Retirement Extension Changes

[Dante99]

Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions

Full story:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473193-thai-immigration-tightens-requirements-for-retirement-visa-extensions/

The above link states that Immigration is now requiring proof of "two months pension income" for a Retirement extension of stay. That seems to be in addition to a letter from the Consul or Embassy about income. Please post recent experience with Retirement extension of stay applications with CM Immigration to let us know if they are doing this. If they are requiring "proof of two months pension income, what does that mean? Is it bank transfers into a Thailand Bank, deposits into any bank including non-Thai banks or can it be a bunch of Thai ATM withdrawal receipts or credit card receipts or what?

Thank you.

[hml367]

If anyone wants to call to get information, this is from the Royal Thai Police Immigration Division web site:

With c ooperation between Immigration Bureau and Government Contact Center, now you can call 1111 for immigration inquiry for 24 hours. 3 baht per call for fixed line phone.

I didn't call and I don't expect to, so I don't know if it actually works.

MSPAIN

Edited June 7, 2011 by hml367

[NancyL]

Thank you Dante, for asking for specific experience at the CM Immigration office. The "rules" vary from office-to-office and it would be good to know what people are experiencing here in CM. Also, it would be good to know their nationality. The link included in your OP is full of a lot of supposition, conjecture, and even fear-mongering. It was lacking in specific descriptions of actual, recent experiences.

Hubby uses an income verification letter from the American Consulate for extension of his retirement visa, so we're following this issue closely. He did his last extension in CM in November, presenting the income letter without any further questions. He came neatly dressed, with a calm demeanor and had all his paperwork in order, including the date and signature they require on each page. It was a simple matter for the immigration officer to look over everything and get him on his way. i.e. he didn't create any waves and made the guy's job as easy as possible. Very few words were exchanged, except for polite sawadee krap and khoop khun krap and smiles, of course. He came alone. This was his second 12-month extension.

This isn't recent experience, so hopefully someone who has done a retirement visa extension recently in CM can recount their experience, with specific details not just about immigration, but about themselves.

[hellodolly]

For myself I have income3 from three different sources. I have letters for each one. It always surprised me when the US Consulate did not ask for proof of income just accepted what ever I told them even though I had proof in hand. I do know personally people who do not have the income but just claim to.have the income.

I do believe that these are the people they are aiming at. I am not familiar with the whole system and am concerned for these people as they do not have the required minimum they do have enough to live here comfortably. I hope there is a alternative for them.

Time will tell.

[fcgprg]

No change for UK citizens as far as i can see .We have to provide proof of our income at the consulate to get the letter from them already.

[Raindancer]

For myself I have income3 from three different sources. I have letters for each one. It always surprised me when the US Consulate did not ask for proof of income just accepted what ever I told them even though I had proof in hand. I do know personally people who do not have the income but just claim to.have the income.

I do believe that these are the people they are aiming at. I am not familiar with the whole system and am concerned for these people as they do not have the required minimum they do have enough to live here comfortably. I hope there is a alternative for them.

Time will tell.

It is simply amazing that different embassies ask for different proof of income. As a UK citizen I have to provide a government document of proof of earnings from our UK income tax office. Why is it that different countries allow citizens of particular nations to ask for self certification of income, without the requisite proof from their own government by way of an official document from the inland revenue or IRS as opposed to those of us who have to comply with different regulations..

It is not a case of just historical income, but more so that the evidence that this income is ongoing and can support the Farang for the coming year. My point is ...if you live in a country that requires certain evidence of income, then this should apply to all farangs on the same basis.

However, to throw a spanner in the works of so called evidence of proof of earnings........when I asked the British consulate if they ever verified with any UK agency the documents that I had produced, they simply answered NO.... They just stamped the letter of income at a fee of around 2600 Baht.

So I do not see the point of spending this sort of money to ask for a document that is invalid by the process and verification that is not substantiated by the relevant authorities in our relevant homelands that is totally worthless as a legal document for immigration in order to obtain a visa.

