Feminists Not Elated About Yingluck

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BURNING ISSUE

Feminists not elated about Yingluck

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Leading feminists say that having Yingluck Shinawatra as a candidate for the country's top job is not a milestone in the struggle for greater gender equality, because Yingluck is an unknown quantity and does not necessarily represent women's interests.

Virada Somswadi, a veteran feminist and founder of Chiang Mai University's Women's Studies Programme, said: "She entered [politics] because of other political factors. She cannot be a representative of women's groups, because she has never expressed her vision and stance regarding the protection of women's interests."

Virada is sceptical enough to say that "it would be a waste of time" for women's rights advocates to talk to Yingluck about pushing through issues of gender equality.

However, Suteera Vichitranonda, president of the Bangkok-based Gender and Development Research Institute, is less sceptical. She said that while Yingluck was an unknown quantity, she was willing to wait and see what the Pheu Thai candidate had to say about gender equality and women's rights.

"We must wait and listen," Suteera said. "But have you heard her say anything about that yet?"

Suteera also advised women to look beyond the issue of gender and consider the candidate's other qualifications. She also voiced concern that none of the major political parties were fielding enough women as party-list candidates for the House of Representatives as stipulated in the current Constitution, adding that the media should call for a more balanced gender make-up.

According to the current charter, at least 30 per cent of the party-list candidates have to be women, but the present number stands at a dismal 12 per cent, said Raewadee Prasertcharoensuk, chairwoman of Women Network for Political Reform. The network comes under the National Reform Congress led by influential social critic Prawase Wasi, who was appointed by the prime minister.

Raewadee added that the Election Commission was not trying hard enough to encourage all parties to reach that minimum threshold, which is also in accordance with the international convention on gender equality, of which Thailand is a signatory.

As for Yingluck, Raewadee said women should not be elated simply because Yingluck is a woman, but they should look at all her policies, not just those promoting general equality. They should also see where she stands on justice, social and economic disparity.

As far as gender equality is concerned, Yingluck has not said a single thing so far, Raewadee said, adding that she found former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's remark that his sister was his "clone" rather disturbing.

"Is she really her brother's clone?" Raewadee wondered.

Meanwhile, Subhatra Bhumiprabhas, a former reporter at The Nation and an active feminist, said many feminists were against Thaksin, and this bias made them unenthusiastic about Yingluck. She added that things would be different if Yingluck were to run under the banner of another party.

Subhatra's observations contain some grains of truth. The red-and-yellow political divide runs very deep, and feminists are not immune to it.

As Thaksin's "clone", some feminists can see Yingluck as "a man" or someone who is not representative of women's interests and the struggle for greater gender equality. Yet it would not hurt if feminists lobbied all major political parties to push for gender-related policies and committed themselves to closing the gender-inequality gap. The Pheu Thai Party should not be excluded in this.

This writer fears that some feminists are more concerned about preventing Pheu Thai from forming the next government than about lobbying and pushing for gender-related policies with a party that has Yingluck, or rather Thaksin, at the helm.

-- The Nation 2011-05-26

[sbk]

Off topic bs removed.

It is possible to act like an adult and post in a manner that isn't inflammatory and insulting to others.

[Lite Beer]

Off topic post and a post discussing moderation have been deleted.

If you have an issue with a moderation decision please contact the person concerned.

[LomSak27]

This just in from The Nation

It looks to be pretty conclusive; everyone who is anyone doesn't like Ying, Thaksin or PT.

Wow,that came as a shock. Need More Coffee

[Buchholz]

As far as gender equality is concerned, Yingluck has not said a single thing so far, Raewadee said, adding that she found former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's remark that his sister was his "clone" rather disturbing.

Given the above and Yingluck's claims she hopes to win by using her femininity (which although shares the same root word as feminists is actually opposite in meaning by context) and Yingluck's work history of getting employment only by means of her surname and not by her own talents and merit, it's no wonder that feminists are less than enthusiastic about this potentially first female PM.

[jayboy]

Given the above and Yingluck's claims she hopes to win by using her femininity (which although shares the same root word as feminists is actually opposite in meaning by context) and Yingluck's work history of getting employment only by means of her surname and not by her own talents and merit, it's no wonder that feminists are less than enthusiastic about this potentially first female PM.

Forgive me but I don't accept Buchholz as a guru on feminist thinking.

