Pheu Thai Target Thai Youth With Its 15,000 Thb Salary Scheme

[animatic]

Talk is cheap. They didnt mention the side effects yet. Living standards will increase, rent will increase.. whats the use? Food costs 90bht on average per day will be increased to 160 bht. still end up with the same(or less) saving..

Living 'standards' will increase for some new grads and others may well lose.

COST of LIVING will very likely increase, because of costs of production that this brings on artificially.

Tolerable for the new grads making far more than they are worth, but what of all others?

[Bagwan]

Just to administrate this pie in the sky proposal would be virtually impossible in the real world, OK I forgot this is Thailand where we do it the Thai way. What we want, when we want, and how we want to do it.

I guess all the freebees already promised must have missed this group, About 400,000/year if number bandied around are accurate. I can think of no group of voters who have not been promised a lot, by any standard, by Pheu Thai.

Any real campaign manger should have a field day with all the promises being made.

Given an equal spread of real bodies across time there would be about one million Thais for every year of their age. I find it very hard to accept then that 4 or 5 Thai young people out of every 10 graduate from universities so that the figure of between 400,000 and 500,000 seems to have been picked out of the air.

Thirty years ago I scrapped what rejoiced under the name of my company's graduate recruitment scheme. I point blank refused to do the 'milk round' of UK universities seeking out candidates for employment to undergo a two year programme with the target being the creation of top grade computer systems analysts and programmers. With over 3 million unemployed I was content to consider only those who got off their backsides and came looking for me and a job opportunity. That led me to believe that they would be of better character than the over opinionated scruffs waving their bits of paper telling me that they were the best thing since sliced bread. Paying 15K a month for a Thai university graduate? Not on my watch.

[rubl]

Nothing about it being retroactive for past graduates.

2012 grad hired to a company makes 15,000 baht their first month. His supervisor, who has been with the company 4 years (for example) and graduated 5 years ago makes 12,000 baht.

It sure will be interesting office dynamics with that one as well as a whole host of other issues once various situations are thrown at it that required more than the 5 minutes of thought they put into the scheme.

The above analysis is farang thinking. Farang are not voting in this election. Thais don't think analytically like the above scenario. Thais will see the promise of additional money, so they will vote for the party that makes that proposal.

Somehow the reply above from 'maidu' suggests 'farang should shut up, they're not voting anyway' and 'Thai are stupid enough not to understand the consequences'

Personally I'd say using the same logic a few Thai will be really p_ssed off when the party they voted for doesn't manage to deliver within a reasonable time frame, like a month or two.

Edited June 5, 2011 by rubl

[caribbeanman]

i think this a good idea, i mean salaries in thailand are miserables, in china one receptionist in a karaoke bar or in restaurant can esealy make 10.000bat( 2000 yuan) more or less, and the cost o life in china(beijing) is more or less the same that here in BKK, and we don't need to worry too much about it, just think how much is the minimun salary of a new graduate in our home country, and you will see the hugh gap.

A new graduate in our home country doesn't get a minimum salary. They just get paid what the market supports.

bad for your fellows countrymen they should fight to get some kind of law like that. i think that thailand needs a lot of changes, like for example to facilitate forein investment and boost devellopment, to rise not only the salary of the new graduates but the salary of the worker, they also need to make some reforms in their anti-drugs policies, inmigration policies, women rights etc , but unfortunately nor the Dems neither the PTP mention many of this points in their campaigns.

Do you think there would be more foreign investment if companies were forced to pay wages that are too high for both workers and graduates. Even in the west these days, pay rises are given with matching rises in productivity.

Sure, minimum wages need to be increased in Thailand, but setting a minimum wage for graduates will just mean that graduates will find it harder to get jobs and that foreign companies will invest elsewhere if they can't get the quality that they are paying for. That will mean even less positions available for graduates.

i don't think that 15000 is TOOOOOO HIGHHH since now days a new graduate use to get 10000 to 13000, and regarding to feign investment(something that this country desperately needs) the problem is not the wages, (that even if they really implement this policy is gonne continue far lower than in china) but the policies of protectionism and the lack of polical will for develop this country, i personally know many peole who want to invest here but thy don't because of their country's policies and the political inestability. but anyways we are not going to solves these problems so let the Thais setle them by themselves

