Lost My Thai Kids To 'Supermom'

[jaideeguy]

10 years ago I married a 29 yr old single mom from Essan [non bar girl] and she came with her 2 children. In the beginning, I had visions of raising her kids in a semi falang style......not wanting to force my western ways on them, as I would have settled for a 40% share of falang influence.....they were her Thai children and ages 1 and 3yrs, so there was some chance of some of my falang influence rubbing off on them......but NOT.

My Thai wife is a 'super mom' in that she can do no wrong and she smothers them in love and what I call 'spoiling' them. I have hardly any demands on the kids......have never abused them and only spanked the boy once when he was experimenting with a lighter and almost burnt the sofa. It hurt my hand more than his jeaned ass and that was the only time that I have disciplined them physically.

I have always tried to encourage them [and the wife] to eat a balanced diet....but the wife always lets them slide with vegetables and is always buying them sweets, fried foods as well as tons of junk foods. If I object, that makes me the 'bad guy' or 'the enforcer' and mom continues to do no wrong.

Now that they are 11 and 13, they both have computers and the boy @ 13 yrs is totally addicted to games and is on the computer 12 hrs a day on weekends and 5 hrs a day on school days.....no social life, no interests, zero curiosity. Again, I have to be the bad guy and limit his game addiction....with very little support from the wife. In all fairness,they both get 'average' grades in school and will grow up to be 'good little Thai robots', rather than curious and wanting to think 'outside the box'.

I gave up on having the 40% influence on them years ago and now the sad reality is that I'm lucky if I have 5% influence at this point.

These kids will be totally useless for their future at this rate.

Just wondering if other Thai falang relationships are similar?? I am almost ready to give up and go my own way at this point, because all I feel like is an ATM that pays for their junk food and computers........maybe it would be best for them all to experience some 'harsh reality' for a change?

[sbk]

Honestly, it sounds like my (Thai) brother in law and his (Thai) wife. She spoiled the kids rotten, undermined his authority at every step of the way. Finally, he just bowed out of it all when he realized what she was up to. Stayed married, fed the kids and her, kept them clothed, but since his parenting was always being undermined, questioned and downright ignored, he gave up. Can't say I blame him.

The oldest kid is a yaba addict, not much hope for him tbh, quite sad as he was a nice kid. The second kid (both boys as well) was turning into a bully before he went off to school on the mainland. Don't see much of him anymore so no idea if he's bullying there or not, but I would presume so.

[jaideeguy]

Honestly, it sounds like my (Thai) brother in law and his (Thai) wife. She spoiled the kids rotten, undermined his authority at every step of the way. Finally, he just bowed out of it all when he realized what she was up to. Stayed married, fed the kids and her, kept them clothed, but since his parenting was always being undermined, questioned and downright ignored, he gave up. Can't say I blame him.

The oldest kid is a yaba addict, not much hope for him tbh, quite sad as he was a nice kid. The second kid (both boys as well) was turning into a bully before he went off to school on the mainland. Don't see much of him anymore so no idea if he's bullying there or not, but I would presume so.

Thanks SBK....your post doesn't paint a rosy picture of the kid's futures. Mine, hopefully won't go with drugs, as 'moma' wouldn't approve of that route, but my worst fears are that they will grow up in this uncertain, insane new world with no marketable skills and even now, you need a college education to get a job at McDonnalds or any job that doesn't require back breaking labor.

Another difference is that your brother in law's kids are most probably his kids? and my [not legally adopted] kids are 'supermom's' and that leaves me with less influence, as blood is thicker than baht.

My main intention with my kids was to just open doors of oportunity and to offer tools, like English speaking and good habits as well as curiosity about what's outside this little 'box called Thailand' and it's not happening.

[OlafStapleton]

I never understand people that have relationship like this.

If you not father, and they not respect you, then why bother.

As one young person said to me (in Europe), you just a guy f%$king my mother, who are you to tell me what I do.

My answer

I not have children like that in my household, I say to children, "go live with someone else".

