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Bitcoins As A Medium Of Exchange


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what do forum members think of the prospects for bitcoin as a medium of exchange or to store value both long and short-term? i am especially curious about how long it will take governments to realize what a threat this is to their power, and how you think they might attempt to regulate it.

as an aside, do you actually like the idea of an anonymous currency or do you think it creates more problems than it solves? the one thing that cash has going against it (for criminals) is bulk, and because of the bulk illicit trade is forced to use banks- which helps law enforcement. but with electronic currency there is no bulk.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/27/3271637/bitcoin-savings-trust-pyramid-scheme-shuts-down

http://www.dailytech.com/Pirateat40+Makes+Off+56M+USD+in+BitCoins+From+Pyramid+Scheme/article25538.htm

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i am especially curious about how long it will take governments to realize what a threat this is to their power, and how you think they might attempt to regulate it.

governments are not threatened by lukewarm farts, such as bitcoins, and have therefore no plans to regulate them... no matter what certain websites might suggest.

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i am especially curious about how long it will take governments to realize what a threat this is to their power, and how you think they might attempt to regulate it.

governments are not threatened by lukewarm farts, such as bitcoins, and have therefore no plans to regulate them... no matter what certain websites might suggest.

They might be making plans to make plans though...

http://gawker.com/5805928/the-underground-website-where-you-can-buy-any-drug-imaginable

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Bitcoin is nothing else than an elaborate pyramid scheme, the ones that started it did get loads, by the time it gets mainstream it's useless/valueless.

It's a nice green currency as well, burn electricity by the truckload to get more...

Anyways, idiocy.

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i am especially curious about how long it will take governments to realize what a threat this is to their power, and how you think they might attempt to regulate it.

governments are not threatened by lukewarm farts, such as bitcoins, and have therefore no plans to regulate them... no matter what certain websites might suggest.

They might be making plans to make plans though...

http://gawker.com/5805928/the-underground-website-where-you-can-buy-any-drug-imaginable

" The same people who brought you Wikileaks are back, and this time, they’ve created a virtual currency called Bitcoin that could destabilize the entire global financial system.And that’s where things start to get interesting. Veteran tech guru Jason Calacanis recently called Bitcoin the most dangerous open source project he’s ever seen "

http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/what-happens-when-anonymous-gets-a-bank-bitcoin/

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Jdietz do you think that there is short-term legitimacy of bitcoins as a currency? If I can buy a coin and then spend it, is it not serving its purpose? Are you mostly opposed to it in the long-term?

Isn't the electricity spent a lot less damaging than the resources used by international financial institutions, or do you agree with those that say because banking creates jobs it is legitimate and bitcoins are not?

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just another thought for those who care to comment. shadow banking is as old as civilization itself. we have systems like hawala that are used in some countries like a Westerner uses 7-11. what's the big deal? please share your thoughts

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interesting article on seeker401. is there a real link to Wikileaks or is this imagined by the author?

i found this a strange statement:

"However, remember that computer algorithm I mentioned earlier? Well, it controls the value of all those Bitcoins in circulation. The greater the demand, the higher the value of the Bitcoins."

it seems that supply and demand control the value, am i wrong on this? the algorithm only controls the number of coins in circulation while also verifying/processing transactions.

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Bitcoin is nothing else than an elaborate pyramid scheme, the ones that started it did get loads, by the time it gets mainstream it's useless/valueless.

It's a nice green currency as well, burn electricity by the truckload to get more...

Anyways, idiocy.

Bitcoin Fiat Money is nothing else than an elaborate pyramid scheme, the ones Banks/Central Banks that started it did get loads, by the time it gets mainstream to society/the man on the street it's useless/valueless.

It's a nice green currency as well, burn electricity by the truckload to get more...

Jdietz I could not have summed up the current system any more succinctly myself :rolleyes:

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Bubble is already bursting, people selling their "mining rigs" now that it costs more in power than the 'bitcoin' is worth. At least high-end video cards will be cheap for a while on Ebay, so something good may well come out of it.

Edit: of course the criminals using botnets etc. to harvest coins for them on your power bill may still come in ahead.