[whybother]

i don't think that 15000 is TOOOOOO HIGHHH since now days a new graduate use to get 10000 to 13000, and regarding to feign investment(something that this country desperately needs) the problem is not the wages, (that even if they really implement this policy is gonne continue far lower than in china) but the policies of protectionism and the lack of polical will for develop this country, i personally know many peole who want to invest here but thy don't because of their country's policies and the political inestability. but anyways we are not going to solves these problems so let the Thais setle them by themselves

A 20-50% increase is too high. Sure, it needs to increase, but through productivity instead of forced minimum wages. If PTP want to raise minimum graduate wages, then they have to invest in the education system to make the graduates worth 15,000 baht.

[caribbeanman]

i don't think that 15000 is TOOOOOO HIGHHH since now days a new graduate use to get 10000 to 13000, and regarding to feign investment(something that this country desperately needs) the problem is not the wages, (that even if they really implement this policy is gonne continue far lower than in china) but the policies of protectionism and the lack of polical will for develop this country, i personally know many peole who want to invest here but thy don't because of their country's policies and the political inestability. but anyways we are not going to solves these problems so let the Thais setle them by themselves

A 20-50% increase is too high. Sure, it needs to increase, but through productivity instead of forced minimum wages. If PTP want to raise minimum graduate wages, then they have to invest in the education system to make the graduates worth 15,000 baht.

abhisit is offering an increase of the 25% of all the sallaries so they should d same too.

[caribbeanman]

i don't think that 15000 is TOOOOOO HIGHHH since now days a new graduate use to get 10000 to 13000, and regarding to feign investment(something that this country desperately needs) the problem is not the wages, (that even if they really implement this policy is gonne continue far lower than in china) but the policies of protectionism and the lack of polical will for develop this country, i personally know many peole who want to invest here but thy don't because of their country's policies and the political inestability. but anyways we are not going to solves these problems so let the Thais setle them by themselves

A 20-50% increase is too high. Sure, it needs to increase, but through productivity instead of forced minimum wages. If PTP want to raise minimum graduate wages, then they have to invest in the education system to make the graduates worth 15,000 baht.

abhisit is also offering the same , he's offering a 25% increase in all salaries.

[whybother]

A 20-50% increase is too high. Sure, it needs to increase, but through productivity instead of forced minimum wages. If PTP want to raise minimum graduate wages, then they have to invest in the education system to make the graduates worth 15,000 baht.

abhisit is also offering the same , he's offering a 25% increase in all salaries.

Abhisit is offering a 25% increase in minimum wages over 2 years.

PTP is offering a 50% increase in minimum wages immediately. And on top of that, a 20-50% increase in graduate wages immediately.

[krishnak]

i don't think that 15000 is TOOOOOO HIGHHH since now days a new graduate use to get 10000 to 13000, and regarding to feign investment(something that this country desperately needs) the problem is not the wages, (that even if they really implement this policy is gonne continue far lower than in china) but the policies of protectionism and the lack of polical will for develop this country, i personally know many peole who want to invest here but thy don't because of their country's policies and the political inestability. but anyways we are not going to solves these problems so let the Thais setle them by themselves

A 20-50% increase is too high. Sure, it needs to increase, but through productivity instead of forced minimum wages. If PTP want to raise minimum graduate wages, then they have to invest in the education system to make the graduates worth 15,000 baht.

abhisit is also offering the same , he's offering a 25% increase in all salaries.

the only sin of this policy is that it comes from PTP ,cuz if suthep offer the same many people in this forum will celebrate as a great idea

[krishnak]

i don't think that 15000 is TOOOOOO HIGHHH since now days a new graduate use to get 10000 to 13000, and regarding to feign investment(something that this country desperately needs) the problem is not the wages, (that even if they really implement this policy is gonne continue far lower than in china) but the policies of protectionism and the lack of polical will for develop this country, i personally know many peole who want to invest here but thy don't because of their country's policies and the political inestability. but anyways we are not going to solves these problems so let the Thais setle them by themselves

A 20-50% increase is too high. Sure, it needs to increase, but through productivity instead of forced minimum wages. If PTP want to raise minimum graduate wages, then they have to invest in the education system to make the graduates worth 15,000 baht.

abhisit is also offering the same , he's offering a 25% increase in all salaries.

the only sin of this policy is that it comes from PTP ,cuz if suthep offer the same many people in this forum will celebrate as a great idea

[TAWP]

It is easy to see who amongst us have never been a manager or had a company of their own, they celebrate ideas like this. Anyone who has every hired people knows how bad forced minimum salaries are.

