things are NOT equal in the case you are presenting and you know it. The reds escalated the violence every time starting in April BEFORE the first attempt at dispersal. On April 10th they showed themselves to clearly be an armed insurrectionist group. They were given lawful orders to disperse and used war-weapons. --- So ... If things were equal I would have to say yes it is not ok to use violence. Since the reds WERE violent and did escalate the violence at each step ... and were met with progressive and appropriate measures ... The answer to your suggestion is simply "since the cases are not equal, they cannot be compared."

[rubl]

Interesting quotes from the OP:

"Abhisit heckled by reds during Samut Sakhon campaigning; Yingluck gets warm reception in Udon Thani

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana guaranteed no red-shirted people would create trouble for the PM when he was in the Northeast, particularly in Udon Thani, which is the main base of the red-shirt movement under his leadership.

"We welcome all political parties to campaign in the provinces, and in the northeastern region. We won't bother them and will allow them to provide full information about their policies to voters," he said. "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit.""

Must I assume heckling is not a form of creating trouble

[rubl]

The Democrat Party has failed to obtain significant votes in the Northeast for years, and won just five seats in the region during the last general election in 2007.

The now-defunct People's Power Party won 102 seats in the region in the 2007 polls. Many of them are now Pheu Thai candidates in the upcoming election, while others defected to Bhum Jai Thai and other parties.

Anyone want make a guess how many seats the Democrats will score this time?

Assuming this is another of your "more or less rhetorical question kind of; and is for anyone who might have some more ideas. Or could voice an opinion to some thoughts or could answer questions like", I gracefully decline

[Buchholz]

Kwanchai and his thugs attacked a peaceful rally by the PAD in the park in Udon, it was outrageous with rewards for causing injuries and even deaths being made from red microphones.

Kwanchai should be in jail. BTW ,what happened to his wife after she was caught with stolen jewelery in her possession after the red riots last year?

Well worth repeating, Siripon. (and without the confusing quotes).

Of course now you'll be told that the PAD deserved every bit of the beatings they received, because they are "fascist" and had it coming to them.

You'll also be told how PAD provoked the whole incident and were nothing but violent thugs during the entire incident.

That you'll be told this by someone who hadn't heard of the event prior to today shouldn't concern you, because they know what's what irregardless of actual events and you're just a murdering Army supporter.

.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Buchholz

[samurai]

The Democrat Party has failed to obtain significant votes in the Northeast for years, and won just five seats in the region during the last general election in 2007.

The now-defunct People's Power Party won 102 seats in the region in the 2007 polls. Many of them are now Pheu Thai candidates in the upcoming election, while others defected to Bhum Jai Thai and other parties.

Anyone want make a guess how many seats the Democrats will score this time?

Assuming this is another of your "more or less rhetorical question kind of; and is for anyone who might have some more ideas. Or could voice an opinion to some thoughts or could answer questions like", I gracefully decline

Nevermind, that thread is about the coming election, with the focus on North East and some heckler for Mr. A. Still better than no attention at all.

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted as off topic.

[rubl]

Interesting quotes from the OP:

"Abhisit heckled by reds during Samut Sakhon campaigning; Yingluck gets warm reception in Udon Thani

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana guaranteed no red-shirted people would create trouble for the PM when he was in the Northeast, particularly in Udon Thani, which is the main base of the red-shirt movement under his leadership.

"We welcome all political parties to campaign in the provinces, and in the northeastern region. We won't bother them and will allow them to provide full information about their policies to voters," he said. "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit.""

Must I assume heckling is not a form of creating trouble

Call the army and teach them a lesson and some geography. Maybe it helps.

Even for a samurai you seem a bit militant, or just heckling in a banterish type of way? Any way with various UDD leaders having asked their members to refrain from heckling and k. Kwanchai having gone on record with "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit" I'm sure k. Abhisit's campaign in the North-East will be uneventful apart from the usual political speeches, etc., etc. He may even attract some red-shirts to help keep things in order.

PS geography? Don't worry, I'm sure k. Abhisit will be able to find the North-East. It's somewhere there in the right upper corner :-)

[samurai]

Interesting quotes from the OP:

"Abhisit heckled by reds during Samut Sakhon campaigning; Yingluck gets warm reception in Udon Thani

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana guaranteed no red-shirted people would create trouble for the PM when he was in the Northeast, particularly in Udon Thani, which is the main base of the red-shirt movement under his leadership.