You could make the same tired slur about Rupert Murdoch's children.The reality is that they are outstandingly talented.Actually if one reads the Thai press carefully one will see there is no serious questioning of Yingluck's intelligence and appetite for hard work.In terms of business experience she completely outstrips Abhisit.What she doesn't have of course is Abhisit's political experience

[luckizuchinni]

Doesn't surprise me. Feminists who hold feminist issues as their prime political criterion should not be looking at her gender but on what she offers to them. Additionally, I can't help but think that the fact she is riding on Taksin's coattails does not leave a good impression of a strong woman succeeding in her own right.

On the other hand, Suteera Vichitranonda probably has a more pragmatic outlook. If you don't know Yingluck's stand on a particular issue, then wait until she makes her stand known before passing judgement.

[whybother]

Given the above and Yingluck's claims she hopes to win by using her femininity (which although shares the same root word as feminists is actually opposite in meaning by context) and Yingluck's work history of getting employment only by means of her surname and not by her own talents and merit, it's no wonder that feminists are less than enthusiastic about this potentially first female PM.

Forgive me but I don't accept Buchholz as a guru on feminist thinking.

You could make the same tired slur about Rupert Murdoch's children.The reality is that they are outstandingly talented.Actually if one reads the Thai press carefully one will see there is no serious questioning of Yingluck's intelligence and appetite for hard work.In terms of business experience she completely outstrips Abhisit.What she doesn't have of course is Abhisit's political experience

Yingluck is Thaksin's sister, not his daughter. She wasn't brought up with the expectations of running the family company.

All she's done is work in high positions in her brother's companies. Has she actually worked for anyone/anything else?

Edited May 26, 2011 by whybother

[Buchholz]

Given the above and Yingluck's claims she hopes to win by using her femininity (which although shares the same root word as feminists is actually opposite in meaning by context) and Yingluck's work history of getting employment only by means of her surname and not by her own talents and merit, it's no wonder that feminists are less than enthusiastic about this potentially first female PM.

Forgive me but I don't accept Buchholz as a guru on feminist thinking.

You could make the same tired slur about Rupert Murdoch's children.The reality is that they are outstandingly talented.Actually if one reads the Thai press carefully one will see there is no serious questioning of Yingluck's intelligence and appetite for hard work.In terms of business experience she completely outstrips Abhisit.What she doesn't have of course is Abhisit's political experience

One doesn't have to be a "guru" to understand the feminists reluctance to support someone who derogatorily is referred to as a clone by her own brother, derogatorily (to feminists) lists her womanly charms as a strong personal attribute, whose work history consists of made-up positions in her brother's company, and has never done anything for the feminist movement or women's rights.

[Buchholz]

Doesn't surprise me. Feminists who hold feminist issues as their prime political criterion should not be looking at her gender but on what she offers to them. Additionally, I can't help but think that the fact she is riding on Taksin's coattails does not leave a good impression of a strong woman succeeding in her own right.

She's been doing that riding whether it was her past work history or her current political endeavor, and, yes, that lack of independence isn't conducive to winning over the women's vote.

On the other hand, Suteera Vichitranonda probably has a more pragmatic outlook. If you don't know Yingluck's stand on a particular issue, then wait until she makes her stand known before passing judgement.

A nationally-televised debate would be an excellent venue for her to voice her stance, but alas, that is unlikely to come to pass.

Short of that perhaps she could curtail a smidgen of her roadshow to actually say some things on the subject.

.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

Yingluck is Thaksin's sister, not his daughter. She wasn't brought up with the expectations of running the family company.

All she's done is work in high positions in her brother's companies. Has she actually worked for anyone/anything else?

I don't see that her relationship to Thaksin within the family makes any difference.

She hasn't as far as I know worked for any other organisation.That's entirely typical of the Sino-Thai business tradition, where equally the employment of family is a given.

[OccamsRazor]

I don't see that her relationship to Thaksin within the family makes any difference.

Guess it makes her familiar with nepotism.

[jayboy]

I don't see that her relationship to Thaksin within the family makes any difference.

Guess it makes her familiar with nepotism.

You might as well make the same accusation against Rupert Murdoch or any family business (and that includes most businesses in Thailand)

[tonititan]

As for Yingluck, Raewadee said women should not be elated simply because Yingluck is a woman, but they should look at all her policies, not just those promoting general equality. They should also see where she stands on justice, social and economic disparity.

I agree with this advice, and I think it's an important message for all Thai women, not just "feminists" (whatever that means these days - it no longer means the angry, bra-burning, butch women that people tend to associate with that word) . I'm an American, and a woman, and of course I would love to see a woman as the President of the US someday. Did I vote for McCain/Palin just to get a woman in the White House? No. Would I vote for her in the 2012 elections? HELL no! She may be a woman, but she stands for almost everything I am against.