[jayboy]

It is easy to see who amongst us have never been a manager or had a company of their own, they celebrate ideas like this. Anyone who has every hired people knows how bad forced minimum salaries are.

Absolutely correct and it's surprising so many of those celebrating this proposal don't realise Thai Visa is stuffed to the brim with high flying corporate hotshots (not deadbeat not very well educated foreign oldsters with way too much time on their hands as some unworthy cynics have it).I say pish to those decryers and may the minimum wage idea be consigned to hell where it belongs.

[whybother]

It is easy to see who amongst us have never been a manager or had a company of their own, they celebrate ideas like this. Anyone who has every hired people knows how bad forced minimum salaries are.

I'm sure that Yingluck paid all of her 6000 AIS employees well over minimum wage. Also, her SC Asset employees (mostly construction) would have enjoyed their relatively high wages too.

[otherstuff1957]

Thai school teachers still start at about 8K/month. On one hand, nearly doubling that figure should attract some sorely needed young talent to the teaching profession. On the other hand, how will teachers with 10 years experience feel about brand new teachers earning about the same amount that they do? (teachers usually get annual increases of 500b/month)

Also, will the schools' budgets be increased to cover this increased pay? Or will costs have to be cut elsewhere?

While more competitive salaries for teachers are needed, this is not the best way to go about it.

[animatic]

i don't think that 15000 is TOOOOOO HIGHHH since now days a new graduate use to get 10000 to 13000, and regarding to feign investment(something that this country desperately needs) the problem is not the wages, (that even if they really implement this policy is gonne continue far lower than in china) but the policies of protectionism and the lack of polical will for develop this country, i personally know many peole who want to invest here but thy don't because of their country's policies and the political inestability. but anyways we are not going to solves these problems so let the Thais setle them by themselves

A 20-50% increase is too high. Sure, it needs to increase, but through productivity instead of forced minimum wages. If PTP want to raise minimum graduate wages, then they have to invest in the education system to make the graduates worth 15,000 baht.

abhisit is also offering the same , he's offering a 25% increase in all salaries.

On minimum wage average workers, who get a fraction of the 15,000 even then.

PTP is offering an insupportable much larger amount. Abhisits is one that won't rock the economy into the doldrums.

Graduated change is much safer for the greater economy than huge jumps in minimum wages or entry level Uni grads.

Huge jumps ALWAYS have unexpected knock on affects that typical hamstring the over all economy and hurt everyone together, rather than simply help one targeted group.

[Buchholz]

the only sin of this policy is that it comes from PTP ,cuz if suthep offer the same many people in this forum will celebrate as a great idea

With the key being that the Democrats are NOT offering it..... which precludes anyone from voicing any opinion on their offering it.

[Buchholz]

Thai school teachers still start at about 8K/month. On one hand, nearly doubling that figure should attract some sorely needed young talent to the teaching profession. On the other hand, how will teachers with 10 years experience feel about brand new teachers earning about the same amount that they do? (teachers usually get annual increases of 500b/month)

Also, will the schools' budgets be increased to cover this increased pay? Or will costs have to be cut elsewhere?

While more competitive salaries for teachers are needed, this is not the best way to go about it.

Going back to Siripon's points, the above is an example of what is unknown about the scheme.

It's unclear if government employees (eg. government school teachers) are even covered by it or if it is strictly only for the civilian sector of the job force.

[jayboy]

the only sin of this policy is that it comes from PTP ,cuz if suthep offer the same many people in this forum will celebrate as a great idea

With the key being that the Democrats are NOT offering it..... which precludes anyone from voicing any opinion on their offering it.

They are not offering it at the moment.But on the other hand they weren't offering a range of populist policies before the rural majority became politically conscious and active.So in the event of the Democrats being able to put together (translation : bribe the minor parties as they did last time) a government after the election expect some version of this policy to emerge.Of course as before there will be the mantra of the PTP version being impractical and counterproductive, while a rather similar policy to encourage young graduates will be implemented.

