The Dowry

[falangaman]

I know that there are numerous threads on the subject of Dowry or Sin Sod as I believe its known in Thai.

However, myself and another forum member brought this subject up during our visit to the Thai temple yesterday where we have Thai lessons.

Speaking with a Monk (all be him western) he was not aware of the dowry system operating in Thailand. He told us of its use in India but as far as he knew, it was not performed in Thailand. He is inverstigating into it for us.

On the back of this, when speaking with some of the Thai teachers (native Thai's themselves) they were unaware of the practice of a dowry and had no knowledge of it. I found this somewhat bewildering.

There appears to be no consistency as sometimes it is paid, sometimes it isnt. I spoke with someone just yesterday who did not pay one, I have spoken with someone who paid 200K (baht).

Would I assume then, that its not actually a Thai custom?

I would be very interested in other peoples comments and knowledge. As I said, I know that the subject has had numerous threads, but how can it be that some Thais themselves do not know about this system???

Thanks all, FM

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It IS a Thai custom. Talk to a Thai monk not a farang monk. It is so very widely covered here. SEARCH IT.

[meemiathai]

According to tv members saying, this is just a trick designed by BGs to suck money from farangs! So normal thais would be unaware of.

[Pink Mist]

Dont you ever give up?

[falangaman]

I think you misunderstand my asking.

I never thought it a way to suck money from Farangs, I just fing it strange that some Thais do not know of it, yet it is a custom.

It would appear to be a somewhat touchy subject...

Close the thread if you so wish, Im just trying to find a serious answer to a subject that was raised again yesterday!

[bkkmadness]

Definately to start chat with a Thai monk, not a farang one, he obviously knows very little about the customs here. Why those Thai people didn't know about it I can't explain unless they misunderstood you, there definately is a dowry system in place in Thailand.

[falangaman]

Yes, its as I thought.

I find it hard to believe that there was a misunderstanding though, it was asked and explained clearly by a number of people.

Its for reasons like this that we are undertaking lessons, not only do we learn the Thai language, more importantly (and interesting) we are taught elements in Thai culture from greeting different people of higher/lower status, to sitting properly etc. We are only scratching the surface I know, but its fascinating to learn. And of course, its a must if you dont want to make a fool of yourself in front of Thais.

I would recommend everyone attend a class like this if at all possible

[sbk]

My Thai nephew just got married (two days ago!) to a Thai girl. He paid 'sin sod'. My brother-in-law paid it when he married his wife. If you have a wedding, you pay it. We didn't have a wedding so I didn't get any

[pnustedt]

I didn't pay but my wife wasn't worth much - my step daughter gets married next month to a bank manager and we will get Bt250K Great system!

[Pink Mist]

to be returned mate

[bkkmadness]

to be returned mate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

at the discretion isn't it......?

Its all very well moaning about paying the dowry now lads but wait until you have a beautiful daughter in Thailand that's on the verge of marrying, time to start shopping for that home cinema set up!

[astral]

It is definitely the custom in Thailand.

The more that is paid the bigger the gain in face for the bride's family.

I paid 100K for my wife.

However it was for show and I got it back in full, later in the day.

Make sure if this will apply in your case!!

[Tywais]

It is definitely the custom in Thailand.

The more that is paid the bigger the gain in face for the bride's family.

I paid 100K for my wife.

However it was for show and I got it back in full, later in the day.

Make sure if this will apply in your case!!

Same here (100K). Money was spread out on a cloth for all to see. Pops put it in a bag, drapped it over his shoulder and went hopping out like Santa Claus with a big grin on his face. Did return it and yes it is custom. So many threads covering this all ready.

[siamesekitty]

When asking the Thais, did you use the word "sinsod"? Maybe Thais don't understand what you're talking about if you use the word "dowry" and/or described it as a "paying for wife" transaction, because "sinsod" or "sinsod thong mahn" is the term used, not "dowry", and from a Thai person's perspective it's not considered "paying".

I hate the term "pay" used for sinsod, because to me it's a gift you offer to the bride's parents as a show of respect and gratitude for taking care of her all these years. Traditionally, it was also a way to show the parents of the girl that you have the financial security to support her, and that they are not marrying her off to some baht-less loser.

However, as with many customs around the world in this modern day and age, the custom of "sinsod" is not always followed, and in most cases it is now simply "for show", often agreed upon and arranged together by both parties. This is the case for most middle-class relationships I know of.

[lopburi3]

siamesekitty has said it very well. It is not dowry and would not be recognized in that context by most Thai.

FYI: another route often taken these days is elopement for those who do not have the money to save face or object to it.

[mrbojangles]

Just to put things into perspective as to why Falangaman is asking the question.

I was with him at the Thai Temple yesterday, when the subject was broached. For info, I didn't pay a Sinsod at my wedding, i wasn't asked to and indeed i had never even heard of it until i saw a post on this forum. Out of all the people we asked at the Temple (Farang with Thai wives), everyone had a different view as to what it meant. We then went into the "Thai Culture Class", which is usually run by the Farang Monk (he lived and studied in Thailand for over 20 years) and the question was put to him. He had never heard of it and said he will investigate this week. Strange we thought. We then went to the Thai language class and asked the same question to the (Thai) Teacher. Again, never heard of the word Sin sod. Even stranger, we thought.

This is my understanding but please correct me if i'm wrong.

1 - It is a Thai culture and not just for Farang

2 - The price is negotiated with the parents

3 - It is only shown on the day of the ceremony

4 - It is upto the parents generosity (or agreed beforehand), wether they give some or all back after the ceremony

[Curt]

I'm with siamesekitty.