[FOODLOVER]

I don't see that her relationship to Thaksin within the family makes any difference.

Guess it makes her familiar with nepotism.

You might as well make the same accusation against Rupert Murdoch or any family business (and that includes most businesses in Thailand)

Kennedy & Bush as well

[FOODLOVER]

As for Yingluck, Raewadee said women should not be elated simply because Yingluck is a woman, but they should look at all her policies, not just those promoting general equality. They should also see where she stands on justice, social and economic disparity.

I agree with this advice, and I think it's an important message for all Thai women, not just "feminists" (whatever that means these days - it no longer means the angry, bra-burning, butch women that people tend to associate with that word) . I'm an American, and a woman, and of course I would love to see a woman as the President of the US someday. Did I vote for McCain/Palin just to get a woman in the White House? No. Would I vote for her in the 2012 elections? HELL no! She may be a woman, but she stands for almost everything I am against.

What you talkin bout Willis ? Hillary was a great President!

[MaiChai]

Given the above and Yingluck's claims she hopes to win by using her femininity (which although shares the same root word as feminists is actually opposite in meaning by context) and Yingluck's work history of getting employment only by means of her surname and not by her own talents and merit, it's no wonder that feminists are less than enthusiastic about this potentially first female PM.

Forgive me but I don't accept Buchholz as a guru on feminist thinking.

You could make the same tired slur about Rupert Murdoch's children.The reality is that they are outstandingly talented.Actually if one reads the Thai press carefully one will see there is no serious questioning of Yingluck's intelligence and appetite for hard work.In terms of business experience she completely outstrips Abhisit.What she doesn't have of course is Abhisit's political experience

Yingluck is Thaksin's sister, not his daughter. She wasn't brought up with the expectations of running the family company.

All she's done is work in high positions in her brother's companies. Has she actually worked for anyone/anything else?

I would say that she has been spoon fed and given everything on a plate. She is far from being the self made career woman that other women could look up to. I very much doubt she is involved closely in the day to day running of the businesses her brother appointed her to; more likely she has a team that does all the work and advises her. This closeness to Taksin could go very much against her.

The other thing that could go against her is that she looks too much like Taksin. Almost like when you see her, its like seeing the ghost of Taksin.

Peua Thai is way too much about Taksin to be healthy in anyway for Thailand. You either think for yourself and see its not a healthy situation, or you are already brain washed and follow what Peua Thai tells you to do. Lets hope most Thais can think for themselves, and vote for what they believe is good for the future of Thailand.

[rixalex]

Yingluck is Thaksin's sister, not his daughter. She wasn't brought up with the expectations of running the family company.

All she's done is work in high positions in her brother's companies. Has she actually worked for anyone/anything else?

I don't see that her relationship to Thaksin within the family makes any difference.

She hasn't as far as I know worked for any other organisation.That's entirely typical of the Sino-Thai business tradition, where equally the employment of family is a given.

It makes a difference because it makes it very difficult to judge what level of business expertise she has. She could be an absolute business guru, or she could have simply been given a title and a nice big office. We simply don't know. Now had she been working for companies outside of the family business, we still wouldn't be certain of her credentials, but we probably could safely assume that she wasn't simply being given a nice title with no or little expectation of her actually working.

As to your point about employment of family being a given with the Sino-Thais....

What a rich man i would be if i got a penny for every time i heard a valid and fair criticism of the Shinawatra clan being defended or downplayed by the old "well he's not the only one.... they all do it" chestnut.

[jayboy]

As to your point about employment of family being a given with the Sino-Thais....

What a rich man i would be if i got a penny for every time i heard a valid and fair criticism of the Shinawatra clan being defended or downplayed by the old "well he's not the only one.... they all do it" chestnut.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

The fact that Sino-Thai businesses tend to employ family members in the most prominent positions isn't a criticism.It's simply a reality in Thai business life.It is a system that has both strengths and weaknesses.

As to our lack of knowledge how she performed in that business that is certainly true.My experience is that the less talented family members were given peripheral positions and not ones that had much impact on the P and L account.All the evidence siggests that Yingluck is bright and personable so I doubt she falls into that category.

Anyway one thing is for sure - she has more business experience than Abhisit - because he has none.

[rixalex]

The fact that Sino-Thai businesses tend to employ family members in the most prominent positions isn't a criticism.It's simply a reality in Thai business life.It is a system that has both strengths and weaknesses.