On a more general theme the Democrats have the disadvantage of being perceived as a rather stuffy and old fashioned party in a country where young people are increasingly dominant.The younger Thais of all classes have little time for deferential behaviour particularly towards the discredited elite, or slithering around on the floor in the presence of their elders and betters.There's a new spirit in the world -the Arab Spring being just one example - and the Thai establishment should adapt to it or be washed away.Basically the Democrats need a PR makeover.

[ianbaggie]

Nothing about it being retroactive for past graduates.

2012 grad hired to a company makes 15,000 baht their first month. His supervisor, who has been with the company 4 years (for example) and graduated 5 years ago makes 12,000 baht.

It sure will be interesting office dynamics with that one as well as a whole host of other issues once various situations are thrown at it that required more than the 5 minutes of thought they put into the scheme.

The above analysis is farang thinking. Farang are not voting in this election. Thais don't think analytically like the above scenario. Thais will see the promise of additional money, so they will vote for the party that makes that proposal.

I think Bucholtz and i realise this .............BUT...................What do they when someone reminds them of their promise - if theyre elected by the poor because the poor expect handouts - how do the poor react when they get nothing after theyve voted in the Pheu Thai................obviously this will not happen - which goes back to my original question of where do the Pheu Thai get the money from to give handouts when they are in power?? - its NOT Farang thinking - Its econom,ic and mathematical science whose laws apply to any economy. WILL Thaksin dig into his own pocket - or will he take the money from the bangkok elite and upset them again? you see people will not provide capital to set up businesses when they are taxed to the hilt to give handouts to the poor.

[scorecard]

Thai school teachers still start at about 8K/month. On one hand, nearly doubling that figure should attract some sorely needed young talent to the teaching profession. On the other hand, how will teachers with 10 years experience feel about brand new teachers earning about the same amount that they do? (teachers usually get annual increases of 500b/month)

Also, will the schools' budgets be increased to cover this increased pay? Or will costs have to be cut elsewhere?

While more competitive salaries for teachers are needed, this is not the best way to go about it.

Here's a twist of the 'acceptance by older teachers' point. My Thai son graduated from the new 5 year bachelor degree in education, which does have some good content about modern teaching theory and technique.

The headmaster at the first school he worked at organized for my son (and two similar graduates) to give a presentation about new methodolgy to the older teachers. Ninety nine percent of the older teachers refused to attend, and sent a serious letter of complaint to the headmaster and the district superintendant, including a demand that they be paid a large increase in salary.

Salary request was refused, however the district superintendent gave a written assurance that they would never be asked again to attend a presentation / and would never to asked to learn any new teaching theory or techniques.

Several older teachers also told my son and his collegaues that they should resign. This was so strong that they did resign.

Imagine the reaction if the starting salary was doubled because 'new graduate'.

[ianbaggie]

the only sin of this policy is that it comes from PTP ,cuz if suthep offer the same many people in this forum will celebrate as a great idea

and many would ask........................where is the money going to come from.............the PTP has no phiscal policy...................EXCEPT as Thaksin did - take the money from the taxes of Bangkok business owners- which increases costs to business and sends the whole system crashing down - thus requiring the army to take over before the country goes into economic meltdown - voila - a justified need for a coup!!!!!!!!!! please try and understand this point - to save pointless posting,.

[krishnak]

that is not a Hugh Jump since in this country you must to be a really unlucky guy for getting a salary infirior than 12000 in you first job.My son got his BD in Business Admistration 2 years ago and since that he has been working for Nippon Express as a Shipping Manager with a salary of 30000 bat , and that prove that that new graduates will get a low or a high salary according to thair capabilities and for all those asking where that PTP is going to get the money to implement this policies i'm guessing that from the same place that abhist got the money to make hughs donations to japan, haiti ,china and many other while the thai people were suffering floods in the south.

Edited June 6, 2011 by krishnak

[geriatrickid]

and many would ask........................where is the money going to come from.............the PTP has no phiscal policy...................EXCEPT as Thaksin did - take the money from the taxes of Bangkok business owners- which increases costs to business and sends the whole system crashing down - thus requiring the army to take over before the country goes into economic meltdown - voila - a justified need for a coup!!!!!!!!!! please try and understand this point - to save pointless posting,.

Your position is based upon the assumption that the Bangkok business owners are actually paying their taxes and that the taxes levied are equitable.