"We welcome all political parties to campaign in the provinces, and in the northeastern region. We won't bother them and will allow them to provide full information about their policies to voters," he said. "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit.""

Must I assume heckling is not a form of creating trouble

To bad that these red shirts don't know that, needs a heckler to tell them.

I assume Samut Sakhon isn't in the North_East, nor particularly in Udon Thani.

[rubl]

To bad that these red shirts don't know that, needs a heckler to tell them.

I assume Samut Sakhon isn't in the North_East, nor particularly in Udon Thani.

Are you applying for the job? I'm willing to give a character reference.

As for geography, pity you couldn't see me waving in that general direction. Suggest you use google, but be careful, too far North-East may give you cold feet

Edited May 26, 2011 by rubl

[phiphidon]

In the interests of fairness and impartiality, if, as you seem to imply but do not state, your statement applies to those supporters of the Red Shirts, would you accept that your statement above could be equally applied to many of the supporters of the democrat party and the army that post on this forum, in the light of the events of last April/May and subsequent postings by those forum members?

Hmmmmmmm all things being equal the answer is an unequivocal Yes.

Sadly, all things are NOT equal in the case you are presenting and you know it. The reds escalated the violence every time starting in April BEFORE the first attempt at dispersal. On April 10th they showed themselves to clearly be an armed insurrectionist group. They were given lawful orders to disperse and used war-weapons. --- So ... If things were equal I would have to say yes it is not ok to use violence. Since the reds WERE violent and did escalate the violence at each step ... and were met with progressive and appropriate measures ... The answer to your suggestion is simply "since the cases are not equal, they cannot be compared."

At the risk of going over old ground ;

On April 10th they showed themselves to clearly be an armed insurrectionist group. They were given lawful orders to disperse and used war-weapons

What, every single one of the red shirts died that day, deserved to? Or everbody who used a war weapon deserved to? Or just a sample to make a point?

Since the reds WERE violent and did escalate the violence at each step ... and were met with progressive and appropriate measures

Yet the HRW report states that the Army used disproportionate force?

The cases are equal, violence is violence and both sides used it, just that some were more disproprtionate than others, the casualty ratios attest to that.

[samurai]

Interesting quotes from the OP:

"Abhisit heckled by reds during Samut Sakhon campaigning; Yingluck gets warm reception in Udon Thani

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana guaranteed no red-shirted people would create trouble for the PM when he was in the Northeast, particularly in Udon Thani, which is the main base of the red-shirt movement under his leadership.

"We welcome all political parties to campaign in the provinces, and in the northeastern region. We won't bother them and will allow them to provide full information about their policies to voters," he said. "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit.""

Must I assume heckling is not a form of creating trouble

Call the army and teach them a lesson and some geography. Maybe it helps.

Even for a samurai you seem a bit militant, or just heckling in a banterish type of way? Any way with various UDD leaders having asked their members to refrain from heckling and k. Kwanchai having gone on record with "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit" I'm sure k. Abhisit's campaign in the North-East will be uneventful apart from the usual political speeches, etc., etc. He may even attract some red-shirts to help keep things in order.

PS geography? Don't worry, I'm sure k. Abhisit will be able to find the North-East. It's somewhere there in the right upper corner :-)

Militant? Banterish? I am the one with the facts and correct geographic information.

--------

Army's Assistant Chief of Staff Visits Northeast to Clarify Riot Suppression

The Army's assistant chief of staff has visited northeastern provinces to create public understanding on the suppression of the recent red-shirt riot.

...

He stated that the Army wants to make people understand army procedure under a state of emergency so that authorities can provide people in the region with the truth.

Lieutenant General Dapong also presided over a meeting of about 3,000 state officials in Udon Thani Province to explain to them the truth behind each of the incidents that occurred during the anti-government protests in an effort to make them understand the Army’s intention to maintain the country’s security.

He also asked the officials to provide the public with correct information.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/TOC/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1014235

-------

See, that's how it works.

Or maybe didn't work. Call the army wasn't my idea.

[rubl]

Yet the HRW report states that the Army used disproportionate force?

The cases are equal, violence is violence and both sides used it, just that some were more disproprtionate than others, the casualty ratios attest to that.

The HRW report also says

"After months of careful preparations at hundreds of

informal “Red Shirt schools” nationwide, an estimated

120,000 protesters descended on the capital from UDD rural

strongholds to call for new elections and the effective end of

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva’s government."