Seems that this sort of service is just a money making exercise that all agencies accept as the norm to extract money from those of us who wish to live here. And we have no place to argue our case or ask for an explanation as to why>.

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Raindancer

[uptheos]

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

[Raindancer]

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

Uptheos

I do not look down on others who cannot or will not comply with the regulations. All I ask for is the same playing field that others adhere to in accordance with the Thai regulations of living here..

It seems that you promote the Ideology of I "see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary". I will not fall out with you, but I disagree with those who abuse and circumvent the rules to suit their personal circumstances , in order to avoid the rules of the country, to remain where they reside.

I agree with you ...the bar has been set far too high for those who wish to live here under the specific types of visa. But I cannot change that and so I tend to abide by the rules that are set out for me and my type of visa that I use legally to reside here.

But if thousand of ex pats abide by the rules as the majority may do, why should the rest be exempt from the same regulations?

Regards

Edited June 7, 2011 by Raindancer

[mamborobert]

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

Presumably then you have no problem with the migration of Mexican citizens to the USA, or Sub Saharan nationals to the EU through Italy, or Chinese triads and snakeheads smuggling people anywhere...."using whatever means neccesary" to live happy and fruitfully in farangland.

If the bar is too high that is a Thai choice, its the law....try getting a retiree/investor visa to Australia (or many other western countries) the rules and finance requirements are much higher or are you advocating that laws in western countries are ok to break as well?

Edited June 7, 2011 by mamborobert

[mallmagician]

I have a friend that is wealthy, under 50, and not married and doesn't intend to marry. He doesn't wish to work, as he's wealthy enough to retire early. He wants to live in Thailand and spend his money here - what do u suggest? without breaking the spirit of any rule that is.....

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

Uptheos

I do not look down on others who cannot or will not comply with the regulations. All I ask for is the same playing field that others adhere to in accordance with the Thai regulations of living here..

It seems that you promote the Ideology of I "see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary". I will not fall out with you, but I disagree with those who abuse and circumvent the rules to suit their personal circumstances , in order to avoid the rules of the country, to remain where they reside.

I agree with you ...the bar has been set far too high for those who wish to live here under the specific types of visa. But I cannot change that and so I tend to abide by the rules that are set out for me and my type of visa that I use legally to reside here.

But if thousand of ex pats abide by the rules as the majority may do, why should the rest be exempt from the same regulations?

Regards

[Raindancer]

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

Presumably then you have no problem with the migration of Mexican citizens to the USA, or Sub Saharan nationals to the EU through Italy, or Chinese triads and snakeheads smuggling people anywhere...."using whatever means neccesary" to live happy and fruitfully in farangland.

If the bar is too high that is a Thai choice, its the law....try getting a retiree/investor visa to Australia (or many other western countries) the rules and finance requirements are much higher or are you advocating that laws in western countries are ok to break as well?

No I do not agree with the political concessions offered by western governments to accept so called refugees, at a cost to all countries involved on social, economic and cultural fronts.

If you read my post...it is obvious where I stand. And No I do not advocate other countries/immigrants bending the rules to enter western society, unfortunately western governments are far too relaxed on these points. If you wish to debate the immigrants to the western world, then please start another thread.

My post was simple and to the point about about retiring/staying in Thailand. The rules for the western world are more compassionate based upon human rights. This country has different rules and so I comply with the legal requirements pertaining to Thailand. I never mentioned the rules of immigrants to the western society.

Regards

Edited June 7, 2011 by Raindancer

[Raindancer]

I have a friend that is wealthy, under 50, and not married and doesn't intend to marry. He doesn't wish to work, as he's wealthy enough to retire early. He wants to live in Thailand and spend his money here - what do u suggest? without breaking the spirit of any rule that is.....

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

Uptheos

I do not look down on others who cannot or will not comply with the regulations. All I ask for is the same playing field that others adhere to in accordance with the Thai regulations of living here..