The proposal of 15,000 baht is akin to that of minimum wage. The current wages paid to employees are inequitable. There would be no need for intervention if employers behaved in a responsible manner.

Many employers in the service industry churn their workers, getting rid of employees before they qualify for better benefits such as additional vacation days, health benefits or severance protection. Perhaps now, some employers will not be so quick to change over staff. I can think of the names of some large service sector companies that engage in this practice on Phuket. None of the operators are foreign though.

I don't know about the rest of Thailand, but Phuket's employers discourage employees for taking continuing education. There is no time off to allow students to attend the university classes held on Saturdays and Sundays. If employers were less greedy and stupid, I would be more sympathetic.

BTW, didn't you claim to be a professor or instructor at a university? If so, I sincerely hope that you do not write in this fashion when preparing your lectures. Horrid syntax, and the spelling, my goodness. Fiscal Policy, not phiscal policy.

[rubl]

that is not a Hugh Jump since in this country you must to be a really unlucky guy for getting a salary infirior than 12000 in you first job.My son got his BD in Business Admistration 2 years ago and since that he has been working for Nippon Express as a Shipping Manager with a salary of 30000 bat , and that prove that that new graduates will get a low or a high salary according to thair capabilities and for all those asking where that PTP is going to get the money to implement this policies i'm guessing that from the same place that abhist got the money to make hughs donations to japan, haiti ,china and many other while the thai people were suffering floods in the south.

It's normal for a government to make token donations in cash or goods to befriended countries when those suffer from disasters. These donations are taken from the normal budget without putting extra strain on it. Actually sometimes these donations seem so small that it's embarrassing

2010-01-20 "Thailand, embarrassed and ridiculed for its low donation to Haiti, offers more"

http://www.examiner.com/asia-travel-in-national/thailand-embarrassed-and-ridiculed-for-its-low-donation-to-haiti-offers-more

[jayboy]

BTW, didn't you claim to be a professor or instructor at a university? If so, I sincerely hope that you do not write in this fashion when preparing your lectures. Horrid syntax, and the spelling, my goodness. Fiscal Policy, not phiscal policy.

I hope you're not suggesting he's phibbing.

[krishnak]

that is not a Hugh Jump since in this country you must to be a really unlucky guy for getting a salary infirior than 12000 in you first job.My son got his BD in Business Admistration 2 years ago and since that he has been working for Nippon Express as a Shipping Manager with a salary of 30000 bat , and that prove that that new graduates will get a low or a high salary according to thair capabilities and for all those asking where that PTP is going to get the money to implement this policies i'm guessing that from the same place that abhist got the money to make hughs donations to japan, haiti ,china and many other while the thai people were suffering floods in the south.

It's normal for a government to make token donations in cash or goods to befriended countries when those suffer from disasters. These donations are taken from the normal budget without putting extra strain on it. Actually sometimes these donations seem so small that it's embarrassing

2010-01-20 "Thailand, embarrassed and ridiculed for its low donation to Haiti, offers more"

http://www.examiner....iti-offers-more

the fact that that is a normal practice doesn't mean that it is right,abhist is very hypocritical when he is sending money to japan(not in small quatities) while in his own country he has lots of people who had lost almost everything and the only smart thing that he cames to say was that they didn't have enough money in their budget for national emergencies so they can not help :hahhahhaha hilarious isn't it?

[Neurath]

Thai school teachers still start at about 8K/month. On one hand, nearly doubling that figure should attract some sorely needed young talent to the teaching profession. On the other hand, how will teachers with 10 years experience feel about brand new teachers earning about the same amount that they do? (teachers usually get annual increases of 500b/month)

Also, will the schools' budgets be increased to cover this increased pay? Or will costs have to be cut elsewhere?

While more competitive salaries for teachers are needed, this is not the best way to go about it.

Going back to Siripon's points, the above is an example of what is unknown about the scheme.

It's unclear if government employees (eg. government school teachers) are even covered by it or if it is strictly only for the civilian sector of the job force.

Agreed.

First, Government Officials will not be covered by this for the simple reason that there is no money to cover it and it would destroy the Office of the Civil Service Commission - a new minted level 2/3 Civil Servant being paid twice that of 10 year veteran with the same or higher qualifications? Not going to happen.

