Wife As Guarantor...

[Bottlerocket]

If a woman is a business owner and has sufficient income, can she support her foreign husband allowing him to obtain a marriage visa?

I wonder if any foreign wives married to Thai men are reading this? If so, are the financial requirements to obtain your visa the same or can your husband support you?

[lopburi3]

There is no marriage visa as what people have is a support Thai wife extension of stay. The husband is expected to be the one doing the supporting in a marriage so you have a foreign husband supporting or a Thai husband supporting as the normal types of extension of stay recognized by immigration.

[sbk]

And no, the financial requirements for the Thai husband supporting a foreign wife are not the same.

Very old fashioned if you ask me, here the man is the legal head of the household, therefore he is the one supporting the family.

[Bottlerocket]

And no, the financial requirements for the Thai husband supporting a foreign wife are not the same.

Very old fashioned if you ask me, here the man is the legal head of the household, therefore he is the one supporting the family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Once again just a vacuous title with no basis in reality. Could you direct me to the information about the requirements for a Thai husband supporting a foreign wife? Much appreciated.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

I am not qualified to comment but am fully qualified to attempt to be controversial.

The following is lifted from a link "non-immigrant visa" accessed from the top of the home page of Thaivisa.com!

4. Applying for an extension for aliens who support or are being supported by a spouse with Thai nationality or who has residence in Thailand Initial place to contact:

An alien must apply for a non-immigrant visa "code O" at a Thai Embassy or Consulate abroad before entering the Kingdom. Duration of first permit: As warranted by this visa, permission is given for a period of 90 days. Duration of extension: The Immigration Office will grant him a maximum extension of one year at a time.

My bold type.

[lopburi3]

And no, the financial requirements for the Thai husband supporting a foreign wife are not the same.

Very old fashioned if you ask me, here the man is the legal head of the household, therefore he is the one supporting the family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Once again just a vacuous title with no basis in reality. Could you direct me to the information about the requirements for a Thai husband supporting a foreign wife? Much appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...hp?page=service

Click Visa Extension and then second file down.

[Jim 50]

And no, the financial requirements for the Thai husband supporting a foreign wife are not the same.

Very old fashioned if you ask me, here the man is the legal head of the household, therefore he is the one supporting the family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And so often they do not support at all.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Bottlerocket

I have read your 2 posts several times and find them ambiguous

Your initial post implies you are a Thai woman seeking to support a foreign husband or possibly a foreign women seeing to support a foreign man viz....If a woman is a business owner and has sufficient income, can she support her foreign husband allowing him to obtain a marriage visa?

Your second post refers to a Thai man supporting a foreign wife....viz.Could you direct me to the information about the requirements for a Thai husband supporting a foreign wife?

Do you envisage a gender reassignment during your stay?

What exactly are you asking?

Whatever, the answer is to your question whichever way you interpret it is, actually and emphatically, YES any thing is possible. But expect difficulties along the way.

Hope I have been of help.

[dannishgung]

If you are a business Thai woman and have more than 40K a year to support your husband then immigration should issue your husband the visa extension same as the opposite around.

A Thai lawyer friend told me in this case if your husband is not given a extension and try to separate you two, then you can sue the immigration bureau for sex discrimination in court. He said you will definitely win the case in court and also get lots of media attention as well. He said many lawyers will be willing to fight the case for free for publicity purpose.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

I have a friend who had been employed in Thailand continously and legitimately since 1989. Quite well paid but profligate. However he set his Thai wife up in a small business.

In 2003 out of the blue he lost his job and work permit. No compensation. No money in his bank account. No income. About 2 months AFTER his visa expired he spoke to a lawyer with contacts. He then went to immigration who admonished him for using the lawyer as an intermediary (he was told next time you have a problem come and talk to us yourself). They overlooked his overstay and granted him a one year O visa (back-dated to the expiry of his B visa) on the grounds of his wifes support (20K/mth at that time). He left Thailand with his wife after one year (no way could not live on her income) but has now returned having been offered new employment.