It has it strengths?

For the family intent of holding onto its power, i can see the advantages, From a purely business point of view though... well let's just say, i'm not sure how many business gurus would be rushing to make a case for promoting staff for reasons beside merit and aptitude.

[Buchholz]

It makes a difference because it makes it very difficult to judge what level of business expertise she has. She could be an absolute business guru, or she could have simply been given a title and a nice big office. We simply don't know. Now had she been working for companies outside of the family business, we still wouldn't be certain of her credentials, but we probably could safely assume that she wasn't simply being given a nice title with no or little expectation of her actually working.

As to your point about employment of family being a given with the Sino-Thais....

What a rich man i would be if i got a penny for every time i heard a valid and fair criticism of the Shinawatra clan being defended or downplayed by the old "well he's not the only one.... they all do it" chestnut.

That's very true. One wonders also that given she made up her position at AIS and that the position was promptly tossed out by new owners would indicate a "given a title" (actually it was self-created) "and a nice big office" type of work history.

Haven't seen anything that indicates she is bright in any sort of business sense or that she has any real experiences in the business world beyond filling the chair at board meetings.

If she had, I'm sure her current PR team would be trumpeting all her achievements or innovations or business triumphs during her current campaign. Instead, all we hear are her doing voice-overs of her brother's ideas.

.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Buchholz

[samurai]

I don't see that her relationship to Thaksin within the family makes any difference.

Guess it makes her familiar with nepotism.

You might as well make the same accusation against Rupert Murdoch or any family business (and that includes most businesses in Thailand)

Kennedy & Bush as well

What about the Clintons?

[homeslice]

This is one of those times when I don't say what I'm thinking.

[jayboy]

The fact that Sino-Thai businesses tend to employ family members in the most prominent positions isn't a criticism.It's simply a reality in Thai business life.It is a system that has both strengths and weaknesses.

It has it strengths?

For the family intent of holding onto its power, i can see the advantages, From a purely business point of view though... well let's just say, i'm not sure how many business gurus would be rushing to make a case for promoting staff for reasons beside merit and aptitude.

Yes it certainly does have strengths.It's clear from the last few posts that some members simply don't have knowledge of the Sino-Thai business world.Of course the family business structure has strengths as well as weaknesses, and this has been the subject of a great deal of research.I have already pointed out that family dullards are shunted to peripheral positions, and there is rarely mindless nepotism.One also has to understand that children from these families are educated to be businesslike from an early age.There is also increasingly the tendency to bring in some professional managers from outside but these are rarely at the decision making apex.(Think the management arrangements in the Godfather with the Irish born consigliere.)Certainly there is the very visible but I think quite rare tendency for the rich grandchildren to go off the rails.Remember that in most reasonably sized Sino-Thai businesses the family is usually only a few generations away from sweltering in the paddy fields of Southern China, in conditions worse than the most depressed Isaan peasants experience.This breeds a determination and capacity for hard work, absolutely admirable and the driving force of Thailand's rise to relative prosperity.Great challenges ahead for family businesses but as I say the structure has real strengths as well as the more obvious weaknesses.

I see the Thaksin haters are suggesting that because we don't know how Yingluck performed in the business, we should assume mindless nepotism, to repeat the phrase.Nothing could be further from the truth and all the evidence (her bright confidence and obvious intelligence) indicate otherwise.The same old speculative slurs from the usual sources...can one sense perhaps the signs of panic?

Edited May 28, 2011 by jayboy

[rixalex]

I see the Thaksin haters are suggesting that because we don't know how Yingluck performed in the business, we should assume mindless nepotism, to repeat the phrase.Nothing could be further from the truth and all the evidence (her bright confidence and obvious intelligence) indicate otherwise.The same old speculative slurs from the usual sources...can one sense perhaps the signs of panic?

I think i made the point quite clearly that working for a family business doesn't automatically mean a person is not fit or capable, it simply means that as outsiders not privy to the inner workings of the company in question, we simply don't know to what capacity that person worked to. Dead weight can and is tolerated at times in this situation, in a way it rarely is for employees working outside of the family realm. It's a consideration is i guess all that i am saying. If you refuse to consider it, your choice...

To your comment about evidence of her bright confidence and obvious intelligence... i'm getting the confidence but yet to be convinced about the intelligence. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of this evidence you speak of? Her employment record we have established (well at least i have) doesn't necessarily tell us the whole story about her abilities, and her education record seems reasonable but hardly jumping off the paper at us. What else is there to look at? The way she presents her vision for the country in interviews? The ideas she puts forth? Can't say i've been dazzled yet. Still, i'm sure there is time.

