Retirement Extension Changes

[vagabond48]

NancyL,

But consider that we are dealing with rumors. Consider further that these are rumors in Thailand. Further yet and we come to the undeniable: The rumor has been presented on Thai Visa.

No point in fretting, I think, until the "changes" - whatever - are presented to us. Moreover, the hum of government's mill may shift in sound, this way or that, after July 3, and the Byzantine machinations of rule makers, opaque to us all, go off in some other direction.

Well put!

[NancyL]

OK, I'll cool down and just smile thru all the abuse heaped on Americans. I'll start paying attention to this topic again when we're a month away from Hubby's visit to Immigration for his 12 month visa extension based on retriement to see which way the winds are blowing.

[Mapguy]

Dear Nancy, RELAX!!

[Ulysses G.]

I have met many people who do not have the required 800,000 or 65,000 per month. However, they most certainly do have more than enough income to live here (it's cheap), plus excellent health care packages to cover them if anything goes wrong.

Agreed. If they are willing to jump through the hoops that they have to in order to live here and can support themselves than -IMHO - Let It Be.

[hellodolly]

OK, I'll cool down and just smile thru all the abuse heaped on Americans. I'll start paying attention to this topic again when we're a month away from Hubby's visit to Immigration for his 12 month visa extension based on retriement to see which way the winds are blowing.

This applies to Americans Canadians and Australians.

Only because they unlike other nationalities don't have to provide proof of income at there consulates and embassies.

Basically our respective governments choose not to verify income as other countries do so immigration is doing it for them.

There is going to be a lot of people seeking other ways and means to stay here. I sincerely hope they find them.

65,000 Baht for a single person is ridiculous high. 40,000 for a married person makes more sense. I still haven't been able to figure that one out. My wife saves me nothing she cost me about 15,000 Baht a month money well spent.

And to top it all off they give visa's and work permits to teachers who in general do not even make 30,000 Baht.

[hml367]

OK, I'll cool down and just smile thru all the abuse heaped on Americans. I'll start paying attention to this topic again when we're a month away from Hubby's visit to Immigration for his 12 month visa extension based on retriement to see which way the winds are blowing.

You could also visit the Immigration office and ask them what is required for the extension. In my experience they have been most helpful in providing information when asked.

MSPain

[Ulysses G.]

And to top it all off they give visa's and work permits to teachers who in general do not even make 30,000 Baht.

That is because they need teachers and no one is going to pay an English teacher with a BA in Philosophy 65,000 baht a month.

[afarang]

But if a "teacher" can live in Bkk., on B30,000 a month, why do they (in charge) set the bar so high for retirees?Especially ,when most of us do NOT live in Bkk. .I live in isarn, where the cost of living is much cheaper than Bkk. I spend less than B40,000 a month to support myself, my lady and her 3 children. 2 of whom go to school and one who is 7 months pregnant, and of course is only 16 years of age. I lead a very comfortable life ,am quite content,To a comment about coming here to live, Can I say ,they have changed the rules so many times , since I first came here to live ,in 1989. My first teaching job ,paid B12,000 per month( Govt. College). That was the award rate, back then.

[Ulysses G.]

Are you looking for logic here? TIT!

[afarang]

Of course not. It was written in reply to Beetlejuice, who made a statement that we should know the rules , before we decide to settle here. As I said, I have been living here since 1989, How many times have the rules been changed ? I don't know ,but many. Remember ,the salary to teach in a Govt. uni , when I first taught here ,was B12,000 per month. So, please do not say ,we need to know the rules before we choose to live here.

[Dante99]

The American Consulate has decided (very wisely) that since most American retirees have various sources of income, they don't have the resources available to double check the veracity of everyone's private pension statement, rental income, investment funds, annuities, etc. Now we hear a rumor that the Thai government feels they have the resources to do that.

Yes, to the point. Given the difficulties in verifying income, not just for Americans, Immigration will probably not try to do it. They do however have other easier alternatives, easier than trying to verify income.

Anyway, it seems that they are not yet doing anything different and they may never get around to changing the requirements. So relax, wait and see.

[ed53]

Hello,

My wife and I got our 1 year permission to stay extension to our O-A retirement visa 3 weeks ago. The income letter was all we needed (we are American). Soon as the staff member saw the letter, everything went very smoothly. I did hear that there's been a new person at Immigration sent up from Bangkok and that this person is responsible for the crack down on musicians.