Edited by Jdietz
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interesting article on seeker401. is there a real link to Wikileaks or is this imagined by the author?

i found this a strange statement:

"However, remember that computer algorithm I mentioned earlier? Well, it controls the value of all those Bitcoins in circulation. The greater the demand, the higher the value of the Bitcoins."

it seems that supply and demand control the value, am i wrong on this? the algorithm only controls the number of coins in circulation while also verifying/processing transactions.

hi monkeyface

yes I have been fascinated by this concept also. Take a look at this interview with two of the founders

of Bitcoin - BUT PLEASE A WARNING - advance through the clip and start watching it is about 7.15 minutes

i.e. dont watch the first 7 min otherwise you will be bored )and there is no need for you to watch

the last 30 min because the part about Bitcoin finishes at about 35 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwNfBgwbqng&feature=player_embedded

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great link Midas. i guess if the CIA invited this guy to speak about bitcoin then it is on the gov't radar. i'm not bored with this thing yet!

one other point- cash business thrives at so many levels. you surely can store your bitcoins on a thumbdrive and you can bury money in mason jars. but either can be declared for tax purposes as well. what is the gov't to do- require everyone who buys a coke from a local mom and pop to use a debit card? cash is NOT new.

another good link- the presentation to the CIA folk:

http://mbank.ro/bitcoin-cia-eyes-fed-alternative/

Edited by monekyface
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great link Midas. i guess if the CIA invited this guy to speak about bitcoin then it is on the gov't radar. i'm not bored with this thing yet!

one other point- cash business thrives at so many levels. you surely can store your bitcoins on a thumbdrive and you can bury money in mason jars. but either can be declared for tax purposes as well. what is the gov't to do- require everyone who buys a coke from a local mom and pop to use a debit card? cash is NOT new.

another good link- the presentation to the CIA folk:

http://mbank.ro/bitcoin-cia-eyes-fed-alternative/

the thing is I think we have to be open-minded about everything and I have to say

these two young guys are far more believable than Ben Shalom Bernanke :whistling:

Edited by midas
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Bubble is already bursting, people selling their "mining rigs" now that it costs more in power than the 'bitcoin' is worth. At least high-end video cards will be cheap for a while on Ebay, so something good may well come out of it.

Edit: of course the criminals using botnets etc. to harvest coins for them on your power bill may still come in ahead.

Thank goodness we don't all think the same way eh Jdietz? :rolleyes:

post-6925-0-49940900-1307287026_thumb.jp

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Bubble is already bursting, people selling their "mining rigs" now that it costs more in power than the 'bitcoin' is worth. At least high-end video cards will be cheap for a while on Ebay, so something good may well come out of it.

Edit: of course the criminals using botnets etc. to harvest coins for them on your power bill may still come in ahead.

Obviously FUD. Mining is still quite profitable and will remain to do so even if the price falls/crash. Those people who are selling probably have other reasons such as heat (summer is coming up), lack of space, etc.

Personally I think bitcoin is a game changer and even if it fails, there will be successors. The genie is out of the bag. When I discovered bitcoin (around feb after listening to Steve Gibson's "security now" podcast which by the way is another excellent technical intro to bitcoin), I got the same feeling when I first discovered bittorrent a few years ago. This is another powerful disruptive technology that is going to create some waves on the web. Like I said even if bitcoin itself fails it doesn't mean this new protocol/idea/concept is going to fade.

Of course I don't have all the years of financial experience that many on this board do (frankly none) but I feel that I understand technology/web very well and honestly think this is going to be one of the most disruptive idea to come out of the web.

Now like everyone else I'm curious on what might happen in a few months to the next 2 years. Either way I'm throwing in my mining rigs into this and whatever comes out after if it fails or not, I will be contributing mining to it/successors (which secures the network BTW ;))

The Bitcoin discussion starts at 41:56

Edited by Darvil
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Naam what do you think is the biggest barrier to widespread acceptance?

nobody in his right mind will send his hard earned money to a place without any guarantees, unclear jurisdiction, wishi-washi valuation, etc., etc., etc.

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just another thought for those who care to comment. shadow banking is as old as civilization itself. we have systems like hawala that are used in some countries like a Westerner uses 7-11. what's the big deal? please share your thoughts

hawala in Urdu, Farsi and Arabic means "trust". that trust was earned during those more than four decades. but that is just an information of secondary importance.

important is that using hawala or its "siblings" one deals with "tangible" natural persons on each end. tangible means that their throats can be slit or skulls bashed in case of fraud or attempted fraud. those who founded hawala have made it clear from the very beginning what awaits participants who don't adhere to the rules.

p.s. that something like hawala existed surprised me in 1975 when i took a job in Saudi Arabia.

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Bitcoins are bullshit.

People take a currency because:

- they know it is valuable in itself (like gold)

- someone powerful (government) looks after its value

but suckers are born every minute who fall for BS presented that suits there way of thinking. otherwise why would people still get cheated by "nigerian" shit which in most cases is presented that even a fool should realise it's BS?

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Personally I think bitcoin is a game changer and even if it fails, there will be successors. The genie is out of the bag.

Bingo ! because the alternative is too..... erm painful :ermm:

post-6925-0-87927300-1307329925_thumb.jp

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Bitcoins are bullshit.

