Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[SiangDeeMahk]

.

"What if income is not pension income but investment income? To be treated the same way?"

Yes! -- Basing income on a "pension" is clearly a simple-minded ancient outdated concept -- What about dividend income from investments paid quarterly or yearly to a foreign account? -- how about annuity income or distribution from an IRA? -- A retiree drawing on savings?

Some immigration agent with a 6th grade education and an IQ of 70 is supposed to understand and judge a retiree based on all of those possible variables?

Hopefully, this ridiculous edict will go the way of the photo-copy of both sides of a credit card that was required a couple of years ago and lasted only a few weeks until someone woke up and realized how ridiculous it was.

.

Here's the problem with the "waking up from rediculousness" in Thailand. The problem will only ever be addressed/corrected, if the discoverer is SO high up the totem pole, that there's virtually no one above them who's face will be lost by a turn-around of policy. You can imagine the precious few times the stars will align properly for such an event to occour.

This, in essence, is the single most ginormous failure of a "face-based" (historically fuedal) system; there's virtually no way to make improvments, or correct errors.

[chooka]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

I agree double standards. But maybe it would be harder to charge double prices from a farang if he/she was only living off double the income. 65,000 bht pension per month is a lot. Pensioners in Australia would be lucky to get 25,000 don't know where they come up with the 65,000.

[rich54321]

It is a good thing!!!! It now makes all of us the same - having to show income / pension. NO more just saying you have it in the bank etc etc.

The amount has always baffled me why is it so high? The average Thai wage is so low in comparison - however there is a bundle of interest the Thai banks are making from thousands of foreigners putting money into Thai banks albeit for short times

[moe666]

If the Thai government don't want foreigners staying in Thailand, than why they just don't kick them out of the country? They need all there little rules and requirements to make life impossible. Its not a matter if foreigners are going to be kicked out of the country but its a matter of when?

The government like to create chaos in the visa application process so nobody understand the process or is notified. This chaos creates a possibility for the immigration police to abuse there power and ask for the extra "fee" when something is not according the absurd rules and requirements and to straighten it all up again. I guess the circle is closed again!

you know all of this as fact or the ramblings of dilusions

[moe666]

It is a good thing!!!! It now makes all of us the same - having to show income / pension. NO more just saying you have it in the bank etc etc.

The amount has always baffled me why is it so high? The average Thai wage is so low in comparison - however there is a bundle of interest the Thai banks are making from thousands of foreigners putting money into Thai banks albeit for short times

most falangs have a higher cost of living than joe blow somchai

[Card]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Private pension?

Ocupational pension?

Pension annuity?

Aren't those "pensions" just like the State Pension that you seem to be refering to?

Those are just 3 that spring to mind that qualify as pensions in the true sense

Penkoprod

What they are looking for is total income per month - it doesn't matter if it is a pension or not (most 50 somethings don't have a pension, anyway). But it must be a regular income every month - it could come from drug dealing or necrophilic prostitution as long as it is over a 65,000 baht per month - they don't care where it comes from as long as it's regular and shown on your bank statements. They don't understand bank statements anyway - they only look at the sums not the origins.

I don't know why retired people don't just transfer 800000 baht like I do - it's relatively simple. Surely they can come up with that amount - if they don't spend all of it then it can carry on the following year - just keep topping it up each year - simple.

[TechnikaIII]

the 800.000 baht is as old as i can remember, nothing new, right?

So which comes first .. the chicken or the egg? In order to open my own bank account, I am supposed to have a residency or whatever sort of permit.

But to qualify for the permit, I am supposed to show that I've had 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, for however long. Who's Thai bank?

[softgeorge]

Did the previous government keep having crackdowns on farangs and were they constantly putting the sqeeze on them in an effort to keep farangs and tourists out of the country? This is the 5th crackdown or another turn of the screw in 2 weeks. I am to young to retire at the moment but was just wondering.

[moe666]

Boy I am in a pickle... I just came home to the U.S. for my mom's birthday party. Am planning to stay for 3 months and do some repairs on my home here and cars and such. My retirement visa expires on the 14/th of Sept. and I am due back on Aug. 25th. I do not even have a bank account in Thailand. Personally, I think banking in Thailand is a rip off. So if I have to prove 65,000 baht in a bank for 2 months I am out of luck? Proving an income of 65,000 baht a month is easy. One pension is $1448 dollars and one is $1000 dollars in dividends. I am wondering if they will take a bank statement from the U.S. showing a total deposit of $2448 per month. If so i will bring a bank statement with me showing the deposits. If not I guess there will be a woman in Thailand verrrry unhappy. When her money dries up and I am kicked out of the country. I for one will never transfer 800,000 baht into a Thai bank. Or any amount into a Thai bank for that matter.

