cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I went to Thailand for a sex change 22 months ago and still can't wear clothing that touches my groin, still can't sit, still can't bend over or cross my legs etc etc. In fact my symptoms are consistent with an embalmment of my groin with a tissue preservative on day 9 postop, one day after sending an introspective email to a friend back in the states on day 8 postop, one day after being discharged from the hospital. (a) Because a tissue preservative prevents any signs of necrosis or infection from the affected tissue, when does the clock start ticking for the one year statute of limitations for suing the doctor responsible? When the event occurred on day 9? Or when the victim was able to get a formal diagnosis by another doctor (because WITHOUT the diagnosis, the malpractice is just a theory)? (B ) Is it legal in Thailand for a doctor to "sabotage" a sex change surgery IF he HAS REASON TO BELIEVE (via sniffed wireless communications eg) the patient "tricked" him into doing the surgery, by lying on an eligibility questionnaire, despite otherwise satisfying the surgeon's requirements for the surgery (doctor required 6 mos of fulltime living in female gender role... patient had documented proof of 4+ years of fulltime living via US W2 tax forms, showing consistent employment and successful transition)? © If the patient comes to Thailand to sue the doctor, can the patient be held on charges of defamation of character if the doctor is found not guilty, AND the patient has already dispersed her story online? If so, what is the sentence for such defamation? The patient is a stealth transgendered woman who spent 8 years prior to her surgery shutting out her male life, including her unaccepting family who thought it was against their religion, including 8 years refraining from relationships and sexual encounters until her anatomy was correct, 4 years of which was spent tucking her undesired genitals and perfecting a female voice so she could pass at work. The transition was so long and hard, the patient became irritable at times, became without emotion in general, and became an outcast member within the online T community. As such, the afflicted patient is now "on her own", unable to get anyone to stand up for her, much less anyone in the medical or legal field. And much less from the trans community. When the patient asked for a formaldehyde exposure test in New York City, she was wisked away to a psych ward for a week, a week in a city she had never been to, knew no one, and had complained of pain on her connecting flight from Thailand to Vermont. Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand4life Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Just out of interest.. which doctor are we talking about? Dr Suporn? Feel free to PM me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalansanitwong Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I dont believe the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano2274 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 If the patient lied to get the treatment then the Doctor will use this against them in any court case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP25 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 You think your doctor intentionally sabotaged your operation, because you lied on your application which he discovered by monitoring your wireless communication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I highly doubt any lawsuit in any country would go anywhere if the defendant is accusing a doctor, who specializes in specific procedures, of purposely sabotaging the procedure. The doctor has nothing to gain but plenty to lose and this seems to defy logic ... especially when the doctor is being accused of gaining knowledge by monitoring the patients private electronic messages. And what does this say about your friend to continue to go through with an operation with a doctor who would monitor her electronic communications ... assuming she/he knew the doctor did this before the operation, which he would have had to in order to muck up the operation. If your friend didn't know before then I am guessing she also doesn't know now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonclark Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 You think your doctor intentionally sabotaged your operation, because you lied on your application which he discovered by monitoring your wireless communication? Cindy - forget it! Is there any solid evidence of these claims that the doctor sabotaged the op? Even if it was sueing a doctor in Thailand will take forever and at most you'd get a couple of thousand US? Seems like someone got an op on the cheap, it went wrong and he/she is pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKASA Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 "refraining from relationships and sexual encounters until her anatomy was correct"? Start by suing the one that made that mistake first and work forward from there. :jap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 You think your doctor intentionally sabotaged your operation, because you lied on your application which he discovered by monitoring your wireless communication? Cindy - forget it! Is there any solid evidence of these claims that the doctor sabotaged the op? Even if it was sueing a doctor in Thailand will take forever and at most you'd get a couple of thousand US? Seems like someone got an op on the cheap, it went wrong and he/she is pissed. No doubt. Would be better off coming back and getting whatever corrected. Be a heck of a lot