To what extent Immigration were sympathetically using their discretion or whether they were applying the law I have no idea. Bit of both?

[Bottlerocket]

Bottlerocket

I have read your 2 posts several times and find them ambiguous

Your initial post implies you are a Thai woman seeking to support a foreign husband or possibly a foreign women seeing to support a foreign man viz....If a woman is a business owner and has sufficient income, can she support her foreign husband allowing him to obtain a marriage visa?

Your second post refers to a Thai man supporting a foreign wife....viz.Could you direct me to the information about the requirements for a Thai husband supporting a foreign wife?

Do you envisage a gender reassignment during your stay?

What exactly are you asking?

Whatever, the answer is to your question whichever way you interpret it is, actually and emphatically, YES any thing is possible. But expect difficulties along the way.

Hope I have been of help.

Ambiguity of purpose is my concern. I'm just asking for information. Dannishgung provided me with what I was looking for and, if you must know, it was in regard to sexual discrimination. If my spouse and I choose this option (wife sponsors foreign husband) for our visa purposes, then we will seek legal counsel should any obstacles emerge, as they already have. A phone call to immigration was answered with, "No, we do not do this. The man must support the wife." It was very emphatic. Although the culture may consider the "man" the head of household the law doesn't--even here. And, no, you weren't helpful. You were condescending, prying, and just shy of absurd.

What's ambiguous about this:

Could you direct me to the information about the requirements for a Thai husband supporting a foreign wife?

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Wow,

.....if you must know.......prying.......

Quilty.

But hey, if you don't want people to try and elicit more information don't post here. But please read on. I will try to be brief.

The intention of my first post was to provide evidence to support my understanding that the law DOES allows a Thai woman to support her Foreign husband. I researched before posting but the only evidence I could find other than what I post contradicted me, hence my comment about trying to be controversial.

My third post was intended to confirm that it could be done in pratice (the content is 100% genuine). I did not post this earlier beause I am well aware that anyone reading “I know somebody who…” will always think “oh yeah”. I would not have posted if Dannishgung had not posted. However I would take his last para with a big pinch of salt.

I think I have proved I was genuinly trying to assist you.

My 2nd post., to which you take exception, was intended to be light hearted but with serious intent (in the British character), and if you look through this site you will find this to be not uncommon. Why did I post it. Firstly because I was truly confused as to what you were asking (OK that’s my problem). Secondly I wasn’t sure if you were making an academic query (to avoid being too long winded I won’t explain why this makes a difference), or if you are foreign in which case there are other routes for your husband to obtain a visa. Thirdly although this a serious and engaging issue I believe you can often obtain more contibutions by trying to be humourous.

With hindsight, this is your first time on this site and you would not have been expecting flippant responses. So I accept an error of judgement on my part.

I believe the law is on your side and wish you well but I do not believe sexual discrimination is as enshrined in Thai law as in western countries. Look in any job advert specifying applicant must be male or female.

Lopburi3 has said no provision for a foreign man to get visa based on income of Thai woman. And trust me despite what I and Dannishgung have said you would be well advised against dismissing Lop. If Dannishgung or someone could identify the applicable Thai Law that would close.

I suggest you visit immigration before paying out legal fees. I think you are less likely to receive an immediate brush off as you did on the phone .

Whatever, I am sorry if I have offended you. I assure you it was not my intent.

I wish you the best of luck. And please post back when all is sorted.

[Nam Kao]

>>>Very old fashioned if you ask me, here the man is the legal head of the household, therefore he is the one supporting the family.

--------------------

Dont get out of line either

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Nam Kao,

One things for sure. In law the man may indeed be the head of the household but I'd be too sh"t scared to tell my "wife" that. I don't think she'd respond simply with "you're "just shy of being absurd""

Got to close now she's just come back from spending my (sorry, her) money... but just time to sense check to see if I've been overly nosey, prying or condescending. Think it'll pass the censor so here goes......

