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Posted

First of all, thanks for the advise so far.

Second question: I'm a normal working guy/stiff whose Thai girlfriend (hopefully) is giving birth to our first child in the UK.

Question: she's been here a couple of times before (no problems with visa, never overstayed etc) but she get's pretty lonely when I'm not around and - assuming she gets her visa - will have our baby in England without the support of her extended Thai family. So; If her brother were to apply for a visitors visa to keep her company/look after her for six months, what's his chances of getting it (her mother will be looking after her dog and wouldn't last 5 mins in London)?

Do UK Visa's/embassty appreciate this concept or will they assume he's too high risk (ie. will run of to join a restaurant/circus) and not return? What info other than the run-of-the-mill would be relevant to them to ensure they think otherwise? I'm confident I can demonstrate I can support them both (decent enough salary, own property etc). Basically, is anyone aware of similar circumstances, precendents, special procedures and/or got any advise/anecdotes?

FYI the brother IS her brother, is married, with a child, and was some kind of local official before losing an election (not sure what you would call his job, but he introduced to me to the Chief Of Police in Lamphun and they seemed to get on well enough) so he's got a reason to return and presumably has some kind of "status"?

Thanks in advance for any useful advise and apologies if I've posted this in the wrong place again, Scouse.

25th of May, eh! Good on you. Like to see you do it again this year though

Cheers :o

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Posted

Watson, until you have your Decree Absolute, your girlfriend cannot apply for a settlement visa on the basis of her relationship with you, unless she qualifies as an unmarried partner. Have you been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last 2 years?

If she is coming to the UK with a visit visa, she cannot use the NHS to have her baby. As she is currently pregnant it is highly likely that any ECO will conclude that the purpose of her visit is to do just that, and so refuse the visa.

She can, however, come to the UK as a visitor to have her baby in a private hospital, see Can I get medical treatment in the UK?

Obviously, if she is not in the UK then her brother will have no reason for needing a visa. If she is in the UK as a visitor for private medical treatment, then providing he satisfies the criteria, then it is possible that her brother would get a visit visa as well. If she is here with a settlement visa then this also means he could get a visit visa to visit her. The main point being "Reason to Return." A wife and child in Thailand may not be sufficient. Many Thais travel abroad to work and send money home.

I do know one couple where the wifes sister was granted a visit visa so she could help in the early months after the birth, so it is possible. But, were I an ECO I would be wondering why it is a male family member that is coming to help her with the baby. Surely it is usually a female?

Posted
Watson, until you have your Decree Absolute, your girlfriend cannot apply for a settlement visa on the basis of her relationship with you, unless she qualifies as an unmarried partner. Have you been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last 2 years?

If she is coming to the UK with a visit visa, she cannot use the NHS to have her baby. As she is currently pregnant it is highly likely that any ECO will conclude that the purpose of her visit is to do just that, and so refuse the visa.

She can, however, come to the UK as a visitor to have her baby in a private hospital, see Can I get medical treatment in the UK?

Obviously, if she is not in the UK then her brother will have no reason for needing a visa. If she is in the UK as a visitor for private medical treatment, then providing he satisfies the criteria, then it is possible that her brother would get a visit visa as well. If she is here with a settlement visa then this also means he could get a visit visa to visit her. The main point being "Reason to Return." A wife and child in Thailand may not be sufficient. Many Thais travel abroad to work and send money home.

I do know one couple where the wifes sister was granted a visit visa so she could help in the early months after the birth, so it is possible. But, were I an ECO I would be wondering why it is a male family member that is coming to help her with the baby. Surely it is usually a female?

Posted

Hi,

Well, her mother's "too old" to come to the UK and she doesn't have a sister, but i take your point, i shouldn't be jumping the gun and thinking about bringing over her brother before she's even given permission to come over here. I had same advise from a friend as well.

I spoke to UK embassy in BKK this morning and a helpful chap told me that she should apply for a fiancee settlement visa NOW, stating on the covering letter the situation (ie. she's pregnant, i'm waiting for my Decree Absolute to come through any day now, am unable to get married as i'm still technically married etc).