If mother not like, I say to her, "go live with someone else".

Plenty of women want husband who look after!

Edited June 15, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[venturalaw]

To the OP, I appreciate you bring up this topic. I read your opening post to my Thai wife. Although I've been harping on the differences in our approach to child rearing, i.e. my expressing the importance of boundaries, not letting our child do whatever his little heart desires, and not letting him play with whatever he sees (wallet, car keys, pots and pans, etc.) instead of his "own toys". It's always good to bring up real life examples such as yours.

What my wife really has taken notice of is that our child respects me more than her. He behaves with me, not always with her. I have never hit him, but he knows that when I say no, it's no. When his mother says no, it's maybe. In all fairness, my wife is learning, but it is a matter of undoing the familiar. It takes time, effort, but certainly is worth it.

[vont]

i hope you are not giving up as yet.

like others already said.... you need to set limits like during school day, you can play with the computer only 30 minutes and you can play only after you finish up all your school work....

to mother and kids.... you have 3 meals a day.... period

your food allowance is..... includes nicks nacks

and your household allowance is.....

your daily school money is....

you study from ..... to .....

you play computer from..... to ..... ONLY IF YOU FOLLOW MY REQUEST EACH TIME....

what i said above amongst some others, are what i have been practising.... with complete 100% success..... so far.... keeping my fingers crossed..... :jap:

perhaps, you ought to give it a try and see....

wish you success.

whatever you do.... place a stop to what is happening by first discussing with your wife..... the welfare of her own as well as the two children....

perhaps, if she understands your good and wonderful intentions for her and the children.....

and what you do expect of her and the children....

and what would happen eventually....

if she and the children fail to help you

to help everyone in the family to live better and have a happier family life....;

she and the childlren.... just might.... turn around and see your point of view and good intention for everyone....

good luck.... and success.... ok? :jap:

your

Edited June 15, 2011 by vont

[gregb]

I gave up on having the 40% influence on them years ago and now the sad reality is that I'm lucky if I have 5% influence at this point.

This is all well and good if your intention is to truly abandon these children to their fate. If you want to be a father to them though, irrespective of your genetic relationship to them, then you have to act like a father, even when it appears you have no influence.

Children will remember how you treated them. It may take a decade or two, but by acting like a true parent, setting limits, teaching them good moral values and demanding respect you will imprint in their minds how to behave. When they finally become mature enough to understand what you were doing, they will respect you for that, and you may finally have that relationship you don't have now.

Nobody says that will be easy, but if you quit, then you have nobody to blame but yourself. They will remember in this case that their mom spoiled them, and that you stood by and let it happen. Is that how you want to be remembered? If that thought bothers you, then stay true to yourself. You may not have any authority now to affect their behavior or the mom's behavior, but that doesn't mean the children won't remember the example you set. They might not respond to it right away, but they will remember.

[MikeyIdea]

My bet; You are never going to succeed getting through to the kids because the mother actively works against that

Threats are not going to wake up the mother, discussions like: "I am going to leave you and your kids in 6 months and you should be aware of that I have no obligations" will be met with boredom. The ONLY thing that works is raw action

Good Luck

[seedy]

It happens everywhere - not just Thailand.

My 24 year old son brags about the amount of time he plays 'World of Warcraft'

Just works enough to pay his rent, buy food, a big bag of wacky tabacci, and plunks himself down in front of the monitor.

I finally - for my own peace of mind - left him to find his own way.

Toughest decision of my life, but it was required I believe if I wanted to retain what little sanity I have left.

To Thine Own Self Be True.

Good Luck

[Wallaby]

I do not envy your position. It is sad when one parent excludes the other.

I have no real experience in this but if it were me, I'd start cutting off the funds to them. Not all funds, pay schooling and good food etc but you may want to do things like putting a lock on the computer and tell them that if they want to play games then they have to pay for it, out of their own allowance etc.

Same with the mother, if she is buying crap food etc then work out how much she spends on those things and reduce her allowance by that amount.