It seems that you promote the Ideology of I "see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary". I will not fall out with you, but I disagree with those who abuse and circumvent the rules to suit their personal circumstances , in order to avoid the rules of the country, to remain where they reside.

I agree with you ...the bar has been set far too high for those who wish to live here under the specific types of visa. But I cannot change that and so I tend to abide by the rules that are set out for me and my type of visa that I use legally to reside here.

But if thousand of ex pats abide by the rules as the majority may do, why should the rest be exempt from the same regulations?

Regards

I have a friend that is wealthy, under 50, and not married and doesn't intend to marry. He doesn't wish to work, as he's wealthy enough to retire early. He wants to live in Thailand and spend his money here - what do u suggest? without breaking the spirit of any rule that is.....

If he is under 50, he could apply for an education visa or start his own business and apply for a work permit. Then as he approaches fifty years of age , he could apply for a retirement visa and give up his business or education visa.. It is a difficult situation for a person under 50 years of age, until he reaches 50 . So these are my thoughts based upon your question.

Hope that helps.

Regards

[cloudhopper]

I have a friend that is wealthy, under 50, and not married and doesn't intend to marry. He doesn't wish to work, as he's wealthy enough to retire early. He wants to live in Thailand and spend his money here - what do u suggest? without breaking the spirit of any rule that is.....

Sail on his yacht to Langkawi or Penang every 90 days. Or helicopter to Vientiane. Actually it's quite easy for wealthy people like your friend.

[Raindancer]

I have a friend that is wealthy, under 50, and not married and doesn't intend to marry. He doesn't wish to work, as he's wealthy enough to retire early. He wants to live in Thailand and spend his money here - what do u suggest? without breaking the spirit of any rule that is.....

Sail on his yacht to Langkawi or Penang every 90 days. Or helicopter to Vientiane. Actually it's quite easy for wealthy people like your friend.

So you agree with circumventing the rules for those who will not apply by the letter of the law. If you are a tourist, then at least observe and apply the rules of Thai immigration policy for genuine ex pat residents of this great land.......

The sooner that those who abuse and circumvent the regulations are removed by abusing their so called tourist visas, from this beautiful country, the more credence we, as genuine ex pats will receive. But it appears to be a fact that that there are those who have no regard to genuine ex pats who abide by the law of this country.

It is all a matter of personal values and upbringing and respect for other people and the land in which we are guests.

[sfokevin]

Back to the original reason for this thread!!!

Has anyone been to CM Immigration in the last 30 days and had to provide income proof for any sworn income statement they have from their embassy/consul?...

Edited June 7, 2011 by sfokevin

[cloudhopper]

So you agree with circumventing the rules for those who will not apply by the letter of the law. If you are a tourist, then at least observe and apply the rules of Thai immigration policy for genuine ex pat residents of this great land.......

Yeah I think it's OK. Actually I am a genuine ex pat resident of this great land, but it's pure luck that I find myself in that enviable position and I don't begrudge others doing what they have to do. I also do volunteer work without a permit, stay in the fast lane and routinely violate any other rules I perceive as bullshit. Just like back home and pretty much the way our gracious hosts do it too.

[uptheos]

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

Presumably then you have no problem with the migration of Mexican citizens to the USA, or Sub Saharan nationals to the EU through Italy, or Chinese triads and snakeheads smuggling people anywhere...."using whatever means neccesary" to live happy and fruitfully in farangland.

I'm sorry but I don't see the connection. I have no problem with someone here on $1,000 a month up, health insurance and enough for a ticket home if necessary.

I also know many expats who don't like to see immigration laws flouted, but cry in their beer if 'the law' denies them alcohol on certain holidays.

Edited June 7, 2011 by uptheos

[Dante99]

Back to the original reason for this thread!!!

Has anyone been to CM Immigration in the last 30 days and had to provide income proof for any sworn income statement they have from their embassy/consul?...

Thank you for that. Most of the above could be deleted as totally off topic, please moderators.

[letitbe]

No change for UK citizens as far as i can see .We have to provide proof of our income at the consulate to get the letter from them already.