Screw Thailand. It is a good place for retirement but the asian countries are coming of age. It is a matter of time before all retires will be held pretty close to the fire. The glory day's are over for good guys..

I hope all you guys kept a home in your country and at least one vehicle. I did and I have said many times. When Thailand really starts coming of age. There will be many farang booted out of Thailand. It will come in small steps. Until all farang there are either wealthy or GONE. The middle class farang will not have a place in Asia. As the economy keeps growing and the developed nations keep contracting. It is just a matter of time.

As usual whisper something in one guys ear and by the time it gets to the end of the line has no resemblence to what was said. I think many of you are making a mountain out of a molehill. As we know sometimes what is printed in English bares no resemblance to what is actually said. Why don't we wait a while before loseing it and see how all of this shakes out and clarification comes our way. Probably only for those of us who only make a statement of income without documentation. Personally donot have a problem I have the income and can prove it I am sure there are many americans out there who cannot so long boys.

When will they crack down on the education visas, that will probably be next since they base all of their decisions on what they read at Thaivisa lol.

[moe666]

Did the previous government keep having crackdowns on farangs and were they constantly putting the sqeeze on them in an effort to keep farangs and tourists out of the country? This is the 5th crackdown or another turn of the screw in 2 weeks. I am to young to retire at the moment but was just wondering.

And what crack downs where these you speak of. donot believe everything you read here

[Card]

the 800.000 baht is as old as i can remember, nothing new, right?

So which comes first .. the chicken or the egg? In order to open my own bank account, I am supposed to have a residency or whatever sort of permit.

But to qualify for the permit, I am supposed to show that I've had 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, for however long. Who's Thai bank?

You can open a bank account without a residency permit - I've got several accounts in Thai banks and am on a retirement pension. This includes Citibank, BKK bank, TMB. What you can't have is a credit card unless u have a work permit. A retirement income/pension won't get u a credit card.

[fullcave]

no problem about the 800K as the immigration officer in Hua Hin said we could wave that requirement for 25,000 which I thought was a bit steep. Fortunately I do in fact have over 800K in bank so didn't need her to "help" me.

the 800.000 baht is as old as i can remember, nothing new, right?

The "new" is that those who do not qualify with the 800.000 baht in the bank, now have to show proof that they actually get a pension of at least 65.000 per month. Understand that a letter from the embassy stating the monthly pension was what was needed previously.

[Colabamumbai]

The Canadian Embassy needs proof of at least one months income deposit, to issue an affidavit for immigration.<br>

[TechnikaIII]

the 800.000 baht is as old as i can remember, nothing new, right?

So which comes first .. the chicken or the egg? In order to open my own bank account, I am supposed to have a residency or whatever sort of permit.

But to qualify for the permit, I am supposed to show that I've had 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, for however long. Who's Thai bank?

You can open a bank account without a residency permit - I've got several accounts in Thai banks and am on a retirement pension. This includes Citibank, BKK bank, TMB. What you can't have is a credit card unless u have a work permit. A retirement income/pension won't get u a credit card.

OK - thanks ... but a debit card? (I have not used credit cards for years - not the best to have with fluctuating, unstable incomes ;-) I did ask a BKK bank in Pattaya about having an account, but he still required something more than the visitor's visa I had. Maybe he assumed that I expected to have a credit card. Perhaps I should shop around, and specify that it's for savings with debit facility only..

[jmac]

I just do not understand how the average Thai immigration will be able to interpret various countries bank statements to decide who qualifies. I just do not see how this would work unless the money was transferred to a Thai bank. That would eliminate people using the atm method. Some people seem to assume all documentation is in English or never abbreviated or coded. I have a feeling this will prove to be an impossible task.

[TechnikaIII]

Boy I am in a pickle... I just came home to the U.S. for my mom's birthday party. Am planning to stay for 3 months and do some repairs on my home here and cars and such. My retirement visa expires on the 14/th of Sept. and I am due back on Aug. 25th. I do not even have a bank account in Thailand. Personally, I think banking in Thailand is a rip off. So if I have to prove 65,000 baht in a bank for 2 months I am out of luck? Proving an income of 65,000 baht a month is easy. One pension is $1448 dollars and one is $1000 dollars in dividends. I am wondering if they will take a bank statement from the U.S. showing a total deposit of $2448 per month. If so i will bring a bank statement with me showing the deposits. If not I guess there will be a woman in Thailand verrrry unhappy. When her money dries up and I am kicked out of the country. I for one will never transfer 800,000 baht into a Thai bank. Or any amount into a Thai bank for that matter.

Screw Thailand. It is a good place for retirement but the asian countries are coming of age. It is a matter of time before all retires will be held pretty close to the fire. The glory day's are over for good guys..