[sbk]

A phone call to immigration was answered with, "No, we do not do this. The man must support the wife." It was very emphatic.

I would heed what the immigration officer told you since they are the ones that make the decision. And just because there isn't a law specifically covering it, they obviously feel they know the regulations and have made that clear.

[KronbergTH]

Hi,

In case of Visa 0, whether you submit 40K a month or 400K in bank, you have to show evidence for the 40K a month or the 400K in bank, and how come you have 400K in bank.

If the wife is the one to deposit 400K a year in bank, it should be okay. But I am not sure whether pocket money 40K a month from the wife is okay as there is no evidence.

[lopburi3]

Hi,

In case of Visa 0, whether you submit 40K a month or 400K in bank, you have to show evidence for the 40K a month or the 400K in bank, and how come you have 400K in bank.

If the wife is the one to deposit 400K a year in bank, it should be okay. But I am not sure whether pocket money 40K a month from the wife is okay as there is no evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless you have a work permit the money source should be foreign. That rules out the wife topping up the 400k in most cases (especially if husband is under age 50 and thus expected to be employed).

[KronbergTH]

Hi,

The money source should be foreign.

Yeah, you are right according to the new regulatons, BUT are we sure that Immigration never will accept 400K a year in bank from Thai wife? She could anyway transfer them to an abroad bank and return again?

[lopburi3]

I would never say never as that is older then me.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Kronberg,

Before I start. I am currently partially confined to barracks (apart from unwelcome visits to the dentist and even less welcome visits to immigration) whilst recuperating from an illness. I share this with you in case anyone is wondering why an avalanche of posts from me, a newbie. You can get hooked on issues raised in this excellent forum.

I don’t quite understand your point, but here, for my benefit, is a summation of the issue.

If a Thai man has a Foreign wife she can obtain an extension of stay on the basis he is supporting her. Strictly speaking he obtains the extension on her behalf and neither have to provide evidence of income/savings (so how does he support her? Maybe he has wealthy relatives). Anyway as always immigration have the discretionary powers to request more documentation.

Ignoring the specific circumstance of the OP this thread raises 3 simple but fascinating questions. (a) Does the law apply equally to a Thai woman with a farang husband; (b)if NO, does it apply but with conditions; © if NO or if the law is ambiguous are there sex discrimination laws which can be applied to force imm. to treat men and women equally

In the OP’s specific case there is an easy and unlitmately cheaper solution. Transfer money abroad and then have it transferred back into hubbies bank a/c and then he can get an extension based on supporting her. She has already hit a brick wall but my guess is if she wants to be a womens rights campaigner and persevere she will ultimately succeed after incurring large legal costs. She appears to have the determination for it.

However, and again for my benefit, to clarify my conjectures and opinions on the legal issues raised:

It is cetainly understood that if a foreign man is married to a Thai it is he who must demonstrate that he is supporting her and visa/extension conditions reinforce this understanding but that doesn't make it law.

I imagine the law is amiguous . It would not have been drafted with this situation in mind –woman supporting the man –not in Thai culture. So it wouldn’t specifically say NO to (a) and therefore would not include any conditon to satisfy (.

Just imagine the consequences if the answer to (a) is YES. Every penniless reprobate would be heading to Thailand (those few that aren’t already here) to grab himself a Thai wife? So even if a court found in favour of (a) the government would block it. It would have to.

Unambiguous sex discrimination laws –oh yeah!

My guess is that Immigration may permit an application to succeed on compassionate grounds e.g. someone has lived and worked here for years and suddenly because of age or circumstance finds themselves unemployed. He has no income/money but his prudent wife has saved some or she has relatives who would support them. (However Imm, would be more likely to give/extend visa based on his support for a Thai wife and ignore the income requirements –and upon reflection this was pobably the situation in respect of a real situation I gave in a previous post).