I really believe it was the way the question was put that led to the people not understanding.

[lopburi3]

1 - It is a Thai culture and not just for Farang

2 - The price is negotiated with the parents

3 - It is only shown on the day of the ceremony

4 - It is upto the parents generosity (or agreed beforehand), wether they give some or all back after the ceremony

I would say you have it right but add that it is normally parents talking with parents where the amount/type is agreed upon.

[thai3]

.

Would I assume then, that its not actually a Thai custom?

I would be very interested in other peoples comments and knowledge. As I said, I know that the subject has had numerous threads, but how can it be that some Thais themselves do not know about this system???

Thanks all, FM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never met a thai who did not understand about sin sott. I know of two thai guys getting married soon but both have had to postpone once due to trouble getting the cash together. One is a teacher marrying a beauty salon owner (very small) and the other works in the entertainment industry, both are paying 200k and 10 baht gold, neither gal is middle class.

I paid 200k but got half back the same day, 4 baht gold which the family made up to 10. cost of wedding was around 50k so mum and dad kept about 50k. However we were given over 30 rai of land so everyone happy. It is a thai custom whatever anyone tells you.-peter

[Heng]

Yes, it's a Thai custom. And yes, for most Thai-Thai weddings, 100% of the funds are typically back in the bank before noon. In fact in more cases than not, that I have seen, the bride's AND groom's family will give the new couple gifts of land, cash, gold, etc.

Yes, it's still called a sinsod (or dowry), but nothing is bought or sold in the process.

[dog412]

are you sure you really want know the thai society's answer to this question?

[mrbojangles]

are you sure you really want know  the thai society's answer to this question?

of course.....if you think you know it

[The_Other_Mac]

are you sure you really want know  the thai society's answer to this question?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[before the flames start...]

Hello new person. Welcome to the forum. This forum includes males and females, young and old, rich and poor, English speakers, farang and Thai. Although it is certainly dominated by older farang men, this thread has already had opinions from all of the above. Each one believes they know the answer.

We'd welcome your opinion. Possibly tempered with a little less arrogance.

[gregchambers]

My Thai nephew just got married (two days ago!) to a Thai girl. He paid 'sin sod'. My brother-in-law paid it when he married his wife. If you have a wedding, you pay it. We didn't have a wedding so I didn't get any

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bloody hel_l how can you say my wife wasn't worth much and then marry her!

[daveh]

It is definitely the custom in Thailand.

The more that is paid the bigger the gain in face for the bride's family.

I paid 100K for my wife.

However it was for show and I got it back in full, later in the day.

Make sure if this will apply in your case!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it is about face, then I would think returning it in full, and in public, would be the most face gain. It would be like saying, we know our daughter is worth a lot, but we really have no need for the money.

[dog412]

I guess what i was thinking was you should get what you pay for. eldest daughter,virgin,land rich parents? i love this country, but i had to face it,it's still asia. everyone pays to their ability,and all has a value. i personaly feel farangs, in general, are undervalued. Tks.ToThe Other Mac for your welcome.

[icecubes]

Just to put things into perspective as to why Falangaman is asking the question.

1 - It is a Thai culture and not just for Farang

2 - The price is negotiated with the parents

3 - It is only shown on the day of the ceremony

4 - It is upto the parents generosity (or agreed beforehand), wether they give some or all back after the ceremony

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with all you state.

One thing to add.

If your darling has been married before no dowry is paid.

It?s a one off payment not to be repeated.

Take note newbie?s in Thailand.

Have a nice day

[westozzie]

It is definitely the custom in Thailand.

The more that is paid the bigger the gain in face for the bride's family.

I paid 100K for my wife.

However it was for show and I got it back in full, later in the day.

Make sure if this will apply in your case!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My dowrie cost me a 150K which I assume my wife decided and it was on show for about a hour then it was divided up amongst the 20 odd immediate family members havent a clue who got what but from my understanding they have a trier system when the oldest members of the family eg: The grand parents get the most and then it goes down the chain of command anyhow in the big picture of things if I married in OZ it would have cost me 600K or about 20K so i am not complaining it was worth every cent when it comes down to it. My wife is self sufficient and has a good job and her family has money so in reality it was money well spent as her father bought her a new car which cost him 600K and I use it all the time so I suppose in my case it was a fair amount.

[Gary A]

As it applies to us "older farang men" it is not anything to be concerned about. It was explained to me that the custom is based on what it cost the parents to raise and educate their daughter. For instance if the girl is highly educated her dowry is expected to be VERY high whereas if a lady has a basic education it is much lower. Foir some upper class Thai families the dowry runs into the millions of baht.

Back to us old farangs. If you have a lick of sense you won't be getting married to a young virgin. You may be tempted to marry a beautiful young bar girl but you are very likely to become a money tree until you tire of passing out money or you are broke. A lady who has been maried before or has children is definately NOT entitled to a dowry. In fact the parents, if they are able, should pay you for taking her and her children off their hands. When my wife and I were considering getting married I asked her about her parents thoughts. She said that it is between the two of us and that her parents were entitled to and would ask for nothing. Since my wife was 37 years old at the time she felt she was well beyond even being considered to have to pay a dowry. She was married to a Thai man previously but was fortunate enough not to have had children.

[ozzydom]

Sister in Laws daughter recently married a Thai man,sin sod 60k with which Sis in Law bought a cow,2 weeks into marriage the daughter walked out so the grooms parents came looking to recoup sin sod, the cash was gone so they loaded up the cow in the truck and took it home.