I hope all you guys kept a home in your country and at least one vehicle. I did and I have said many times. When Thailand really starts coming of age. There will be many farang booted out of Thailand. It will come in small steps. Until all farang there are either wealthy or GONE. The middle class farang will not have a place in Asia. As the economy keeps growing and the developed nations keep contracting. It is just a matter of time.

As usual whisper something in one guys ear and by the time it gets to the end of the line has no resemblence to what was said. I think many of you are making a mountain out of a molehill. As we know sometimes what is printed in English bares no resemblance to what is actually said. Why don't we wait a while before loseing it and see how all of this shakes out and clarification comes our way. Probably only for those of us who only make a statement of income without documentation. Personally donot have a problem I have the income and can prove it I am sure there are many americans out there who cannot so long boys.

When will they crack down on the education visas, that will probably be next since they base all of their decisions on what they read at Thaivisa lol.

" that will probably be next since they base all of their decisions on what they read at Thaivisa lol."

Hmm then I probably should not remind them about this sign on the station at the Malay border. Although, when seeing some of the ugly shitbags lining up for visas at the Thai Consulate in Penang, I would welcome an enforcement of the dress code, just a little? ... to exclude the shamelessly disrespectful, whether their pockets are stuffed with money or not. In fact fine them for stepping on Thai consulate soil, before they even get their hands on the application forms.

Edited June 6, 2011 by TechnikaIII

[softgeorge]

I just do not understand how the average Thai immigration will be able to interpret various countries bank statements to decide who qualifies. I just do not see how this would work unless the money was transferred to a Thai bank. That would eliminate people using the atm method. Some people seem to assume all documentation is in English or never abbreviated or coded. I have a feeling this will prove to be an impossible task.

When it comes to money all thais can decipher the most cryptic codes. Don't worry they will interpret it.

[nongkhai]

The original post on this thread is incorrect for Canada.

The Canadian Embassy requires proof of income before giving you the letter for Thai Immigration. This has always been the case for at least the four years I've been getting this letter annually.

[Naam]

If the Thai government don't want foreigners staying in Thailand, than why they just don't kick them out of the country? They need all there little rules and requirements to make life impossible. Its not a matter if foreigners are going to be kicked out of the country but its a matter of when?

The government like to create chaos in the visa application process so nobody understand the process or is notified. This chaos creates a possibility for the immigration police to abuse there power and ask for the extra "fee" when something is not according the absurd rules and requirements and to straighten it all up again. I guess the circle is closed again!

the "little rules and requirements" are the laws of this country and they only make life for those impossible who can't follow the rules. moreover, there is no chaos, the rules are quite clear. 800k in the bank or 65k monthly income (not necessarily pension). that some proof is required besides the "embassy letter" must be based on the assumption that a number of retirees are cheating by stating income they don't have. the Thai system is still very fair because (as opposed to other countries, especially the home countries of most retirees) no tax is levied on the income from abroad.

[garyk]

Ok, someone tell me how you do this. I am an american and only show the letter each year stating an income of 2448 dollars a month.

I do not have a bank account in Thailand as i us a debit card. At the local bank for all my cash needs.

I have one check from SS for $1448 a month and one from divedends for $1000 a month. How the _uck do i show proof of income if I cannot show a bank statment from America?

If someone is doing the stated income of at least 65000 baht a month. Then please tell me how you do it.

I really do not want to pout 800000 baht in the bank here. One of my dividend accounts for 30,000 makes me over 2000 a year in dividends. It would be stupid for me to put money in Thailand.

Thanks

Edited June 6, 2011 by garyk

[rfukata]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

I agree with you on that - I do the same thing as bank transfers can get costly.

[moe666]

Ok, someone tell me how you do this. I am an american and only show the letter each year stating an income of 2448 dollars a month.

I do not have a bank account in Thailand as i us a debit card. At the local bank for all my cash needs.

I have one check from SS for $1448 a month and one from divedends for $1000 a month. How the _uck do i show proof of income if I cannot show a bank statment from America?

If someone is doing the stated income of at least 65000 baht a month. Then please tell me how you do it.

I really do not want to pout 800000 baht in the bank here. One of my dividend accounts for 30,000 makes me over 2000 a year in dividends. It would be stupid for me to put money in Thailand.

Thanks

I would think your money is auto deposited into a bank account monthly, it should show as a deposit. If not then your yearly statement of income should be fine when divided by 12.

[hhgz]

"Breaking News . . . Thai Immigration cracking down on people trying to cheat the system. "

You hit the nail on the head, redsquare. One poster commented that Immigration has now "changed the game", and "moved the goalposts". That's an incorrect perspective. It's going to be interesting to see how many people are forced to leave because they can't properly document a pension. My guess, about zero.

[personchester]

Unless your lieing to your embassy its a non issue ??