You can set your own rules. Make sure you tell them what they are. Do homework first or the computer is locked in the cupboard for the night. Those sorts of things.

If the wife complains just shrug it off. If she wants to give them all the things they ask for then she can pay for them. Up to her.

I wish you good luck.

[vont]

My bet; You are never going to succeed getting through to the kids because the mother actively works against that

Threats are not going to wake up the mother, discussions like: "I am going to leave you and your kids in 6 months and you should be aware of that I have no obligations" will be met with boredom. The ONLY thing that works is raw action

Good Luck

i am surprised at your suggestion.

you are not assuming that all women are of the same lazy characteristics, are you?

how would the man know, if the toughening up approach will have any affect or not?

by taking a selfish way out like you suggest.... to me.... it shows a lesser man....

not giving another human another chance or two, is to conclude that you are much better than the other person, whoever that maybe....

that you know for sure that the other person would not come around, if given a chance or two....

on this point, i disagree with you wholeheartedly.... sorry mike....

for those especially close to you, particularly, the lady and children in question, you ought to work even much harder on their behalves.... per chance.... they would come around....

or that you would come around to them..... and see their point of view.....

[Nawtier]

put your foot down.....grow a set....and go buy a pair of pants.

Super Mom my arse......

[MikeyIdea]

Hi Vont,

I don't recommend the solution, I am just saying what is going to be the response of the mother. The mothers reaction is not related to being lazy at all, has nothing to do with laziness.

It's ATTITUDE

It's important to understand what is driving the mother to come up with a strategy that can better benefit the children

Edited June 16, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[champken]

Stop trying to be something you are not "their father"..and you will never be thought of as such, and yes as hard as might be to accept, you probably are not much more to them than an ATM , wifey included

[Mirth]

Parenting comes differently to everyone. Some people feel that you just have to love them, others say be stern. For me, giving in to the children is not love but spoiling and striking fear is not stern but strict. Am in the middle path, i give in after things are done, like finish your homework before any cartoons, pick up own things or dining table are for meals. Am more concern about the little small things now since they are still young. Greatest satisfaction are when they are told to do otherwise by someone else but they reply in negative cos papa taught them it's wrong.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Mirth

[vont]

Parenting comes differently to everyone. Some people feel that you just have to love them, others say be stern. For me, giving in to the children is not love but spoiling and striking fear is not stern but strict. Am in the middle path, i give in after things are done, like finish your homework before any cartoons, pick up own things or dining table are for meals. Am more concern about the little small things now since they are still young. Greatest satisfaction are when they are told to do otherwise by someone else but they reply in negative cos papa taught them it's wrong.

pop

you are the man....!!!!!

[jaideeguy]

Thanks for the input....especially the positive. I didn't mention a couple of facts...that I'm 64 yrs old.........not an excuse,but a fact that I don't have the patience that a younger father would have and my relationship with my wife is not as good as it used to be [10yr itch?] and my attitude to this situation has been the same as my relationship to LOS.....to avoid conflict, I learned that the easiest way is to 'just surrender to the insanity'.

In other words, at my age, I just don't want or need conflict.

This situation with the junk food and computer is a reoccuring theme and I get strict and lay down the rules [being the enforcer] and they all go into a sulk and withdraw from me and gradually the old habits return to square one.

I am somewhat fearfull of the next year or so, as I will have to do some travel for work and know from experience that 'when the cat's away, the mice will play.

I'm surprised that others out there, 'married with wife's children' haven't contributed, as I have seen it with a few of my friends.

[jaideeguy]

Another theory that I have re: 'supermom' is that 10yrs ago, she came from a provencial lifestyle and all of a sudden, 'superfalang' came along and by me simply treating her and kids in a humane way and giving them things that us westerners take for granted, they became the the 'spoiled monsters' that they are now.

Making me think that WE CREATE THE MONSTERS, just by treating them with kindness and being able to afford things that her parents could never afford.