cheaper and less time consuming then coming back here to sue a doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The OP asked about the statute of limitations. Does anybody know the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I'm sure the victim here can contact a lawyer to find out (for free) what options they may have. My guess is the statue of limitations varies (as it does it most places) depending on the type of lawsuit. A lawyer would have to advice if she should proceed as a malpractice suit or an assault or ???? When statues of limitations exist, they sometimes are not dependent on the date of the incident but rather the date you became aware of the damage or fact you've been wronged. All in all this would seem like the wrong place to get legal advice as opposed to just hearing thoughts from us posters. There is a good law firm that I believe is actually a sponsor here on ThaiVisa called Sunbelt (http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com) ... shoot them an email with the basics. If it is not something they handle, I'm sure they will refer you to somebody who can help or at least let you know if you have a case. I would definitely recommend seeking legal advice but in my humble opinion, you might find out that even if you have a slam dunk case, the payout would be very little. Consider that if 20,000 baht is not an uncommon settlement for a wrongful death ... how much can a sore crouch get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 'Seems like someone got an op on the cheap, it went wrong and he/she is pissed." Spot on ! Like any medical procedure(op) there are risks, you knew them before the procedure and unlucky for you it went wrong, move on and get it fixed and stop trying to apportion blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Is Cindy even the patient ????? The OP starts out speaking in the first person but then goes on to talk about the patient as if it is somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdietz Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 And this is exactly the reason western hospitals use a psych eval. FYI doctors here couldn't give a crap if you would have been qualified to take the op in the first place. You pay, they cut. Please go back on your meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 You think your doctor intentionally sabotaged your operation, because you lied on your application which he discovered by monitoring your wireless communication? Almost. That is how I believe the doctor sees the situation, regardless of whether I in fact lied on the application. There can be a "perception" of lying, which is really all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 You think your doctor intentionally sabotaged your operation, because you lied on your application which he discovered by monitoring your wireless communication? Almost. That is how I believe the doctor sees the situation, regardless of whether I in fact lied on the application. There can be a "perception" of lying, which is really all that matters. How do you think to prove this in court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 You think your doctor intentionally sabotaged your operation, because you lied on your application which he discovered by monitoring your wireless communication? Cindy - forget it! Is there any solid evidence of these claims that the doctor sabotaged the op? Even if it was sueing a doctor in Thailand will take forever and at most you'd get a couple of thousand US? Seems like someone got an op on the cheap, it went wrong and he/she is pissed. No doubt. Would be better off coming back and getting whatever corrected. Be a heck of a lot cheaper and less time consuming then coming back here to sue a doctor. The doctor would likely lose his license if the patient could prove that their surgery was sabotaged. The lawsuit is not about money but about showing what the doctor did. I have considerable evidence showing sabotage. If I can show sabotage via embalming oil then the doctor is going to have some problems. What I'm afraid of is, if the doctor were to be found not guilty of sabotage, I would be immediately charged with defamation, held in a Thai prison, and possibly the rest of my life such that I never get to talk to anybody again about what happened to my groin in Thailand? And hence everyone goes on as usual. I'm surely going to die if the toxicity - which I continue to feel in my groin, and which I continue to feel expanding and spreading out from my groin - is not treated, and the only treatment for an embalming fluid is surgical excision. Hence I could die if it reaches my internal organs like my kidneys. The risk of death from SRS is minimal, and in the cases that die, they die during the first few days after recovery, not 5 years down the road. What will the world think when I die at 50 years of age, and no prior kidney disease for me or my immediate or extended family members?? As for coming back to Thailand to get medical help (from a different SRS plastic surgeon, no doubt), would I still be at risk for charges for defamation of character? In fact, couldn't I be arrested as soon as I arrive at the airport? I definitely want medical help at this point, although I'm concerned whether to let a surgeon remove my groin and trust that he will run the necessary tests to show the toxicity, vs just throw the groin in the trash and pretend it was an infection, in order to protect his fellow doctor. I couldn't live with the idea that a doctor would eventually get away with this. If this is the risk of going to Thailand for SRS, then I surely wasn't made aware of it