All thats happening here is they want to see that what you claim is reality.. If no ones telling porkies then I see no issue.

Apparently, once again, people from Immigrations have been reading ThaiVisa message boards to find out which loopholes are being exploited. Many times when someone has posed a question on this board about proof of income or meeting the minimums, someone has responded that if you're an American (or someone else whose embassy uses sworn statements) that you can just say anything you want.

Same was true back when people were shifting bank balances around and Immigrations then decided to require money to be in your account for several months. The geniuses posting on TV would brag about how clever they were and that loophole was closed.

Anyway, as someone else said, the financial requirements remain the same, but because of a few dishonest people we will all have to provide more documentation that we meet those requirements.

I don't see the relevance of the comparison of a supposed average Thai salary of Baht 8000 to the Baht 65,000 requirement for retired farang. It may hurt your feelings to face the fact that Thailand is not providing a refugee camp for impoverished farang. We're welcomed here if we are going to spend money to boost the economy. Very sensible. Not sure what other countries are laying out a big welcome for foreign welfare cases.

The UK is No.1. in this respect, immigrants, after arriving get ... free housing, free healthcare, and a fortnightly social security payment, and officials are under instructions not do bother them in order to prevent the accusation of being a racist.

[F4UCorsair]

It's never been any different suradit, in so many different facets of life, a minority screwing for the majority.

Unless your lieing to your embassy its a non issue ??

All thats happening here is they want to see that what you claim is reality.. If no ones telling porkies then I see no issue.

Apparently, once again, people from Immigrations have been reading ThaiVisa message boards to find out which loopholes are being exploited. Many times when someone has posed a question on this board about proof of income or meeting the minimums, someone has responded that if you're an American (or someone else whose embassy uses sworn statements) that you can just say anything you want.

Same was true back when people were shifting bank balances around and Immigrations then decided to require money to be in your account for several months. The geniuses posting on TV would brag about how clever they were and that loophole was closed.

Anyway, as someone else said, the financial requirements remain the same, but because of a few dishonest people we will all have to provide more documentation that we meet those requirements.

I don't see the relevance of the comparison of a supposed average Thai salary of Baht 8000 to the Baht 65,000 requirement for retired farang. It may hurt your feelings to face the fact that Thailand is not providing a refugee camp for impoverished farang. We're welcomed here if we are going to spend money to boost the economy. Very sensible. Not sure what other countries are laying out a big welcome for foreign welfare cases.

[jackdawson]

man that just the embassy letter thing was the bomb

man for a county that loves paper was it way too good / easy to last

[kdc1899]

Breaking News . . . Thai Immigration cracking down on people trying to cheat the system.

What awful people they are. Let's hear from the apologists who feel that farang retirees should be allowed to claim whatever monthly pension they like with no checks at all by Immigration.

We can still claim what we want. Our embassies didn't require proof because they know we can give 5K baht and get anything done.

Nothing has really changed.

[peebee]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

I agree double standards. But maybe it would be harder to charge double prices from a farang if he/she was only living off double the income. 65,000 bht pension per month is a lot. Pensioners in Australia would be lucky to get 25,000 don't know where they come up with the 65,000.

It disappointing when people have access to the internet but don't take a few minutes to get correct information. The Aussie pension for a single person would be equivalent to around 43,000 bht/mth (not 25,000) and around 66,000 bht/mth for a couple. On top of this there are many additional supplements and concessions (eg. rent, electricity, telephone, travel, children, etc) and of course free health services. And not forgetting that many businesses give discounts for 'seniors'. I imagine this is similar to other 'farang/western' countries. You won't live the high life on a pension but you can live comfortably enough if you manage your money carefully.

Our 'western' countries have had the benefit of many of us working and paying taxes for 30 or 40 years or more and so there is an obligation to support us in retirement. And 'western' countries are relatively wealthy and can afford to do so. Thailand on the other hand has not had us working for it for 40 years and is not a wealthy country. Seems very reasonable to me therefore that Thailand simply wants to ensure foreigners can support themselves (and any local dependents). The basic 800,000 bht balance for 3 months/year does not seem unreasonable and has not increased over the years despite inflation increasing living costs in Thailand. Certainly the strengthening of the Thai baht exchange rate has made this more difficult for some farang but this is not a decision of the immigration dept.

[FOODLOVER]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

If you have a Thai family you will understand very quickly.

[ignis]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

That is only if your not married to a Thai, if married and support umpteen kids then you need 40,000 baht a month to live here or get a yearly '0' married at KL with 100,000 baht in a Thai Bank..

Myself not married, but house, car, truck paid for, spend between 15 - 20,000 baht month. !!!

Maybe now only 3 monthly pension slip will be needed for an extension ? most over 65's I know only transfer money 2 or 3x a year.