[sbk]

My brother in law is Thai, my sister in law is Thai. Both started out poor and ended up with money. (no not mine) Perhaps it is coming from a poorer background and wanting to give their kids everything they didn't have but if so, surely that would also apply to my brother in law who did attempt to enforce discipline and did not mimic his wife's behavior? If anything, brother in law grew up poorer than sister in law.

[Nawtier]

'WE' do not create the monsters........you may have, but in general we do not.

Those kids were of an age, 1 and 3, that meant you could very easily have raised them as your own and had the same experiences many do with their own kids. They would have been to young to realise any different and would have been acceptable to the normal teachings in any thai/foreign household.

It would be quite hard to just dump the kids....but if they show you no love and affection in return, then no loss to you to bugger off for a bit and see what happens.

Go away for 6 months and see if they miss you or not....if not, don't return.

[MikeyIdea]

Another theory that I have re: 'supermom' is that 10yrs ago, she came from a provencial lifestyle and all of a sudden, 'superfalang' came along and by me simply treating her and kids in a humane way and giving them things that us westerners take for granted, they became the the 'spoiled monsters' that they are now.

Making me think that WE CREATE THE MONSTERS, just by treating them with kindness and being able to afford things that her parents could never afford.

Too much money or too easy a life destroy respect faster than you can say 'jaideeguy'

Regarding your point about 'we create the monsters'; Yes, we certainly do help out and create the 'monsters' so to speak. Note: The kids are not the most difficult monster to change

[venturalaw]

Another theory that I have re: 'supermom' is that 10yrs ago, she came from a provencial lifestyle and all of a sudden, 'superfalang' came along and by me simply treating her and kids in a humane way and giving them things that us westerners take for granted, they became the the 'spoiled monsters' that they are now.

Making me think that WE CREATE THE MONSTERS, just by treating them with kindness and being able to afford things that her parents could never afford.

Too much money or too easy a life destroy respect faster than you can say 'jaideeguy'

Regarding your point about 'we create the monsters'; Yes, we certainly do help out and create the 'monsters' so to speak. Note: The kids are not the most difficult monster to change

Providing another with a lifestyle that is plentiful is not, in and of itself, the cause of the recipient demonstrating a lack of character (laziness, undermining, etc.). Someone from a poor background, raised with values, will continue to have said values even if they come to realize an escalated enriched lifestyle. Jaideeguy, based upon the information provided, is by no means the cause of the ignorance that he has been combating over the years. What is it that he has been trying to do that is negative; feed the children a balanced diet for whom he, fortunately for the mother, has taken responsibility, while striving to impart some values to this, his chosen family?

What if he had withheld the good fortune that he has by choosing not to share, and turned a blind eye to the children's nutrition? If that occurred, criticism would be warranted.

Edited June 16, 2011 by venturalaw

[MikeyIdea]

Another theory that I have re: 'supermom' is that 10yrs ago, she came from a provencial lifestyle and all of a sudden, 'superfalang' came along and by me simply treating her and kids in a humane way and giving them things that us westerners take for granted, they became the the 'spoiled monsters' that they are now.

Making me think that WE CREATE THE MONSTERS, just by treating them with kindness and being able to afford things that her parents could never afford.

Too much money or too easy a life destroy respect faster than you can say 'jaideeguy'

Regarding your point about 'we create the monsters'; Yes, we certainly do help out and create the 'monsters' so to speak. Note: The kids are not the most difficult monster to change

Providing another with a lifestyle that is plentiful is not, in and of itself, the cause of the recipient demonstrating a lack of character (laziness, undermining, etc.). Someone from a poor background, raised with values, will continue to have said values even if they come to realize an escalated enriched lifestyle. Jaideeguy, based upon the information provided, is by no means the cause of the ignorance that he has been combating over the years. What is it that he has been trying to do that is negative; feed the children a balanced diet for whom he, fortunately for the mother, has taken responsibility, while striving to impart some values to this, his chosen family?

What if he had withheld the good fortune that he has by choosing not to share, and turned a blind eye to the children's nutrition? If that occurred, criticism would be warranted.