People take a currency because:

- they know it is valuable in itself (like gold)

- someone powerful (government) looks after its value

oh yes... like those in charge of the very powerful Euro ! :cheesy: :cheesy:

" And then there were the lies. Jean-Claude Juncker, the prime minister of Luxembourg, had his spokesman deny that a meeting of European Union finance ministers on the Greek crisis was taking place, even though that meeting was in fact taking place. It wasn't the kind of lie that frequently crops up in politics: the broken campaign promise. Rather, it was more crass type of untruth: the denial of a reality. Juncker no longer had the courage to speak the truth. He was guided by fear of the financial markets. His lie was a capitulation of politics."

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- someone powerful (government) looks after its value

oh yes... like those in charge of the very powerful Euro ! :cheesy: :cheesy:

perhaps you should stop "rofl"-ing and take a look at the EUR to realise that the € is quite strong vs. all dollar-pegged currencies. of course hardly any government is "looking after the value" of its specific currency. on the contrary, too strong a currency causes problems for those countries which depend on exports. german manufacturers would love to see a much weaker EUR and swiss companies suffer from the strength of CHF. if it wasn't for the PIIGS the EUR would have gone already through the roof.

currencies which are presently relatively strong (e.g. AUD, NZD, BRL) are used for carry trades and therefore vulnerable to huge swings of 30-50% as the last 10-15 years demonstrate.

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- someone powerful (government) looks after its value

oh yes... like those in charge of the very powerful Euro ! :cheesy: :cheesy:

perhaps you should stop "rofl"-ing and take a look at the EUR to realise that the € is quite strong vs. all dollar-pegged currencies. of course hardly any government is "looking after the value" of its specific currency. on the contrary, too strong a currency causes problems for those countries which depend on exports. german manufacturers would love to see a much weaker EUR and swiss companies suffer from the strength of CHF. if it wasn't for the PIIGS the EUR would have gone already through the roof.

currencies which are presently relatively strong (e.g. AUD, NZD, BRL) are used for carry trades and therefore vulnerable to huge swings of 30-50% as the last 10-15 years demonstrate.

I continue to laugh and in your post 22 you denigrate people who are sucked in by

Nigerian scams and yet I see very little difference between the Nigerian scamsters

and the European " scamsters ". In fact the European scamsters are potentially more dangerous and the European taxpayers are paying the salaries

of the scamsters.That is even more funny :lol:

People continue to have faith in nothing more than a concept which is clearly

under the management of pathological liars :rolleyes:

As Nigel Farrell quite rightly said:-

" But it is even more serious than economics. Because if you rob people of their identity, if you rob them of their democracy, then all they are left with is nationalism and violence. I can only hope and pray that the Euro project is destroyed by the markets before that really happens."

Edited by midas
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I do take a bit of an offense at the "Nigerian scam". I mean it should be a bit more high brow then that because this bitcoin is actually quite a sophisticated piece of work. Very beautiful in the way its done and seems like everything has already been thought off (for example what incentives do miners have after all the coins have been discovered etc). But of course the detractors don't understand or bother to even to try to understand it. But thats ok because everytime there is a game changer technology it usually leaves alot of people in the dust.

How many of us here actually realized some of the big game changing technology in the past like search ads (google), facebook, digg, reddit etc (social), napster, bittorrent (digital distribution), mobile applications (apps!), Steam (gaming), VOIP, etc etc.

The next few months is going to get real interesting.

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I do take a bit of an offense at the "Nigerian scam". I mean it should be a bit more high brow then that because this bitcoin is actually quite a sophisticated piece of work. Very beautiful in the way its done and seems like everything has already been thought off (for example what incentives do miners have after all the coins have been discovered etc). But of course the detractors don't understand or bother to even to try to understand it. But thats ok because everytime there is a game changer technology it usually leaves alot of people in the dust.

How many of us here actually realized some of the big game changing technology in the past like search ads (google), facebook, digg, reddit etc (social), napster, bittorrent (digital distribution), mobile applications (apps!), Steam (gaming), VOIP, etc etc.

The next few months is going to get real interesting.

Exactly!

Darvil many of the detractors you refer to didn't even believe there was a financial crisis going on

until it was so close up to their face they could no longer continue to live in denial :lol:

30 years ago in Australia I introduced a business concept that 90% of people

said couldn't be done but I ignored everyone and went ahead anyway and made an absolute fortune :lol:

but the best part is that while I had a monopoly for about six years my competitors

ended up being the very people who publicly said at the beginning I would fail :whistling:

So detractors don't bother me in the slightest.

From my own experience I have learnt there are those that are simply quicker at recognising

a game changer than others.

Edited by midas
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