I make no apologies for trying to continue this thread. I hope someone out there can give authoritative, evidence backed, answers.

.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

My apologies for those who are thoroughly bored by all this.

Section 34 of the Immigration Act (published on many sites) concerning temporary stay in the kingdom does not refer to support for or by a Thai spouse, but Clause 15 refers to

Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

A sort of catch all which probably also encompasses retirement.

So we (I) need to read the ministerial regulations. Many Ministerial Regulations are published on the internet by academic and business organisations but I cannot find links to Immigration Regulations.

Any hackers out there.

The Law refers throughout to Aliens and nowhere makes a gender distinction. But that proves nothing.

[Maestro]

Section 34 of the Immigration Act (published on many sites) concerning temporary stay in the kingdom does not refer to support for or by a Thai spouse, but Clause 15 refers to

      Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

…

The Law refers throughout to Aliens and nowhere makes a gender distinction. But that proves nothing.

SALN, I wish you a speedy recovery from your illness!

Talking about Ministerial Regulations – published in the Government Gazette but difficult to track down; usually best obtained by asking for a copy at the appropriate department of the appropriate Ministry – it has been my experience that Thai civil servants are very careful not to do anything that is not permitted by these regulations. And in addition to the law and the regulations, there are also internal guidelines, not published.

The gender distinction would appear to be in a Ministerial Regulation, and it would of course be a relatively simple matter for the Minister to get that changed if he saw fit to do so.

[Maestro]

      Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

After doing some more research I realised that an alien being supported by his Thai wife would not apply for a “marriage visa” but for a non-O visa for the purpose of “visiting family and friends”. Once in Thailand, he would then apply for a one-year extension of stay.

The issuance of visas is the subject of a Ministerial Regulation.

The authority to extend the stay rests with the Director General of the Police Department, who probably issued guidelines on this matter. In other words, it would be even much simpler to change these guidelines than a Ministerial regulation.

I assume the question of the original poster, Bottlerock, was hypothetical and does not relate to an actual case. However, if it does and if the Thai wife wishes to get equality established, it may not be necessary to bring the case to court and incur enormous legal expenses. A polite letter to the Director General explaining this inequality and requesting a meeting to present her case may get her an appointment with the Director General. If this doesn’t do the trick, seeing that the latest trend in Thailand is to bring grievances to the Human Rights Commission, this is what she could do.

But let us remember that the whole purpose of these extensions of stay for aliens with a non-O visa seems to be the bringing of foreign exchange into Thailand, viz. minimum bank balance with money to come from abroad. To establish equality, the Director General would then have to rule that the stay can be extended for an alien supporting his Thai wife or being supported by his Thai wife, and leave unchanged the condition that the money for this support has to come from abroad. Wouldn’t’ that be a typical, face-saving solution?

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Maestro,

(Thankyou for your good wishes. In fact I haven't felt so good in years as I've had to severly cut back alcohol intake. Trouble is I now wake up and think , Oh god another day in LOS. But not long now, waking up with a hangover you rarely know where you are.....)

But , Maestro, watch your back. This was not a hypothetical query. The OP is a womens rights firebrand, and she didn't take to me. Read earlier posts. I doubt if she's reading this now:she's made up her mind. So watch out T Shinawatra...I'd be quaking if I were he.

There are many ways to get a visa for Hubbie but she don't want that. Oh no.

I would be amazed if out there there were not one or two farangs being supported by their Thai families. However OP wants to make an equal rights issue....and seriously, good on her...I want the right to be supported by my wife. Poor soul doesn't know what I've got planned. She's only got herself to blame. I showed her the original post and she told me she thought OP had a case.

Right on with the show....

Ministerial Regulations are made, self evidently by the Minister but he has to make them in accordance with the Law which gives him a great deal of leeway. However he has to accept advice from a commission. The Police Director General interprets the Regulations. On complex issues, such as this, he reports back.