Ventura, I don't agree with what I high-lighted in bold. Values often change as we travel the journey of life

[jaideeguy]

"Go away for 6 months and see if they miss you or not....if not, don't return.'

Actually, work may take me away for a few months comming up, but in the past when I was away for shorter periods, more damage was done, as the minimal dicipline that supermom imposes came to a stop while 'the enforcer' was away. That's just human nature, as I remember when my father was absent, dicipline went lax.

And that's another tricky situation.....to be firm, but not strict, as my father was a strict diciplinarian and it made me rebel........it's a fine line!!

I would cut and run, but I have made the fatal mistake of investing too much in realestate too loose and want to come out with my shirt on my back and standing on my feet, while setting her up on her own financially, to do it her way.

[venturalaw]

Another theory that I have re: 'supermom' is that 10yrs ago, she came from a provencial lifestyle and all of a sudden, 'superfalang' came along and by me simply treating her and kids in a humane way and giving them things that us westerners take for granted, they became the the 'spoiled monsters' that they are now.

Making me think that WE CREATE THE MONSTERS, just by treating them with kindness and being able to afford things that her parents could never afford.

Too much money or too easy a life destroy respect faster than you can say 'jaideeguy'

Regarding your point about 'we create the monsters'; Yes, we certainly do help out and create the 'monsters' so to speak. Note: The kids are not the most difficult monster to change

Providing another with a lifestyle that is plentiful is not, in and of itself, the cause of the recipient demonstrating a lack of character (laziness, undermining, etc.). Someone from a poor background, raised with values, will continue to have said values even if they come to realize an escalated enriched lifestyle. Jaideeguy, based upon the information provided, is by no means the cause of the ignorance that he has been combating over the years. What is it that he has been trying to do that is negative; feed the children a balanced diet for whom he, fortunately for the mother, has taken responsibility, while striving to impart some values to this, his chosen family?

What if he had withheld the good fortune that he has by choosing not to share, and turned a blind eye to the children's nutrition? If that occurred, criticism would be warranted.

Ventura, I don't agree with what I high-lighted in bold. Values often change as we travel the journey of life

Basic values of right and wrong do not change. Tastes change, true values do not.

Edited June 16, 2011 by venturalaw

[MikeyIdea]

Basic values of right and wrong do not change. Tastes change, true values do not.

I used the wrong word I think

My opinion is that true values develop as we travel the journey of life

[transam]

put your foot down.....grow a set....and go buy a pair of pants.

Super Mom my arse......

You are very wrong. Me, know real problem with kids BUT have seen the OP's dilemma time and time again here, and a farang CANNOT change the Thai way of thinking.

[aussiebebe]

"Go away for 6 months and see if they miss you or not....if not, don't return.'

Actually, work may take me away for a few months comming up, but in the past when I was away for shorter periods, more damage was done, as the minimal dicipline that supermom imposes came to a stop while 'the enforcer' was away. That's just human nature, as I remember when my father was absent, dicipline went lax.

And that's another tricky situation.....to be firm, but not strict, as my father was a strict diciplinarian and it made me rebel........it's a fine line!!

I would cut and run, but I have made the fatal mistake of investing too much in realestate too loose and want to come out with my shirt on my back and standing on my feet, while setting her up on her own financially, to do it her way.

I admire you jaideeguy, i think you're the superparent in this situation. Don't know have you do it, in Thailand kids stay with the grandparents so you've done really well.

[jaideeguy]

Another hard reality is that I have my doubts as to if my [spoiled new generation] Thai kids and even my Thai wife will 'be there' for me when I need them the most and I am approaching that time @ 64 yrs old.

[venturalaw]

Basic values of right and wrong do not change. Tastes change, true values do not.

I used the wrong word I think

My opinion is that true values develop as we travel the journey of life

I agree. What I'm talking about is knowing right from wrong. Supporting one's spouse, not going behind a partner's back. We all, hopefully, develop (mature) over time.

Edited June 16, 2011 by venturalaw