by anybody. There were risks about a doctor being unskilled, but not about a doctor losing it upstairs and deciding to become your worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 You think your doctor intentionally sabotaged your operation, because you lied on your application which he discovered by monitoring your wireless communication? Cindy - forget it! Is there any solid evidence of these claims that the doctor sabotaged the op? Even if it was sueing a doctor in Thailand will take forever and at most you'd get a couple of thousand US? Seems like someone got an op on the cheap, it went wrong and he/she is pissed. No doubt. Would be better off coming back and getting whatever corrected. Be a heck of a lot cheaper and less time consuming then coming back here to sue a doctor. The doctor would likely lose his license if the patient could prove that their surgery was sabotaged. The lawsuit is not about money but about showing what the doctor did. I have considerable evidence showing sabotage. If I can show sabotage via embalming oil then the doctor is going to have some problems. What I'm afraid of is, if the doctor were to be found not guilty of sabotage, I would be immediately charged with defamation, held in a Thai prison, and possibly the rest of my life such that I never get to talk to anybody again about what happened to my groin in Thailand? And hence everyone goes on as usual. I'm surely going to die if the toxicity - which I continue to feel in my groin, and which I continue to feel expanding and spreading out from my groin - is not treated, and the only treatment for an embalming fluid is surgical excision. Hence I could die if it reaches my internal organs like my kidneys. The risk of death from SRS is minimal, and in the cases that die, they die during the first few days after recovery, not 5 years down the road. What will the world think when I die at 50 years of age, and no prior kidney disease for me or my immediate or extended family members?? As for coming back to Thailand to get medical help (from a different SRS plastic surgeon, no doubt), would I still be at risk for charges for defamation of character? In fact, couldn't I be arrested as soon as I arrive at the airport? I definitely want medical help at this point, although I'm concerned whether to let a surgeon remove my groin and trust that he will run the necessary tests to show the toxicity, vs just throw the groin in the trash and pretend it was an infection, in order to protect his fellow doctor. I couldn't live with the idea that a doctor would eventually get away with this. If this is the risk of going to Thailand for SRS, then I surely wasn't made aware of it by anybody. There were risks about a doctor being unskilled, but not about a doctor losing it upstairs and deciding to become your worst enemy. I hate to say this because I don't know the facts or you BUT you sound paranoid. I take it you don't have medical insurance in the US? I know Vermont is very liberal in terms of providing free medical care to those unemployed. What you describe has nothing to do with surgery to perform a sex change that might not be covered. This is an issue of your health and the doctors would be under the same obligation to keep whatever female or male parts you currently have intact regardless of the sex change. In other words, a doctor would be obligated, even under government insurance, to correct whatever issue you are having that threatens your health while also maintaining your current sex. As for the libel or slander ... of course you can be arrested at the airport for anything regardless if you are guilty or not in any country but without more information from you, I would suspect it would be highly unlikely. As for trying to make the doctor lose their license.... hmmm... you would need some VERY VERY overwhelming evidence as he is Thai and you are not and the people who would decide such a thing are Thais and will likely not hold a heck of a lot of stock into what a farang, who came to Thailand for a sex change, has to say. Also, your story sounds a bit incredible in terms of his purposely trying to harm you. Not only does it make no sense but it is coming from somebody who has admitted to being locked up in a mental facility. Regardless if that lock up was justified, it still happened, and is not going to help your credibility. If you are determined to prevent others from experiencing a similar experience then simply post your story on all the relevant internet sites. I'm sure most people do internet searches before heading off to Thailand for this type of surgery. And if you don't have insurance and are worried about coming back to Thailand then don't ... go to India (i think its India) that is also well known for these surgeries but would highly advice not mentioning you believe the previous doctor purposely harmed you as I doubt any good doctor will want to risk having you as a patient. Sorry, but on face value, it just sounds absurd. Regardless of everything else ... I HIGHLY recommend you get to a doctor as soon as possible and stop diagnosing yourself. Also, I apologize if it seems I am saying you are not being truthful or have mental issues because I am not. I am simply stating how things appear given the little information you provided but understand it is is probably a long complicated story that is too much to get into here. Bottom line ... get yourself to a doctor and see what is going on with you so you can move forward and enjoy the new you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawtier Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 those hormones really mess with