[ataloss]

hellodolly said:'This applies to Americans Canadians and Australians. Only because they unlike other nationalities don't have to provide proof of income at there consulates and embassies.'

From where did you derive this erroneous statement? Some Americans on the forum stated their word would suffice, but nothing yet from Aussie retirees.

The Canadian consulate, in contrast, does require verifiable proof of retirement income before the Canadian Consul would consent to sign off on a confirmation letter to Chiangmai Immigration. Cost: 1600B

[hml367]

The American Consulate has decided (very wisely) that since most American retirees have various sources of income, they don't have the resources available to double check the veracity of everyone's private pension statement, rental income, investment funds, annuities, etc. Now we hear a rumor that the Thai government feels they have the resources to do that.

Yes, to the point. Given the difficulties in verifying income, not just for Americans, Immigration will probably not try to do it. They do however have other easier alternatives, easier than trying to verify income.

Anyway, it seems that they are not yet doing anything different and they may never get around to changing the requirements. So relax, wait and see.

Referencing the statement that the American Consulate has decided..... I think it is the State Department, not the Consulate, that has made the decision. I believe that it is possible to get something from the State Department verifying income, however, it requires more than just a little work to get that. Maybe too much blame is put on the Consulate, as well as Thai Immigration, for doing (or not doing) as they are told to do.

Having worked in industries in the US that required verifiable income, it seems to me that it would be quite difficulte for the American Consulate to verify any income, other than Federal Benefits, given the amount of sources that income could come from.

Now to the original line of the thread.... I extended my O-A permission to stay on June 10 with only the affidavit from the Consulate. As I have posted, the answer from Thai Immigration as to what was needed was sufficient for my inquiry.

MSPain

[hml367]

Office of Authentications

The Department of State, Authentications Office is responsible for signing and issuing certificates under the Seal of the U.S. Department of State (22 CFR, Part 131) providing authentication services to U.S. citizens and foreign nationals on documents that will be used overseas. This office receives a variety of documents from commercial organizations, private citizens, and officials of the Federal and State governments. Documents include but not limited to: company bylaws, powers of attorney, trademarks, diplomas, transcripts, distributorship agreements, articles of incorporation, good standing certificates, home studies, letters of reference etc. It also ensures that the requested information will serve in the interest of justice and is not contrary to U.S. policy.

MSPain

[amexpat]

Back to the link in post #1:

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

Reported by whom? Should people just pay a legal service several thousand baht to handle the renewal for them?

[hml367]

Back to the link in post #1:

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

Reported by whom? Should people just pay a legal service several thousand baht to handle the renewal for them?

Look at the last paragraph in my post #44.

MSPAIN

[amexpat]

Look at the satire in my last sentence.

Too subtle again. Sorry about that.

[hml367]

Look at the satire in my last sentence.

Too subtle again. Sorry about that.

Got it!!! Sorry I missed that.

MSPain

[NancyL]

Thank you hml367 (MSPain?) and ed53 for recent and specific information about experiences at the Chiang Mai immigration office. That's news we can use vs. the conjecture, resentment and fear-mongering that makes up most of this thread.

[Ulysses G.]

...conjecture, resentment and fear-mongering...

Isn't the Internet wonderful?

[hml367]

Thank you hml367 (MSPain?) and ed53 for recent and specific information about experiences at the Chiang Mai immigration office. That's news we can use vs. the conjecture, resentment and fear-mongering that makes up most of this thread.

Remember also that the Immigration officer can ask for more verification if they want to. I don't personally know anyone that had to do more than the affidavit yet.

MSPain

[fcgprg]

If you have the original documentation from wherever your income is coming from for that year you will never get a problem at imigration.I do not have any investments that i do not get a confirmation letter every year from the companys involved or the uk government for the amount paid to me in the preceding year.The letter from the consul confirms the letters are genuine as far as they are aware. If immigration needed me to get proof that the letters are genuine and the amounts received are true that can easily done by me.

[Dean1953]

Its too bad that I can't count the 5.8 million baht that I spent, buying the land and building the house that I have in Chiang Mai. I forgot, they are assets of my thai wife, not mine. Since I live in the U.S. for at least another 7-8 years before returning to Thailand, I'm not going to worry about the present immigration laws, as they will probably change substantially before I move back. At least, since I'm married to a thai, I have to only substantiate 400,000 baht a year for a marriage visa. Didn't Taksin double the amounts required for both a retirement and a marriage visa in the early 2000's, after the baht went from 30-1 to 45-1and upwards. Now that the exchange rate is back to 30-1, any chance that the 400,000 and 800,000 amounts will be lowered?