I know many many americans who do not have a pot to piss in and boast how they just go down to USA consulate or embassy and say the have income and get letter. They are usually the low lifes here who do anything to cheat their fellow forangs. About time these rif raf where told to leave.

[CMX]

I renewed my Retirement Non-Im. A-O Annual than 2 weeks ago, including my visit to the U.S. Consulate for 'the letter."

A bit out of the direction of the conversation, I thought, the Thai Immigration officer mentioned that I would need a different (new) letter next year, which seemed obvious to me, as the notarization costs $50 U.S. It may be that something is in the works, I thought. Otherwise, there were no further questions. Indeed, I was told by the woman that I had everything, something I hear less frequently these days for some reason.

It should be noted that in order to get the first Visa, I had to demonstrate with notarized communications from my financial institutions proof of regular retirement income for the Royal Embassy there in the U.S. Without putting much thought into it, I have supposed that these would be risky to falsify in the U.S. (All this, of course, as an alternative to keeping a balance in a Thai bank of the 800,000 baht.) So at one time, I must have had (or falsified) a fair proof of income in order to establish eligibility. Similarly, I was required to submit a notarized (and embossed, as it turned out) police report showing no criminal record. Of course, it is possible that Thai authorities in the U.S. have easier ways of verifying such claims, or alternatively, that U.S. Banks are very constrained in what they may report.

In any case, it is sad to think of folks able to comply at one time having fallen into being rif-raf without a pot into which to piss. In fact, it is disconcerting to learn that those with less than the required income, what with the strength of the Baht as compared to the bobbing buck, are by definition rif-raf. But then, I'm not sure I'd know one if I were to meet it. Dress, doubtless, and that missing pot.

Edited June 7, 2011 by CMX

[fcgprg]

For myself I have income3 from three different sources. I have letters for each one. It always surprised me when the US Consulate did not ask for proof of income just accepted what ever I told them even though I had proof in hand. I do know personally people who do not have the income but just claim to.have the income.

I do believe that these are the people they are aiming at. I am not familiar with the whole system and am concerned for these people as they do not have the required minimum they do have enough to live here comfortably. I hope there is a alternative for them.

Time will tell.

It is simply amazing that different embassies ask for different proof of income. As a UK citizen I have to provide a government document of proof of earnings from our UK income tax office. Why is it that different countries allow citizens of particular nations to ask for self certification of income, without the requisite proof from their own government by way of an official document from the inland revenue or IRS as opposed to those of us who have to comply with different regulations..

It is not a case of just historical income, but more so that the evidence that this income is ongoing and can support the Farang for the coming year. My point is ...if you live in a country that requires certain evidence of income, then this should apply to all farangs on the same basis.

However, to throw a spanner in the works of so called evidence of proof of earnings........when I asked the British consulate if they ever verified with any UK agency the documents that I had produced, they simply answered NO.... They just stamped the letter of income at a fee of around 2600 Baht.

So I do not see the point of spending this sort of money to ask for a document that is invalid by the process and verification that is not substantiated by the relevant authorities in our relevant homelands that is totally worthless as a legal document for immigration in order to obtain a visa.

Seems that this sort of service is just a money making exercise that all agencies accept as the norm to extract money from those of us who wish to live here. And we have no place to argue our case or ask for an explanation as to why>.

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

The point is that you have the original copy of your P60 from the UK ,the consulate is giving you a letter stating that .If the Thai Immigration wanted to verify that it was true their would be no problems .It is a bit different to going in to your consulate and saying that you get x amount of pension or income with no back up documents.

[Dante99]

I renewed my Retirement Non-Im. A-O Annual than 2 weeks ago, including my visit to the U.S. Consulate for 'the letter."

A bit out of the direction of the conversation, I thought, the Thai Immigration officer mentioned that I would need a different (new) letter next year, which seemed obvious to me, as the notarization costs $50 U.S. It may be that something is in the works, I thought. Otherwise, there were no further questions. Indeed, I was told by the woman that I had everything, something I hear less frequently these days for some reason.