your head huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Cindy, Why do you believe that nobody will help or stand up for you including lawyers, doctors and people in the Tran's community as well as them locking you up in a psych ward for asking for a test and/or complaining on the plane? In other words, what is causing everyone to be against you? Edited June 16, 2011 by Nisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 'Seems like someone got an op on the cheap, it went wrong and he/she is pissed." Spot on ! Like any medical procedure(op) there are risks, you knew them before the procedure and unlucky for you it went wrong, move on and get it fixed and stop trying to apportion blame. I'm not trying to "apportion blame" per se, but trying to get some restitution for what I have been made to go through. If I can't get monetary restitution, then perhaps I can at least get a guilty verdict and leave Thailand knowing I've affected the doctor's conscience. After all, I will not have much of a life to look forward to even if I survive this. Hence I do not have any motivation to just "move on". As for acceptable risks, sabotage is not acceptable risk. And proving sabotage is not far from proving toxic exposure, which I have considerable evidence for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawtier Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Maybe you have just been eating to much of that formaldahyde treated chicken ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Cindy, Why do you believe that nobody will help or stand up for you including lawyers, doctors and people in the Tran's community as well as them locking you up in a psych ward for asking for a test and/or complaining on the plane? In other words, what is causing everyone to be against you? Not everyone is against me. The medical industry has become aware of my case and the potential malpractice suit coming out of it, and worse, the exposure to the corruption that protects its members, allowing them to "look the other way". A formaldehyde case is unprecedented. There is a great deal of fear from the eyes of doctors I meet who say they aren't going to order the tests because they wouldn't know what to do with the results. The legal industry is corrupt in the sense that they don't want to help a transgendered person who they feel a jury won't rule for, not to mention they just don't want to help a transgendered person, period. I'm talking the GLBT attorneys even. They don't want to get involved trying to protect the rights of a transgendered person who they feel just might turn out to be someone who "snuck in", or "tried to sneak in". I couldn't even pay for a medical expert, not because I didn't have the money, but because the lawyers didn't want my money. There is one exception but that is currently in the making, and it involves what is called a private forensics lab. If I can get the tests, and the tests show something, then I believe a particular lawyer would get involved. Half of the lawyers out there work for the health insurance companies. And they'll try and get as much information from you as they can before telling you so. Yes, I believe I have a case here in the US for failure to diagnose a toxic exposure and hence failure to treat. But I am still interested in pursuing options in Thailand, if I can get there and out safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawtier Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 But I am still interested in pursuing options in Thailand, if I can get there and out safely. If I can't get monetary restitution, then perhaps I can at least get a guilty verdict and leave Thailand knowing I've affected the doctor's conscience. Which one is it....are you here or there....Don't know if you are .Arthur or Martha hey?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunbelt Asia Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 If the case against the doctor (or defendant in the suit) is dismissed for lack of evidence or if the Plaintiff loses the case, the doctor could countersue for defamation, Wrongful Act from the Plaintiff or other grounds. The Judge may or may not award the full amount of the suit. [sunbelt][/sunbelt] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Cindy, Why do you believe that nobody will help or stand up for you including lawyers, doctors and people in the Tran's community as well as them locking you up in a psych ward for asking for a test and/or complaining on the plane? In other words, what is causing everyone to be against you? The hospital in NYC likely put me in a psych ward to scare me enough to get me to leave NYC and not look back. And they succeeded. Why? Because they didn't want to get stuck treating something, which if diagnosed correctly, would implicate doctors I had seen previously who failed to treat me. And because they knew they could get away with it because there was no necrosis or infection, and hence no visible signs, just the patients subjective statements of chronic pain, churning sensations, toxic sensations, etc, etc. You can't really come up with a more controversial case coming into a busy ER of a hospital either. No doctor outside of the few that dedicate their lives to doing SRS invisions ever getting within a few miles of a transgender's sex change operation. Someone walks in that has symptoms pointing to a formaldehyde exposure to the groin, and well, you get the picture. What's interesting is nobody is answering my questions here. Possibly because they don't want to believe the preface of my question. (a) If a patient was shown in court to mislead a SRS surgeon, AND the