[Hog Head]

I am going to change from retirement to married this year to get grandfathered at 400K as it galls me to have 800K in the bank doing nothing, on top of the 500 I have to put up to get a "credit" card.

Granted you only need the 800K for 90 days prior, but it still annoys me.

[NancyL]

In an effort to report on the OP's question -- today Hubby talked with an American who was fresh from doing his 12-month retirement extension at CM Immigration. Hubby's friend presented all his copies and his American Consulate income letter and asked if they needed any additional documents. The answer was "no", everything was complete.

Like many of us, his friend would have problems in coming up with proof of his income in a form that looked really official since all his financial transactions and reporting is done via the internet and he uses his U.S.-issued credit card to handle most of his expenses here, paying his credit card bill from a U.S. bank account.

[Mapguy]

I do not think NancyL's last post is altogether helpful.

What the hell is "a form that looked really official." Oy! Let's not get paranoid here!

No, there are no "new" requirements for extensions. The office is still accepting the consular affidavits. Be glad, unless you show up in floppies for a renewal smelling like last week's garbage wearing a singlet over your unzipped shorts. Then, beyond being insulted by you, they might wonder about your credentials.

And, as indicated, if the office wishes to have more proof than that which is always an officer's privilege --- it is not terribly hard, with some preparation, to provide it regardless of its electronic (or other) nature (as she indicates some doubts). Or, if you really are THAT concerned, take your bloody laptop computer or smart phone and with the office's wifi connection or your own satellite connection, go to your banks' web sites and show them !!! I guarantee you'll blow them away! Realistically, just take along some of the original annual reports (generally received by mail as as well as electronically), copies of bank statements and transfers, pension declarations, et cetera. If YOU can understand and explain them, they will.

All of the fuss and bother of repeated threads regarding immigration containing a huge proportion of crap posts lead me to think there are a lot of people out there simply scared of getting caught trying to beat the system or don't have a great amount of common sense and organization of their affairs! Well, there is also some paranoia, I guess!

[hellodolly]

I do not think NancyL's last post is altogether helpful.

What the hell is "a form that looked really official." Oy! Let's not get paranoid here!

No, there are no "new" requirements for extensions. The office is still accepting the consular affidavits. Be glad, unless you show up in floppies for a renewal smelling like last week's garbage wearing a singlet over your unzipped shorts. Then, beyond being insulted by you, they might wonder about your credentials.

And, as indicated, if the office wishes to have more proof than that which is always an officer's privilege --- it is not terribly hard, with some preparation, to provide it regardless of its electronic (or other) nature (as she indicates some doubts). Or, if you really are THAT concerned, take your bloody laptop computer or smart phone and with the office's wifi connection or your own satellite connection, go to your banks' web sites and show them !!! I guarantee you'll blow them away! Realistically, just take along some of the original annual reports (generally received by mail as as well as electronically), copies of bank statements and transfers, pension declarations, et cetera. If YOU can understand and explain them, they will.

All of the fuss and bother of repeated threads regarding immigration containing a huge proportion of crap posts lead me to think there are a lot of people out there simply scared of getting caught trying to beat the system or don't have a great amount of common sense and organization of their affairs! Well, there is also some paranoia, I guess!

With the latest statement from immigration the US, Canada and Australia are going to be doing the same as every other country in the world only because there countries do not ask for proof Immigration is doing it for them. What is the problem.

My question is even with the proof do I still need the paper from my consulate. I will be going in early October and just to be sure I will also take one with me. By then we should have some real time experience. I am not sure but I thought they were going to start checking in July.

I hope you are right about the lack of common sense. For a US citizen it could just be arrogance I would hope not.

[NancyL]

Oh, that sounds really smart! Use an unsecured wifi network to log into my financial institutions to show accounts to an Immigration official. Better yet, why not just use their computers so they can log your keystrokes?

[fcgprg]

The same ground is being covered over and over again .Original documents are enough if the Immigration Officer wants them .We get quarterly reports for our investments plus a yearly report all sent to our address in Thailand they always arrive .I dont know of any investment company or financial institution that does not send out a annual report for any investment held with them .If they did not i send a annula report at least they would not be holding my money for much longer.