He seemed to think that i would have a good chance of success given that she's already been here 2 times before and complied with all the conditions of the previous visas, so i'm hopeful at least.

However, I wasn't sure whether he was implying she could come to the UK on a fiancee visa without my having a Decree Absolute. I take it not - from what you said in your last email? Can you please confirm?

Also an interesting point about the NHS. Could you please let me know if she can have our baby on the NHS through a fiancee settlement visa? God knows I pay enough tax.

Thanks again for your time and advise.

Posted (edited)

From my experience, she can apply for a fiance visa now, but they wont issue one until after you have your Decree Absolute. What you can do is make the application and include a covering letter to say that you expect to have your Decree on (date) and asking for an interview shortly after that date. However, the guy at the embassy knows more about this than any one here, so maybe ask him to clarify. It may be that, given the circumstances, they are prepared to issue a fiance visa before you have the Decree.

Once she is here with a fiance visa, she cannot claim public funds (with a few exceptions) but she will be entitled to treatment on the NHS.

Edited by GU22
Posted

Thanks GU22, you've been very helpful.

Will let you all know how i get on. I'm sure i'll be back with loads more questions/answers which i hope will be useful not just for me but for other members now or in the future.

Keep your fingers crossed for us please!

Cheers

Posted
Do UK Visa's/embassty appreciate this concept or will they assume he's too high risk (ie. will run of to join a restaurant/circus) and not return?

There is a chance of that. However, it depends upon the brother's circumstances in Thailand.

From what you've posted it does, indeed, seem that your fiancée has a good chance of getting the visa. However, being free to marry is a prerequisite and if the embassy were to issue her such a visa, irrespective of her pregnancy, the visa officer issuing it would, himself, be in breach of the immigration rules. So, although, you can make the application now, it won't be determined until such a time as your decree absolute is through.

Scouse.

Posted

OK - got it.

Decree Absolute is mandatory to get a fiancee visa given the circumstances.

Thanks for the clarification.

Posted

Guys,

In my invitation letter for my g/f to the UK Embassy, is it wise to ask the Embassy if it is possiible to "process the application and conduct any necessary interviews before they receive my Decree Absolute", or will they tell me to sod off?

What's the likely scenario:

1) They process the application, wait to receive the faxed Decree Absolute, and then organise an interview, or

2) They wait for the faxed Decree Absolute, then process the application and then organise an interview?

3) something else.

Anyone know?

Cheers

Posted

Thanks to Scouse for clarifying the rules.

Watson, it appears that your only option is to do as I suggested in my previous, i.e. say that you expect to have your Decree on (date) and asking for an interview shortly after that date.

What would happen if the Decree had not arrived by the time of the interview, I don't know.

They could either:-

Conduct the interview, but hold off issuing the visa until you had presented them with it.

or:-

Conduct the interview, but refuse the visa because you don't have it.

I would put the application in and request an interview date for after you expect to receive the Decree. If the date of the interview is approaching, but the Decree has not arrived, then contact the embassy and ask for the interview to be postponed. The risk here, of course, is that means the eventual interview date may too close to her due date for her to safely travel.

Posted

cheers, unless anyone knows 100% for sure the procedure i think the 2 scenarios you gave are both possible and as probable to happen as each other.

if anyone knows for sure however, please post.

Cheers guys

Posted

Watson , Have you considered the time frame in all of this. Getting a fiancee visa can take some time. Recently there was a 10 week waiting period between lodging the application and getting an interview, and then it can take a few months after the interview to get approval . Keeping in mind that the airlines will not carry your partner if she is more than 7 months pregnant.

Posted
and then it can take a few months after the interview to get approval.
Not for the UK. If the visa is approved then the applicant will be informed the same day as the interview, next day at latest, and asked to return the following day to collect it.

However, Cobber, you are correct in saying that Watson needs to move quickly if he wants to get it all sorted before his girlfriends pregnancy is too far advanced for her to fly.

Posted

Quite right about the delays. In my recent experience (last month) we had to wait a total of 16 weeks from the date of submitting the application to the actual interview. The interview was successful and the Visa issued that day. Your going to struggle for time here Watson. Another possibility (but again dodgy) is if you wait until you have your decree Absoloute and go to the Embassy with everything in order. There then could be a chance of a short interview, very quickly.