Poor red-shirts, indoctrinated, sent to Bangkok as cannon fodder

[phiphidon]

Interesting quotes from the OP:

"Abhisit heckled by reds during Samut Sakhon campaigning; Yingluck gets warm reception in Udon Thani

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana guaranteed no red-shirted people would create trouble for the PM when he was in the Northeast, particularly in Udon Thani, which is the main base of the red-shirt movement under his leadership.

"We welcome all political parties to campaign in the provinces, and in the northeastern region. We won't bother them and will allow them to provide full information about their policies to voters," he said. "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit.""

Must I assume heckling is not a form of creating trouble

Must I assume heckling is not a form of creating trouble

You assumption is correct and the EC agree with you. If Abhisit has trouble with dealing with heckling he could get some sound advice at The Comedy Store, London. Although if this is the best he can come up with it appears as if he is appealing for the sympathy vote..................

So apart from the heckling what other provable incidents have happened to the hapless Abhisit as alleged by Suthep?

[samurai]

To bad that these red shirts don't know that, needs a heckler to tell them.

I assume Samut Sakhon isn't in the North_East, nor particularly in Udon Thani.

Are you applying for the job? I'm willing to give a character reference.

As for geography, pity you couldn't see me waving in that general direction. Suggest you use google, but be careful, too far North-East may give you cold feet

[rubl]

From samurai:

"Call the army and teach them a lesson and some geography. Maybe it helps."

and

"Militant? Banterish? I am the one with the facts and correct geographic information.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/TOC/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1014235

See, that's how it works.

Or maybe didn't work. Call the army wasn't my idea."

You forgot to mention that the article quoted is from April 2009 and described how the army 'explained'. To say 'call the army and teach them a lesson' IS militant and suggests violence.

As for not your idea, you dragged it up, so don't complain if I call you a bit militant.

[samurai]

Must I assume heckling is not a form of creating trouble

You assumption is correct and the EC agree with you. If Abhisit has trouble with dealing with heckling he could get some sound advice at The Comedy Store, London. Although if this is the best he can come up with it appears as if he is appealing for the sympathy vote..................

So apart from the heckling what other provable incidents have happened to the hapless Abhisit as alleged by Suthep?

It just needs some knowledge and the truth on your side and the heckler will look like fools. At this stage its time to ignore them.

Edited May 26, 2011 by samurai

[rubl]

Let's try again after all deflections:

With various UDD leaders having asked their members to refrain from heckling and k. Kwanchai having gone on record with "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit" I'm sure k. Abhisit's campaign in the North-East will be uneventful apart from the usual political speeches, etc., etc. He may even attract some red-shirts to help keep things in order.

[rubl]

Let's try again after all deflections:

With various UDD leaders having asked their members to refrain from heckling and k. Kwanchai having gone on record with "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit" I'm sure k. Abhisit's campaign in the North-East will be uneventful apart from the usual political speeches, etc., etc. He may even attract some red-shirts to help keep things in order.

And to show a lack of double standards a Khunying Puangthong has been found guilty and fined 500B for slapping in the face another lady she thought made too much noise, but who was just helping Pongpisuth Jintasophon, a Pheu Thai candidate in a constituency covering Yannawa and Bang Kho Laem districts, campaigning at Kingchan market (there's a newsflash by the other paper)

[timekeeper]

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . -- George Eliot

I always thought that was said by Abraham Lincoln? not by the author of Silas Marner and Middlemarch.

he is one of the many the quote is attributed to, apparently theres no definitive answer

many have said similar meaning statements in a slightly different way

i think on this one we are both right......

Edited May 26, 2011 by timekeeper

[jdinasia]

Hmmmmmmm all things being equal the answer is an unequivocal Yes.

Sadly, all things are NOT equal in the case you are presenting and you know it. The reds escalated the violence every time starting in April BEFORE the first attempt at dispersal. On April 10th they showed themselves to clearly be an armed insurrectionist group. They were given lawful orders to disperse and used war-weapons. --- So ... If things were equal I would have to say yes it is not ok to use violence. Since the reds WERE violent and did escalate the violence at each step ... and were met with progressive and appropriate measures ... The answer to your suggestion is simply "since the cases are not equal, they cannot be compared."

At the risk of going over old ground ;

On April 10th they showed themselves to clearly be an armed insurrectionist group. They were given lawful orders to disperse and used war-weapons

What, every single one of the red shirts died that day, deserved to? Or everbody who used a war weapon deserved to? Or just a sample to make a point?