Second, there is no legal provision, and no possibility of getting such legal provision, to enforce this in the private sector.

Just hot air.

[whybother]

the fact that that is a normal practice doesn't mean that it is right,abhist is very hypocritical when he is sending money to japan(not in small quatities) while in his own country he has lots of people who had lost almost everything and the only smart thing that he cames to say was that they didn't have enough money in their budget for national emergencies so they can not help :hahhahhaha hilarious isn't it?

Which national emergencies did the government NOT assist affected people?

[Buchholz]

that is not a Hugh Jump since in this country you must to be a really unlucky guy for getting a salary infirior than 12000 in you first job.My son got his BD in Business Admistration 2 years ago and since that he has been working for Nippon Express as a Shipping Manager with a salary of 30000 bat , and that prove that that new graduates will get a low or a high salary according to thair capabilities and for all those asking where that PTP is going to get the money to implement this policies i'm guessing that from the same place that abhist got the money to make hughs donations to japan, haiti ,china and many other while the thai people were suffering floods in the south.

It's normal for a government to make token donations in cash or goods to befriended countries when those suffer from disasters. These donations are taken from the normal budget without putting extra strain on it. Actually sometimes these donations seem so small that it's embarrassing

2010-01-20 "Thailand, embarrassed and ridiculed for its low donation to Haiti, offers more"

http://www.examiner....iti-offers-more

the fact that that is a normal practice

Speaking of normal practices, your newly graduated son making 30K a month is certainly not normal in Thailand. Most grads don't make anywhere near that, which is why if this scheme were actually ever come to pass, it would raise either unemployment with the new graduates or inflation for everyone else who is charged the passed-along extra increases for the businesses paying them.

[ianbaggie]

and many would ask........................where is the money going to come from.............the PTP has no phiscal policy...................EXCEPT as Thaksin did - take the money from the taxes of Bangkok business owners- which increases costs to business and sends the whole system crashing down - thus requiring the army to take over before the country goes into economic meltdown - voila - a justified need for a coup!!!!!!!!!! please try and understand this point - to save pointless posting,.

Your position is based upon the assumption that the Bangkok business owners are actually paying their taxes and that the taxes levied are equitable.

The proposal of 15,000 baht is akin to that of minimum wage. The current wages paid to employees are inequitable. There would be no need for intervention if employers behaved in a responsible manner.

Many employers in the service industry churn their workers, getting rid of employees before they qualify for better benefits such as additional vacation days, health benefits or severance protection. Perhaps now, some employers will not be so quick to change over staff. I can think of the names of some large service sector companies that engage in this practice on Phuket. None of the operators are foreign though.

I don't know about the rest of Thailand, but Phuket's employers discourage employees for taking continuing education. There is no time off to allow students to attend the university classes held on Saturdays and Sundays. If employers were less greedy and stupid, I would be more sympathetic.

BTW, didn't you claim to be a professor or instructor at a university? If so, I sincerely hope that you do not write in this fashion when preparing your lectures. Horrid syntax, and the spelling, my goodness. Fiscal Policy, not phiscal policy.

Can you provide us with evidence that Bangkok business owners do not provide tax funding for Thailand. I ask you again - where will the funding for this scheme come from? Since you are incapable of providing a simple mathematical analysis of the problem can you tell me - 500,000 students come out of Thai universities every year

15,000 X 500,000 = 7,500,000,000 baht (thats 7.5 billion), wages in a free economy are allowed to float and based on supply and demand. Thai companies like every other country in the world have to compete with low wage economies - this makes them uncompetitive if they pay higher wages and give the benefits which youre suggesting - I dont know many western companies which offer the same extra non financial benefits which you naively seem to suggest.

Perhaps you could link us to and name the companies which engage in the [prcatices you mention?? Also youre post suggests workers work 7 days a week without a day off?? Again a very strange claim to make. Thailand has very few major employers only one in 1230 businesses (source: business world Asia) has more than 5 employees - Id say these businesses have different ground rules wouldnt you?

No I didnt claim to be a professor at University - something else you might like to get facts straight about!! Thank you for the gramatical analysis and spell check - I bet you inspect the tv for dust while your wife stands to attention too dont you? I can recommend a book on cost analysis if youd like me to!! Might save you from embarrasing yourself.