Posted

Cheers guys, i'm aware of the need for speed.

However, i'm trying to act as fast as i can! I found out for sure 10 days ago and couldn't get hold of UK Visas in the UK for love or money - so i called the UK embassy in BKK this morning. I know I should have posted here sooner for some advise, but I didn't think of it! OK? java script:emoticon(':D')

I'm hoping to get the application filled in and ready for her signature tomorrow via email and send all the normal visa stuff by FedEx to BKK. She can then post the application to our friend in BKK to drop everything off at the embassy. G/F lives near Lamphun - don't want her to travel unnecessarily in case it causes problems with the baby.

FYI she's still under 1.5 months pregnant. I'm obviously desperately hoping i can sort it all out in time and I'm trying to keep positive here!! But at the end of the day it's all dependent on the Decree Absolute and you don't want to get me started on how utterly incompetent my divorce lawyer is. Suffice to say I've had more arguments with him than my ex-wife!

BTW, assuming nothing goes wrong, is it better we marry ASAP prior to baby being born (ideally in the UK)? I understood there's all sorts of problems with getting the baby a dual passport/citizenship etc if we don't tie the knot prior to the birth.

Is this correct?

Anyone got knowledge of this?

Best:

Posted

If the child is born outside of wedlock, he/she will not automatically be British. However, a subsequent marriage will, generally, legitimise the birth.

Cheers,

Scouse.

Posted

Watson, if time allows it would be worth getting married in Thailand instead of the UK. Why? It will save you money in the long term.

If she enters the UK with a fiance visa then once you have married she will need to apply for Further Leave to Remain (FLR) and then 2 years later apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Each application currently costs £335 by post or £500 in person. Marrying in Thailand means she can apply for a 2 year spouse visa and so cut out the FLR stage, saving at least £335.

Just a thought.

Posted

I like the way you think GU22.

Glad to see I'm not the only one Thai's refer to as "stingy" :o

I'm going to give this some consideration for sure,

Posted

OK thought about it!

FYI I intend to be living in Thailand in maybe 2.5 yrs, and it normally costs me about £500 to fly out there. So I reckon it's cheaper to fly g/f over here (UK), get married, apply for settlement after 6 months (£330+) and then fly back out together once we are married. Make sense or am I missing something?

BTW, anyone know up to what age a baby can generally fly for free to Thailand and whether some airlines are better than others in this respect? Or does this "kid travels for free" fare only apply to London buses these days?

Cheers

Posted

just a question about your g/f & the birth. speaking as a woman, would she not feel more comfortable having the baby in thailand with her own family around her & in her own enviroment & in her own language, then travelling to the UK with you & baby as a married women, which will also help your visa process (if a baby aint proof of a relationship I don't know what is?!) It is though none of my business and I wish u luck with whatever course you decide to take :o

Posted

Fair point, but speaking as a man, I have obviously asked her about this and she has told me she wants to come to the UK to have the baby with me. The initial post I made was about trying to get a member of her family over here - the brother as he is in the only family member to be in a position to do so - but as it's been pointed out to me by other members, I've got to do things in order ie. make sure she can actually get a visa first before worrying about her family being here.

Anyway, if it turns out she cannot get a visa, then she'll be able to have our baby with her family anyway and so be it - but this is currently not her first choice.

Many thanks for your well wishes Boo! :o

Posted
OK thought about it!

FYI I intend to be living in Thailand in maybe 2.5 yrs, and it normally costs me about £500 to fly out there. So I reckon it's cheaper to fly g/f over here (UK), get married, apply for settlement after 6 months (£330+) and then fly back out together once we are married. Make sense or am I missing something?

BTW, anyone know up to what age a baby can generally fly for free to Thailand and whether some airlines are better than others in this respect? Or does this "kid travels for free" fare only apply to London buses these days?

Cheers

Immigration costs:-

1. To come to the UK as a fiancé(e)

£260.00 for the settlement visa (valid for 6 months)

£335.00 for the in-country extension once married (valid for 2 years)

2. To marry in Thailand and then come to the UK.

£260.00 for the settlement visa (valid 2 years)

£335.00 for indefinite leave to remain application.