Thank you CMX for your helpful to the point information.

[CMNightRider]

No change for UK citizens as far as i can see .We have to provide proof of our income at the consulate to get the letter from them already.

I know many many americans who do not have a pot to piss in and boast how they just go down to USA consulate or embassy and say the have income and get letter. They are usually the low lifes here who do anything to cheat their fellow forangs. About time these rif raf where told to leave.

I have seen more people from the UK living hand to mouth in Chiang Mai, than American expats. Most of the Americans I know are living off substantial monthly pensions along with what they receive from their monthly Social Security checks.

[fcgprg]

No change for UK citizens as far as i can see .We have to provide proof of our income at the consulate to get the letter from them already.

I know many many americans who do not have a pot to piss in and boast how they just go down to USA consulate or embassy and say the have income and get letter. They are usually the low lifes here who do anything to cheat their fellow forangs. About time these rif raf where told to leave.

I have seen more people from the UK living hand to mouth in Chiang Mai, than American expats. Most of the Americans I know are living off substantial monthly pensions along with what they receive from their monthly Social Security checks.

So those people will not have a problem ,its the ones who fabricate the amount that they get who are going to have the problem in the future.

[Sojourner]

I renewed my Retirement Non-Im. A-O Annual than 2 weeks ago, including my visit to the U.S. Consulate for 'the letter."

A bit out of the direction of the conversation, I thought, the Thai Immigration officer mentioned that I would need a different (new) letter next year, which seemed obvious to me, as the notarization costs $50 U.S. It may be that something is in the works, I thought. Otherwise, there were no further questions. Indeed, I was told by the woman that I had everything, something I hear less frequently these days for some reason.

His comment about next year's letter could simply be the notarized letter you presented cannot be used a second time. This rule has been in effect for a few years now.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Sojourner

[Beetlejuice]

However, I do wish that the authorities would clamp down on those who do not have sufficient income or savings and use the "Tourist Visa" route and go to the border every 90 days . If you are a tourist then well and good. But I have met so many so called tourist who have lived here for numerous years, thus circumventing the true spirit of living here under official rules.

I hope that the authorities crack down on this type of abuse of the system.

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong. IMO the authorities have set the bar too high and there are many good people that would love a retirement visa, but just can't meet the requirements. They are as useful to the Thai economy as anyone else and I see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary. I don't think I or anyone else should look down on others regarding finances or become judge and jury regarding their means of living a happy and fruitful life wherever they choose.

Uptheos

I do not look down on others who cannot or will not comply with the regulations. All I ask for is the same playing field that others adhere to in accordance with the Thai regulations of living here..

It seems that you promote the Ideology of I "see no reason why they shouldn't reside here using whatever means necessary". I will not fall out with you, but I disagree with those who abuse and circumvent the rules to suit their personal circumstances , in order to avoid the rules of the country, to remain where they reside.

I agree with you ...the bar has been set far too high for those who wish to live here under the specific types of visa. But I cannot change that and so I tend to abide by the rules that are set out for me and my type of visa that I use legally to reside here.

But if thousand of ex pats abide by the rules as the majority may do, why should the rest be exempt from the same regulations?

Regards

I think it makes no difference what the bar has been set to. The fact is that most foreigners prior to deciding to live in Thailand should have knowledge of what these levels are. This should be a main deciding factor of whether or not someone can afford and able to support themselves or families in Thailand.

For example; if I decide that I can afford to buy a Rolls Royce but cannot afford the costs of taxing and insuring it and then to avoid these costs I go via the illegal route and try to run the Rolls without tax and insurance and then get pulled by the police, what excuses can I give? Do you believe the police would be sympathetic if I said, sorry, but I don’t think this is fair because the cost of tax and insurance is way too high?

It`s same for those here that try to bypass the Immigration rules. They cannot whinge just because the police have suddenly decided to enforce the regulations. So who’s fault is it and who can we lay the blame on when things begin to go pear shaped?