Since the reds WERE violent and did escalate the violence at each step ... and were met with progressive and appropriate measures

Yet the HRW report states that the Army used disproportionate force?

The cases are equal, violence is violence and both sides used it, just that some were more disproprtionate than others, the casualty ratios attest to that.

Hmmm let's see ....Do we know who killed each and every person on APril 10th? No. Do we even know who killed the majority on April 10th? No.

The HRW report draws many semi-conclusions and uses minimal facts to arrive at some of them. I wish they were actually neutral in the matters they speak to, but I do not feel that they are. They are, I readily admit, the most comprehensive in putting out a report about what happened and most of it is pretty much on track. In fact, not too much to argue with in the report except the actual culprits in many of the deaths. They certainly dispel the myth of the reds being non-violent, mentioning armed reds, leaders inciting violence, and a paramilitary black shirt group within the reds. They objected to the "live fire zones" etc .... They just lean far too left to be useful in the real world.

To say the cases are equal would suggest that the PAD people in NongKhai were armed with military weapons AND used them, or were given lawful orders to disperse, or had attacked others, or or or or ... Not equal at all. The reds in BKK were not peaceful protesters.

If you are "pro-democracy" and believe in peaceful protest .... then you don't advocate the use of violence on peaceful protesters ... even if Jayboy wants to call the protesters "fascist"

"Equal Cases" would be if the reds were set upon by people that objected to them just showing up by a mob armed with bats ... some people here are advocating for that, it would appear...

Edited May 26, 2011 by jdinasia

[metisdead]

One post in another language was removed. This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[Buchholz]

Abhisit to campaign in Red Shirt stronghold

BANGKOK - Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as Democrat Party leader is scheduled to visit all regions and will launch its political campaign in the Northeast, a major stronghold of the Pheu Thai Party and the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), the Red Shirt movement, according to a Democrat Party spokesman.

Buranat Samutharak said the party will carry its campaign countrywide to demonstrate to eligible voters that its party leader represents all Thais regardless of their opposition or support of the party.

Mr Abhisit will visit Ubon Ratchathani, Yasothon, and Amnat Charoen Saturday to announce the party's platform to woo voters, in particular the guaranteed income scheme for farmers, wage hikes, and reduced cost of living, the party spokesman said, adding that a date and venue for the major campaign in the Northeast is being considered.

Sunday the Democrat leader goes to Chon Buri and Chachoengsao to seek voter support for his drug suppression plan and the Eastern provinces development scheme, Mr Buranat said.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai Party PM candidate Yingluck Shinawatra on Friday campaigned in Maha Sarakham in the northeast.

She said her three-day campaign in the northeastern provinces has received good public response. She expressed confidence that her party will sweep all constituencies in Maha Sarakham.

Ms Yingluck, youngest sister of fugitive ousted prime minister Thaksin, said that the country's top job should result from the election and from voters' decisions.

She said her party will again discuss the premiership if the party wins a clear majority in the general election on July 3.

-- TNA 2011-05-27

[whybother]

She said her party will again discuss the premiership if the party wins a clear majority in the general election on July 3.

I suppose that's why Yingluck isn't going to debate Abhisit. She's probably not the PTP PM candidate.

I wonder when the PTP are going to let the voters know who their PM candidate is? ... I suppose on July 4.

Edited May 28, 2011 by whybother

[Buchholz]

She said her party will again discuss the premiership if the party wins a clear majority in the general election on July 3.

I suppose that's why Yingluck isn't going to debate Abhisit. She's probably not the PTP PM candidate.

I wonder when the PTP are going to let the voters know who their PM candidate is? ... I suppose on July 4.

That's an interesting proposition.

IF one were to use the position as debater for the Pheu Thai Party and directly relate it to the position of PM, we could see the potential for the next PM, according to PTP bigwig Surapong when explaining why Yingluck won't debate, being....

Pheu Thai MP Surapong Tovichakchaikul also said there was no need to rush into a public debate with Abhisit. However, Surapong insisted that Yingluck was a successful businesswoman and she would definitely go to join a debate when she was ready.

Surapong admitted that Yingluck was not an experienced debater.

If Abhisit wanted a debate, they could send Natthawut to the stage.

Also add in the PTP-stated position of "not necessarily Party-list #1 gets offered PM" declaration... and voila' .... it's true, we end up with Party-list #8 getting the nod as leader of the nation.

.