If your wife will be staying in the UK for only 2 1/2 years, then the actual cost of visas/extensions works out the same. However, should you choose to marry in Thailand, you wife would subsequently leave the UK with indefinite leave to remain.

Scouse.

Posted

Immigration costs:-

1. To come to the UK as a fiancé(e)

£260.00 for the settlement visa (valid for 6 months)

£335.00 for the in-country extension once married (valid for 2 years)

2. To marry in Thailand and then come to the UK.

£260.00 for the settlement visa (valid 2 years)

£335.00 for indefinite leave to remain application.

If your wife will be staying in the UK for only 2 1/2 years, then the actual cost of visas/extensions works out the same. However, should you choose to marry in Thailand, you wife would subsequently leave the UK with indefinite leave to remain.

Scouse.

Cheers, though I didn't make myself clear in a previous post as I was also factoring in the cost of the flight for myself to Thailand from UK (c. £500) in what is your scenario 2 - a cost I would not incur in your scenario 1.

Could you please define what an "indefinite leave to remain" means? Does it mean if we marry in Thailand and she gets a settlement visa from the UK embassy she can leave the UK within 2.5 yrs and subsequently come back to the UK and stay indefinitely? Would this also apply to a child of ours? If so, this would be a reason enough to marry in Thailand, but I assume I've misunderstood?

Posted

Cheers, though I didn't make myself clear in a previous post as I was also factoring in the cost of the flight for myself to Thailand from UK (c. £500) in what is your scenario 2 - a cost I would not incur in your scenario 1.

Could you please define what an "indefinite leave to remain" means? Does it mean if we marry in Thailand and she gets a settlement visa from the UK embassy she can leave the UK within 2.5 yrs and subsequently come back to the UK and stay indefinitely? Would this also apply to a child of ours? If so, this would be a reason enough to marry in Thailand, but I assume I've misunderstood?

Posted

Post-marriage, whether hitched in either the UK or Thailand, your wife would have to serve a probationary immigration period of 2 years. At the end of this time she could apply for indefinite leave to remain (ILR) which, as its name suggets, would allow her to stay in the UK indefinitely. However, having obtained her ILR, if she were to spend more than 2 years outside the UK, then it would lapse.

Should your wife-to-be obtain ILR, she would not require a visa to enter the UK. However, technically, those entering the UK on the basis of their ILR should be doing so in order to resume their residence; i.e. despite holding valid ILR, in theory, your wife would need a visit visa to enter the UK if coming only for a holiday. If an individual possessing ILR were to present themselves to an immigration officer as being a visitor without a visit visa, the IO could refuse leave to enter, although such a scenario is unlikely.

Your child, should you be married at the time of his/her birth, will automatically be Britsh as well as Thai. He/she could legitimately hold both British and Thai passports, thus obviating the need for a visa for either country.

Cheers,

Scouse.

Posted
BTW, anyone know up to what age a baby can generally fly for free to Thailand and whether some airlines are better than others in this respect? Or does this "kid travels for free" fare only apply to London buses these days?

Cheers

Probably more of a question for the Travel sub-forum but I'll answer anyway... Up to the age of 2, an infant can get a ticket for 10% of the price of an adult ticket but it doesn't entitle them to a seat (they get a bassinet if they're small enough). From 2 to 11 (I think), they pay something like 75% of the adult price.

Note that the adult ticket price that is used for this calculation is not necessarily the cheapest ticket available - I had a big 'discussion' with Thai Airways about this in their Silom Road office. They insist on using the lowest priced published fare which is generally a changeable ticket. I think I whinged about that on the Travel forum at the time so search for my post there. I don't know of any airlines that will let a child fly free on long-haul. You may be lucky on some short-haul/domestic flights but depending on the country, you may still get stung for the tax...

So, to answer your question: take advantage of the London buses while the kid's still young. I don't think there is a Routemaster that comes as far as Bangkok though... :o:D

Posted

I think the No. 38 goes quite a way, but I've never stayed on it to the terminal so I'm 100% sure.

Guys - you're stars. Thanks for all the info (again).