For those that have got away with it for so long, good luck to them, no skin off my nose, but now it has become their problem to get themselves out of the situation they have created in the first place.

[CMX]

I renewed my Retirement Non-Im. A-O Annual than 2 weeks ago, including my visit to the U.S. Consulate for 'the letter."

A bit out of the direction of the conversation, I thought, the Thai Immigration officer mentioned that I would need a different (new) letter next year, which seemed obvious to me, as the notarization costs $50 U.S. It may be that something is in the works, I thought. Otherwise, there were no further questions. Indeed, I was told by the woman that I had everything, something I hear less frequently these days for some reason.

His comment about next year's letter could simply be the notarized letter you presented cannot be used a second time. This rule has been in effect for a few years now.

Yes. Sorry if I gave a different interpretation - she just made me wonder. Of course, I knew that I must have a fresh new notarized sworn statement each time, not only for satisfying Thai regulations, but because the U.S. of A. would want the U.S. $50 each year for the consulate to collect. (The U.S. also charges $83 for more passport pages, my favorite charge in Thailand, I believe.)

I still don't seem to see people recognizing that the original Retirement Im. A-O calls for lots of notarized documentation from financial institutions on their letterheads, advanced by people who at the same time must show current notarized police report demonstrating no criminal conviction. Must be that people that are impoverished lost their pensions or falsified their applications in the first place somehow? And thus turned into riffraff.

[uptheos]

For those that have got away with it for so long, good luck to them, no skin off my nose , but now it has become their problem to get themselves out of the situation they have created in the first place.

I have been fortunate enough to have the funds, that have allowed me to live in Thailand for many years.

If I didn't have the funds, I may well have tried another method to stay here.

Therefore, I have no objection to people staying here, as long as they can support themselves.

[NancyL]

Most of the Americans I know are not trying to "game the system". I think we have a legitimate question in asking EXACTLY what is the CHIANG MAI Immigration office requiring NOW for documentation. We've been used to going to our Consulate for an income statement, where our word is trusted because we're making a sworn statement. Now, all the sudden, we're hearing rumors that the Immigration office is asking for more than that.

What EXACTLY have people been asked to produce RECENTLY? Specifically, the office in CHIANG MAI since the rules seem to be different in different offices.

Yes, I know I'm shouting!

My 12-month extension of O-visa based on retirement (popularly known as "retirement visa") is based on the 800,000 baht that's parked in Bangkok Bank, in an account solely in my name. I know all about the EXACT documents needed to prove its existence. Hubby qualifies for a retirement visa because of income. Let's see, what proof do we have of his income? Well, there's our U. S. tax return filing. (All done over the internet) How about the W-2s that back-up the tax return? There's the annual summary we receive from the provider of his private pension. Of course that doesn't have any fancy stamps, ribbons or embossing. Part of his income is from Social Security. Besides the W-2, we receive very little documentation from them.

Why don't people understand that most of us American retirees aren't out to cheat the rules and don't really appreciate comments to that affect. The American Consulate has decided (very wisely) that since most American retirees have various sources of income, they don't have the resources available to double check the veracity of everyone's private pension statement, rental income, investment funds, annuities, etc. Now we hear a rumor that the Thai government feels they have the resources to do that. So, EXACTLY what documentation are they requesting?

[CMX]

NancyL,

As I mentioned in post 20, there were as of late last month NO changes. <see shout

Seems to me that some others are jealous of our option, particularly the sworn statement. It may be that someone's retirement income has fallen below the baht requirement due to the strength of the baht and they'd like an easy way out - lie in a sworn and notarized statement. Well, that might be their way.

But consider that we are dealing with rumors. Consider further that these are rumors in Thailand. Further yet and we come to the undeniable: The rumor has been presented on Thai Visa.

No point in fretting, I think, until the "changes" - whatever - are presented to us. Moreover, the hum of government's mill may shift in sound, this way or that, after July 3, and the Byzantine machinations of rule makers, opaque to us all, go off in some other direction.