Therefore, further to your Para 4, before going to the Human Rights Commision (last resort, we're not talking torture, illegal imprisonment here) the next steps are to approach the Imm.Commission and then the Minister or maybe the other way round. You need to exhaust all legal avenues reasonably open to you before involving HRC.

If she uses a lawyer she will be taken to the cleaners.

[Maestro]

If she uses a lawyer she will be taken to the cleaners.

She may have to choose: either spend her money on lawyers or on her husband

[TAWP]

So what is the verdict:

Can a wife support her husband on his O-visa extension?

If Yes, is the sum of her salary 40K/month (registered) enough? Or does it have to be higher?

And lastly: How much does Siam-Legal charge me for helping me with this when I need help? =)

[sbk]

Maestro,

(Thankyou for your good wishes. In fact I haven't felt so good in years as I've had to severly cut back alcohol intake. Trouble is I now wake up and think , Oh god another day in LOS. But not long now, waking up with a hangover you rarely know where you are.....)

But , Maestro, watch your back. This was not a hypothetical query. The OP is a womens rights firebrand, and she didn't take to me. Read earlier posts. I doubt if she's reading this now:she's made up her mind. So watch out T Shinawatra...I'd be quaking if I were he.

There are many ways to get a visa for Hubbie but she don't want that. Oh no. 

I would be amazed if out there there were not one or two farangs being supported by their Thai families. However OP wants to make an equal rights issue....and seriously, good on her...I want the right to be supported by my wife. Poor soul doesn't know what I've got planned. She's only got herself to blame. I showed her the original post and she told me she thought OP had a case.

Right on with the show....

Ministerial Regulations are made, self evidently by the Minister but he has to make them in accordance with the Law which gives him a great deal of leeway. However he has to accept advice from a commission. The Police Director General interprets the Regulations. On complex issues, such as this, he reports back.

Therefore, further to your Para 4, before going to the Human Rights Commision (last resort, we're not talking torture, illegal imprisonment here) the next steps are to approach the Imm.Commission and then the Minister or maybe the other way round. You need to exhaust all legal avenues reasonably open to you before involving HRC.

If she uses a lawyer she will be taken to the cleaners.

How do you know? The OP doesn't really write like a woman to me and frankly, the previous posts don't give a clear indication of gender at all.

Frankly, I have seen this kind of posting before and invariably it has been from men.

[Maestro]

4. Applying for an extension for aliens who support or are being supported by a spouse with Thai nationality or who has residence in Thailand Initial place to contact:

An alien must apply for a non-immigrant visa "code O" at a Thai Embassy or Consulate abroad before entering the Kingdom. Duration of first permit: As warranted by this visa, permission is given for a period of 90 days. Duration of extension: The Immigration Office will grant him a maximum extension of one year at a time.

I’ve noticed this just now. Does the Thai language make a difference between him and her?

The English language site of the Thai Immigration Bureau, on the other hand, is clearly gender-specific:

– to support a wife who is Thai citizen or who is a permanent resident (alien husband)

– to receive the support from a husband who is a Thai citizen or a Thai permanent resident (an alien wife)

Click on [ ภาษาไทย ] for the Thai text (which I cannot read)

The first in my list refers to the alien who supports , the second to the alien who is being supported on that ThaiVisa page, which would seem to need an overhaul.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

SBK,

Is OP a man or a woman?

I asked that in my second post.

I was embarrassed by the reply,assumed it was a woman, and gave a grovelling response.

Its neither. It's a TROLL and I'm a SUCKER.

Am I further embarrased. YES.

[EVO]

Slightly different but my visa is a dependant visa of my wife though she is not Thai but working on a work permit.

I had no problems getting my visa with the help of her company.

Im on Non O dependant visa.

Actually, i kinda like my status!!!! Shame im not really the kept husband i would like to be!