As a side note, i notice these days you seem a bit more liberal in your usage of catchy pigeon-holing labels that seem to exist for the purposes of undermining and ridiculing, such as "military cheerleaders" and, as in the above, "Thaksin haters". Such a tactic is of course sadly common around here and i'm sure almost all of us are guilty at one time or other - me included. It's a shame because i don't think it does anything to raise the level of the debate. Anyway, if you feel happy with this style of posting then you obviously don't need my permission...please continue.

[jayboy]

I think i made the point quite clearly that working for a family business doesn't automatically mean a person is not fit or capable, it simply means that as outsiders not privy to the inner workings of the company in question, we simply don't know to what capacity that person worked to. Dead weight can and is tolerated at times in this situation, in a way it rarely is for employees working outside of the family realm. It's a consideration is i guess all that i am saying. If you refuse to consider it, your choice...

To your comment about evidence of her bright confidence and obvious intelligence... i'm getting the confidence but yet to be convinced about the intelligence. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of this evidence you speak of? Her employment record we have established (well at least i have) doesn't necessarily tell us the whole story about her abilities, and her education record seems reasonable but hardly jumping off the paper at us. What else is there to look at? The way she presents her vision for the country in interviews? The ideas she puts forth? Can't say i've been dazzled yet. Still, i'm sure there is time.

As a side note, i notice these days you seem a bit more liberal in your usage of catchy pigeon-holing labels that seem to exist for the purposes of undermining and ridiculing, such as "military cheerleaders" and, as in the above, "Thaksin haters". Such a tactic is of course sadly common around here and i'm sure almost all of us are guilty at one time or other - me included. It's a shame because i don't think it does anything to raise the level of the debate. Anyway, if you feel happy with this style of posting then you obviously don't need my permission...please continue.

I am very familiar with the Sino - Thai business model.Dead weight as I've said several times is almost always shifted to the periphery.You and I may not know how Yingluck was perceived in the business world:there will be many who had transactions who did.None have come forward to suggest she was a drone, and anecdotal evidence suggests the opposite.I don't know her other than from the media.I guess this discussion might have a bit more meat in a few weeks time, as you suggest.Maybe I will be proved wrong - let's see.But I do object to dishonest slurs and speculation (not from you I hasten to add) without any evidence.

You have a point and I'm not entirely happy with these labels, useful though they sometimes are.However if you have a alternative suggestion for those who irrationally demonise Thaksin, are uncritical of the army's many crimes, who believe the main objective of Thai politics is to keep the Rajdamri malls open for the middle classes to prance around, who hold the rural majority in contempt and who believe that the redshirts murdered themselves last year - I will be interested to hear from you.

[AleG]

You have a point and I'm not entirely happy with these labels, useful though they sometimes are.However if you have a alternative suggestion for those who irrationally demonise Thaksin, are uncritical of the army's many crimes, who believe the main objective of Thai politics is to keep the Rajdamri malls open for the middle classes to prance around, who hold the rural majority in contempt and who believe that the redshirts murdered themselves last year - I will be interested to hear from you.

I am very certain that TV members in that group number between zero and none.

[Buchholz]

It'd be nice to see some of these platitudes of her exceptional abilities be backed up with some evidence, otherwise they seem dishonest.

It would also be interesting to see the many that have had transactions with her come forward and cite anecdotal evidence that she was something more than a drone.

.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

It'd be nice to see some of these platitudes of her exceptional abilities be backed up with some evidence, otherwise they seem dishonest.

It would also be interesting to see the many that have had transactions with her come forward and cite anecdotal evidence that she was something more than a drone.

It would be nice if you avoided dishonesty about other members posts.Nobody has talked about her exceptional abilities.The consensus is that she is intelligent and with a pleasant attractive character, but obviously she will become better known to the public as the campaign progresses.There is not the slightest bit of evidence to suggest she is not a very capable person.

You have over the last few weeks made a series of snide and speculative posts about Yingluck, based on no evidence at all - you obviously have no understanding of how large Sino-Thai businesses operate - and earlier sexist jibes for which I believe you have been warned.We know you don't share her politics and you can certainly make the case to the best of your abilities.But don't make up stuff about her and don't lie about other members posts please.

[Buchholz]

You have over the last few weeks made a series of snide and speculative posts about Yingluck, based on no evidence at all

And over the last few weeks you have made a series of praising and speculative posts about Yingluck, based on heaven knows what.