patient could show that there was sabotage, would the surgeon be let off the hook because the patient snuck in? ( If the doctor is found not guilty (of medical malpractice), then could the patient find herself in a Thai prison on charges for defamation of character, before she even had a chance to leave Thailand? Or even after she left Thailand (I suppose there are extradition laws that exist between the US and Thailand)? As for going back to Thailand for help, I did contact Bumrungrad hospital, and after several go arounds with a certain admin, they essentially said they could not help me and gave no specific reason other than, "for the same reason that the US doctors will not help you". When I contacted the Thai Medical Council about my claims, and an offer to fly there on my own dime and have them run tests to check out my story, they didn't respond. Perhaps the email got lost in cyberspace. If that kinda stuff happens I've never seen it happen before. At least it always seems to happen at some convenient time for the recipient of that email. Perhaps the Thai Medical Council knows what it would find. Surely it's no coincidence that they tightened the eligibility requirements for SRS within a few months after my visit. Not because they feared another person like me coming along, but because they needed to send the message that (a) should it be proven that a Thai doctor "got it wrong" with some late night postop psychoanalysis, ( future SRS patients should have no worry because all SRS surgeons in Thailand must now require letters, hence negating the need for postop psychoanalysis, and therefore removing any possibility of a sabotaged surgery. I did get to talk to some other (albeit "non-SRS") doctors during my second visit to Thailand, and most were quite polite and attentive to my concerns. But whether they would diagnose and treat a condition that would quite possibly implicate their fellow countryman is another question. Something tells me that I should stay here in the US or go to another country for help, concentrating on being alive and free to tell my story, vs serving a long sentence in a Thai prison. Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 If the patient lied to get the treatment then the Doctor will use this against them in any court case. Thank you for responding to my questions! You are one of the few, if not the only one, who has offered to answer my questions!! Note: If the doctor wished to use this against me in court, I believe he won't use it until AFTER I will have proven that he did in fact sabotage my surgery. Unless he wants to get rid of the quilt and offers it up. Either way, I would be very happy to have that acknowledgement. That piece of mind of knowing that it indeed happened to me. Perhaps he will call one day and tell me what he did, just so he doesn't have a murder charge on his hands should I die without treatment. Surely he is happy with me losing my groin and living the remainder of my life being disfigured. I mean, that's why you sabotage, not just to kill the surgery, but to kill the transition right in its tracks, preventing the person from living a female life EVER. Regardless of what they tell you, SRS is a defining moment in ones transition. It is the one surgery that, if done right, can enable a passing transgender woman to experience what genetic women experience. It's the surgery that enables a transgendered woman to "feel right" using the women's restroom, "feel right" wearing tight jeans or skirts at work, "feel right" that their anatomy matches their mind and no one will ever see them as a man again. But if you don't pass prior to SRS, either your looks or voice or both, well then SRS may not do much for you. For no matter how good your vagina may pass in bed, you still have to convince somebody to get in that bed to find out. Such is the real world I've come to acknowledge at this juncture in my young life. Best Regards, Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 If the patient lied to get the treatment then the Doctor will use this against them in any court case. (d) Is it legal in Thailand for a sex change doctor to sniff a patient's communications for the purpose of postop psychoanalysis? Or, Is it legal for anyone in Thailand to sniff another person's private communications without telling them beforehand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy36 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 If the case against the doctor (or defendant in the suit) is dismissed for lack of evidence or if the Plaintiff loses the case, the doctor could countersue for defamation, Wrongful Act from the Plaintiff or other grounds. The Judge may or may not award the full amount of the suit. [sunbelt][/sunbelt] Okay, so the worst is that the person would owe money to the doctor if the doctor won the countersuit... the person wouldn't be sent to a Thai prison, right? Or would the person be imprisoned until such time that they could pay the doctor the awarded amount? I would assume that the person would not be able to leave Thailand until after the doctor had been paid, right? Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bino Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Something tells me that I should stay here in the US or go to another country for help, concentrating on being alive and free to tell my story, vs serving a long sentence in a Thai prison. There it is - answered your own question. Another poster indicated that you're intensely paranoid, and I gotta agree. My suggestion: grow a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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