Best

Posted

May I just expand a little? (I'm going to anyway! :o )

Cost of the fiance visa route.

Visa..................................................£260

FLR (after wedding)..........................£335

ILR (2 years after FLR).....................£335

Total................................................£930

Cost of spouse visa route.

Visa.................................................£260

ILR (2 years after 1st. UK entry)......£335

Total................................................£595

So, unless you have strong reasons for marrying in the UK, it makes sense to marry in Thailand and take the spouse visa route.

(NB The terms "fiance" and "spouse" visa are both unofficial terms for different types of settlement visa. The cost given for FLR and ILR are for postal applications, if applying in person add a further £165 per application.)

Whether one holds a fiance visa, spouse visa, FLR or ILR, one can, theoretically, leave and enter the UK as often as one wishes. However, they are all issued on the assumption that one desires permanent residence in the UK. So, whilst there is no specified residential requirement, if one spends more time out of the UK than in it before ILR is issued then it is possible that the ILR application would be refused. Once ILR is received then , as Scouse says above, if one spends more than 2 years outside the UK at one time then the ILR will be revoked.

So, what is the solution in Watson's situation?

Apply, when qualified, for British nationality!

The spouse of a British national can do so once they have been resident in the UK for 3 years. There are specific residence requirements. From BN7 - Naturalisation as a British Citizen para 7

7. The residential requirements are that:

a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note 3) at the beginning of the three-year period that ended on the date the application is received;

b. on the date the application is received, the applicant's stay in the United Kingdom is not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5);

c. in the three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 270 days (see Note 4);

d. in the last 12 months of that three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days; and

e. he or she was not, at any time in that three-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.

Once one has British citizenship, and a British passport, then one can come and go for as often and as long as one wants; the same as any other British citizen. (Some people may tell you that Thais cannot have dual nationality. This use to be the case, but the law was changed some time in the '90s and Thais now can have dual nationality.)

Once one has British nationality it makes travel to Europe, and elsewhere, a lot simpler. What my wife does is use her Thai passport to enter and leave Thailand and any country where Thais don't need visas but Brits do, and her British passport for everywhere else.

Posted

OK - thanks for clarifying this guys.

So to recap my current situation:

1. My UK solicitors have finally applied for Decree Absolute for UK marriage to ex-wife but will not give me any indication as to when I can expect to get it. Guess: six weeks.

2. If necessary am happy to fly out to Thailand and marry g/f out there, once I've got Decree Absolute.

3. However, because she is pregnant, she cannot wait for my Decree Absolute to come through before applying for a settlement visa to UK, because if she were to do so, it may mean the application process will take too long and take her over the 28 weeks pregnant maximum length of time after which she is unable to fly.

4. On 'phone advise from the UK embassy in BKK, g/f is applying this week for a visa on a fiance basis. UK embassy advised that I should apply now, as the application process will take some time, and once I get Decree Absolute I should fax it to the UK embassy but better to get process rolling now...

However, given GU22's post and our situation as outlined above, it would appear that this week, instead of applying as "the fiance of someone settled in the UK", she should apply as "the spouse of someone settled in the UK". This would save cost and time, right?

Presumably all I need do is alter my invitation letter to reflect this - which it is not too late to do.

The only problem is: she is not actually my spouse - yet!

I guess the UK embassy in BKK may process the spouse-type application in the same way they have promised to process the fiance-type application (ie. "send it in and fax us the Decree Absolute as soon as you get the Decree"), but I assume they'll also need my marriage certificate (to Thai g/f as well) which would add more time to the process (how long, who knows?).

The other thing is – it’s not our current plan to settle in the UK, as we expect to be living in Thailand full-time in 2-4 years. However, I guess it makes sense to apply for British nationality when we can, although I assume she could still visit the UK on a Visitors visa if we’re only staying for a few months to see relatives etc. I can’t see us living in the UK after the initial 2-4 years, though it would be useful if we wanted to go to Europe etc - but I guess that's not what a ILR is for....! :o:D

Any thoughts?

FYI, the UK embassy guy last week said they were currently processing applications for interviews in late Jan/early Feb, so applying now should be OK to get an interview well before April (after April it will be too late for g/f to fly if she is pregnant).

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